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==Suggested changes==
==Suggested changes==
{{edit COI}}
{{edit COI|ans=y}}
Hi all – following feedback from the kind editors at the Teahouse ([[User:ColinFine |ColinFine]]) I have made an effort to break the updates suggested above into two sections. Hopefully this will make reviewing simpler.
Hi all – following feedback from the kind editors at the Teahouse ([[User:ColinFine |ColinFine]]) I have made an effort to break the updates suggested above into two sections. Hopefully this will make reviewing simpler.



Revision as of 11:05, 25 October 2024

Suggested changes

Hi all – following feedback from the kind editors at the Teahouse (ColinFine) I have made an effort to break the updates suggested above into two sections. Hopefully this will make reviewing simpler.

The proposed changes are still the same to address issues with unreferenced material, tone of voice and out of date information regarding Klesch Group.

Thanks again – excited to be working on this! Rosalyn15 (talk) 13:36, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Rosalyn - could you please make it clear which parts are changing and which are staying the same? Talk:Bastion_(agency)#requestedit has an example of a possible way to format this, with old text on the left and new text on the right. Alternatively you can explain verbally, but the diff view is easier if you are making a large number of changes at once as you are here. Rusalkii (talk) 17:57, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi User:Rusalkii – thank you so much for your advice. I have followed this below, replacing the two boxes I had created before with the below side-by-side comparisons. I have broken up my suggested changes into three sections. Hopefully this makes it easier to review. Above each box I’ve left a short explanation of the major changes, but throughout I have looked to balance the tone and remove information I cannot find a source for. Thank you so much for your help. Rosalyn15 (talk) 08:58, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Below are my suggested changes to the opening sections of the article. Here I have focused on re-balancing the tone so that it is less promotional. I’ve also removed any information I could not find references for.
Side-by-side up to Quadrex
'''A. Gary Klesch''' (born 1947) is an [[Anglo-American]] [[entrepreneur]], who in 1990 founded the '''Klesch Group''', a global industrial company, based in [[Geneva]], [[Switzerland]], which he owns and chairs. The Klesch Group of companies has interests in [[metal]]s, [[mining]], [[oil and gas]], power generation, chemicals and other traditional [[Heavy industry|"heavy" industries]]. Klesch specializes in principal investing in companies that are operating below their full potential. == Early life == Klesch was born in [[Cleveland, Ohio]] in 1947 and educated by [[Society of Jesus|Jesuits]]. He graduated from [[John Carroll University]] in 1968 with a [[Bachelor of Arts|B.A.]] in [[Political Science]]. == Career == After finishing his studies, Klesch's first job was at [[Paine Webber]] in [[Cleveland, Ohio|Cleveland]], as a margin clerk. He was tasked with sorting slips of paper in the back office and earned less than [[United States dollar|$]]10,000 a year. In 1969, aged 22, Klesch joined McDonald & Company, then one of the largest regional investment banking firms, based in Cleveland, Ohio, as an associate. In his interview with founder Bertram McDonald, Klesch was told that if he worked hard, he would be a Partner in fifteen to twenty years' time. After leaving the interview, his immediate reaction was, "No way, no way I'm going to wait that long" and plunged into his job in the syndicate department. Two years later, aged 24, Klesch was made McDonald & Company's youngest-ever Partner. Klesch then came to the attention of [[William E. Simon|Bill Simon]], who had just been appointed [[United States Secretary of the Treasury|Secretary of the Treasury]] under President [[Gerald Ford]], and in 1975, aged 28, he was appointed Director of Capital Markets Policy. In this role he contributed to the development of a new model of financial regulation and in effect became [[Federal government of the United States|Washington]]'s man in charge of [[Wall Street]]. Klesch's responsibilities included developing the [[legislation]] that set in motion the [[deregulation]] of the securities and financial services industries in the United States and which ultimately