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Help Wikipedia

Who is the highest person in charge of Wikipedia that has an account?

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Frittle (talk) 20:20, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Frittle. No one is "in charge" of anything on Wikipedia. It is a collaborative, volunteer run project. User: Jimbo Wales is a founder and the most famous Wikipedian, but it has been many years since he has bossed anyone around. Cullen328 (talk) 20:30, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

This edit was made by Christina Koch while in earth orbit. Maproom (talk) 20:40, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

But wouldn't that make her the lowest person? FunLater (talk) 21:19, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation, so in a sense their CEO Maryana Iskander is "the highest person in charge of Wikipedia". She has a staff account, MIskander-WMF, though it has only made 8 edits to the English Wikipedia. Several members of the WMF board are from the broader community and are therefore much more active editors: I think Rosie Stephenson-Goodknight (Rosiestep) is the most active on the English Wikipedia. But while the WMF has overall responsibility for Wikipedia because they run the servers, they don't have any involvement with the day-to-day running of the encyclopedia: as Cullen says, the project is collaborative and volunteer-run. On a day-to-day basis, highly-active administrators probably have the most social capital and ability to make consequential decisions. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 12:11, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Suitability of the topic 'history of tidal power' as a new article

Hi, I'm considering creating an article to cover the history of tidal power development. There have been many companies that have developed and tested turbines. Individually, a lot of these would be questionable in terms of notability. However, I think the topic as a whole is notable.

The pages Tidal power, Tidal stream generator, and List of tidal power stations have some of this information, but there is a lot more detail that could be added which would possibly make these pages unwieldy, and I'm not sure exactly fits there anyway. Many of the devices that have been tested are no longer generating power, but I think it would be useful to document these in one place.

My proposal would be to have a short introduction, a section on companies with a paragraph or 2 on each (or a link to their page where notable), and a section with a table with details the turbines that have been tested (what, where, when, etc).

I'd appreciate some feedback on this before starting, hence this post. Thanks :) Drnoble (talk) 11:25, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

A number of reliable sources deal with the subject "history of tidal power" so it would seem to be a notable subject. Seems like a worthwhile direction to head in. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:30, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, will start to develop a draft & some notes offline then make a new page Drnoble (talk) 09:14, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

What tool/app to use to create maps?

Hi. I want to update some outdated railway maps. What tools or application can I use? Are there ready tools for that? Thanks. Aredoros87 (talk) 21:22, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Railway diagrams are created with {{Routemap}}, with the maps themselves created on seperate template pages (for example, the diagram at Rewanui Branch is located at Template:Rewanui Branch) and embedded in infoboxes. Actual maps are linked to OpenStreetMap via the {{Maplink}} template. Cheers, Mach61 (talk) 15:41, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Aredoros87 (talk) 17:47, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Stereotypes of African Americans (edited)

This isn't for me, but may be needed for the newer editor who created it. It looks to have been copied from somewhere else? I'm not sure if it should be deleted or merged or if it could be salvageable, but maybe someone could work with this editor to see what they were trying to accomplish? BOZ (talk) 22:09, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I've moved it to Draft:Stereotypes of African Americans. It seems to be an unattributed copy of Stereotypes of African Americans, so it's unclear what's going on. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:17, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

@Abukun, Brianda (Wiki Ed), and Helaine (Wiki Ed): may be able to throw some more light on the issue, since they'd leading the course which has resulted in this thing - https://dashboard.wikiedu.org/courses/St._Mary's_College_of_Maryland/Seeing_Race_(Fall_2023) --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:21, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

In particular, @Abukun:, you have peer reviewed this unattributed copy ay User talk:Tonydavis05 and found it generally good? That seems ... surprising? Please explain. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:24, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Abukun has since updated their peer review, but it would be helpful if they could respond to the copyvio concerns here as well. JoelleJay (talk) 19:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

It's very unfortunate. @Abukun, Brianda (Wiki Ed), and Helaine (Wiki Ed):, I have marked the draft as a copyright violation of Stereotypes of African Americans; possibly it will be deleted now. I'm sorry that none of the leaders of this course have chosen to communicate with us here nor to address the concerns arising from unattributed copying and the odd situation of developing as a draft an article already in mainspace. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:36, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

I feel I should note that WP:G12 speedy deletion has now been declined twice, including once by me, as the draft is not eligible for G12 speedy deletion, and the correct procedure is instead to repair insufficient attribution. The page is also ineligible for WP:A10 or for WP:G6 as explained by WP:NOTCSD point 16. If the draft ceases to be actively worked on then it should be redirected as a Template:R from Draft, but otherwise users are permitted to copy material to userspace or draftspace while actively working on a major overhaul/rewrite of an existing page. If only one person works on the draft then it suffices for them to copy the rewrite directly onto the existing page once finished, as no attribution issues will occur, and redirect the page. If more than one person is responsible for the rewrite then there will be some need for additional care for attribution, either with a histmerge if easily feasible, or with Template:Copied if not. WP:STALEDRAFT point 5 also makes this point. However, even if this is not immediately done upon copying back the rewrite, attribution can still be repaired later as the redirect from draftspace will have attribution information in its history so not getting it right on the first try is an easily fixable problem. 2601:5CC:8300:A7F0:105:1578:26D:6233 (talk) 03:19, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Clear that User:Tonydavis05 copied Stereotypes of African Americans into own Sandbox without attribution of the source, added content, renamed it Stereotypes of African Americans (edited), and from there it ended up as Draft:Stereotypes of African Americans per action by User:Tagishsimon, who afterward properly identified it as an unattributed copy. The cleanest action I can recommend at this point is that the draft either be Speedy deleted by an Administrator or else tagged by Tonydavis05 for deletion. If Tonydavis05 believes there is properly referenced content that was added to the original article, that should be copied - quickly - to his Sandbox, to be added to the existing article. David notMD (talk) 02:59, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

I concur — the student copied the material into his sandbox in order to edit it. He should have only copied portions at a time. He then added some unattributed material that duplicated information in parts of the original article. While I wish he had taken the assignment seriously, he did not, so you were right to nominate the work for deletion. Sorry for any lack of communication on my part, but I assure you, I have been working with the student offline to explain why his work was unacceptable. Abukun (talk) 17:15, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

télécharger une photo pour illustrer ma page dans bibliographie

j'ai téléchargé une photo portrait personnel mais refuser pour des questions de droits d'auteur? Alors que c'est une photo portrait de mon PC? comment faire? merci Superka2711 (talk) 22:20, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Bonsoir Superka2711. Cette page-ci apartient ni à Wikipedia français ni à Wikimedia Commons, mais à Wikipedia anglais. Ce serais peut-être mieux de demander vers fr-wiki ou vers Commons.

Vous avez téléchargé C:File:Hervé Baudu Ensm.jpg. Je ne vois pas où on y a élévé de problème de droits. Mais est-ce que c'est vous qui a pris ce photo? ColinFine (talk) 23:39, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Superka2711, welcome to a help page for English-language Wikipedia. You're asking about a matter for "Wikimedia Commons". You've asked about H_Baudu_wiki.jpg at commons:Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#H_Baudu_wiki.jpg. That was the right place to ask. Just wait there for a response. (But one little point for your draft: It's not "http(s):\\" but instead "http(s)://".) -- Hoary (talk) 23:47, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I will answer in French on the French Wikipedia. Yann (talk) 11:37, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

