Talk:College of William & Mary: Difference between revisions
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***In the university's [https://www.wm.edu/about/history/#:~:text=The%20College%20of%20William%20and%20Mary%20in%20Virginia History and Tradition page], it says that {{xt|On February 8, 1693, King William III and Queen Mary II of England signed the charter for a "perpetual College of Divinity, Philosophy, Languages, and other good Arts and Sciences" to be established in the Virginia Colony as "The College of William and Mary in Virginia."}} The name "College of William and Mary" is also used by the university's various offices, such as listing its [https://www.wm.edu/offices/iae/accreditation/ accreditation] and [https://catalog.wm.edu/content.php?catoid=12&navoid=2189#:~:text=The-,College%20of%20William%20and%20Mary,-confers%20in%20course Requirements for Degrees]. While "William & Mary" seems to be the brand name for marketing and campus cohesion purposes, the "College of William and Mary" name seems to be the use in official documents for record and bylaws. Thank you. [[User:Cfls|Cfls]] ([[User talk:Cfls|talk]]) 16:13, 18 April 2024 (UTC) |
***In the university's [https://www.wm.edu/about/history/#:~:text=The%20College%20of%20William%20and%20Mary%20in%20Virginia History and Tradition page], it says that {{xt|On February 8, 1693, King William III and Queen Mary II of England signed the charter for a "perpetual College of Divinity, Philosophy, Languages, and other good Arts and Sciences" to be established in the Virginia Colony as "The College of William and Mary in Virginia."}} The name "College of William and Mary" is also used by the university's various offices, such as listing its [https://www.wm.edu/offices/iae/accreditation/ accreditation] and [https://catalog.wm.edu/content.php?catoid=12&navoid=2189#:~:text=The-,College%20of%20William%20and%20Mary,-confers%20in%20course Requirements for Degrees]. While "William & Mary" seems to be the brand name for marketing and campus cohesion purposes, the "College of William and Mary" name seems to be the use in official documents for record and bylaws. Thank you. [[User:Cfls|Cfls]] ([[User talk:Cfls|talk]]) 16:13, 18 April 2024 (UTC) |
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****Well, you may notice the original charter refers to it as the "Colledge", so that's not the strongest case. Again, independent, reliable sources like the ''New York Times'' and ''Wall Street Journal'' indicate the COMMONNAME use is with the ampersand (as noted in the general coverage of papers of record and local sources above). [https://www.britannica.com/topic/College-of-William-Mary ''Britannica''] uses "College of William & Mary", as does the [https://www.chea.org/college-william-mary Center for Higher Education Accreditation]. Further, in every public release from W&M (through their [https://news.wm.edu/ W&M News] arm), they use "William & Mary". For what it's worth, I was in Williamsburg over the weekend, and all the public road signage uses the ampersand. ~ [[User:Pbritti|Pbritti]] ([[User talk:Pbritti|talk]]) 16:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC) |
****Well, you may notice the original charter refers to it as the "Colledge", so that's not the strongest case. Again, independent, reliable sources like the ''New York Times'' and ''Wall Street Journal'' indicate the COMMONNAME use is with the ampersand (as noted in the general coverage of papers of record and local sources above). [https://www.britannica.com/topic/College-of-William-Mary ''Britannica''] uses "College of William & Mary", as does the [https://www.chea.org/college-william-mary Center for Higher Education Accreditation]. Further, in every public release from W&M (through their [https://news.wm.edu/ W&M News] arm), they use "William & Mary". For what it's worth, I was in Williamsburg over the weekend, and all the public road signage uses the ampersand. ~ [[User:Pbritti|Pbritti]] ([[User talk:Pbritti|talk]]) 16:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' Not only do we not allow subjects to control or dictate the contents of articles, including titles, it's difficult to believe that the subject's "official" name uses the word "and" when its webpage so prominently and consistently uses an ampersand as does its [https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?s=all&pg=1&id=231624 official name filed with the U.S. Department of Education]. [[User:ElKevbo|ElKevbo]] ([[User talk:ElKevbo|talk]]) 22:43, 18 April 2024 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 22:43, 18 April 2024
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Promotional Content
Removal of Promotional Content in accordance to Wikipedia Policy outlined in Talk:George Mason University#Removal of Notable faculty and alumni. 129.174.255.57 (talk) 20:33, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Just a lot of vandalism. If you choose to have others regard your attempts as in good faith, you should take some time to read the manual of style and lead section TEDickey (talk) 22:52, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Requested move 11 April 2024