resulted in Wall Street's "Big Bang". During this time, he also travelled to Europe, Japan and the Middle East to talk about capital markets and deregulation. Whilst at the Treasury Department, Klesch also served as the Ford Administration's representative in negotiations leading to US Government loans and guarantees to various financially troubled entities, including [[Lockheed Corporation|Lockheed]] and [[New York City]]. He also served as the US Government's representative on the Board of the [[United States Railway Association]], where he played a significant role in the negotiation and reorganization of troubled railroad companies, most notably the [[Penn Central]] Corporation, which collapsed in the early 1970s and was then the world's largest insolvency. Additionally, he was responsible for finding private finance for the space shuttle. In 1978, after two and half years in Washington, Klesch took a [[sabbatical]] and then joined the management of Smith Barney Harris Upham & International Smith Barney Harris Upham & Company, Inc. Better Business Bureau Profile, the Wall Street securities house, in [[Paris]]. He was given the role of Director responsible for Middle East development. In 1980, he was appointed President of the brokerage firm Dean Witter Reynolds Overseas Ltd. in London, where he was responsible for all of the firms' international activities. Under his presidency, the firm grew from 10 employees to over 200 and steadily rose up the Eurobond league tables. In 1982, Klesch won the Eurobond's best syndicate manager award. Setting up Dean Witter Overseas had given Klesch the confidence he needed, and two years after joining, Klesch decided to leave to create his own investment company.
+
'''A. Gary Klesch''' (born 1947) is an [[Anglo-American]] [[entrepreneur]], who in 1990 founded the '''Klesch Group''', a global industrial company, based in [[Geneva]], [[Switzerland]], which he owns and chairs. The Klesch Group of companies has interests in [[oil and gas]], power generation and other traditional [[Heavy industry|"heavy" industries]]. Klesch specializes in principal investing in struggling companies and turning them around. ==Early life== Klesch was born in [[Cleveland]], [[Ohio]] in 1947 and educated by [[Society of Jesus|Jesuits]] He graduated from [[John Carroll University]] in 1968 with a [[B.A]]. in [[Political Science]]. ==Career== After finishing his studies, Klesch's first job was at [[Paine Webber]] in [[Cleveland]], as a margin clerk. He was tasked with sorting slips of paper in the back office and earned less than $10,000 a year. In 1969, aged 22, Klesch joined McDonald & Company, then one of the largest regional investment banking firms, based in Cleveland, Ohio, as an associate. Two years later, aged 24, Klesch was made McDonald & Company's youngest-ever Partner. Klesch then came to the attention of [[Bill Simon]], who had just been appointed [[Secretary of the Treasury]] under President [[Gerald Ford]], and in 1975, aged 28, he was appointed Director of Capital Markets Policy. In this role he contributed to the development of a new model of financial regulation. Klesch's responsibilities included developing the [[legislation]] that set in motion the [[deregulation]] of the securities and financial services industries in the United States. Whilst at the Treasury Department, Klesch also served as the Ford Administration's representative in negotiations leading to US Government loans and guarantees to various financially troubled entities, including [[Lockheed Corporation|Lockheed]] and [[New York City]]. He also served as the US Government's representative on the Board of the [[United States Railway Association]], where he worked on the negotiation and reorganization of troubled railroad companies, most notably the [[Penn Central]] Corporation, which collapsed in the early 1970s and was then the world's largest insolvency. Additionally, he was responsible for finding private finance for the space shuttle. In 1978, after two and half years in Washington, Klesch took a [[sabbatical]] and then joined the management of Smith Barney Harris Upham & International the Wall Street securities house, in [[Paris]] as he was given the role of Director responsible for Middle East development. In 1980, he was appointed President of the brokerage firm Dean Witter Reynolds Overseas Ltd. In 1982, Klesch won the Eurobond's best syndicate manager award. Two years after joining, Klesch decided to leave to create his own investment company.

