Talk:2024 Kansas City parade shooting

Requested move 14 February 2024

2024 Kansas City parade shooting → Kansas City Union Station shooting – It happened at a specific location, and not multiple places. MountainDew20 (talk) 21:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support: I redirected a duplicate article, Union Station shooting, to this one as that title seemed a bit vague given there are several Union Stations, but we should be specific with the location. This is Paul (talk) 21:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Is there precedence for removing the year? just curious Pdubs.94 (talk) 21:40, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

• Generally we only use dates if lack of a date would make the article ambiguous. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 21:44, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

  per the response from OrlinKolev below, it does look like there is some weak precedent established at WP:NCWWW Pdubs.94 (talk) 22:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
  

I have been of the belief that years should generally be included if the event is not of significant interest, such as the 2017 Aztec High School shooting. In this case, omitting the year may be more acceptable. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:48, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support per above.
• Support All the best: Rich Farmbrough 21:44, 14 February 2024 (UTC).
  
• Slight support — The reasoning in the move request is flawed. I initially believed that the shooting was during the event, but I have now learned that it was after. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support move to "2024 Kansas City Union Station shooting" per WP:NCWWW.

EDIT: Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME as pointed out below. I still think the year should stay per WP:NCWWW. In the future, it may be removed if the event is notable, e.g. Boston Marathon bombing, but for now it's too early to tell. OrlinKolev (talk) 21:54, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support move to "2024 Kansas City Union Station shooting" per WP:NCWWW and because of Kansas City massacre. — Smuckola(talk) 22:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support From the above user, reading Kansas City massacre tells that a shootout took place at the same Union Station in Kansas City in 1933, meaning that the year is definitely needed. Move to 2024 Kansas City Union Station shooting, or some other solution including the year. -boldblazer 22:15, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Slight oppose per COMMONNAME; Support for year removal - Sources seem to be more referencing the parade than the union terminal: 1 dead and up to 15 injured after shooting near Kansas City Chiefs parade, police chief says; 1 dead and multiple injured in shooting following Chiefs Super Bowl parade; At least one killed and up to 14 hurt at Kansas City Chiefs parade shooting; 1 dead, up to 15 injured in shooting at Kansas City Chiefs' Super Bowl rally; 8 to 10 people injured after shooting near Kansas City Chiefs parade, official says; Kansas City Shooting Reported After Chiefs’ Super Bowl Victory Parade Ends, at Least 10 Injured; One dead, at least 10 wounded after shots fired into crowd at Kansas City Chiefs rally: Live updates; One dead, others injured in shooting during Kansas City Super Bowl parade. --Super Goku V (talk) 22:21, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

  Neither COMMONNAME nor the WP:NOYEAR exemption from WP:NCWWW can be established in the hours immediately following an event such as this. If this was a shooting that had happened at least a year ago, or preferably 5 or 10 years ago then I'd agree that you'd be able to demonstrate common name. But not for an even that happened a little under 4 hours ago. Sideswipe9th (talk) 23:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

