Talk:Missouri Executive Order 44

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Mormon Extermination Order which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 20:33, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 8 November 2023

Missouri Executive Order 44 → Mormon Extermination Order – I believe the title "Mormon Extermination Order" better fulfills the criteria outlined in Wikipedia:Article titles.

1. Recognizability and Naturalness: The use of the term "Mormon Extermination Order" extends beyond academic circles and has permeated popular culture, literature, and media. Moving would make it easier for readers to find and access the article, since it is a more intuitive and recognizable term
2. Precision: "Mormon Extermination Order" accurately describes the content and significance of the historical event. The order called for the expulsion, or extermination, of Mormons in Missouri.
3. Concision: The title "Missouri Executive Order 44" does not clearly distinguish the article from other executive orders issued in Missouri, none of which are notable enough for an article. "Mormon Extermination Order" specifically identifies the historical setting the event took place in. Gottagitgud (talk) 21:47, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Gottagitgud (talk) 00:23, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

@Gottagitgud: As explained in my closing comment, you should file a new WP:RM. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:48, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

• Keep article at title "Missouri Executive Order 44". Setting aside that a previous consensus resulted in the move to Missouri Executive Order 44...,
  1. Missouri Executive Order 44 was the official title of the legislation
  2. A previous revision of this page noted, "relatively few people were killed as a direct result of its issuance". Calling it an extermination order when there wasn't a mass extermination is misleading. pbp 19:08, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

  Furthermore, let me state that some of the rationale by Gottagitgud is in error. He cites "precision"...but there was no mass extermination of Mormons carried out. Calling it an extermination order suggests a genocide that...well, just didn't happen. As for "concision", if other executive orders issued in Missouri are not notable enough for an article, then they shouldn't have any bearing on the title of this one pbp 19:14, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

  When the militia captured Far West, they issued a warning that violence could escalate if the Mormons did not surrender. However, the Mormons chose to surrender immediately and organized their own voluntary withdrawal from the state. As a result, there was little need for violence to enforce the order. The Mormons complied with the order, rather than confronting the military.

  The designation of 'extermination order' stems from the original wording used by Governor Boggs. Yes, the language is strong and alarming. But 'extermination' does not necessarily imply mass killing. The word 'extermination' comes from the Latin term extermino, meaning to expel or exile. The order did result in the forced relocation of around 15,000 people from the state. Gottagitgud (talk) 20:54, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

• Weak support per WP:POVNAME. We have Boston Massacre and Great Leap Forward and Alexander the Great because those are the common names used to refer to those topics, despite those not being very neutral or accurate names. I suspect practically no one refers to this topic colloquially as "Missouri Executive Order 44". And the fact that there was no mass slaughter does not mean there wasn't an order. The noun here is 'order', not 'extermination', and the plain text of the order says the Mormons "must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace", so calling it an extermination order is not much of a stretch. The RM in 2010 was about the title being vague, not about it being NPOV. At the time, it had the completely vague title of Extermination order, which doesn't indicate what the topic is. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:06, 9 November 2023 (UTC)