Talk:2023 Prague shootings: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 21:04, 21 December 2023

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2023 Prague shootings article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Current events

This article is part of WikiProject Current events, an attempt to expand and better organize information in articles related to current events. If you would like to participate in the project, visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.Current eventsWikipedia:WikiProject Current eventsTemplate:WikiProject Current eventsCurrent events

Czech Republic Low‑importance

	Czech Republic portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Czech Republic, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Czech Republic on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Czech RepublicWikipedia:WikiProject Czech RepublicTemplate:WikiProject Czech RepublicCzech Republic
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Death

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Disaster management Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disaster management, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Disaster management on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Disaster managementWikipedia:WikiProject Disaster managementTemplate:WikiProject Disaster managementDisaster management
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Title

Should it be 2023 Prague shooting, Charles University shooting, Prague university shooting or something else? X2023X (talk) 17:12, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with the current title for now Marginataen (talk) 17:26, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If the crimes started outside Prague the title isn't entirely accurate, but then again in that case neither are the listed alternatives. Unless it becomes 2023 Prague and Kladno shootings or the like. Paris1127 (talk) 18:53, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone have any proof about the weapon?

There are no citations for the fact that it is an AR-15 or AR-10-style weapon, does anyone have any proof that that is the case? 188.231.9.162 (talk) 18:01, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removed, thanks. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 18:22, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just a semi auto or bolt rifle, judging by the photo of him which is abit too blurry.

Could we just put long gun or rifle as the gun used for now? Koltinn (talk) 20:11, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

just "rifle" is fine, as long as there's a citation in the body of the article for the info sawyer * he/they * talk 20:13, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is mentioned in an interview during the news broadcast of "TV Nova" that the rifle is a ZEV 30. AggressiveC (talk) 20:22, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

ZEV AR-30, i'm pretty sure. AggressiveC (talk) 20:22, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Region locked source though, so people without an vpn cant easily access it. Koltinn (talk) 20:24, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I get that, but it's still a source. If I recall correctly, they mention the gun not only during the interview, but before it as well. AggressiveC (talk) 20:25, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

NYT isn’t the only source?

I’d just like the user by the name of Toadspike to know that the New York Times isn’t the only reliable source reporting this incident. 188.231.9.162 (talk) 18:19, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You can edit the article and add more sources? Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 18:23, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Courtesy ping: Toadspike Queen of Hearts ❤️ (she/they 🎄 🏳️‍⚧️) 18:28, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the ping. To the IP editor: I do not mean to offend by making many edits based on the NYT article. It is simply the source I have open, and one which says basically the same thing as most of the other American sources. I assume this criticism is about me changing the number of dead to 15. The NYT includes the victims father in the 15, and at the time no other sources cited here reported a number above 15, so I assumed they all also included the father in the 15. Now it seems that the number of dead has unfortunately risen further, so this may be a moot point.

As for me making many, very rapid edits, I am doing this to avoid edit conflicts. I hope it isn't annoying to those tracking the edit history. Toadspike (talk) 18:38, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Beginning of article

Right now we have "On 21 December 2023, more than 23 people, including the perpetrator, David Kozák, and his father, were killed in a mass shooting at the Faculty of Arts, Charles University on Jan Palach Square in central Prague, Czech Republic."

I propose something like:

"On 21 December 2023 more than X people were killed in a mass shooting Faculty of Arts, Charles University in central Prague, Czech Republic."

Then move the other info somewhere lower: "Police identified David Kozák as the shooter, who took his own life after killing X others. Police said that Kozák shot his father to death earlier in the day." Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 18:42, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"According to...." language

Please note that because Wikipedia has its references system, WP:INTEXT says "It is preferable not to clutter articles with information best left to the references. Interested readers can click on the ref to find out the publishing journal" — in other words, news media has to say "According to..." due to journalistic considerations of who got the scoop, plus their inability to insert lengthy references in the midst of their article. Wikipedia has refs, and is an encyclopedia, not news, so Wikipedia articles simply report what the sources says while leaving it to the refs to indicate who said it. Abductive (reasoning) 19:13, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Expanding on this: @AggressiveC, you keep re-adding unnecessary attribution.

"which the news reported stated later in a live interview broadcasted by TV Nova, a Czech television station."