  I profoundly disagree with this on a WP:COMMONSENSE level, as references to the primary fact of the shooting being that it happened at a Super Bowl victory parade versus that it happened at a railway station is simply overwhelming and decisive in favour of the former, as demonstrated above. — AFC Vixen 🦊 02:33, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per argument above about COMMONNAME ChessEric 22:40, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Slight support: it's reasonable, the only issue I'd have is with the year, you'd have to put "2024" in the front of the title. 𝔐𝔢𝔪𝔢𝔊𝔬𝔡27 (talk) 22:57, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per confusion with the Kansas City massacre. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 23:24, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:NCWWW/WP:NCEVENTS and a need for disambiguation from other notable mass shootings in Kansas City. Sideswipe9th (talk) 23:45, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose for now, this is especially notable because it took place during the parade. Jbvann05 00:09, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Do NOT remove the word “Parade” from the title, because that is why the shooting happened. 2601:646:4102:2500:4124:12C9:6B9A:6A91 (talk) 00:03, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  That’s not WHY it happened, it’s WHERE it happened. Nonetheless, I think I now would support “2024 Kansas City Union Square shooting” more because I was unaware of the shootout that happened there in 1933. MountainDew20 (talk) 00:51, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose for now While I'm not thrilled about using the year, for now this works as a title. In addition, I agree about the potential confusion with the Kansas City massacre. Maybe ultimately title it "Kansas City Chiefs victory parade shooting"? With or without the year? Paris1127 (talk) 00:13, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, as I would much prefer a title that reflects the nature of the incident as having occurred at a Super Bowl victory parade. Natural disambiguation is preferred per WP:NATURAL, and so we should be straying away from titles that include and/or place emphasis on the shooting's location, as there have been many shootings in Kansas City, and many shootings at stations named "Union Station", as others in this conversation have pointed out. As far as I'm aware, this is the first time one has occurred at a Super Bowl parade, and placing emphasis on this instead will lead to a more natural article title that does away with a need to disambiguate with "2024". — AFC Vixen 🦊 00:39, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per common name. Also This wasn't the only notable shooting at Union Station as there was a major FBI shootout in 1933 that became notable in Kansas City History and actually is what many of us in the area had thought of in the proposed name here upto today's incident. Sawblade5 ^{(talk to me | my wiki life)} 00:45, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
  • note See also Kansas City massacre on this. I do not Oppose the proposed page being used as a Disambiguation page for both incidents. Sawblade5 ^{(talk to me | my wiki life)} 00:49, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. The parade was central to the shooting. It should be included in the title. WWGB (talk) 00:52, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Slight oppose - I think if anything Kansas City Super Bowl parade shooting (without the year) would suffice. CNC33 (. . .talk) 01:15, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  I'd support this wording of the title, or something similar to it. — AFC Vixen 🦊 02:17, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose removal of the year per WP:NOYEAR. No opinion on the other part of the request. estar8806 (talk) ★ 02:27, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Support change in title. The shooting occurred after the parade and not on the route. It took place west of Union Station and the change to "Kansas City Union Station Shooting" makes more sense. 2600:100A:B0C7:1661:A445:B796:744E:F4B1 (talk) 02:33, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose This is so recent that I don't think WP:COMMONNAME is something to think about quite yet. I would wait and see what it ends up being called/what sticks in a week or so. I do think that the KS city union station shooting is too generalized though, and union station/Kansas city massacre (a different event) is too close.  $Jayhawker6$【💬】 03:50, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per current WP:COMMONNAME and as too early per User:Jayhawker6 above. Springnuts (talk) 11:10, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  These reasons are directly contrary to one another. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 14:37, 15 February 2024 (UTC).
  

• Support The shooting didn't happen during the parade but after the rally at Union Station had concluded. That being said, the title should be "2024 Kansas City Union Station Shooting" so as not to confuse it with the infamous Kansas City massacre in the '30s. Listen1st (talk) 15:10, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

  • Oppose - Support 2024 Kansas City shooting per WP:CONCISE. --Jax 0677 (talk) 22:34, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

    Too ambiguous, as there had already been at least two other mass shootings this year in Kansas City. — AFC Vixen 🦊 02:24, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

    • Reply - Neither of which has a Wikipedia article. --Jax 0677 (talk) 13:13, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME PaulRKil (talk) 16:36, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Textual cite for 14 estimated injured?

This figure is given in the kctv5 video, on the linked page. However the linked videos are often changed. It's also not clear (from the video) whether the 14 includes the death. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 21:47, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

CNN. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:48, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

The press conference the KC Police just gave said 10-15 injured. ViceViceBaby (talk) 21:52, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 21:56, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

Someone is citing New York times for 10-15 ingjured. I can't access this article, so I'm reverting to 10-14 figure given by the Kansas City Police a few minutes ago. If there is a good reason to think the NYT is more accurate than the chief of police, please let US know in your edit summary. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 22:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

Thanks for pointing out I misheard the figure. 10-15 is what she said. Thanks also for sharing the NYT story. I still prefer the X link, it is accessible to all. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 22:17, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

15 I last heard.... BigKrow (talk) 22:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Twitter and other social media links should be avoided in favor of independent reporting. See WP:PAYWALL. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:26, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree. BigKrow (talk) 22:27, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

14, or 15?

