Talk:Demon

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i know that 105.245.234.50 (talk) 02:59, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Section 'Wicca'

The section is only two sentences, and they are part of one quote. THe quote further says only that the topic of this article is not adressed in this worldview. I do not see the benefit in including an entire section just to state that they do not relate to the main article. Should this sentence be integrated to another section or be removed entirely? VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 11:34, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

On top of that, it's a tertiary source which may not represent the views of all Wiccans. I'd say either expand and source to several academic sources on Wicca for a wider range of views, or remove for now. Skyerise (talk) 13:33, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I remember me attempting to find reliable descriptions of demons in Wicca before. However, to no avail. I imagine it hard to find accurate descriptions of a rather modern and undefined movement such as Wicca. My opinion tends towards removal. If sources about demons in Wicca are found, a section can be created in accordance with whatever the source will have to say about the subject. Now, it is all just speculation. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 21:14, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Classification and grouping

The article is currently mostly structured around organized religions or relions by region. With further research on the Divs (demons) we find an inter-cultural depiction of demons in the Iranian and Central Asian regions. Currently, they are mostly discussed in the Persian section. I wonder, if a "South-Central Asia-Region" section could be fruitful. In this section, we could elaborate on more culturally fluid demons in this region. Some sources for "divs" are "Armenian Demonology: A Critical Overview", "Early Islamic Iran", and "SÜLEYMÂN-NÂME’DE MİTOLOJİK BİR UNSUR OLARAK DÎVLER* Mehmet Burak ÇAKIN". The latter one is a paper about Divs in Turkish language before the modern-period. However, this would add a new layer to the general structure of the article. On the other hand, I am afraid that the current state of the article could make a categorical error by classifying demons into strict boundaries. Again, the divs sem to be the only real inter-cultural demons, all other "demons" are rather ambigious spirits rather than demonic. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 20:02, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

"all other "demons" are rather ambigious spirits rather than demonic" What do you mean ambiguous? We have articles on characters like Pazuzu, who were seen as both "destructive and dangerous", and as protective guardians for women. Dimadick (talk) 21:29, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

I meant demons in the broeader sense. I have not seen a response in my Watchlist and received no notifactions. I now did the change I had in mind. If you think it is an improvement, it is done, if you disagree we can keep the old structure. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 20:14, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Citation 113

please consider islam in it most original form is called sunni and have no correlation with shia which is immensely merged into the topic of islam.. Strongly Recommend to abscind each into a topic of it's own as it is to be highly misleading information without proper elicitation!

Example, Citation 113 speaking of turning humans to stone is totally absent in islam except for shia. for affirmation sunni is the most origin to islam and the only form of prophet Muhammad's message. Shia and sunni can't go in parallel, adding to even more contradiction. 45.99.52.165 (talk) 20:19, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Where did you get that this is a Shia thing? Also Sunni Islam is muchh more syncretic in nature than Shia Islam. Please remember that Wahhabism is not Sunni Islam, but a reform-movement from within Sunni Islam. It feels sometimes like people speak of Sunnism but actually mean Wahhabism. If you point it out because the term "div" is closely etymologically related to the Persian "deva", remember that Persia converted to Shia Islam relatively late. "Shia = Iran" is not a constant throughout Islamic history. If I remember correctly, Shia Islam has been once associated with North Africa, but I do not remember the time-period. By the way, Sunni and Shia beliefs are in pre-Modern times even hard to distinguish, the clear cuts are a rather modern or even post-modern phenomena.

However, I agree with that there are a few claims rather associated with Middle Eastern/Asian demon-beliefs in general, rather than being strictly Islamic ones. This is why I requested the split within the sections above. I made a section for demons in Middle Eastern beliefs now. After reading the source about Armenian demons (being called "div"), Islam does not seem to be the common factor they share. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 20:20, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Crowley in lead

The lead gave a specific (and atypical) example of the use of Chrononzon, a "demon" made up by Crowley. However, there is no coverage of Crowley's beliefs in the body of the article. Since the lead is a summary of the article body, I've removed the material about Crowley from the lead. I mention this because it may indicate a gap in coverage that needs to be addressed in the body of the article. Skyerise (talk) 20:32, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose merging Cacodemon into this page. After removing a large WP:EXAMPLEFARM, there's nothing left beyond a WP:DICDEF, which could easily be merged in here. Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 21:47, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: the article on demons is quite extensive and general; it would be difficult to provide sufficient coverage for this there, and there is potential for expansion. Contrary to the claims in the nomination, this is clearly not a dictionary definition; and the contrast given in the lead with two related concepts also from Greek mythology underscores this. I think it was a serious mistake to remove the "popular culture" section: reviewing what it contained before being deleted by the nominator, I was surprised to learn that the concept was so widely known and employed; the article would benefit from having that material restored. P Aculeius (talk) 13:41, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose oppose per @P Aculeius: I will go ahead and restore the cited pop culture items, which were few. Feel free to find citations for others if you'd like to restore any of them. Skyerise (talk) 14:04, 17 March 2024 (UTC)