Talk:Pelé

Shouldn't we delete that line quoted "Regarded as one of the greatest players of all time and labelled "the greatest" by FIFA," in Pelé????

Pele was regarded as GOAT by Fifa. The link taken to the fifa website was deleted. Don't you think he didn't regard as GOAT anymore by Fifa? I think it will be biased for footballers to call them Goat by Fifa. Understanding this, they may deleted that post completely. Thus. Though they deleted from their site, in web archive it will remain forever.

So, shouldn't we delete that line quoted "Regarded as one of the greatest players of all time and labelled "the greatest" by FIFA," in Pelé???? HridoyKundu (talk) 10:03, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

the article is originally from 2012 and doesnt exist anymore, so it does indeed seem like fifa doesnt consider him the greatest anymore. should be removed imo --FMSky (talk) 10:08, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Just because FIFA made some changes to their website, doesn't mean the line should be removed. He is still regarded as the greatest, which you can see on the citation right next to it. TotallyJimmyFallon (talk) 00:32, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

that article just says "greatest player of the 20th century" --FMSky (talk) 00:36, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Huh, it does. Sorry. I still think the quote should kept, even if it got link rot'd. TotallyJimmyFallon (talk) 00:53, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I agree that line should be kept in the article. The FIFA titled article "Pele, Greatest of them All" still exists, just takes a while to open. Also, the fact that FIFA President Infantino recently called Pele the greatest player of all time adds further weight as to why the article should be kept in. Koppite1 (talk) 22:05, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

That is actually only an archive of the page, the original link is dead --FMSky (talk) 23:46, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

So what are we gonna do about this sentence? --FMSky (talk) 20:53, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Unless there is overwhelming consensus to the contrary, leave the comment in. Just because the initial link is broken, doesn't mean we can pretend FIFA never said it. The fact is, they did say it. And an additional link as been provided. Koppite1 (talk) 17:24, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

which additional link is that? i still only see the original archived one --FMSky (talk) 21:12, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Request for comment

Should the text say "labelled the greatest" or "labelled the greatest player of the 20th century"? The discussion above brought no consensus. --FMSky (talk) 21:09, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

• As the cited source ([1]) states Pele, who was once named by FIFA as the greatest player of the 20th century., the article should reflect the "20th century" wording. Omitting that means the article is making a bigger claim than the source does, and that is of course unacceptable. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 02:30, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
• The statement should be specific to football and state…Pele was labelled as the greatest football player of the 20th century... There are other sports and athletes who have excelled in them. To state, Pele was better than them or his contributions to sports in general was greater than these other excellent sports persons, does not seem to be correct.- Mnair69 (talk) 02:59, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

  I agree with Mnair69. Seems self-evident to me that inclusion of "football" is the context for the FIFA citation. Qflib, aka KeeYou Flib (talk) 14:23, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

• The FIFA bit reads clunky and doesn't really add much. I would go with something like this:

Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century.

There's plenty of sources characterizing him as one of the greatest players. This summery is easier to read. - Nemov (talk) 00:07, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Agree with this. Ortizesp (talk) 02:49, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

I'd suggest

"Widely regarded as one of the greatest football players of all time, he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century." Qflib, aka KeeYou Flib (talk) 15:56, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Praise from FIFA is lede worthy, so my suggestion would be : "Regarded as one of the greatest players of all time and labelled "the greatest" by FIFA Chief Infantino, he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century. " 80.249.61.73 (talk) 14:54, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

• it's a no brainer. Pele WAS regarded the greatest by FIFA but not anymore. The text should be removed. Outdated content and sources shouldn't have place on here, especially considering after that article was published, several newer players have evolved into contenders for the goat status. In fact, since Messi came into the picture, many reputable publications and organizations recognize him as the goat and not Pele. It's disingenuous to point at that 2012 (now-nonexistent) article and say FIFA still holds that stance. Ae245 (talk) 03:42, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

  "Pele WAS regarded the greatest by FIFA but not anymore"

  How do you know? FIFA have not published any statement to say they do or don't. All we know is that 2 FIFA Presidents have recently rated him the GOAT. Also there are reputable sources and organizations that recognise Pele as GOAT over Messi. HOWEVER, i'm fine with "Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century" if that has the greatest consensus. However, FIFA called him the greatest in 2012 as per Morbidthoughts suggestion below is a better compromise, in my view. Koppite1 (talk) 16:43, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

  By revoking the publication of that article, FIFA acknowledged they no longer regarded Pele the greatest. Otherwise, there's no other plausible reason for them to do that. Ae245 (talk) 03:21, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

  yes agree, that's indeed what it seems like --FMSky (talk) 09:43, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

  A bit hasty to automatically jump to that conclusion simply because FIFA archived a document. They could have done that for a variety of reasons, such as not wanting to come across as biased in anyway. People archive documents for many different reasons. Can't just blindly jump to single assumptions . All we know is that FIFA issued that statement in 2012 and those who have represented FIFA at the highest level since 2012 (the various Presidents) have recently rated Pele as GOAT....so that doesn't really tally up with this notion that FIFA have done a complete 180 degree change of view. We simply don't know. Anyway, i think Morbidthoughs suggestion would have been a far better compromise. I don't see why we have to hide the fact that FIFA labelled Pele the greatest in 2012. No other palyer has ever been labelled Greatest by FIFA. Koppite1 (talk) 17:03, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

  Not wanting to come off biased is another good reason to no longer acknowledge Pele as the greatest. I'm pretty sure, at least by Wikipedia standards, removing an web page from public view is a valid form of retraction. Currently I see that the archive page by Archive.org is the only piece of evidence proving FIFA ever made that claim, and as Wikipedia requires 'exceptional sources for exceptional claims', I'm not sure how it would be appropriate to place that statement anywhere in this article, much less the lead, citing just that source. Ae245 (talk) 03:34, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm surprised that anyone thinks that archive.org is unreliable to confirm what FIFA once published; even for the "exceptional" claim of what FIFA wrote in 2012. But if you want a secondary reliable source that confirms what FIFA once wrote in 2012.[2] Morbidthoughts (talk) 10:13, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

• There are dissimilar listings over who is #1, (e.g. Mardona as #1 here, Messi as #1 here, and Pele as #1 here), so I think Nemov's wording best to show that.

Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century.

Cheers Markbassett (talk) 06:21, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century. per Nemov and Markbassett. This appears to be very widely sourceable and not hyperbolic - and readable. Pincrete (talk) 06:19, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

I’m good with that. It would be okay to include the FIFA accolade as a citation to that as well, I think. Qflib, aka KeeYou Flib (talk) 19:53, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

• I'm also for Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century. per above --FMSky (talk) 05:13, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
• I'm fine with acknowledging that FIFA called him the greatest in 2012. They did. Morbidthoughts (talk) 08:49, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

• FMSky, I don't think this RfC needs a formal close. There seems to be a consensus to include the quote:

Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century.

Unless there's a strong objection that should resolve this topic. Thanks! - Nemov (talk) 14:50, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Sir Edson Arantes do Nascimento

You guys should put the correct title over there. 82.28.226.167 (talk) 20:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

He only has an honorary knighthood, which means he cannot receive the style "Sir". – PeeJay 23:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)