New draft awaiting revision

Hello, I tried to post a wikipedia page over a year ago, which was rejected for failing to provide links. Recently I put a lot of citations up on a new draft and am hoping that someone will be able to check it out and let me know if the listing can be posted? It's about the author, artist, and botanist William A Emboden. There are already a ton of articles on wiki linking to him and I'm hoping to get one made for him - ashe deserves to be listed here for all the writing and research he did - especially on botanics that are still being used and influenced many things being used to date. I understand it can take awhile to create a new profile, but I think I added enough citations for it to get posted. He wrote numerous articles I am still in the process of citing, but I have over 20 sources already. I hope someone can help. Thank you. JasonReBegin (talk) 01:26, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Articles for academics in general have to pass one of two standards: WP:GNG or WP:NACADEMIC, and specifically Wikipedia:Notability (academics)#Criteria. It is not clear to me that User:JasonReBegin/sandbox meets either, but you are welcome to disagree and to point to the references that support GNG, or to the NACADEMIC criteria you believe he met. Citing multiple papers &c is not enough on its own. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:13, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

thank you - as this is my first creation of a wiki from scratch, I am simply not very good and will continue to research how to make improvements. JasonReBegin (talk) 17:33, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Here's a tip, JasonReBegin. Your draft starts by saying that your man "was a world-renowned ethnobotanist, writer, editor, professor, lecturer, artist, and poet". Few people are world-renowned poets; extraordinarily few are world-renowned editors or lecturers. I simply do not believe this statement, and I don't suppose that other reviewers will either. True, it doesn't have to be referenced: it's in the lead, and leads can (and probably should) summarize what follows. In the body of the draft we learn that yes, he edited and lectured, but there's no evidence that he was world-renowned at either. Indeed, there's not even commentary on his editing or lecturing. And neither "poet" nor "poem" appears. So the lead comes off as puffery, rather asking for the draft to be declined. Remove anything that might look as if it's aggrandizing your subject. -- Hoary (talk) 02:44, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

@JasonReBegin: I have moved your sandbox to Draft:William Emboden and restored the deleted history from your previous draft, which appears in the contribution history but not the current revision. ~Anachronist (talk) 08:01, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

JasonReBegin, I agree with the comments above by Tagishsimon and Hoary. I also notice that your reference list generates 17 error messages. Please fix those. The list of publications is excessive. Trim that list way back to only those that have been widely cited in the scientific literature. Cullen328 (talk) 08:17, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

.... and in the bibliography of his works, please don't use external links but instead use {{cite book}} with the relevant ISBN. There is no need to have a separate footnote for these, as you are merely listing them. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:53, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks - I was copying over a list of publications from a copy of a bio I had and as this was my first piece I figured someone would simply delete what didn't work - and it seems that is the case. In appreciation JasonReBegin (talk) 17:35, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you - i fixed that puffery JasonReBegin (talk) 17:33, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

i did a contrbution and u undone it im asking why

i did a contrbution and u undone it im asking why https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slim_Shady_(disambiguation) 186.153.48.190 (talk) 03:24, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

You added a long textual insert, almost certainly a copyright violation, into a disambiguation page. Please learn a little about wikipedia before making your next edit. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:41, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

See WP: Copyright to learn about copyright policy. Cwater1 (talk) 03:13, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) 'cause that's not what a disambiguation page is for. It's to help readers find the article they're looking for and distinguish similarly named ones. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 03:44, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Is this disambiguation page needed. It only tells the reader about one person: Eminem. So really there is no confusion possible. BlueWren0123 (talk) 04:00, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

There are three (four if you count the section link) articles that have "Slim Shady" in the title, so yes, I'd think it is necessary. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:02, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

The data backs Tenryuu up. To be clear, the base pagename Slim Shady redirects to Eminem, but in October 2023, a nonzero number of people clicked to the disambiguation page [dab] from Eminem, and a nonzero number of them went from the dab to a different Slim Shady page (Real, EP, or LP). Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:26, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Should I change the URL?

I wrote an article in the past and the URL of a reference has changed. The old URL is a dead-link, but the reference is still online, just under a new URL. An archive link to the wayback machine is already included in the article. Would it be a good idea for me to update the reference URL, or is that unnecessary? —Lights and freedom (talk ~ contribs) 06:39, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi Lights and freedom, Welcome to the Teahouse. You can completely remove the old reference/url with the archive link, and then cite the new url. Jeraxmoira (talk) 07:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Make sure you update the |access-date= parameter also, as that helps future maintenance. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:44, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Paywalled sources

I'm working on an article that was reviewed and needs further revisions based on the sources available. Can sources be deemed inadequate if they are paywalled? And are paywalled sources still considered when evaluating an article? ESGenthusiast (talk) 12:30, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

It's perfectly allowed to use paywalled sources, and often the best sources are difficult to access, either because they are paywalled or because they are only available in print. WP:PUBLISHED and WP:RSC are relevant here. That said, if important sources are hard to access then you might have to wait longer to find a reviewer. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 12:40, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

@ESGenthusiast See also WP:PAYWALLED. Many long-term editors (and reviewers) are members of The Wikipedia Library and hence have access to such sources. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:42, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi ESGenthusiast, I agree. On Wikipedia, also, we have Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request (or WP:RX for short) specifically to request another editor to send you material that you don't have access to. So using paywalled or offline sources is very much a part of the proccess. Good luck, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 05:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Images for Go! Puzzle

I'm not sure if this fits within Teahouse, but I thought even if it's not someone could point me in a direction of where best to get an answer.

I did a major overhaul of the Go! Puzzle article last night, and was wondering the best way to go about adding some images to illustrate the three games. It's a 2007 PS3/PSP game which I managed to emulate and take screenshots of - however, I think there are a limited number of screenshots available for the game online.

Is there any way under fair use that I can upload images of this game, and if so, what license can I use for that? EphemeralPerpetuals (talk) 14:59, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

A stroll through Category:FA-Class video game articles suggests that 1-3 gameplay screenshots in an article is the norm. Original images are allowed. Please review the Non-free content criteria before uploading. Mach61 (talk) 15:10, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

@EphemeralPerpetuals: As Mach61 says, you can look at other game or puzzle articles and see how it's done. Generally you use a low-resolution image, state that it's fair use, and is to be used only for that one article and nothing else. See Chickapig for example, which I created. Also, you don't upload the image to Wikimedia Commons as is usually done, but upload it to Wikipedia. Commons can't be used for non-free images. ~Anachronist (talk) 15:24, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

That's really useful - thank you both! EphemeralPerpetuals (talk) 15:26, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

About Wikipedia

is Wikipedia like IMDb OneLastTruth (talk) 15:55, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi, OneLastTruth, welcome to the Teahouse! I'm not sure exactly what you're asking about; in what respect? This is a forum for getting help with editing Wikipedia, so we'd need more information on what you mean and what aspect of Wikipedia editing you're talking about. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 15:59, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an on-line encyclopedia, IMDb is a movie database, so there is not much similarity, except that both are user-generated. We have articles about Wikipedia and the IMDb where you can find out more. Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:22, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is user-generated, but does not accept IMDb as a valid reference because it is user-generated. In addition, Wikipedia does not accept Wikipedia articles as references because those are user-generated. Go figure. David notMD (talk) 17:09, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

OneLastTruth IMDB is time-consuming, however once the information has been added, it's very hard to get it removed, unless it's incorrect and you can prove it's incorrect, or you're me (a Top 100 Contributor) of course. It's also very unlikely that it will be changed by someone else in future. Adding information like credits rarely needs evidence, however you always need evidence to correct a title/name, or add things like birth/death details, two of which I've added this week for a guy in his 20s and a guy in his 30s, both of which have died in the last few years.

Wikipedia is even more time-consuming, as you need to prove everything you add, and have edit every reference. If you add things to a popular article, it will no doubt be checked by someone in less than a day, and will removed if it's false information. Popular articles are constantly changing. It also has people who like to remove referenced information, and use explanations like "the article is too big" to justify their needless removals, plus it has people who get involved in articles they know nothing about, so end up changing them for the worse not the better.

That is why I prefer IMDB over Wikipedia.

