Talk:Operation Prosperity Guardian

Edit Request

In the info box, it should be David Cameron listed, not James Cleverly. David Cameron is the Foreign Secretary of the UK. Cleverly is the Home Secretary. 2600:4040:297C:8F00:DEA:D4B8:CDCC:9375 (talk) 16:02, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Mjroots (talk) 17:08, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

No mention of Israeli war against Gaza and Houthis target of Israeli vessels

No mention of Israeli vessels blockade by Houthis in response to Israeli war against Gaza population. Houthis spokesperson clearly mentioned that targeting of vessels going from/to Israel will stop when Israel allows food and medecin to Palestinians civilians in Gaza. 153 country voted for cease-fire in UN general Assembly and Israel refuse to abide. Without this context this article is totally biased and misleading. KHammadi (talk) 19:02, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Whom and for whom, i.e. for which body? Notably that ceasefire resolution did not pass (was it even mentioned? is there a transcript?), and even more notably jumping into a war promising to stop being a belligerant if and when a ceasefire is established is kind of weird. kencf0618 (talk) 15:29, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm sure this refers to United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-10/22 – there were 23 abstentions including U.K. and much of Europe, and 10 "no" votes including Israel and United States. ☆ Bri (talk) 16:16, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, this article is biased and misleading, so please edit it so to include that the Houthis claim that their Red Sea blockade is in protest of the war on Gaza. Here is a source from CNN clearly stating that the Houthis' say that their strike on ships "are revenge against Israel for its military campaign in Gaza."https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/19/middleeast/red-sea-crisis-explainer-houthi-yemen-israel-intl/index.html Also, Aljazeera affirms that "the Houthis have been targeting vessels in protest of Israel’s war on Gaza, which has killed more than 19,000 Palestinians." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/19/can-the-new-us-led-maritime-force-stop-houthi-attacks-during-gaza-war as well as AP news "Houthis have fired toward Israel during that nation's war against Hamas in the Gaza Strip." https://apnews.com/article/red-sea-houthi-yemen-ships-attack-israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-716770f0a780160e9abed98d3c48fbde and Reuters in the explicit article "Israel keeps pounding Gaza, Houthis vow more Red Sea attacks" explained as "Israeli forces pounded the shattered Gaza Strip on Tuesday while Yemen's Houthis vowed to defy a U.S.-led naval mission and keep targeting Red Sea shipping in support of the Palestinian enclave's ruling Hamas movement." https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/joint-patrols-guard-ships-response-attacks-by-houthis-backing-palestinians-2023-12-18/. Aim for neutrality and include this information, or else Wikipedia will not be a reliable source anymore. Autodios (talk) 12:33, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Houthi Belligerent

I propose that the Houthi Belligerent should be the Supreme Political Council instead of Houthi movement. The SPC is the Yemeni state as recognized by the Houthis. Ijedi1234 (talk) 23:01, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Work out which spokesmen for which organs have been speaking, then link to them. "Supreme Political Council" is too generic anyway. kencf0618 (talk) 15:13, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

The Supreme Political Council are the formal name for the Houthis. All Houthi forces operate under the Supreme Political Council and are apart of its military.XavierGreen (talk) 21:49, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 December 2023

Scope section

"Canada is deploy three staff officers" -> "Canada is deploying three staff officers" Tosatur (talk) 12:14, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 15:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

hms diamond missing fro. strength I quick reference

Hms diamond has been allocated by the Royal navy https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2023/december/19/20231219-diamond-red-sea-task-force Cack3xcalc201 (talk) 19:12, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

No mention of Palestine or the War on Gaza

In this entire article there is not one mention of WHY the Houthis are blocking shipping in the Red Sea. You would think the reason why an event was happening would make it into an article. Even if you don’t agree with their motives, there are many statements and news articles stating why they feel they must do this. 209.96.222.202 (talk) 19:19, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure that's germane to the article. Looking at Black September Organization and Munich massacre which may be considered precedents (especially Munich, which went through one or more GA reviews), they do not mention the motivations of the actors. ☆ Bri (talk) 20:00, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

The stated goals or motivations of an actor that leads to an event isn’t germane to an article about that event?