Injured? Confirm? Thank you. BigKrow (talk) 22:08, 14 February 2024 (UTC) On February 14, 2024, at least one person was killed and fourteen others were injured, or 15? Thank you, i know numbers will change.... BigKrow (talk) 22:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Confirm that the police chief gave the range 10-15, see above. "We do not have exact number of people who were victims of a gunshot wound, it could be upward from 10 to 15 with one deceased." Is the best transcript I can give right now. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 22:21, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

Thank you Rich. BigKrow (talk) 22:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Per AP: One person was killed and up to 15 were injured in a shooting at the end of the parade to celebrate the Super Bowl win by the Kansas City Chiefs, sending terrified fans running for cover and marring yet another high-profile public event with gun violence. Kansas City Police Chief Stacey Graves detailed the shooting’s toll at a news conference (...) --Super Goku V (talk) 22:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Super Goku! BigKrow (talk) 22:23, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

DEATH TOLL

does anyone have confirmation on 2 confirmed deaths 47.225.106.135 (talk) 00:17, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Per the KC Star, KCPD are still saying it's just the 1 fatality. Obviously and unfortunately that may change. Paris1127 (talk) 00:22, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

They just confirmed there is a 2nd fatality somebody needs to add it 2600:100A:B0C7:1661:A445:B796:744E:F4B1 (talk) 16:26, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done - So far, the Kansas City Star is the only organization that has reported a second death and they seem to have retracted that at this time. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:52, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Information

Can we please make sure to read the latest news when adding injury numbers. Some people have been editing and including the crowd-trample injuries with the gunshot injuries. Can we please make sure to have accurate numbers. Thank You! 2600:100A:B0C7:1661:A445:B796:744E:F4B1 (talk) 02:29, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Having the NRA as a source?

Why is the NRA even used as a source? I reverted an IP who removed the fact that MO is an open carry state, but I noticed the info is sourced to the obviously biased (and I'm not exaggerating) NRA, making me doubt I should've reverted in the first place. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 03:16, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I made that edit, because the source before it (from CNN) mentions the NRA. The NRA link lists out the gun laws. If anything, we can rely on the first one, and not the second (NRA).

From the CNN article:

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/kansas-city-chiefs-parade-shooting-02-14-24/index.html

"(Andrew) McCabe noted that Missouri's gun laws do not require residents to have a state permit or licensing requirement before buying or owning rifles, shotguns or handguns, according to the National Rifle Association of America."

I went ahead and removed the NRA mention, but it is still in the CNN article. CNC33 (. . .talk) 04:41, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

CNN mentioning the NRA is fine. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:43, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

It's worth making the point that the question "Is this a reliable source?" should only be answered after considering the supplementary question: "A reliable source for what?" And I think NRA is a RS for gun laws by state. A government web site might be better though. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 14:42, 15 February 2024 (UTC).

Since the shooter was a minor who could not legally purchase a firearm, it doesn't make any sense to list any information about Missouri's gun laws at all. 2600:1012:B138:DBF1:287A:F6FB:74A8:74CD (talk) 13:35, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Image

Can we get a more updated image of union station? 2600:100A:B0C7:1661:A445:B796:744E:F4B1 (talk) 04:17, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

We should be looking for images of the event. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 04:37, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I took tons of photos before, during, and after the shooting. I'd link the shared google drive where they stored for use, but that's not allowed. What's the easiest way to publish thrm for use if needed? 2603:8090:1300:CD00:9172:1AB3:FDAD:528A (talk) 11:11, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Please upload them to Wikimedia Commons at c:Special:UploadWizard. If you have any trouble, feel free to let me know, and I will help out.

Alternatively, you can upload them to a social media site like Reddit or Twitter, link it here, and include in the post a message along the lines of "I release the content of this post under the Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike license 4.0". Before you do so, please make sure you understand what it means to donate material to Wikipedia. Thanks! ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 13:34, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Imgur is another option, be sure to tag them CCBYSA4.0. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 14:38, 15 February 2024 (UTC).

Other KC area teams reactions

Since this is a sports event, I do feel that having other teams reactions is valid. I have a source for it. You can remove Sporting KC as we don't have confirmation other than a retweet of Children's Mercy (their park's sponsor) statement on the event. If you wish not to add, I understand.

https://www.kmbc.com/article/kansas-citys-professional-sports-teams-mass-shooting/46793157 47.153.148.108 (talk) 06:58, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Can I request a possible suggestion as to how you wanted it worded in the article first? Right now, the only thing I could see is adding it after The Chiefs and the NFL expressed condolences. to make it something like The Chiefs and the NFL expressed condolences. Other local teams, including the Kansas City Royals, also expressed condolences. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:41, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Sure, that works. 47.153.148.108 (talk) 18:03, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Sources

There are many reliable sources for most of the (currently limited) information in this article. Please try to use sources that are widely available, and avoid those that need a subscription. For example fox4kc and kmbc are not available in the UK, and probably not available in the rest of Europe. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 15:21, 15 February 2024 (UTC).