In the last week or two I've; Merged 100s of duplicate profiles (as usual); updated countless profiles with things like external links/birth details/death details/birth names/nicknames etc; Created a few posters from title-screen images for shorts which don't have posters, which I've then added; Added a 2023 computer game; Added a 2002 feature length history documentary; Added a 2015 feature length history documentary which has 3 different versions for different countries (although I've still got most of the credits to add); Added the credits to an online music web-series which I added a couple of weeks ago; Added countless missing credits to short films from 2003, 2008, 2012, 2013 etc; Added/Corrected most of the credits on a 2022 comedy feature film; Added/Corrected most of the credits on a 2021 horror feature film; Added/Corrected most of the credits on a 2014 horror/thriller feature film; And that's just the stuff I can remember. Danstarr69 (talk) 14:10, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

what are the numbers on the wikipedia data structure table for

i noticed numbers on the left and right sides of the table to the right. what are these numbers for?
are they internal ids?

long namespace table

Wikipedia data structure Namespaces Subject namespaces Talk namespaces 0 (Main/Article) Talk 1 2 User User talk 3 4 Wikipedia Wikipedia talk 5 6 File File talk 7 8 MediaWiki MediaWiki talk 9 10 Template Template talk 11 12 Help Help talk 13 14 Category Category talk 15 100 Portal Portal talk 101 118 Draft Draft talk 119 126 MOS MOS talk 127 710 TimedText TimedText talk 711 828 Module Module talk 829 Former namespaces 108 Book Book talk 109 442 Course Course talk 443 444 Institution Institution talk 445 446 Education Program Education Program talk 447 2300 Gadget Gadget talk 2301 2302 Gadget definition Gadget definition talk 2303 2600 Topic 2601 Virtual namespaces -1 Special -2 Media Current list

Natelabs (talk) 16:41, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Natelabs! Yes, these are the internal namespace IDs. They're quite useful when writing code for things like user scripts, especially ones that are used across different WMF projects, since different namespaces can have different titles in different projects, but they'll always have the same ID. For example, namespace 4 here on the English Wikipedia is "Wikipedia:", but on the Chinese Wikipedia it's called "维基百科:", Meta-wiki it's called "Meta:", and on Wikimedia Commons it's called "Commons:", but no matter what, it's still namespace 4. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 16:48, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Unauthorized follow-up Q:How do bespoke virtual namespaces like meatball:, citizendium: and google: work? Mach61 (talk) 17:08, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

@Mach61: Technically, those are not virtual namespaces; virtual namespaces are things like "Special:" (namespace ID -1, if you're curious). What you have are interwiki links; as the name suggests, they're usually used to link to other wikis within the WMF project, but they are not actually limited to WMF projects, or even to wikis in general. There are any number of them, all listed at meta:Interwiki Map. HTH, Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 17:34, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

How to use multistream?

At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Database_download#How_to_use_multistream? there is a question that could be typed about there, or here, or both places.

It is about using a multistream database dump of Wikipedia.

I do not know how to

"Cut a small part out of the archive with dd using the byte offset as found in the index." than "You could then either bzip2 decompress it or use bzip2recover, and search the first file for the article ID. "

Is there any video or more information on Wikipedia about how to do this, so I can look at Wikipedia pages, or at least the text off-line?

Thank you for your time. Other Cody (talk) 18:58, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

detailed cite questions

I wanted to cite "The Encyclopedia of Mammals" so found another article that cited it to see how it's done, but that raised some questions. Then checked WorldCat to gather more data. Here's the info I have, followed by my questions. my book = my copy of the mentioned book; Mammal = Mammal article (book mentioned in Further Reading but I assume the format should be the same as cited); WorldCat = info from that cite.

my book has:  edited by David Macdonald, assistant editor Sasha Norris

Mammal has:  MacDonald DW, Norris S

WorldCat has:  authors:  David W. Macdonald, Sasha Norris

my book has: this edition published in 2006, copyright 2001, 1st published 2001, reprinted 2002, 2006

Mammal has:  2006, 3rd edition

WorldCat has:  2006, copyright 2001

My book has just the 1st name while others have 1st & 2nd initials or 1st name & 2nd initial. (I know capitalization is wrong in Mammal article.) That's correct info but that's not what is on the book. How should I list the name? My book lists them as editors, others list them as authors. Does this matter? How can I list as editor/assistant editor while using the Cite form.

It looks like the help files say if a book is reprinted (without major changed), I should use the original publication date. If so, looks like the Mammal article is wrong. But do I list the reprinted date anyplace?

As an added complication, this book was also published as a new edition in 2006, but looking at the ISBN, the Mammal article is using the same edition as my book. Sunandshade (talk) 21:03, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

@Sunandshade: Welcome to the Teahouse! Per WP:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT, use the information in your copy of the mentioned book if that's what you used for your Wikipedia edits. Online resources may be incorrect, or different editions may have slightly different credits. You can use {{cite encyclopedia}} for references. GoingBatty (talk) 21:36, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

GoingBatty Sunandshade "Online resources may be incorrect" just like with articles/pages/websites on films and TV shows.

I have found countless films and TV shows which have had incorrect release dates by a year or two, in most places online, as most places get their production information from IMDB, if they don't have a Wikipedia article.

However I've also found occasional films and TV shows, which have been incorrect by 3, 4, 5+ years too.

I recently stumbled one which was listed on IMDB as being released in 2001 as a film.

However it was actually a 2 episode TV series which was released in the year 2000, so I've corrected. Danstarr69 (talk) 13:36, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Editorial versus authorial contribution to books certainly can be an important distinction to make, for example when the book is a volume of chapters by different authors. If it's something like an encyclopaedia, usually the editors are responsible for most of the entries as well, and sometimes the entries aren't even individually credited, so calling the editors "authors" is ok.

Worldcat is often sloppy about this distinction, as is google books. (An added complication for google books is that if a Wikipedia citation to a google books source has been generated by a script instead of manually entered, it will always misattribute authorship to the editor(s), even if the google books page itself has correct attribution.)

As to the first name versus initials thing, it sounds like the Mammal article is using Vancouver style referencing, which omits every part of a person's first and middle names except for the initial letters, which it includes smooshed together without any punctuation. It's very common in some scientific fields. You can achieve this affect by setting the |veditors= parameter to |veditors=Macdonald DW, Norris S. If you cite their full names like |editor1=David W. MacDonald|editor2=Sasha Norris, it's altogether possible another editor will change the citation style to Vancouver in order to comply with WP:CITEVAR, so it's not something to worry about too much.

For the publication date bit, you can use |date=2006|orig-date=2001. Reprints from the same publisher usually retain the same pagination.

Online resources may be incorrect is an important bit of wisdom to keep in mind. At some point, any database was populated by a human, or by an algorithm. Both commit errors. Folly Mox (talk) 12:41, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Copy and pasted from another website

This section is almost exclusively a copy and paste from a website called EarlyChristian Writings.com.

In this instance, it is best to confirm the sources (linked here), or just the website? Or would you suggest basic reformatting the wall of text?

Thanks! Doctor165 (talk) 21:26, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

@Doctor165: Welcome to the Teahouse! I suggest rewriting and summarizing what the website says, and then adding a reference for the web page. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 21:38, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Accidentally created an image file on Wikipedia

Earlier I cropped a pre-existing image for use on an article.

However, I looked in my contributions page and found that I accidentally created said image file on wikipedia rather than wikimedia commons.

I tried clicking the export to WC link but it said it couldn't do it. I'm not sure what I should do, can anybody help.

Earle Bartibus Huxley (talk) 21:55, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

@Earle Bartibus Huxley: You can just add {{G7}} to the image page (you may want to ensure you have a copy first). It will get deleted, then try again. I note that File:Passport photo of Beatrice Gubbins.jpg is not tagged under a free licence, nor is the cropped image, and Commons only accepts free images, so I wonder if you've thought about that. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 22:09, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I've just added it.