If by precedent of those two articles (those two you selected are only connected to this one because they involve the Occupation of Palestine… a better precedent for this would be US embargo of Cuba or the US seizing Iran flagged and internationally flagged vessels connected to Iran in international waters) both of those articles mention the Palestinian Resistance against Israel and in the Black September article the demands of prisoners being released - which are the motivations so I don’t know why you said they aren’t mentioned.

For another more recent example directly related to this one, in the wikipedia article on Israel-Malaysia Relations, it states:

“On 20 December 2023 during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, prime minister Anwar Ibrahim cited violations of international law and declared that all Israeli-flagged ships would be barred from docking in Malaysian ports, and ships heading to Israel would be barred from loading cargo.”

Which very clearly states an event and the reason behind the event. Why would you argue that the Houthis disrupting Israeli shipping should be presented differently?

There are many sources for this information:

“The Iran-aligned group has demanded that Israel allow humanitarian aid to enter Gaza, which has been reeling from more than two months of Israeli siege and bombardment. The Yemeni group has also called on Israel to end its brutal war on Gaza that has killed over 19,000 Palestinians.”

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/12/20/are-houthi-red-sea-attacks-hurting-israel-and-disrupting-global-trade

“In solidarity with Palestinian people in the wake of the brutal Israeli aggression on Gaza, Yemen reiterates the threat against Israeli vessels in the Red Sea.

We urge all countries to avoid shipping on vessels owned by Israeli companies or operated by them.”

-The Yemeni Armed Forces Spokesperson, Yahya Saree on their telegram channel.

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/yemen-to-target-any-ships-owned--operated-by-israeli-compani 209.96.222.202 (talk) 12:03, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

I have no horse in the race for this discussion but just from a quick scan Al Mayadeen is literally just a propaganda news outlet. Brandon Downes (talk) 09:12, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

royal navy ships missing from quick reference "strengths section"

HMS Lancaster, a squadron of three mine hunting vessels (HMS Bangor, HMS Chiddingfold, and HMS Middleton) and a Royal Fleet Auxiliary support ship (RFA Cardigan Bay)

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hms-diamond-joins-new-international-task-force-to-protect-shipping-in-the-red-sea Cack3xcalc201 (talk) 19:21, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

text errors

(The US contingent may include include the USS Carney and USS Mason). The Netherlands plans to send send two staff officers, is debating whether to deploy ships; Norway plans on dispatching up to 10 staff officers, but as of now is not sending any vessels. 2A04:EE41:3:12EA:3943:965D:3303:B206 (talk) 19:44, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Spain declared that they will not participate and this operation unilaterally

I think Spain should be removed of the operation 93.176.181.131 (talk) 23:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Source? Abo Yemen✉ 13:51, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm assuming they are talking about this:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-red-sea-taskforce-gets-limited-backing-some-allies-2023-12-20/ Brandon Downes (talk) 19:22, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I found another source regarding this: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/spain-denies-us-claims-it-will-help-patrol-red-sea/3087182, I think that means we should take Spain off the list Ahmed4040amr (talk) 05:35, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Operation Prosperity Guardian has practically collapsed as France, Spain, and Italy all announced their withdrawal from the U.S. Command Structure for the Operation, with the three nations stating they will only conduct further Maritime Operations under the Command of NATO and/or the European Union and not the United States.--87.170.199.189 (talk) 13:56, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Removal of Houthi flag from infobox

Hi @Bri, I understand your logic given what the Houthi flag says but this removal doesn't match other very similar articles that also include the Houthi movement such as Houthi involvement in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war or Yemeni civil war (2014–present). So I was just wondering if there could be some discussion around the re-addition of the flags given I don't think the removal matches the current status quo or the flags should be removed from those articles also right? Brandon Downes (talk) 23:11, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes, there are other articles that use this repugnant symbol as well. I've brought up the issue at WP:VPP. ☆ Bri (talk) 23:48, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

@Bri Right but the issue is only in discussion and isn't currently solved so I'm confused as to why it's only been removed in one article. Brandon Downes (talk) 00:17, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

missing authorization link with UN-Charta Art. 53

The article should include the reference of the operation with UN-Charta Art. 53 - means on which UN resolutions it is based. 91.221.59.22 (talk) 12:55, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Seychelles

Can the Seychelles really be regarded as a belligerent?

