Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Air Europa Flight 045: Difference between revisions

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Air Europa Flight 045

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Failure to comply with WP:NOTABILITY. Jetstreamer ^Talk 16:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Aviation and Brazil. Shellwood (talk) 16:56, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:53, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - This was a similar incident that happened to LATAM Airlines Flight 800 in March 2024. 71.114.103.105 (talk) 16:50, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - clearly WP:NOTNEWS. SportingFlyer T·C 16:58, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Elaborate. To some extent we have to avoid make articles about events just because they're in the news, but some events are notable enough to warrant an article, such as an in-flight upset that injures over forty people. Poxy4 (talk) 22:13, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly and not just 40 injured but 10 being critically aswell. I've seen a few articles (which are now deleted) that from my perspective isn't notable, but people thinking this incident should be deleted is mind-boggling. 2605:8D80:400:9392:E4F1:C26C:D541:CCEA (talk) 09:50, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just because a few people were injured doesn't make an article notable - these events are relatively common and there's no evidence of lasting coverage. SportingFlyer T·C 17:27, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

40 people isn't a "few". 2605:8D80:400:9392:1D11:14AA:DB77:C88F (talk) 21:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Firstly, this deletion seems like a WP:RAPID move to me. Sufficient secondary sources do exist at the moment and serious injuries have also taken place: [1], [2], [3] and plenty more. GalacticOrbits (talk) 16:59, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Turbulence occurs in such a way that passengers are injured very frequently and it makes a news cycle. There's nothing to suggest this will be any more notable than any of those non-notable events. SportingFlyer T·C 19:30, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But this is a larger than normal number of people who have been injured. 65.132.132.162 (talk) 20:27, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Look at LATAM Airlines Flight 800... Wonder what you'll say now huh. 2605:8D80:400:9392:D5DE:BDDD:4CB:2DBE (talk) 21:11, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Turbulence is such a regular occurrence in planes, but I'm assuming from the plane's flightpath, from it going from Spain to Uruguay which crosses the Equator. The "extreme turbulence" mentioned in the article might have been caused by the Equator's turbulence. A regular plane incident isn't worthy of Wikipedia standards.