I didn't upload the original image file (it was uploaded years before I made my account), I only made the cropped version. I didn't know the copyright notice existed on both images until just before I created this topic thread. Should I nominate the first image for deletion? Earle Bartibus Huxley (talk) 22:58, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

So that's been deleted, and I've put back the old image for now (otherwise it would have been deleted as unused fair use). The first image is uploaded locally as fair use. I don't claim to have looked into whether that's the correct licence - I mean it's quite old isn't it. While it's fair use it can only be hosted locally. You could replace it with the cropped photo, locally, but that might not be ideal, since it contains her signature and other context. There can only be one image hosted locally under fair use. If you discover it's public domain then both could be hosted on commons, otherwise neither can be. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 01:07, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Oh I see. Thanks for the info. Earle Bartibus Huxley (talk) 11:22, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Search description

When conducting a search for an article, the description beneath the title in the search box may not accurately reflect the content of the article. How can this discrepancy be rectified? Sajjad Altaf (talk) 22:03, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Could you please provide an example of this discrepancy? You may be speaking about short descriptions. Remsense留 22:08, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

I think you are to the point, I see the template on top of the page. I need to just look harder. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 23:42, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

If you need any help, please let us know! Remsense留 23:43, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikimedia Funding

Is there a reason for the phrasing in the Wikimedia fundraising message they plaster at the top of the page? Every year it seems more and more manipulative in intent - is there any evidence of them actually struggling, or is it just an odd marketing ploy? It seems especially odd when compared to other sources like AO3, who openly show their numbers when fundraising and always exceed their goal amount by the thousands. 134.41.166.19 (talk) 22:45, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Almost nobody editing Wikipedia has any involvement in, or insight into, why and how Wikimedia posts and words these messages: many of us wish that they wouldn't.

The only motivation I can think of is that perhaps, if Wikimedia doesn't display reasonable efforts to raise donations from individual users (as many other sites routinely do), its major corporate donors might reduce their donations. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.215.44 (talk) 22:53, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Do Any Teahouse Folks Speak/Write Colloaquial Filipino

I am attempting to port the article Gaddang people to the tl.Wikipedia (Tagalog-language version). I am not strong speaker of the national version (Filipino), as I am likely to use Gaddang or Ilokano (or even Bahasa Indonesia) vocabulary. There are also issues to be resolved with links to articles in the much-smaller Tagalog site; as well as some features which are different.

I have brought in a couple of Tagalog speakers who have experience editing and writing for print media, but could use an introduction to somebody who has both the language and Wikipedia experience. Ethnic laundry (talk) 23:37, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Try WT:PINOY, @Ethnic laundry. Usedtobecool ☎️ 03:22, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Ethnic laundry You could also look within the categories of user langauge skills. For example Category:User tl-4 and Category:User tl-5 and seek help from a few recently-active ones via their Talk Pages. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:59, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

How do I register my Wikipedia account?

I've had an account for a couple of weeks, and I'm concerned on how to register, as I can't edit certain articles. If you have an answer, please tell me and thank you. Oo-rah! the marines are here (talk) 01:37, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Oo-rah! the marines are here: There's no need to register any more than you already have – you do have an account. Some pages are protected from editing for a variety of reasons, but you can still contribute! If you see a page that you would like to edit but that is protected (this will be shown by a lock icon at the top right of the article), you can submit an edit request detailing exactly what you would like changed (ideally describing exactly where you would like the change to be and exactly what the changed text should read instead) so that someone can make the edit on your behalf. You might want to use the edit request wizard to help with this. After making more edits (10 for most, then 500 for essentially all the rest) you will automatically be given the ability to edit protected articles. Tollens (talk) 01:43, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Then how come I am still blocked from editing an article that only registered users can edit? Oo-rah! the marines are here (talk) 04:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Nevermind, I found the answer. Oo-rah! the marines are here (talk) 04:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

(EC) Explained at Wikipedia:Why create an account?, once you have had an account for 4 days and made 10 edits, you can edit semi-protected pages (gray lock), create new articles, rename pages and upload files. Once you have had an account for 30 days, and have made at least 500 edits, you can edit extended protected pages (blue lock). Right now you have made 2 edits. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:45, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Oo-rah! the marines are here (talk) 04:22, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Oo-rah! the marines are here: The table at Wikipedia:Protection policy#Comparison table might be a helpful summary for you. GoingBatty (talk) 04:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

My account has 10 edits and is 4 days old, but I still can't edit gray lock pages. Oo-rah! the marines are here (talk) 03:05, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Oo-rah! the marines are here: It appears your account is indeed autoconfirmed. Maybe try again. Tollens (talk) 03:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

i was trying to change the picture but wikipedia is not allowing me to

can anyone explain me why? what all should i do inorder to get accepted by wikipedia? Jokkutta (talk) 02:11, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jokkutta: - you need to be autoconfirmed, with at least 10 edits and an account at least 4 days old. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:15, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Some more details could be helpful for a more detailed answer. Another thing is that Wikipedia is very careful about copyright. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:11, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jokkutta: I take this is about John P. Varkey? You triggered an automated warning that prevents new editors from uploading small resolution JPG images (c:Special:AbuseLog/10292045). You should be able to upload the image using c:Commons:Upload Wizard. I will echo what Gråbergs Gråa Sång above says about copyright: you have claimed that the image your own work. That means you must have held the camera personally in your hands when you took the picture. MKFI (talk) 13:54, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Links to redirects

Hullo peoples. There have been a few articles I have edited where I have swapped out links to redirects with the pages that the redirects redirect to (for example Circle Graph) and I was wondering if this was correct behavior or if I was doing something wrong. Thanccs! 🧐 Antrotherkus (Talk to me!) 02:51, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Antrotherkus: Welcome to the Teahouse! If it changes the visible look of the article, then it's fine. If it doesn't, then it's WP:NOTBROKEN and doesn't need to be changed. GoingBatty (talk) 03:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

kthx 👍 Antrotherkus (Talk to me!) 03:02, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Submitted Article - "I'm a sinner. He is my guarantor"

Draft:"I'm a sinner. He is my guarantor" - a Bangladeshi folk song Mozammalhoquetipu (talk) 07:07, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The draft now appears to have been reviewed. Tollens (talk) 10:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

FYI

 – Merging to section above. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:42, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

My article on "I'm a sinner. He is my guarantor" song has been declined. If I could get help from an expert on how to improve my article and specifically in which are to improve, I would be grateful.

As per my knowledge, I have used reliable secondary sources and the subject deserves a Wikipedia article.

Also I like to know, if I myself being the traslator can not write an article. Is it strictly prohibited ?

Looking forward to the help Mozammalhoquetipu (talk) 12:07, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Mozammalhoquetipu Your Talk Page already has a message about your conflict of interest. You are still allowed to create a draft and use the articles for creation process, as you have been doing. The main issue in this case is not your COI but the fact that the draft does not demonstrate that the song is wikinotable. To do that, you need three or so reliable sources that are completely independent of anyone associated with it and discuss it at some length. See this summary. The song cannot inherit its notability from the "legendary" film in which it was originally used. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:44, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Dear Responder

I am thankful for your above detailed advice.

I have begun to enjoy the wikipedia article writing.

As per your above kind advice, I am trying to improve the article.

Sincerely

Mozammal Hoque Tipu

Literary Translator of music Mozammalhoquetipu (talk) 11:03, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Dear Experts

I want to know how to edit the headline of a draft. I can edit the body of my article. But when I want to edit the draft head line, I don't find any option to do that.

Can anybody help me how to do that ?

Sincerely

Mozammal Hoque Tipu Mozammalhoquetipu (talk) 11:49, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Mozammalhoquetipu If by "headline" you mean the title, then this can be fixed if your draft is accepted. By Wikipedia's manual of style, song titles would be italicised and this one doesn't need the extra information about its being from Bangladesh. I suggest you don't worry about this: your draft is very far from being acceptable in its current state as it fails to demonstrate that the song is notable enough to have an article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:15, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull: Just going to point out here that song titles shouldn't be italicised, but enclosed in quotation marks. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:52, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Nominating for AfD vs Speedy Deletion

I've added a few articles to AfD discussions, and a lot of them have later been speedy deleted per G11. Where is the line between something non-promotional enough to necessitate AfD discussion, and something promotional enough to immediately require G11 without any thought on improvement or rewriting?

AriTheHorse^{talk to me!}

13:05, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

I would look at the page creator's contribution history. If they made small number of edits and the promotional article is their only contribution to Wikipedia, I would just boldly tag it under WP:G11 and if, for some reason, this speedy deletion is declined, then the article could be added to AfD discussions. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 15:05, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@AriTheHorse: (ping - I am not sure you got the notification when I posted here my answer). Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 15:10, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Pacific war article declined

Hi everyone I was wondering if an experienced editor could assist me.

