Talk:LGBTQ rights by country or territory: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 00:24, 1 October 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the LGBTQ rights by country or territory article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5: 3 months

LGBTQ+ studies

This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies

Human rights High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics Mid‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Countries

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Countries, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of countries on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CountriesWikipedia:WikiProject CountriesTemplate:WikiProject Countriescountry

WikiProject Countries to-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Check out the article alerts; see if anything catches your fancy.
Cleanup : clean-up listing for Countries
Stubs : de-stub articles in Category:Stubs by region.
Other : add {{WPCountries}} to talk pages of related articles, and assess.

Lists Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Law High‑importance

	Law portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

https://www.ipsos.com/en/lgbt-pride-2021-global-survey-points-generation-gap-around-gender-identity-and-sexual-attraction

LGBT rights map is incorrect

Hello.

I want some help in editing the map being used on LGBT rights by country or territory (Template:World laws pertaining to homosexual relationships and expression).

The information concering South Asia appears to be incorrect:

Pakistan should be changed to "Prison, with arrests or detention"
Bangladesh and Sri Lanka shoud be changed to "Prison, not enforced" (I have no idea why Bangladesh is coloured as having same-sex relationship legal protections).

There have been no arrets in Bangladesh or Sri Lanka during the past several years so I doubt they should be included.

I have a feeling that Pakistan might be controversial, but the following do state that there are arrests of LGBTQ in the country, especially the UK foreign office summary:

Pakistan

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2021/10/08/pakistani-courts-confirm-bail-for-yale-alum-after-lgbtq-inspired-photoshoot/

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/world/pakistan-police-arrest-couple-facilitators-over-gay-marriage-94974

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62554b85e90e0729fef7bb5f/Pakistan_Sexual_orientation_and_gender_identity_or_expression.pdf

Shironese (talk) 14:18, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PK: "although Pakistan has not convicted sexual minorities on the grounds of anti-homosexuality legislation, the situation is different within families, as 'hundreds of homicides are committed each year in the country in the name of family “honour”.'"

We don't map 'honour'-killings, so yellow seems right. — kwami (talk) 00:17, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The key is about arrests not convictions. In that case both Bangladesh and Pakistan should be light orange "Prison, with arrests or detention". In fact Pakistan has an unenforced death penalty on the books, so it ought to be dark orange actually. Both seem to be glossing over the reality.

There was one example post of an arrest in Sri Lanka, but upon further investigation it seems that it was not actally an arrest but the couple threatened to commit suicide, so were taken to hospital by the police. There doesn't seem to be anything for consensual sex. SamanthaWinning (talk) 12:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I did make some of these changes, and several more, but reverted myself when people objected. So far the refs haven't panned out. E.g. AFAICT Pakistan does not have the death penalty on the books. I'll take a look at the one you posted on the map talk page on Commons. — kwami (talk) 19:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I got about halfway through your supposed refs for Pakistan, and they pretty much all failed verification.

Since you've proven incapable of backing up your claims, I'll want something better before wasting any more of my time with lists of supposed sources. Specifically, provide quotations from each source that you think proves your claim, with a page, paragraph or section number if the source is not searchable so that we can verify that it says what you think it says. — kwami (talk) 21:30, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gay relationships are still criminalised in 72 countries, report finds | LGBTQ+ rights | The Guardian

Pakistan does have the death penalty on the books. SamanthaWinning (talk) 09:40, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

kwami, be mindful of the language you choose. Regardless of the duration you have been editing Wikipedia, disrespectful interaction with other editors is prohibited. Period. 2604:4080:13F8:8320:183:756D:FB7B:E055 (talk) 21:36, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Homosexuality in Pakistan can be indirectly punished to death through the Offence of Zina. This source is from 2022.

"2.4.1 The Pakistan Penal Code (PPC) does not explicitly refer to same-sex sexual activity, but Section 377 defines ‘carnal intercourse against the order of nature’, as punishable by a fine and/or imprisonment for a period of 2 years to life. There is ambiguity on whether Section 377 applies to women, but it is assumed the law applies to both men and women. The Offence of Zina (Enforcement Of Hudood) Ordinance of 1979 criminalises any form of penetration in a sexual act outside of marriage. Whilst consensual same-sex sexual acts are not explicitly covered by these provisions since LGBTI people are not able to marry they suggest that any same-sex sexual acts that involve penetration could be prosecuted under sharia provisions and may be punished by death. There are no laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, consensual same-sex sexual acts are prohibited as are same-sex civil unions or marriages, and same-sex couples cannot adopt children (see Legal rights and Application of the law)."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pakistan-country-policy-and-information-notes/country-policy-and-information-note-sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-and-expression-pakistan-april-2022-accessible--2 WindofWasps (talk) 23:05, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We haven't been counting adultery laws in other countries. — kwami (talk) 00:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

why are all the country sub section in templates.

it makes it hard to edit. Rguyr (talk) 02:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's so improvements and updates can be synchronized across multiple pages. Remsense诉 02:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

LGBT travel advice focusing on 36 countries

The table contains LGBT travel advice focusing on 36 countries.