As according to the page; "Seychelles is not deploying any vessels or personnel, and limits its participation to "providing and receiving information""

Giving/receiving information is a normal procedure. In fact the US gives and receives intelligence to Ukraine in their war, but is not considered a belligerent. Or another example could be Norway and Chile giving the UK information in regards to the Falklands war - neither are considered belligerents.

Seychelles needs better sourcing to be regarded as a belligerent it doesn't meet the typical definition. Mlutter1 (talk) 14:58, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

When both the UK MoD and US DoD list the Seychelles as part of the operation I'm not quite sure what better sources you're looking for. Brandon Downes (talk) 21:27, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

As per the citation Seychelles is a member of Combined Maritime Forces. kencf0618 (talk) 15:19, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 December 2023

Add Australia to the list of belligerents. It’s already included in the text but not in the list. Lawrencewa (talk) 22:29, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Liu1126 (talk) 02:18, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

My recent edit that removes Italy and Spain

In this ever changing situation Italy and Spain may need to be re-added as more statements are released and reported on but the current information is that Spain will not participate unilaterally and only in EU or NATO led operations which this is not and Italy have said their frigate is to protect their own interests and is not apart of Op Prosperity Guardian but of the existing Op Atalanta therefore I have removed them both. I have also removed the French warship from the list of vessels involved given that it is reported that France will only participate if they keep command of their vessels. I also removed the list of British vessels which was my own mistake including them as they are apart of the exisiting Operation Kipion and not this one.

• https://www.reuters.com/world/us-red-sea-taskforce-gets-limited-backing-some-allies-2023-12-20/

There is a another source however wikipedia believes it is a shortened link when it isn't and given the changing nature of the operation no other news sources have reported these changes. I may be able to communicate the name of the website somehow but don't want to get in hotwater over what wikipedia is incorrectly and unofortunately seeing as a blacklisted link. Brandon Downes (talk) 02:57, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Inclusion of most countries

Considering that most countries in the list are sending handfuls of staff officers (or in the case of Seychelles, just "exchanging information"), is it even worth considering them as belligerents? Juxlos (talk) 10:27, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 December 2023

The "background" section needs to be edited, so to include the reasons, according to the Houthi rebels, on why they are attacking ships on the Red Sea, as they claim this is as protest to the Israeli war on Gaza.

Proposed edit (in black):

Background

See also: Houthi involvement in the Israel–Hamas war The operation aims to ensure the safety of maritime traffic in the Red Sea, Bab al-Mandeb and Gulf of Aden.[1] Following the start of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, multiple civilian container and freight ships were attacked and hijacked in the Gulf of Aden by Houthi forces. The attacks prompted most major shipping companies to divert their routes away from the Suez Canal. As of 21 December 2023, at least twelve civilian vessels have been attacked. The Houthi forces claim that this is a protest against Israel's war on Gaza.

Also, the "Reactions" section is extremely biased. How is it possible that only the threatening statement from the Houthis is included, a statement that has no reliable source, as the one included, Iran International, is not only extremely obscure, to say the least, but it is based in London and Washington, and not in Iran, according to yourselves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_International and not only that, when you click on the source backing up the following claim: “We have capabilities to sink your fleet, your submarines, your warships,” a top Houthi official said, according to the IRGC-affiliated Tasnim news agency. “The Red Sea will be your graveyard.” in https://www.iranintl.com/en/202312199443 the so called Tasnim link within the text itself leads to nowhere (and it does not even appear in The Wayback Machine). For this, it is only fair that the unjustified statement is removed, as there is no proof that the Houthis stated what is being said in Wikipedia and it is backed up by a clearly unreliable source, as shared in source [22], and also by a source that does not exist, source [23]. I ask you to be responsible with truth and replace this unproven statements with their statements from trusted sources, in which they openly state that the Houthis claim their intervention in the Red Sea is a protest against the war on Gaza. For this I recommend to edit it as follows, so to maintain reliability:

Reactions

The Houthis stated: "(US Secretary of State Antony) Blinken must realize that the circle of conflict will be widened, as long as the US continues to give Israel the time to continue the genocide in Gaza," pro-Houthi Al-Masirah channel quoted a statement by Houthi spokesman Mohamed Abdulsalam."[22] [23] In a public statement, Commander-in-Chief of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) Hossein Salami reassured the Iranian public that there is nothing to fear from the coalition.[24][25] (The Iranian government has long had purported direct ties to the Houthi movement.) IRGC senior officer Mohammad Reza Naqdi was cited as threatening to close "the Mediterranean Sea, (the Strait of) Gibraltar and other waterways" without explaining how.[26]

All the following are trusted sources, unlike what it is irresponsibly being shared in Wikipedia. CNN clearly stating that the Houthis' say that their strike on ships "are revenge against Israel for its military campaign in Gaza."https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/19/middleeast/red-sea-crisis-explainer-houthi-yemen-israel-intl/index.html Also, Aljazeera affirms that "the Houthis have been targeting vessels in protest of Israel’s war on Gaza, which has killed more than 19,000 Palestinians." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/19/can-the-new-us-led-maritime-force-stop-houthi-attacks-during-gaza-war as well as AP news "Houthis have fired toward Israel during that nation's war against Hamas in the Gaza Strip." https://apnews.com/article/red-sea-houthi-yemen-ships-attack-israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-716770f0a780160e9abed98d3c48fbde and Reuters in the explicit article "Israel keeps pounding Gaza, Houthis vow more Red Sea attacks" explained as "Israeli forces pounded the shattered Gaza Strip on Tuesday while Yemen's Houthis vowed to defy a U.S.-led naval mission and keep targeting Red Sea shipping in support of the Palestinian enclave's ruling Hamas movement." https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/joint-patrols-guard-ships-response-attacks-by-houthis-backing-palestinians-2023-12-18/ as well as the aforementioned https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/yemens-houthis-warn-about-widening-conflict-if-washington-keeps-backing-israel/3044085. Aim for neutrality and include this information, or else Wikipedia will not be a reliable source of information anymore. Autodios (talk) 13:17, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

References

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template.  Spintendo  23:10, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Denmark intends to send Frigate

Denmark intends to send a frigate as a part of the operation, should be added to the forces section.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/denmark-send-frigate-us-led-task-force-red-sea-2023-12-29/ 89.160.155.94 (talk) 16:37, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Attacks on shipping in the Red Sea table

Are we only having a table with examples of attacks on ships that have a notable outcome like the Maersk Hangzhou? As in my opinion given the header should it not be a table with all attacks post the announcement of the operation? Brandon Downes (talk) 03:21, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 January 2024

David Cameron, as he is referred to in the infobox, should be edited to display Lord Cameron instead, as this is his proper title as both a member of the House of Lords and Foreign Secretary. Thank you. 2405:DA40:1118:CF00:643A:1C76:5FF0:8738 (talk) 09:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: The current version is consistent with other names in the infobox and I don't see any good reason to change it. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 15:00, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

New Zealand participation

There's no mention of New Zealand at present, and as this is EP I cannot add it:

> On Wednesday, the governments of the U.S., Australia, Bahrain, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand and the United Kingdom issued a joint statement condemning the attacks and warning the rebel group against further escalation.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3631623/us-partners-committed-to-defensive-operations-in-red-sea/

> In effect, New Zealand has joined with 11 other allies of the United States to deliver a final warning to the Houthi Yemeni rebel group to cease its attacks on international shipping in the Red Sea or “bear the consequences”.

> What those consequences might be has since provoked considerable debate in global media where the 13 partners are now being described as a coalition. The group includes all Five-Eyes partners: US, UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand, as well as Bahrain, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Japan, Netherlands and Singapore.

https://archive.ph/OZrES BertieB (talk) 21:36, 10 January 2024 (UTC)