I have written a section on the attitudes that the Japanese and the Americans had towards one another on the Pacific War page as this was missing from the article however I have had feedback suggesting it is too essay like. After the initial feeback of this I redrafted my work and resubmitted to present a more neutral work summarizing what historians have said about the issue however it has been declined again for the same reason? I am not sure how to make the section less 'essay like' as I personally don't think it reads like an essay at all. Please can someone point me in the right direction and help me see where I have gone wrong as the feedback is very vague. Thank you Goldenl03 (talk) 13:15, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Goldenl03, it seems from your edit history that you have never edited Pacific War, though you did once edit its talk page.. What edits are you referring to? Maproom (talk) 14:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

He is refering to Draft:U.S Attitudes towards the Japanese, @Maproom NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 15:07, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes sorry I am referring to my draft I sent for review Draft:U.S Attitudes towards the Japanese

Goldenl03 (talk) 16:17, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Goldenl03 I edited it slightly for format. Given your title, consider adding sections for after WWII. Yes, this would be a radically different article, and perhaps outside your interest in the topic. David notMD (talk) 17:18, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Skimming the draft, I don't see any significant difference between it and Anti-Japanese sentiment in the United States or Japan–United States relations. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:16, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Twisting history

A corporation is twisting their history to hide a scandalous fact that occurred 50 years ago. I and others were irrevocable harmed by this event that changed the course of not only their local business but 2 internationally known and recognized businesses, as well as being a current topic relating to women's history. I and several other living people are the only ones who can get this, as it must be, into the historical record.

How do we do this best on Wikipedia. Ty in advance.

NMR - NanetteGrigsby (talk) 13:33, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello. We cannot accept your personal account of an event, because it cannot be independently verified. Wikipedia articles summarize what independent reliable sources say about a topic- something published thst can be verified. 331dot (talk) 13:59, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi @NanetteGrigsby, welcome to the Teahouse. The best way to do this on Wikipedia is to ignore Wikipedia for now. You need to go get your story published by a reliable source - a reputable news organization, for instance, or perhaps a respected advocacy group. Then you can come back to Wikipedia, with that source in hand. I'd recommend making an edit request on the article's talk page rather than attempting to add such information yourself, even when you have your source. 57.140.16.1 (talk) 14:15, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Nanette, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm afraid that your edits to WCIT (AM) broke two core policies of Wikipedia: verifiability and neutral point of view. They were therefore properly reverted by an experienced Wikipedia editor: your suggestion that this was the company whitewashing is inappropriate without strong evidence.

Advocacy is not permitted on Wikipedia, no matter how virtuous the cause. See WP:RIGHTINGGREATWRONGS.

If you can find reliably published sources for what you claim happened, then a neutral summary of what those sources say may be added to the article: given your strong emotional involvement, it would be best if you did not edit it yourself, but raised an edit request on the talk page. But without reliable sources (which do not have to be online), nothing can be added. ColinFine (talk) 14:16, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

FOR THE CURIOUS: This is about the article WCIT (AM). User:NanetteGrigsby added information about a purported crime - rape resulting in a pregnancy, alcohol involved - of a teenage beauty contest winner in 1971, by a DJ of the radio station responsible for transporting her to events. For this to be incorporated into the article about the radio station there needs to be reliable source publications about the rape, perhaps in newspapers of that era, AND that the radio station was involved in covering up the crime to protect itself and its employee, also later described in publication(s). David notMD (talk) 17:39, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Request for Assistance in Updating a Page on Tuberculosis Prevention

Dear Wikipedia Community,

I'm reaching out for assistance in updating a page related to international effort to stop the spread of tuberculosis. I believe it's crucial to have the most current and accurate information on such critical topics. This would ensure that our public encyclopedia remains a reliable resource. I am eager to contribute in several languages and ensure that our readers have access to the latest data and findings in this field. Could someone guide me on how to proceed with these updates effectively?

Thank you for your support.

G GeGki (talk) 16:22, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi @GeGki, welcome to the Teahouse. First of all: do you have a personal or professional connection to Stop TB Partnership? If so, you need to read WP:COI, and also WP:PAID if you're being compensated in any way for your work with them.

Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources.. If you have such sources, those are what you should be using to update the article.

Keep in mind that this is an encyclopedia which covers the whole history of its subjects - just because something happened in the past does not mean it's now irrelevant, or that the information is out of date and should be removed/updated. If something is wrong or very poorly sourced, it should certainly be corrected, but otherwise the idea is to build upon what's already there. 57.140.16.1 (talk) 16:39, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@GeGki welcome to Wikipedia! Someone else posted good advice on your use talk page User talk:GeGki and I would recommend you check out a WP:TUTORIAL to learn more about Wikipedia. In addition, medical topics have extra standards which you can read about at WP:MEDRS. Happy constructive editing! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 16:41, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

As already covered above, you added large amounts of unreferenced content to Stop TB Partnership. You also deleted existing, referenced content. The former can only be restored if you can provide valid references - independent of what the organization publishes about itself - verifying the information. What you know to be true carries no weight. In addition, you added hyperlinks in the text. This is forbidden. You are free to try again, one subsection at a time rather than all at one go, with references. David notMD (talk) 17:47, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Update on Coyote vs. ACME

I just got an update regarding the bidding race for "Coyote vs. ACME":

On December 7 and 8, it was announced that Netflix reportedly offered less than half of the film's budget cost and was turned down, and Paramount had made a bid with a theatrical release plan for 2024. Amazon remains interested, and Sony and Apple have still not made any bids.

According to the film's budget, someone needs to make a bid that is higher than the film's original budget: 70 million dollars

Netflix could have a second chance if they can offer a better deal than $70M.

The goal of the bidding race is to go higher than 70 million dollars.

Here are my sources: https://puck.news/newsletter_content/what-im-hearing-shari-ellison-redbird-paramount-2/

https://deadline.com/2023/12/coyote-vs-acme-paramount-amazon-contenders-1235658240/

And that's should be it. Can anyone add it in there? DukeyDukeyToo (talk) 18:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

No. WP does not do running commentaries on commercial affairs. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:12, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

File copyright template

Hullo peoples. Apologies for asking questions two days in a row, but I feel like I need help with this, because it's about the copyright of an image I want to upload. This image is a miniature California flag from this website, and I want to add it so that I can use it for a top icon on my user page. The license for this image (along with all other flag images on the website) is under the "Creative Commons Attribution-Non-Commercial-Share Alike 2.0 UK: England & Wales License". I'm using the Commons Upload Wizard for this, and under the "Enter a different license in wikitext format" section, I supposedly have to add a template for the license, but I'm not sure where I would find such a template. I was hoping that someone here would be able to procure such a UK copyright license template. That's all. Thanks! Antrotherkus (Talk to me!) 19:40, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

You cannot upload such a file to use on your userpage. It is not freely licenced. Files that are not freely licenced are only allowed to be added to mainspace articles. NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 19:51, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

ok 😕 Antrotherkus (Talk to me!) 19:56, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Antrotherkus. Will none of the flags in Commons:Category:Flags of California work for you? They are all freely usable. ColinFine (talk) 20:30, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Oh whoops, didn't check there. Silly me. Thanks for pointing that out! Antrotherkus (Talk to me!) 20:54, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Antrotherkus. You might try one of the userboxes on this page, or figure out the file used for the small flag in them: {{User interest California}}. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 20:37, 19 December 2023 (UTC) (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.)