Country	Risk level	Caution level
Algeria	High risk	No travel allowed
Argentina	No risk	Regular caution
Australia	No risk	Regular caution
Austria	Low risk	Increased caution
Bangladesh	High risk	No travel allowed
Brazil	No risk	Regular caution
Canada	No risk	Regular caution
Chile	No risk	Regular caution
China	High risk	No travel allowed
Denmark	No risk	Regular caution
Egypt	High risk	No travel allowed
Finland	No risk	Regular caution
France	No risk	Regular caution
Germany	Low risk	Increased caution
India	Low risk	Increased caution
Indonesia	High risk	No travel allowed
Iran	High risk	No travel allowed
Israel	No risk	Regular caution
Italy	Low risk	Increased caution
Japan	No risk	Regular caution
South Korea	Moderate risk	Travel reconsidered
Mexico	No risk	Regular caution
Netherlands	No risk	Regular caution
Nigeria	High risk	No travel allowed
Norway	No risk	Regular caution
Pakistan	High risk	No travel allowed
Philippines	Low risk	Increased caution
Poland	Low risk	Increased caution
Russia	High risk	No travel allowed
South Africa	Low risk	Increased caution
Spain	No risk	Regular caution
Switzerland	No risk	Regular caution
Thailand	Low risk	Increased caution
Turkey	High risk	No travel allowed
United Kingdom	Moderate risk	Travel reconsidered
United States	No risk	Regular caution

For LGBT citizens:

Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Israel, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the United States are no-risk countries, which require them to exercise regular caution when they visit these countries.
Austria, Germany, India, Italy, the Philippines, Poland, South Africa and Thailand are low-risk countries, which require them to exercise increased caution when they visit these countries.
South Korea and the United Kingdom are moderate-risk countries, which require them to reconsider travel before visiting these countries.
Algeria, Bangladesh, China, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Russia and Turkey are high-risk countries, which block travel for them.

As an LGBT citizen:

Exercise regular caution when you visit Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Israel, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the United States due to no risk.
Exercise increased caution when you visit Austria, Germany, India, Italy, the Philippines, Poland, South Africa and Thailand due to low risk.
Reconsider travel before visiting South Korea and the United Kingdom due to moderate risk.
Avoid Algeria, Bangladesh, China, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Russia and Turkey due to high risk.

2603:7000:B500:5D4:2CE3:391E:911A:21C (talk) 18:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is your point, exactly? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:34, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My point is that:

No-risk countries include Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Israel, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the United States, requiring LGBT citizens to exercise regular caution when they visit these countries.
Low-risk countries include Austria, Germany, India, Italy, the Philippines, Poland, South Africa and Thailand, requiring LGBT citizens to exercise increased caution when they visit these countries.
Moderate-risk countries include the United Kingdom and South Korea, requiring LGBT citizens to reconsider travel before visiting these countries.
High-risk countries include Algeria, Bangladesh, China, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Russia and Turkey, blocking travel for LGBT citizens.

2600:4041:51E1:7000:303C:C8BB:CAEA:3E6D (talk) 23:43, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I still don't understand what you are asking for. Please see my reply below. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:17, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Information focusing LGBT rights acceptance or support and aversion by 36 countries

The table contains information focusing LGBT rights acceptance or support and aversion by 36 countries.

Country	LGBT rights acceptance or support level	LGBT rights aversion level	LGBT or LGBTQ rights status
Algeria	—	Mild aversion	A bit averse to LGBT rights
Argentina	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Australia	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Austria	Moderate acceptance or support	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Bangladesh	—	High aversion	Highly averse to LGBT rights
Brazil	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Canada	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Chile	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights
China	—	Moderate aversion	Averse to LGBT rights
Denmark	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Egypt	—	High aversion	Highly averse to LGBT rights
Finland	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights
France	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Germany	Moderate acceptance or support	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights
India	Mild acceptance or support	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights a bit
Indonesia	—	High aversion	Highly averse to LGBT rights
Iran	—	High aversion	Highly averse to LGBT rights
Israel	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Italy	Moderate acceptance or support	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Japan	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights
South Korea	—		Neither accepting or supporting nor averse to LGBT rights
Mexico	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Netherlands	Moderate acceptance or support	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Nigeria	—	High aversion	Highly averse to LGBT rights
Norway	Moderate acceptance or support	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Pakistan	—	High aversion	Highly averse to LGBT rights
Philippines	Mild acceptance or supporting	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights a bit
Poland	Moderate acceptance or support	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Russia	—	Moderate aversion	Averse to LGBT rights
South Africa	Mild acceptance or supporting	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights a bit
Spain	Moderate acceptance or support	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Switzerland	Moderate acceptance or support	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights
Thailand	Mild acceptance or support	—	Accepting or supporting LGBT rights a bit
Turkey	—	Mild aversion	A bit averse to LGBT rights
United Kingdom	—		Neither accepting or supporting nor averse to LGBT rights
United States	High acceptance or support	—	Highly accepting or supporting LGBT rights

