Talk:Mirepoix

Michael Ruhlman's books Ratio or The Making of a Chef would be appropriate citations for the given ratios and indication to measure by weight.

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—Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.230.38.115 (talk) 15:46, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Does the onion:carrot:celery ratio of 2:1:1 given refer to weight or volume of ingredients?

I'm not sure who is working on this article, but it is by weight--Christopher Tanner, CCC 02:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC)tanner-christopher

I went ahead and added this (and then checked discussion. shame on me) anyways, if someone is working on this page and wants to edit and use citations, feel free. DFS (talk) 08:33, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

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We have a problem user who insists on deleting the following text:

The three ingredients key to a particular cuisine, vary from culture to culture. The term is most commonly used in reference to Louisiana Creole and Cajun cuisine, where the trinity is chopped celery, bell peppers, and onions. A soffritto is the classic basis of Italian cuisines, varying somewhat by region, and Sofrito serves a similar purpose in Spanish cuisines.

Is this a known vandal? --Wetman 08:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Wetman, your censor/vandal/problem user theme isn't helpful. I removed this material because 1) it is unsourced and 2) it is completely irrelevant to this article, which isn't about any combination of any three ingredients, but only about mirepoix.Proabivouac 08:39, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I see that User:Proabivouac has not ever contributed any edit to any article on cuisine: see User history, and so this User's professed concerns here could easily seem merely truculent. Have I overlooked a relevant edit? This User took offense at a reference to the "holy Trinity" of cooking (which was indeed perfectly unnecessary) and deleted the entire passage in pique. Not the act of a responsible editor under any circumstances. Our assessment of this User's protestations of "good faith" may be tempered by looking over this User's consistent record of deletions and suppressions of text, challenges to other Users, insulting and controversial edit summaries, etc: Please look again at the User history. Anyone with the least interest in the subject will see that the other three-ingredient fonds de cuisine are essential to this brief article; no case needs to be made for that. This User's asserted opinion that the text is "completely irrelevant" has not been shown to be competent. Blanking text for personal reasons is an all-too-familiar technique of vandalism. --Wetman 09:10, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Unsourced and irrelevant material

Wetman, can you explain to "us" how this material about combinations of ingredients in other cuisines is relevant to mirepoix? And, what is its source?Proabivouac 09:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I am not Wetman, but I am an experienced cook and hope to clear up this confusion. The word "mirepoix" is, obviously, French in its original use. Basically, mirepoix is simply a defined set of ingredients and is the starting pointing for most stocks, sauces, etc. However, mirepoix ingredients often vary depending on the cuisine in which it is used. For this reason, information about mirepoix is more complete when it refers to more than just one type of cuisine. For example, this article uses the French-cuisine definition of mirepoix (onions, carrots, and celery, and their ratios), and that is fine. But, this definition will be of no help to someone trying to learn about mirepoix for Spanish cuisine. Perhaps a page of mirepoix ingredients/ratios for the more popular cuisines could be attached to this article. I hope this is helpful. Tell someone (talk) 01:06, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

There are OTHER NAMES for other aromatic bases. Don't try to put it all under the French terminology--Francophile. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.0.9.77 (talk) 17:49, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

other french mixture?

I came here looking for the other French combo which is the same thing, but diced. I thought the diced one was actually Mirepoix, but the same ingredients in large chunks in a soup was called something else... any ideas?--geekyßroad^{. meow?} 06:18, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

italian mirepoix??

There is a link to this page from pasta primavera that reads "Classic primavera is supported by the 'classic' Italian mirepoix of garlic, olive oil, and Parmesan cheese." Something's not quite right... 68.75.55.214 05:58, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Not only that, but the use of olive oil is relatively recent. Classic sauces such as ragu alla bolognese use lardo rendered in butter to make simple soffritto of onion, carrot and celery. I know the Americans love the Joy of Cooking (given as a reference in the article), but that book is no authority on Italian cookery as practised in Italy. Il Cucchiaio d'Argento is a more reliable reference work, and describes a range of soffritti, generally similar to the French, and using lardo. 86.148.117.209 (talk) 09:44, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Pommes Pompadour

Pommes Pompadour is a recipe for potatoes (pommes de terre), not apples. I don't know how to edit the citation, but this should be fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.222.159 (talk) 10:07, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I was looking for an article on "Soffritto" not Mirepoix...

and its relation to Italian cookery. Who's the pedantic clever dick who decided to merge the two and confuse everyone? Wikipedia is really depressing sometimes. 78.151.34.69 (talk) 02:05, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I concur: mirepoix IS NOT soffrito. Why do we insist on changing everything culinary to French--it was the Italians that taught the French to cook in the first place! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.0.9.77 (talk) 17:47, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Sigh. Reading this, 13 years later, after being puzzled by Sofritto redirecting to this, while also having a section in Sofrito. Meanwhile, the Sofrito (stew) article also links to Sofrito in its "do not confuse with" header part, referring to it as "the Latin American base sauce", which is also nonsense, as it would seem to have entered America with the Spaniards. I suspect mirepoix, or sofrito - being a part of Escoffier's recipe for Espagnole sauce - could play a role in the name of that sauce?