mass redirecting

is there any way to make redirects in bulk? cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 19:48, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Create new pages? --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:46, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

yeah, that seems like it would work

i'd just need a bunch of text files, but that's easier than what i was doing before

thanks cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 20:56, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cogsan: generally, mass-creating pages in articlespace is a BAD idea. See WP:MASSCREATE. Cremastra (talk) 20:50, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

from a quick read of that section, i can assume one of 2 things

1. i fucked up because i made 82 redirects
2. i didn't fuck up because i wasn't using a bot or script, and have a minor spelling mistake to prove it

cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 21:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The redirects you made look fine, but, yeah, it's best not to use an automated process for those. If your odds of messing up when you do something manually are 1 in 100, then your odds of messing up that thing when you use a bot or script are probably going to be more like 1 in 10. Cremastra (talk) 21:02, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

in that case, it's probably a good thing i won't get into another situation where it would be a good idea to make over 20 redirects in quick succession for a while

if something like this does happen again though, i'll either see if i can learn how to use a script for it and then try to get approval, or just do it manually at a somewhat slow pace

thanks cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 21:38, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Watermark

I'm looking at an image (aerial photograph) recently added to Charlemont High School, Jamaica, which has a watermark with the photographer's business name on it. I can see the file should be tagged with {{Watermark}}, but the file has no edit option for me. What am I missing - do I tag it on Commons instead? Thanks. Tacyarg (talk) 20:29, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

If there is an edit to be made, yes, it would be on commons. As it is, this file and another by the same uploader look like copyvios and have been marked with 'permission required' banners on commons ... I've removed them from the article for this reason & because the aerial photo & caption was tending towards an advert. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:45, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello Tacyarg. I consider it highly likely that image is a copyright violation. It has already been removed from the article and nominated for deletion on Commons. KKDT, are you the person who actually took that aerial photo? Cullen328 (talk) 20:49, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The School administration is aware of the photo. The Person who took the drone photo he is a past student of the school. I am apart of the Team that manages Social media. why was the Logo Removed....... They know about this! This is factual Information not False.... and the school Administration Know about. everything that is going on. Why is there a problem? KKDT (talk) 21:19, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@KKDT One problem is that Wikipedia is not social media and you are required by its terms of use to disclose your WP:PAID status if you are making any edits related to your employer. That link describes how to do so. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:35, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@KKDT: commons:File:CHARLEMONT HIGH SCHOOL LOGO.png and commons:File:CHARLEMONT_HIGH_SCHOOL_Kreative_Kaptures_Aerial_JAN_2023.jpg each have a template that explains that the file is missing evidence of the permission you're stating exists, along with instructions on how to provide the evidence. GoingBatty (talk) 21:40, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@KKDT: You're also using the improper syntax for the images in the infobox, and reverted my fix without using an edit summary. GoingBatty (talk) 21:51, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

can you tell me whats the correct way? KKDT (talk) 21:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

It was correct as GoingBatty did it, so the simplest thing to do now is to self-revert your last edit (with a suitable edit summary). Before doing that, please place the paid editor template on your userpage. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:01, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Please understand that wikipedia DOES NOT like to be used to advertise photographers, as your watermark and your caption did. Since you have control of the image, I suggest you upload a new image without a watermark, and desist from adding photographer credits to the caption. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:02, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

ok will do that! Im the one who did it... ill revert that KKDT (talk) 22:04, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@KKDT: Template:Infobox school shows the correct way to use the parameters and provides an example. GoingBatty (talk) GoingBatty (talk) 22:04, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The visual Editor is easier to use tho... the Bracket Bracket throws off everything for me but ill Look into it thanks for the info.. Im making changes to the water mark right now KKDT (talk) 22:20, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@KKDT: You can use the VisualEditor to edit the infobox. Click edit and then click the infobox. You'll see the Image parameter has the instructions "Image file name with no wikimarkup". Remove the wikimarkup and click "Apply changes". GoingBatty (talk) 22:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

KKDT, please do not claim a logo that you did not design and a photo that you did not take as your "Own work". Cullen328 (talk) 22:29, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Tea

Just boba, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 05:31, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Do you have moochi ball tea? 2600:1702:39D0:19E0:4491:CDD:F548:C9C7 (talk) 21:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Apparently not but you could try the ice cream. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

No, but we have some good earl grey, I think. Cremastra (talk) 23:01, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

No, but do you like green tea? Or some doughnuts? Babysharkboss2 was here!! (Talking Heads) (DANTE) 23:39, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Ha-ha, very funny. TypoEater (talk) 15:12, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Help - Page Removal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

How is it even possible for anyone to arbitrarily remove someone else's page without discussion? Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 21:50, 19 December 2023 Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 21:55, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

There are all sorts of circumstances where this is a valid thing to do. We would need more details. What page? What content? --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:59, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The page is gone but the title was: Prime Numbers - The Equations That Define The Prime Number Sequence.

It is a page dedicated to the historical mathematical proof currently in the Canadian Library and Library and Archives Canada (2014). Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 22:08, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Seems to have been a copyright violation - Creating Prime Numbers - The Equations That Define The Prime Number Sequence - "Unambiguous copyright infringement of https://www.amazon.com/Solutions-Primes-Equations-Defining-Sequence-ebook/dp/B09JKNQH7Z?asin=B09JKNQH7Z&revisionId=dafc2904&format=1&depth=1 (cf. also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKXeDmFwX3s))" --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:14, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

How would be unambiguous. It is a page dedicated to the historical mathematical proof currently in the Canadian Library and Library and Archives Canada (2014). Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 22:16, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The publication and reference was the first thing noted on the page.

Thank you for helping. I am very new to this and want it to be as professional and respectful to all requirements. Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 22:17, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Can you point to a permissively licenced or public domain source? If not, the presumption is that the source pointed to in the deletion message is copyrighted, and the unambiguous part of the whole thing would presumably be a word for word match between the WP page and the source. In short, you cannot lift copyrighted text from elsewhere and add it to wikipedia. Providing a reference does not make it okay. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:20, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

I am the author of the publication: Prime Numbers - The Equations That Define the Prime Number Sequence that is cited and is in the Canadian Library and Library and Archives Canada (2014). Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 22:23, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

That makes things... tricky. First off, you'll have to prove that you are actually the copyright holder. (I'm not saying I don't believe you, it's just that we need to be very careful. Otherwise, we could potentially have any number of people waltzing in and violating copyright because they claim they're the copyright holders...) Cremastra (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

And it also raises WP:COI issues, such as is the page a notable topic per WP:N, is the page an advert for your for-profit book, &c. It is very far from ideal for you to be creating the page, very far indeed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:30, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Well, yes. I was starting out with the copyright problems, and figured we'd get to COI, N, V, NPOV, and all the other acronyms later. Cremastra (talk) 22:32, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

When presented to one of Canada's premiere and noted Number Theory mathematicians at The University of Waterloo, he placed his head in his hands and said, "Do you have any idea what this means!?"

That has been the typical response around the world. Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 22:40, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Don't forget socking, Prime Numbers - The Equations That Define The Prime Number Sequence was extensively edited by 4ELprimephi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Star Mississippi 22:55, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. It is the first time in mathematical history that the equations defining the Prime Number Sequence were discovered and proven. Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 22:38, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Collapse too much information. You need to trust us on this: we know when to collapse things.

This is not an advertisement, just an answer to the inquiry: The Solution to the Primes - The Equations Defining the Prime Number Sequence. James P. Moore. Moore, J. P. (James Patrick), 1965-, author The Solution To The Primes / James P. Moore Includes bibliographic references. ISBN 978-0-9688950-5-4 (pbk.) 1.     Numbers, Prime   QA246.M65 2014      512.7’23      C2014-900497-4 My website: www.jamespmoore.com Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 22:43, 19 December 2023 (UTC) The Solution to the Primes - The Equations Defining the Prime Number Sequence. James P. Moore. Moore, J. P. (James Patrick), 1965-, author The Solution To The Primes / James P. Moore Includes bibliographic references. ISBN 978-0-9688950-5-4 (pbk.) 1.     Numbers, Prime   QA246.M65 2014      512.7’23      C2014-900497-4 My website: www.jamespmoore.com

I can tell you every step that I took to discover the equations, where I wrote the proof, every university around the world that is was sent to and that it has been in the public domain for nearly ten years now.