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Anybody who wants to know if the article is worthy of being an article should read WP:PLANECRASH. 71.223.74.246 (talk) 20:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Said this like you've never did any research before, congrats. You didn't even acknowledge the amount of injuries and fatal injuries on this flight, take a look at LATAM Airlines Flight 800 and its the same exact incident. 2605:8D80:400:9392:D5DE:BDDD:4CB:2DBE (talk) 21:12, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Plenty of flights cross the equator every day that do not experience such severe turbulence. Also, most emergency flights do not have any injuries at all. If this is a "regular plane incident" then that's news to me. Poxy4 (talk) 22:15, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - by sources indicated above and by others per WP:NEXIST. While turbulence is common in aviation, 40 injured by turbulence not as much. gidonb (talk) 01:52, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unrelated to the discussion, the IP user above gidnob's post appears to be a troll acting in similar patterns to other deletionist trolls, if someone could get a mod that would be great. 174.27.146.142 (talk) 05:19, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You yourself are using an IP aswell, you have no room to talk. Mad for what? 2605:8D80:400:9392:D5FE:E7B5:F498:F52C (talk) 05:35, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not going to fight back, just going to give you a reminder to stay civil, I have an account on my school laptop if that helps you, this is a discussion not an arguement. 174.27.146.142 (talk) 06:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also not a "troll" so be careful what you say. 2605:8D80:400:9392:D5FE:E7B5:F498:F52C (talk) 05:38, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you all must, maybe next time start such a discussion under the comment that is relevant to that discussion? gidonb (talk) 13:49, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:EVENTCRIT #4. The comparison with LATAM Airlines Flight 800 is irrelevant: ~~firstly,~~ WP:OTHERSTUFF doesn't determine the notability of this event~~, and in any case the fatality on LA800 and the procedural changes that resulted from the flight add notability that isn't present here~~. Rosbif73 (talk) 06:33, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are you talking about SQ321 since it had a fatality and resulted in procedural changes? Aviationwikiflight (talk) 07:37, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, yes, confused those two – I've struck part of my comment accordingly. Rosbif73 (talk) 07:54, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Read articles and posts from the internet and people were being held up against the roof? I mean come on, you think this is common to you?? 2605:8D80:400:9392:798A:5167:ED51:6104 (talk) 18:06, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I advise you do some more research about this Air Europa incident because it clearly looks like you have not even tried to make an effort to. 10 people were badly injured and 30 others suffering other injuries. The connection between this and LATAM is relevant. The only difference was that this was due to bad turbulence. Would love to hear a reply from you because i seen you revert an edit from another article stating that this is a "run-of-the-mill"? Remember that 40+ including 10+(badly) were injured. 2605:8D80:400:9392:798A:5167:ED51:6104 (talk) 18:04, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:EVENTCRIT item 4 says Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, [...]) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance. The same applies to turbulence. This incident was more severe than average, sure, but it remains a run-of-the-mill event with no inherent notability. Rosbif73 (talk) 20:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Severe in-flight upset that resulted in 40 injuries and numerous hospitalizations. Has received significant media coverage and is thus notable enough to be included. ~~As for WP:OSE, it would apply if these editors were saying "well if we delete this we have to delete the other one too," but that is not the case.~~ Comparisons were drawn to LATAM 800 as a comparison. It too received significant media coverage and was deemed notable enough for an article. Perhaps you should review WP:ATAATA? Poxy4 (talk) 22:09, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"If we delete this we have to delete the other one" is not what WP:OTHERSTUFF is about. What it actually says is that the existence of an article about a similar topic cannot be used to justify a keep !vote (the case at hand), nor can the non-existence of a similar article be used to justify a delete. Rosbif73 (talk) 06:38, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've spent an hour reading your edit log and you seem to have always vote for delete. You seem to have huge hate for articles or something. 2605:8D80:400:9392:E4F1:C26C:D541:CCEA (talk) 09:43, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't make arguments to the person. I'm sure this person is a levelheaded Wikipedian who simply doesn't have the same view of Wikipedia as us, which is totally fine and doesn't mean he "hates articles." Poxy4 (talk) 15:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, I don't "hate articles", it's just that I would rather see articles about notable topics and notable events. Rosbif73 (talk) 15:45, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One of the qualifying factors for notability is that the event receives significant media coverage, which it has. multiple editors have provided sources that cover the flight. I myself heard about the incident through the news and came to Wikipedia for more information. Isn't that what all good encyclopedias should do? Poxy4 (talk) 17:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. 2605:8D80:400:9392:50A9:33C8:C6C4:BDF4 (talk) 22:20, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, actually, on reviewing OSE I have realized that that's pretty much what it says. However, the examples it gives are all two very different and unrelated articles, whereas LATAM800 and UX45 have undeniable similarities. We have decided that one is notable, so I believe this virtually identical incident is also notable. Poxy4 (talk) 15:22, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They're not similar, and each article has to stand on its own merits. LATAM 800 was either an issue with the plane or a pilot error, which is unique. This is simply that a plane went through turbulence and people were injured, which happens relatively frequently. SportingFlyer T·C 17:26, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