WP:PAYWALL refutes this. Please do not attempt to control sources on the account you personally cannot access them. Other editors are willing to help. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 16:59, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Can you update that the shooting was done my minors and that the motive was gang related.That was just released on national news like CNN and FOX 2600:100A:B0C7:1661:A445:B796:744E:F4B1 (talk) 22:25, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

 Partly done - I have made it clearer that two of the three were "teenage juveniles" and that the third juvenile was released. (There is some confusion about the age of the person released with the Kansas City Star and sources citing them claiming the released individual is an adult. As far as has been reported, there wasn't an adult in custody, but maybe a details is inaccurate. Going with CNN and the best known info for now.) (Amended 00:57, 16 February 2024 (UTC) - KCS has retracted the info and is now reporting it was a juvenile.)

I have not written that the shooting was committed by the minors nor that the motive that this was gang related, for a number of reasons, including WP:BLPCRIME. If you can at least directly quote a source that makes the claim that the minors definitely committed the shooting, then feel free to mention it here. Same for the gang related part. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:31, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

unnecessary sectioning

hello, does it make sense to merge the following sections into one?

• background
• shooting
• victims
• suspects

i am sure we are following precedence from other, larger or more established articles, but currently the article feels a bit clunky. Pdubs.94 (talk) 15:38, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't make sense to me. Plenty of information is yet to come, and each of these sections will be greatly expanded. They shouldn't be lumped together. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 17:13, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I see no issue. This is the standard structure for nascent mass shootings. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:24, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Taylor Twellman tweet secondary source

I have a secondary source for tbe Taylor Twellman tweet that was removed. Feel free to add it back whenever possible.

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/nfl-stars-and-celebrities-react-to-shooting-at-2024-super-bowl-parade/ 159.115.9.47 (talk) 17:39, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

 Already done - Looks like Marcus Markup did so here. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:35, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

"Superfluous/Vague Details" being removed

I've noticed that details and first hand accounts & quotes that I've added are being either removed entirely or trimmed down to basically a five word sentence by others. I understand that at times it can help to the page, but it seems to be incredibly simplifying of the situation and not giving the full context or all of the information. Personally I feel that it helps add context but am reaching out for opinions. Leaky.Solar (talk) 17:39, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I regularly edit mass shooting articles and personal accounts are infrequently included because of the infallibility of memory and the lack of purpose. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 18:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

1993, 1994, 2011 Stanley Cup riots - comparable sports finals events gone horribly wrong

Somewhere in this article, some comparison or another should be made to the Stanley Cup (NHL equivalent of the NFL) riots that took place in 1993 in Montreal after the victory by the Montreal Canadiens, in 1994 in Vancouver after the defeat of the Vancouver Canucks, and in 2011 again in Vancouver and again after the defeat of the Canucks. Here are Wikipedia links to each of these articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Stanley_Cup_Finals#Riot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot

While unlike in Kansas City there were no deaths in any of these riots, there were lots of injuries, some here and there being serious or critical. The overall point here is that just like in Kansas City, so in those incidents we're dealing with sports finals events or their aftermath gone horribly wrong. Therav (talk) 15:36, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Riots and a shooting aren't exactly comparable. Have any other reliable sources made the comparison between those events and this? Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 15:41, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I'd argue the Nuggets shooting last year and the Raptors shooting in 2019 are more accurate comparisons. 47.153.148.108 (talk) 18:04, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Background section

Since I have now been reverted twice, it’s time for discussion. I argue that background section only needs to touch on the background of the shooting. The history of Union Station and any previous shootings is not relevant, nor is the inclusion of Missouri being an open carry state. We are not a news website, we don’t need click baity filler additions to the article. We are an encyclopedia. The inclusion of these details feels emotionally manipulative and therefore not NPOV. I move these two paragraphs be removed and leave the section on-topic for the shooting its covering. TrueCRaysball | ^#RaysUp 16:24, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree it is not needed per WP:COATRACK. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 19:01, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Also agree. It is not NPOV Weslima (talk) 19:55, 16 February 2024 (UTC)