Thank you Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 22:35, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Right, I see; that's where we are, is it. Can you point to any reliable sources vouchsafing the notability of your equation? --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:41, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Well, it looks like a self-published book to me, ten bucks on Amazon, and the website is selling a mythical clean energy product that I don't understand. Drmies (talk) 22:49, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

More what could be mistaken for advertorial content

I was nominated by The United Nations as being one of the leading energy engineers in the world working on energy systems globally. My systems are being used by some of the largest, leading companies in the world. Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 22:53, 19 December 2023 (UTC) "I haven't slept for four nights. It is magic!" Roydon Fraser. - Professor, PEng, FEC, Teaching Chair University of Waterloo. ”This will shake the foundations of computer science!"   Aaditeshwar Seth. PhD. Computer Science. " I have read your proof, it's really impressive and straightforward to read. I'm really impressed with the results of this work. My first reaction, when I understood it was: Wow!. Primes play a huge role in modern cryptography, main cryptographic algorithms such as RSA, Diffie-Hellman, DSA are based on primes. That means that these results can create a revolution in cryptography!"  - Tatyana Khitrova. Computer Scientist and Cryptography expert “Do you have any idea what this means!?” Dr. Scott A. Vanstone Distinguished Professor Emeritus of Mathematics and Computer Science, University of Waterloo. Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 22:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Can you stop the sales pitch please? Drmies (talk) 22:53, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you all. I hope that you have enough to help this situation.

Have a good night. Lahrenjames7777 (talk) 22:54, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Where and when did you explicitly place the text in the public domain, Lahrenjames7777? Unless you have done so publicy, or you do so in an mail to Wikimedia as specified by donating copyright materials, it must be assumed to be copyright.

Secondly, Wikipedia does not publish original research. An article about your book or its contents must be based on reliably published independent material about the book, not on what the book says, or on what you or your associates say or want to say. If your supporters publish a peer-reviewed article discussing your work in detail, then that might be enough, but unpublished sound-bites won't cut it. --ColinFine (talk) 22:57, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Added category using hotcat

Hey Seniors! i hope you are doing well. actually i am new here, and i don't know how to add categories by Using hotcat, please guide me. Thanks you Youknowwhoistheman (talk) 07:36, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

It is explained here: Wikipedia:HotCat#Adding a category. Do you need additional guidance? --Tagishsimon (talk) 08:28, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Actually one more question is here. If we make small edits, is it necessary to show it as a minor edit? What if we don't show him the minor edit? Youknowwhoistheman (talk) 08:56, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Youknowwhoistheman Please read WP:MINOR. The idea is that other editors don't need to check edits marked as minor, so they should only be called that in limited circumstances. It doesn't matter if you don't mark a minor edit as such but it is misleading if you mark as minor something that is more substantial. Edit summaries are always useful. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Self identification as a source

An influencer describing themselves as a himbo has been included in the article on himbos. Is their own opinion relevant? Is their inclusion even relevant to the article in the first place? Blackdogcity (talk) 07:49, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Blackdogcity: Putting aside the question of whether the source was reliable, the story did not actually identify the influencer as a himbo, merely asserted that he was flogging clothes under a himbo brand. So, removed. Good catch. --Tagishsimon (talk) 07:58, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Sponsorship

Please STOP YOUR ONGOING BEGGING adverts asking for money. If you can’t manage the operation - CLOSE IT DOWN & go away - Stip ruining our experience 👎😡👎😡👎 2A00:23C4:D0F:1D01:9C29:17CA:2F74:C7EF (talk) 07:58, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikimedia's football, wikimedia's rules, I'm afraid. --Tagishsimon (talk) 07:59, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

But, if you create an account, you can use your preferences to stop the ad banners, so there's that route to consider. --Tagishsimon (talk) 08:00, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Either sign up for an account or ignore the ads. I have had an account for over 14 years and have never seen any of those ads, except when I deliberately look for then because somebody is complaining about them. I donate my time and my knowledge, which is vastly more valuable than mere cash. Cullen328 (talk) 08:13, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

I mean your experience is probably going to be bit more ruined if Wikimedia does "close it down and go away". --2001:8003:1C20:8C00:F211:A254:7DA9:FB24 (talk) 08:25, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

If it helps, the fundraiser has an end date (I don't know what), so if you don't like the above suggestions, you can consider avoiding WP until then. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Welcome and thank you for your question about donations! To hide the fundraising banners, you can create an account and uncheck Preferences → Banners → Fundraising. The Wikimedia Foundation does not track the identity of IP addresses, so it doesn't know your age, income level or whether you donated in the past.
None of the Wikipedia volunteer editors here who add and improve content in articles receive any financial benefit. We all simply contribute our time because we care about building a great encyclopedia for you and innumerable others around the world to use.
If you cannot afford it, no one wants you to donate. Wikipedia is not at risk of shutting down, and the Wikimedia Foundation, which hosts the Wikipedia platform and is asking for these donations, is richer than ever.
You are welcome to communicate directly with the donor-relations team by emailing donate@wikimedia.org. Thank you! -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 10:07, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

What variation of English is preferred when editing?

Do English-language editors on Wikipedia use American English, Canadian English or UK English for spelling, punctuation, etc.? Chikaren (talk) 09:36, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Chikaren Welcome! Language is one of a few issues where the en-WP-way is to keep it consistent within an article. If you edit the article London, you use UK, if you edit New York, you use American. And if you edit cheese, you follow the style that is there already, assuming there is one. More at WP:ENVAR. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:50, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Chikaren (talk) 09:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

For more information, see MOS:ENGVAR. Just wanted to let you know that more information about this is available. TypoEater (talk) 15:04, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Wait, oops, I didn't see that someone else had already said that. My bad! TypoEater (talk) 15:12, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

One account login to two device.

hey seniors, Greetings.

actually i am little bit confusion with on account login into my office system and personal phone, is this possible? Youknowwhoistheman (talk) 10:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

There shouldn't be a problem with this, Youknowwhoistheman. -- Hoary (talk) 10:51, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks you so much. Youknowwhoistheman (talk) 10:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

"Article submission has not been accepted at this time"

Hello DrowssapSMM, — Preceding unsigned comment added by SEV08RO (talk • contribs) 12:43, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

can it be considered a mention of his name on another wikipedia page? In his case, a selection to a team for a match in European cups. I read carefully before making this request and I thought that the mention of websites, newspapers, YouTube, etc. was sufficient.

Also, when denying the article, it says: "Submission is partially not in English." and I don't understand what the problem is. SEV08RO (talk) 12:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@SEV08RO Since this is the English Wikipedia, the entire article should be in English before the article goes to main space. The section about his professional(?) career is not English. —C.Fred (talk) 12:45, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Please read about WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG. All references in must be to WP:reliable sources - organs that have a reputation for editorial oversight and fact-checking. Wikipedia, like all other user-generated sites, is not reliable, and nor are self-published websites or YouTube videos. Many people are mentioned in Wikipedia articles (including me) but that does not mean that they are necessarily notable in Wikipedia's sense. ColinFine (talk) 12:50, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Looking closer at the article, not only does it need editing from the standpoint of English grammar, but it also needs review by editors who are independent of the subject and his club. Based on your claim that you own the image of Tica in the article, it would appear you have a conflict of interest. —C.Fred (talk) 12:54, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Can't find a fix to an incorrectly displayed navigation popup

On any article where Machpelah Cemetery (Queens) is linked, rolling over the link shows a picture but no text. I compared a couple other articles that work, but I can't find any difference. How would I fix this? (also, what is the proper name for these little article popup/previews?) JD Cornbread (talk) 14:17, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi @JD Cornbread, welcome to the Teahouse. The problem here was the coordinates template - when placed at the top of the article, it often interferes with the preview image in the popup (see here for more information; there's also a different preview feature, Navigation Popups, which account holders can choose to use). I've moved the coordinate template to the bottom of the article. 57.140.16.1 (talk) 14:25, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

JD Cornbread I remember this was mentioned once in the Village Pump Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_206#Page_previews_(popups)_broken - it has to do with the coord template being broken. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 14:26, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Are IP bans due to shared networks a possibility?