In any case, there needs to be some coordination between articles on sofrito (es), sofritto (it) and mirepoix (fr), and whatever other kinds of these vegetable bases might be called. Whether each local version needs its own page or all can just be combined into one article I don't know. 5.186.55.135 (talk) 02:19, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

What is meant by source #12 (Vitali 2001)? It seems cut off. --Adesme (talk) 23:08, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Culinary foundation

It doesn't seem to be a common term, but perhaps the various regional dices could be collected together in a category named 'culinary foundation'. — MaxEnt 23:43, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

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French and American bias

This article uses a French and American bias to insinuate the idea that French mirepoix is the standard for other cuisines, even though it attempts to make the similar comparisons.

The Italian, Spanish, Portueguese, etc. should not be simply understood based on the comprehension of French mirepoix, because they each are cut a bit differently and have their own use and technique. This creates an ethnocentric bias and primacy effect, not really comprehending what each one does, and why, and how it's incorporated into recipes, etc.

For example, the article goes on to describe how "mirepoix may be prepared 'au gras' (with meat) or 'au maigre' ('lean'); while ignoring the Italian "battuto" with ham, lardo or guanciale, etc. From there, it standardizes a bias in understanding or approaching these other cuisines.

The article should probably end with the French "mirepoix" if not other French cutting techniques, and refer to the other cuisines and articles as "see also".

At that, the article doesn't even include a link to Italian "soffritto" as much as it includes a link to the Spanish spelling Sofritto.

In turn, the article for Spanish style Sofrito also creates a bias and primacy effect and for the Italian soffritto, Potuguese refogado and so on. This just lots of pedagogical nonsense, pretense, bias, and confusion, and its a bad way of approaching things, as much as perpetuating a lack of true comprehension.

Given prior comments and judgement on this article, I find this article inappropriately biased, and even somewhat racist against the ethnic white cuisines, giving them a different kind of politics of respectability. All of this needs to change, across Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.3.162.39 (talk) 20:50, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

It would be helpful if the user whose unsigned comments above accuse this article of a Franco-American bias were to amend the article in line with his or her pertinent knowledge (rather than denigrate its existing content) and cite sources appropriately. All are encouraged constructively to amend, augment and erase content in Wikipedia articles. Humboles (talk) 00:24, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

'Mirepoix' to be italicised or not?

'Mirepoix', though adopted into English from French, might have assimilated enough into common use in English for it not to warrant italics anymore. Mirepoix appears in Merriam-Webster Online—which is described in MOS:FOREIGNITALIC as a good rule of thumb for deciding which words may or may not need to be italicised—suggesting that it may now be a loanword of English than a foreign French one.

If other editors don't have any issues I'll take care of the wiki formatting and remove the italicisation from 'mirepoix' here within a week or two. –I'llbeyourbeach (talk) 16:47, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done –I'llbeyourbeach (talk) 16:52, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 19 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 00:13, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

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• Mirepoix (cuisine) → Mirepoix
• Mirepoix → Mirepoix (disambiguation)

– Clear primary topic. The vegetable combination is a staple in cooking across the globe, even if the name comes from the French use of it. The French communes are of local interest mostly. Also, the page views are clearly in favor of the culinary use by a factor of at least a hundred. oknazevad (talk) 21:00, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

• Support as per nom. 162 etc. (talk) 22:04, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose WP:NOPRIMARY per long term encyclopaedic significance. Who exactly is suffering from (cuisine) on the current title? This is named after Mirepoix, as in Mirepoix Cathedral etc, and without (cuisine) is inherently ambiguous. Ambiguating the current title only makes the article more difficult to find in the search box and Google results. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:00, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support The cooking preparation is known world-wide. The French communes are small and not well known (populations 3130, 227, and 1027!). Unqualified "Mirepoix" is unlikely to refer to the cathedral except in a discussion of church architecture. --Macrakis (talk) 19:29, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sofrito redirect-distinguish

The section on Italian Mirepoix (Sofrito) is quite confusing, in the sense it tries to distinguish from Sofrito, while the contents are exactly the same. What is the issue here? Leonardo (talk) 21:32, 1 October 2022 (UTC)