 | It has been proposed in this section that College of William & Mary be renamed and moved to College of William and Mary. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. |
College of William & Mary → College of William and Mary – In the formal documents of the college, "College of William and Mary" is the way how the institute addresses itself. This is the usage in the institute's documents, including the Constitution of the Faculty Assembly of the College of William and Mary and the Constitution of the Student Assembly of the College of William and Mary. Cfls (talk) 15:15, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per COMMONNAME. The ampersand appears in reporting, promotional material, and academic contexts. Of note, the ampersand constitutes one of the symbols used by the school. ~ Pbritti (talk) 16:38, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment, how the school officially writes its name is irrelevent. Wikipedia is based on what reliable sources call it. Can you provide news articles that use "and" instead of "&"? Esolo5002 (talk) 19:01, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes: New York Times, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Daily Press. I can do more but I think this makes the point. ~ Pbritti (talk) 00:26, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Maybe both titles should be mentioned, with the ampersand-less version appearing as the title.
- 23emr (talk | contributions) 23emr (talk | contributions) 20:51, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: WikiProject Virginia and WikiProject Higher education have been notified of this discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 01:55, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Ampersands are usually best avoided. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Necrothesp: Per MOS:AMP, that's not true given this is a proper noun. Additionally, the only rationale provided is that documents by organizations affiliated with the institution (not the institution itself, as is mistakenly said) use "and" instead of the ampersand. Reliable sources appear to prefer usage of the ampersand. ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- In the university's History and Tradition page, it says that On February 8, 1693, King William III and Queen Mary II of England signed the charter for a "perpetual College of Divinity, Philosophy, Languages, and other good Arts and Sciences" to be established in the Virginia Colony as "The College of William and Mary in Virginia." The name "College of William and Mary" is also used by the university's various offices, such as listing its accreditation and Requirements for Degrees. While "William & Mary" seems to be the brand name for marketing and campus cohesion purposes, the "College of William and Mary" name seems to be the use in official documents for record and bylaws. Thank you. Cfls (talk) 16:13, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Well, you may notice the original charter refers to it as the "Colledge", so that's not the strongest case. Again, independent, reliable sources like the New York Times and Wall Street Journal indicate the COMMONNAME use is with the ampersand (as noted in the general coverage of papers of record and local sources above). Britannica uses "College of William & Mary", as does the Center for Higher Education Accreditation. Further, in every public release from W&M (through their W&M News arm), they use "William & Mary". For what it's worth, I was in Williamsburg over the weekend, and all the public road signage uses the ampersand. ~ Pbritti (talk) 16:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- In the university's History and Tradition page, it says that On February 8, 1693, King William III and Queen Mary II of England signed the charter for a "perpetual College of Divinity, Philosophy, Languages, and other good Arts and Sciences" to be established in the Virginia Colony as "The College of William and Mary in Virginia." The name "College of William and Mary" is also used by the university's various offices, such as listing its accreditation and Requirements for Degrees. While "William & Mary" seems to be the brand name for marketing and campus cohesion purposes, the "College of William and Mary" name seems to be the use in official documents for record and bylaws. Thank you. Cfls (talk) 16:13, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Necrothesp: Per MOS:AMP, that's not true given this is a proper noun. Additionally, the only rationale provided is that documents by organizations affiliated with the institution (not the institution itself, as is mistakenly said) use "and" instead of the ampersand. Reliable sources appear to prefer usage of the ampersand. ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Not only do we not allow subjects to control or dictate the contents of articles, including titles, it's difficult to believe that the subject's "official" name uses the word "and" when its webpage so prominently and consistently uses an ampersand as does its official name filed with the U.S. Department of Education. ElKevbo (talk) 22:43, 18 April 2024 (UTC)