This doesn't need to be in the article. I'm going to remove it unless you or others demonstrate why we need a full sentence which a reader can learn more about by clicking the ref

Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 20:05, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alternatively, and if it's really necessary to have in the article, it could read like this: "She later gave an account of this interaction to TV Nova." Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 20:06, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure the full video was only broadcast on TV Nova, so it would make sense to add this info there, wouldn't it? AggressiveC (talk) 20:07, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think people reading the article care where the interview aired, but I left a condensed version of the attribution, so for now it is still there. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 20:11, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What is the point of the ‘he who shall not be named’ situation with the suspect’s name?

Several news sources have reported the name of the suspect as David Kozak, including the Daily Telegraph and several local news sources. Why keep it hidden any longer? 188.231.9.162 (talk) 19:38, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's literally in the article? Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 19:39, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There’s an invisible comment in the introduction stating ‘don’t name the suspect’. People have been upholding this, even though the entire thing is pointless. 188.231.9.162 (talk) 19:41, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just don't name him in the lead. His name is given lower down. Abductive (reasoning) 19:47, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:SUSPECT. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:56, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rifle used in shooting?

The Daily Telegraph’s article has a photograph of Kozak holding a rifle upon a balcony, it looks to be a Norwegian variant of the Heckler & Koch G3, the AG-3F1. However, I am not sure. Could someone attempt to verify the rifle used? 188.231.9.162 (talk) 19:50, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wait until a reliable source has confirmed it. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:58, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is mentioned in an interview during the news broadcast of "TV Nova" that the rifle is a ZEV 30. AggressiveC (talk) 20:09, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not an AG3, is all black and there isn't any forest green handrail and stock.

it's some magasine fed rifle. Koltinn (talk) 20:17, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like some kind of G3-type rifle; possibly a H&K MSG90 or heavily modified PSG1. 188.231.9.162 (talk) 21:04, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Association with Klanovicky murders

The BBC is reporting that police believe the suspect is connected to the Klanovicky murders last week, an incident mentioned in The New York Times's article. How should this be integrated into the article? elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:58, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think it can stay in the "suspect" section, and if there ends up being enough substance, a subsection can be created. sawyer * he/they * talk 20:05, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should the article mention something was written or X or not?

Some people are changing whether it should say via X, or not. If one or the other, why not remove all mentions of "via X" and not just one? AggressiveC (talk) 20:23, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weapon acquired legally? Change the name of the article to "2023 Charles University shooting"

Did anyone read about the fact that the weapons used were acquired legally? I thought I read it in the news, but can't find it.

I also suggest that the name of the article changes to "2023 Charles University shooting", "2023 Charles University mass shooting" or "2023 Charles University mass murder". Scishare (talk) 20:38, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

what's your reasoning for the name change? sawyer * he/they * talk 20:43, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shooters death

Didn't he shoot himself then fall or did he get shot by cops? Some articles say he fell other say he was killed by police gun fire. Koltinn (talk) 20:49, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 68: / Line 68: @@
 :Not an AG3, is all black and there isn't any forest green handrail and stock.
 :it's some magasine fed rifle. <span style="font-family: Monospace; background-color: black; padding: 3px 3px 1px 3px;">[[User:Koltinn|<span style="color: white">Koltinn</span>]] [[User talk:Koltinn|<span style="color: red ">(talk)</span>]]</span> 20:17, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
+::It looks like some kind of G3-type rifle; possibly a H&K MSG90 or heavily modified PSG1. [[Special:Contributions/188.231.9.162|188.231.9.162]] ([[User talk:188.231.9.162|talk]]) 21:04, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 ==Association with Klanovicky murders==
 The BBC is [https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-67795251?ns_linkname=65849520f825603c1a3808fe%26Prague%20shooter%20connected%20with%20two%20murders%20last%20week%262023-12-21T19%3A47%3A43.915Zpinned_post_locator=urn:asset:563fd8fc-7704-4091-b33d-cfe4bdb9b052 reporting] that police believe the suspect is connected to the Klanovicky murders last week, an incident mentioned in ''The New York Times''{{'}}s article. How should this be integrated into the article? <span style="font-family: monospace;">[[User talk:ElijahPepe|elijahpepe@wikipedia]] (he/him)</span> 19:58, 21 December 2023 (UTC)