2603:7000:B500:5D4:2CE3:391E:911A:21C (talk) 19:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is your point, exactly? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:35, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My point is that:

Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Israel, Japan, Mexico and the United States accept or support LGBT rights very much.
Austria, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Spain and Switzerland accept or support LGBT rights.
India, the Philippines, South Africa and Thailand accept or support LGBT rights a bit.
Neither South Korea nor the United Kingdom either accepts or supports or is averse to LGBT rights.
Algeria and Turkey are a bit averse to LGBT rights.
China and Russia are averse to LGBT rights.
Bangladesh, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Nigeria and Pakistan are very much averse to LGBT rights.

2603:7000:B500:5D4:68DE:BA26:7A38:9662 (talk) 00:42, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is based upon reliable sources, not subjective original analysis by users. Zenomonoz (talk) 01:38, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I still don't understand what you are asking for. I don't see any tables resembling these in the present article, the only mentions of some of these countries (e.g. Algeria, Bangladesh) are in tables transcluded from e.g. Template:LGBT rights table Africa, Template:LGBT rights table Asia, etc. and concealed inside collapsible boxes within LGBT rights by country or territory#LGBT-related laws by country or territory. Are your tables (i) suggestions for improving existing content; (ii) suggestiond for additional content; or (iii) an analysis of what we presently have in the article? If (i) or (ii), we definitely need reliable sources, per the policies on original research and verifiability; if (iii), see WP:NOTFORUM. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:16, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 30 September 2024

The request to rename this article to LGBTQ rights by country or territory has been carried out.

If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

LGBT rights by country or territory → LGBTQ rights by country or territory – per WP:CONSUB and MR/RM discussions and consensus on CfD, Portal, WProject --MikutoH ^talk! 23:50, 27 September 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). SilverLocust 💬 03:34, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:CONSUB for consistency with LGBTQ.--Trystan (talk) 13:23, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support since that's the title of the LGBTQ page Spookyaki (talk) 00:24, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Politics, WikiProject Law, WikiProject Countries, WikiProject Human rights, WikiProject LGBT studies, and WikiProject Lists have been notified of this discussion. --MikutoH ^talk! 22:46, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 274: / Line 274: @@
 [[:LGBT rights by country or territory]] → {{no redirect|LGBTQ rights by country or territory}} – per [[WP:CONSUB]] and [[Wikipedia:Move_review/Log/2024_September#LGBTQ|MR/RM discussions]] and consensus on [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 September 13#LGBT articles|CfD]], [[Portal_talk:LGBTQ|Portal]], [[WT:LGBT#Requested_move_6_September_2024|WProject]]&#32;--[[User:MikutoH|<span style="color: #be1918;">'''MikutoH'''</span>]] [[User talk:MikutoH|<sup><span style="color:#ee8b39;"> '''talk!''' </span></sup>]] 23:50, 27 September 2024 (UTC) <small>''This is a contested technical request'' ([[Special:Permalink/1248537072#JIM|permalink]]). [[User:SilverLocust|SilverLocust]]&nbsp;[[User talk:SilverLocust|💬]] 03:34, 30 September 2024 (UTC)</small>
 *'''Support''' per [[WP:CONSUB]] for consistency with [[LGBTQ]].--[[User:Trystan|Trystan]] ([[User talk:Trystan|talk]]) 13:23, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
+*'''Support''' since that's the title of the [[LGBTQ]] page [[User:Spookyaki|Spookyaki]] ([[User talk:Spookyaki|talk]]) 00:24, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
 :<small>Note: [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics|WikiProject Politics]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law|WikiProject Law]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries|WikiProject Countries]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Human rights|WikiProject Human rights]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies|WikiProject LGBT studies]], and [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lists|WikiProject Lists]] have been notified of this discussion. --[[User:MikutoH|<span style="color: #be1918;">'''MikutoH'''</span>]] [[User talk:MikutoH|<sup><span style="color:#ee8b39;"> '''talk!''' </span></sup>]] 22:46, 30 September 2024 (UTC)</small>