I often access Wikipedia through my school, which has some idiots that vandalize Wikipedia from time to time. I know this because I get notifications about how changes I did not make have been reverted, when I am not logged in. Is there a risk of me being IP banned due to my peers' poor behavior, and worse, is there a risk of that being associated with my account? ProteinFromTheSea (talk) 14:48, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi ProteinFromTheSea, I may have solutions. If you're worried about a blanket ban to all IPs from your school it should not affect you if you log in - in fact, that actually happened to me. If everyone at your school is editing from a single shared account or something like that (however that would work) you should create your own account. If neither of these are your situation, I'd love to hear more about your problem so that I can suggest ways to fix it. Best regards, TypoEater (talk) 15:02, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Trying to edit a page

My family page is Beaver Creek Indian Tribe and someone by the name of YuchiTown keeps undoing my changes despite proof. The live chat provided no help as noone answered. All we wanted to do is change pee-dee to muscogee, and its offensive that i was told it was "an interesting research theory" when my tribe is trying to update our paperwork. We are not from that area, we are not from south carolina. we SETTLED here. 64.234.38.130 (talk) 15:34, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

You need to come up with a reference pointing to a reliable source at the time you make the edit, not 'later'. You are in essence competing with a very reliable source which disagrees with your assertion. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

It appears that you have edited this article as User:ECreekNation and User:Edit807, and now here not logged in, hence an IP number for the account. Going forward, use only one account. Per what Tagishsimon wrote, changes to the article require references. Your response on your Talk page "I’m having the chief call the support line/ someone at the office as you are not authorized from my knowledge." will fail. There is no "support line/someone at the office". Editors are volunteers who live where they live and edit what they want to edit. David notMD (talk) 16:56, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Im not logged in as I’m using a different computer, I tried logging in and my password doesn’t work hence my ip address. The speculation as I’m trying to advoid anything is insanity. We are the source of that page as it’s OUR tribe. If you would like to delete the wiki page for false information we will be more than happy. 64.139.248.177 (talk) 17:04, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Would you like to contact the tribe yourself at this point if I’m just not providing enough resources though I’ve submitted these resources 64.139.248.177 (talk) 17:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, IP user. You are in a similar situation to somebody who is not happy with an article about them personally: you are welcome to make suggestions for improving the article, but your changes will not necessarily be carried out, and any information you want to introduce must have been reliably published. See WP:FAQ/AS. ColinFine (talk) 19:47, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Please read WP:RS. That is what wikipedia articles need. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:11, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you I will look into it, I fixed my login. Edit807 (talk) 17:18, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

reference question

Hi there,

My page edits (Draft:GoLinks) keep getting rejected for not having the right references. I read the criteria multiple times but looks like it might be impossible to get the page published? Other companies such as Asana seem to have been published with sources similar to this page.

Will take any advice. Thanks

Alexaklop (talk) 15:47, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Please read WP:COI and WP:PAID. Wikipedia is not a platform for company marketing. A Senior Content Marketing Manager should know that. Your references are in the main churnalism not WP:RS. I think there's a vanishingly small possibility that your company will get an article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:52, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Draft: Uman holistic help

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Uman Hi I just wanted to have someone look at my page and suggest some edits because what keep happening is someone will find one issue and I fix it and publish and then someone finds another issue and then I republish but if I could have someone look at it as a whole and make and let me know what issues are with it overall I can fix it and get published without all the back and forth. Nabil vega (talk) 16:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Nabil vega, I'm puzzled by the phrase "'Collective Impact' Model with Collaborative Representation of Artist Uman". Is that the name of a work (or exhibition, etc.)? If not, why that capitalisation? Maproom (talk) 16:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

It a term when a smaller independent gallery works with a bigger Blue Chip Gallery to share the responsibilities of an artist. Usually and artist would leave their smaller independent gallery for the more resourced gallery. So the term is important and also showing a shift in the art world. its a specific model but I can also uncapitalize it. Nabil vega (talk) 17:08, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Nabil vega: I suggest you review the adjectives in the draft. For example, what's a "taste-making" gallery? What source states that she "dazzled with their unorthodox and wholly original approach"? What source described her I Want Everything Now show was "successful"? Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 21:17, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestion Nabil vega (talk) 21:21, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

How long does it take an image to be replaced on Wikipedia?

So, I updated a new version of a map. When I open that image on commons, I see the latest version, however on Wikipedia I see the old version. How long should I wait approximately? PS: It's not about cache. Aredoros87 (talk) 17:06, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't know the details, but it can take a while. Worry after 24 hours. Raise a concern again after 48. Should be done before that. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:45, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer. I was talking about this file. In this article it's still not updated. Aredoros87 (talk) 18:27, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Aredoros87 it's updated for me. I would recommend WP:PURGE to force refresh the image that is retrieved. This is usually not urgent, but when someone sabotages the images with disturbing content, purge is your friend. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 19:51, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I tried purge. It didn't work out, but I checked another page with that picture and it was already updated. Seems like I have problem with cache. Aredoros87 (talk) 19:58, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Maximum amount of times you can edit an article

Hi, I just started using wikipedia and I was just wondering if there is a max amount of times that you can edit an article if you made a few mistakes, thanks! Soup Muncher II (talk) 17:36, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

There is no such thing as maximum number of edits. However there is a three-revert rule, so be careful when reverting. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 17:38, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Soup Muncher II: Other than the physical limitations of the database, there are no hard limits. However, if you are repeatedly editing to game the system, you will get flagged, and the 3rr that Delta mentioned. - UtherSRG (talk) 17:39, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

What can be broken before it can be used

What can be broken before it can be used

41.122.4.148 (talk) 17:58, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

A glowstick Soup Muncher II (talk) 17:59, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Do you have a question about using or editing Wikipedia? 57.140.16.1 (talk) 19:57, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Cabinets of Goverments

I want to expand List of cabinets of Greece in order to create articles about all Greek governments. However, I don't know what the appropriate title is. This article for example,Second Cabinet of Kyriakos Mitsotakis writes about member of cabinets only, but i want to create articles about government work also.

Thank you...D.S. Lioness (talk) 18:17, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi. You should start a discussion on talk page of that article. Aredoros87 (talk) 18:30, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

there isn't a general rule about the proper title? D.S. Lioness (talk) 18:59, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

There's actually. Take a look on WP:AT Aredoros87 (talk) 19:35, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Asking an editor to proofread my article before resubmitting it

Hi, I submitted an article that was rejected. The editor who rejected it said they or another editor could proofread my next attempt before I submitted it for publication. So I rewrote the article on the draft page... but now I'm not sure how to submit it to an editor without publishing it. This is the draft page, although I don't think you'll be able to see the updated version since I haven't clicked on "publish changes": https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Draft:Qmerit&action=edit Msbreslow (talk) 19:15, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Please just hit publish and if you think it is ready submit. there is no pre-review option.Theroadislong (talk) 19:31, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the response and the comment you left on the draft page. I've updated the draft to (hopefully) address everyone's concerns (and clicked on "publish changes" like you said - I appreciate the explanation). Msbreslow (talk) 20:27, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Msbreslow. "Publish changes" means "save" - it doesn't mean "publish to be part of the encyclopaedia". It was changed a few years ago, to remind editors that all edits are visible to anybody who goes looking for them: there are no private pages anywhere in Wikipedia.

You can continue to edit Draft:Qmerit, publishing your changes, until you have dealt with the issues mentioned by the reviewer, and then submit it again with the "Submit" button.

Note that you should remove any reference that doesn't mention Qmerit, or that only mentions its name, and also most references that come from QMerit, including from press releases (in particular, I think the Tom Moloughney piece is just regurgitating what QMerit says, rather than being truly independent). ColinFine (talk) 19:34, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation! I went ahead and hit "publish changes." Looking back, I felt the same way as you on the Tom Moloughney piece - that's one of the references I removed. Msbreslow (talk) 19:38, 20 December 2023 (UTC)