40 injured doesn't "happen frequently". 2605:8D80:400:9392:1D11:14AA:DB77:C88F (talk) 21:13, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[4] [5] [6] [7] [8] How many of these flights have Wikipedia articles? SportingFlyer T·C 22:04, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This incident had more injuries and there were more damages to the aircraft than the Hawaiian incident. 2605:8D80:400:9392:50A9:33C8:C6C4:BDF4 (talk) 22:18, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That has nothing to do with our rules here on Wikipedia - we require sustained coverage for events, and considering how often events like this one occur, how rarely they have sustained coverage, and how there's not really any sustained coverage for this one - the vast majority of coverage is from the day of the event. SportingFlyer T·C 05:50, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I am neither in favor or opposed to deletion. However, I advise the IP to let this discussion run its course and not treat it as a WP:BATTLEGROUND. Calling others "trolls" and alleging that users "hate articles" is not constructive and will not help your case. - ZLEA _T\^C 21:33, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Air Europa Flight 045 is an ongoing event. Like SQ 321 and LATAM Flight 800, this latest plane incident receives significant coverage in news networks such as CNN and BBC, and I'm not surprised there will be an investigation conducted on this matter. I also agree with GalacticOrbits opinion, in which they mentioned there are some serious injuries that have taken place as a result of plane turbulence. Galaxybeing (talk) 03:26, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - The general notability guideline is partly based on how much coverage the event receives in the media. It's one of the reasons why the Disappearance of Jay Slater has an article and not a lot of other disappearances that have occured. UX45 has seen significant media coverage, which I think makes it notable. Poxy4 (talk) 14:30, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just because something passes the WP:GNG does not mean we need to have an article on it, that is why we have WP:NOT. One of the specific parts of WP:NOT is WP:NOTNEWS: most newsworthy reports do not qualify for inclusion. For aviation events such as this one, sustained coverage is required. As I've noted above, most incidents of this type are not notable enough to receive a Wikipedia article, even though they make a full news cycle. While every article needs to be assessed on its own merits, I am not seeing anything which distinguishes this one from any of the other "injuries due to turbulence." But, regardless, just because the media writes about something doesn't mean we have to have an article on it. SportingFlyer T·C 14:40, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Plenty of emergency landings and in-flight turbulence events occur every week, but very few result in as much damage and injuries as this one. This has made a full news cycle and is still in the news several days later, which I think sets it apart from many other flights and warrants notability. Poxy4 (talk) 18:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just did a Google News search, the event happened 4 days ago and there hasn't been an article written on the event in the past two days that was in the search. So I did a Bing news search, the only article written within the last 48 hours which came up was a Daily Mail piece, which clearly isn't notable. So I did a third news search, and again, nothing in the last two days. This doesn't have lasting notability. SportingFlyer T·C 19:34, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per WP:NOTNEWS. Whilst the event has received a lot of coverage, the fact that (major) coverage ended 2-3 days ago (constituting mostly of breaking news coverage), compared to SQ321 where coverage continued for at least two weeks, makes this event fail WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE. Around 65,000 aircrafts suffer turbulence in the US, and about 5,500 experience severe turbulence, so cases such as this would be considered run-of-the-mill.[9] Aviationwikiflight (talk) 19:55, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Very few of the incidents result in injuries or are so shocking. One passenger was launched into an overhead bin and had to be pulled out by fellow passengers. That's not run-of-the-mill. Poxy4 (talk) 15:50, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here are multiple examples of severe turbulence, where numerous injuries, including severe, were recorded: Qatar Airways, Hawaiian Airlines, Lufthansa, United Airlines, Turkish Airlines, Aerolíneas Argentinas, KLM, [Delta Air Lines], JetBlue, Aeroflot, Transavia, [Air Canada]. In the past 40 years, turbulence has increased by 55% making events like this increasingly more common,[10] [11] which makes these events, more often than not, run-of-the-mill. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 17:12, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – The incident had a lot of repercussion and still has a lot of attention in Brazil, as of writting this, a news featured the incident showing one of the videos in the aftermath. Iyusi766 (talk) 00:51, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just checked and the last news articles (in portuguese) covering this flight were published 4-5 days ago so I'm not sure about what news articles you're talking about. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 09:18, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That was the day after the accident, so of course there isn't much. Ultimateyeetus (talk) 18:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NOTNEWS. ‹hamster717🐉› ^{(discuss anything!🐹✈️ • my contribs🌌🌠)} 03:40, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 61: / Line 61: @@
 *'''Keep''' – The incident had a lot of repercussion and still has a lot of attention in Brazil, as of writting this, a news featured the incident showing one of the videos in the aftermath. [[User:Iyusi766|Iyusi766]] ([[User talk:Iyusi766|talk]]) 00:51, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 *:I just checked and the last news articles (in portuguese) covering this flight were published 4-5 days ago so I'm not sure about what news articles you're talking about. [[User:Aviationwikiflight|Aviationwikiflight]] ([[User talk:Aviationwikiflight|talk]]) 09:18, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
+*::That was the day after the accident, so of course there isn't much. [[User:Ultimateyeetus|Ultimateyeetus]] ([[User talk:Ultimateyeetus|talk]]) 18:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 :'''Delete''' per [[WP:NOTNEWS]]. <span style="color: #000065; font-size: 5; font-family: monospace">‹[[User:Hamterous1|hamster717🐉]]› <sup>([[User talk:Hamterous1|discuss anything!🐹✈️]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hamterous1|my contribs🌌🌠]])</sup></span> 03:40, 6 July 2024 (UTC)