Talk:Pinyin

i pronounced as r??

The following in the overview section is unclear: "(When Chinese speakers call out these letters, they read them as: ji, qi, xi, zi, ci, si, zhi, chi, shi, and ri. The i in the last four sounds more like r and the use of i is purely a matter of convention.)" Does this mean that e.g. ri is pronounced "rr"? How does one pronounce that? And what does this have to do with the proceeding sentence stating that English speakers cannot produce the sounds represented by these letters??140.180.254.183 (talk) 15:36, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

I have removed it, as it was not really relevant to this article. It was not necessarily wrong, but there is more to it than that. You could look at e.g. Syllabic consonant#Mandarin and syllabic fricative for a fuller discussion of that particular sound. How Chinese is pronounced is covered in that and other articles, it does not need repeating in this article, which is on the Romanisation system.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 16:29, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

I will give my opinion: you are right, if that were read by a beginner in Mandarin Chinese, it could be confusing. So I am going to rewrite it as I understand it, and add more details. "When Chinese speakers pronounce these syllables, they do this as ji, qi, xi, zi, ci, si, zhi, chi, shi, and ri. There are two explanations for the last four syllables. First: the i in them is more like an r(this r is pronounced as ɚ). Second: they are syllabic consonants. The use of i is purely a matter of convention."

So that is it. I hope it is clearer, both explanations are valid. FanNihongo (talk) 03:49, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

s not as in English?

§ Overview says

Native speakers of English will decode pinyin spellings to fairly close approximations of Mandarin except in the case of certain speech sounds that are not ordinarily produced by most native speakers of English: ... s [s] ... exhibiting the greatest discrepancies.

Not according to the table in § Pronunciation of initials:

Pinyin	IPA	English approximation	Explanation
s	[s]	say	as in sun

--Thnidu (talk) 03:28, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a bunch of BS..whoever wrote it either a, doesn't know very much about native English speech, b, has never HEARD your average native English speaker try to pronounce Chinese words written in pinyin (e.g., we would be inclined to pronounce Q as K, X as ks or z, &c), or both Firejuggler86 (talk) 09:39, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

For what its worth, though, I think that table is likely completely wrong...I think s in pinyin is NOT accurately represented by the s as in say Firejuggler86 (talk) 09:41, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Middle dot

The "middle dot" being used to indicate the neutral tone requires a citation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4C4E:2480:D100:B9FB:7A1A:80EC:2655 (talk) 19:10, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

... which is provided in footnote 35: "Section 7.3 of the current standard GB/T 16159-2012." Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 19:35, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Any chance of getting an article that wasn't written by the CCP?

I jest, but only slightly. It's pretty clear that the article was written by someone or someones with a very biased perception of this system. Examples include the constant use of unsourced fluff and the complete lack of any actual criticism of the system that isn't immediately (and poorly) hand-waived away. It's written like propaganda rather than as a useful educational tool. 68.60.202.174 (talk) 04:43, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Pinyin table missing many finals

The main image for the article, File:Table_of_Hanyu_Pinyin_Syllables.png, lists only 24 finals, and is lacking many finals such as "uo". GreekApple123 (talk) 02:59, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Writing Workshop

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 September 2023 and 15 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): HaEvNa, Aikeeee, Wwwe123321 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Wwwe123321 (talk) 21:01, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Tones

I'm trying to make the tones in pinyin more clear by mentioning the neutral tone in pinyin. Also, I provide a brief interpretation of how to pronounce the tones.

The pinyin system also uses diacritics to mark the four tones of Mandarin (or it could be five tones when considering the neutral tone).  In the pinyinn system, four main tones of Mandarin are shown by diacritics: ā (tone 1: high-level), á (tone 2: rising), ǎ (tone 3: low-falling-rising), and the last one à (tone 4: high-falling).  And there is no symbol or diacritic for the neutral tone. The diacritic is placed over the letter that represents the syllable nucleus, unless that letter is missing (see below). Tones are used in Hanyu Pinyin symbols, and they don't appear in Chinese characters.

Tones are written on the finals of Chinese pinyin. If the tone mark is written over an i, the tittle above the i is omitted, as in yī.

I have the citation for the part I revised, but it wasn't shown here. One citation is used for the addition of the neutral tone, while the other one is the way of pronouncing tones. If there is any grammar mistake, please point it out, and I'll do my best to revise it. HaEvNa (talk) 03:01, 29 November 2023 (UTC)