References

  1. ^ "Bloomberg stocks". www.bloomberg.com. Retrieved 2022-11-11.
  2. ^ "The Klesch Group website, Overview".
  3. ^ "The Klesch Group website, Gary Klesch's bio".
  4. ^ a b c "A. Gary Klesch". www.bloomberg.com. Archived from the original on 2016-04-14. Retrieved 2022-11-11.
  5. ^ [The Wall Street Journal, 23 February 1983, Talk of London's Clubby Eurobond World Is a Brash American Trader, Gary Klesch.]
  6. ^ [American in London, July 1990, Profile, Klesch In The Flesh]
  7. ^ a b c d [Institutional Investor, December 1987, What makes Gary Klesch run?]
  8. ^ "Spinning debts into gold: Recession has been the renaissance of Garry". The Independent. 1993-05-15. Retrieved 2022-11-11.
  9. ^ a b "Dealing in duds". The Economist. ISSN 0013-0613. Retrieved 2022-11-11.
  10. ^ [Financial Weekly, 8–14 January 1987, The Rise and Rise of Gary Klesch]
  11. ^ [Euromoney, December 1982, Diary of a Eurobond Investor]
  12. ^ "BUSINESS PEOPLE; A Top Officer Resigns At Dean Witter Unit". The New York Times. 26 November 1982 – via NYTimes.com.
  13. ^ a b Bousso, Ron (2014-10-03). "Billionaire Klesch eyes new European refinery buy, defying trend". Reuters. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  14. ^ Solsvik, Terje (2021-06-10). "Equinor sells its Danish refinery to Klesch Group". Reuters. Retrieved 2024-07-15.
  15. ^ O’Connell, Dominic (2016-06-16). "Veteran US Industrialist backs Brexit". BBC. Retrieved 2024-08-27.
  16. ^ [The Wall Street Journal, 23 February 1983, Talk of London's Clubby Eurobond World Is a Brash American Trader, Gary Klesch.]
  17. ^ a b c "Spinning debts into gold: Recession has been the renaissance of Garry Klesch, who thrives on other's troubles. Jason Nisse Reports". The Independent. 1993-05-15. Retrieved 2022-11-11.
  18. ^ Meikle, Brad (2004-12-01). "An unorthodox approach". Buyouts Insider. Retrieved 2024-08-27.
  19. ^ "BUSINESS PEOPLE; A Top Officer Resigns At Dean Witter Unit". The New York Times. 1982-11-26. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  20. ^ Neher, Jacques (1994-06-20). "Financial vulture cashes in". New York Times. Retrieved 2024-08-27.
  21. ^ [Euromoney, December 1982, Diary of a Eurobond Investor]
  22. ^ "BUSINESS PEOPLE; A Top Officer Resigns At Dean Witter Unit". The New York Times. 26 November 1982 – via NYTimes.com.
  • In the Quadrex section there is a lot of information that cannot be referenced and as such I have trimmed this material. Where I was able to find sources I’ve added them.
Quadrex
=== Quadrex === In 1983, Klesch set up Quadrex, which started in the Euromarkets but soon moved into acquisition finance, leverage buyouts and restructurings. The firm had operations in both London and New York. The firm enjoyed success quickly, with Klesch commenting as Chairman a year later that "we are very pleased with our accomplishments during our first year of operation. We have been very fortunate to attract both clients and personnel who appreciate the importance of innovative customer service in the international capital markets and who have helped us begin to develop a reputation in fulfilling these needs." The company reported net assets of [[Pound sterling|£]]5.3million operating with a share capital of £4million. Quadrex Holdings first subsidiary, Quadrex Securities Ltd. specialized in international financial transactions. Its first deal as lead manager was an issue for the U.S [[Conglomerate (company)|conglomerate]] [[Transamerica Corporation|Transamerica]] of "Eurotreasury" warrants. This was an attempt to create a vehicle for trading in Europe what would have been in effect options on long-term US Treasury Bonds. In spite of the issue being heavily advertised on the day, the offer was cancelled several hours later as demand proved insufficient. However, two days later, [[Merrill Lynch]] Capital Markets and [[Salomon Brothers]] Inc. unit of Philbro-Salmon duplicated the [[Warrant of payment|Transamerica Treasury]] warrant offering in almost every aspect except the price. After duplicating Klesch's idea, Hans Georg Hofmann [[:de:Hans Georg Hofmann|Hans Georg Hofmann]], executive director of Merrill Lynch International said "He (Klesch) was the first who had the guts to try it but in circumstances that made it difficult to succeed. In 1987, Klesch was recognized as the acknowledged developer of "EuroTreasury" Warrants with the Institutional Investor award for best idea. Following on from its first deal, Quadrex Securities Ltd. managed a series of other deals in 1984, including the $50 million 10 year issue for Equitable Bancorp and its first international deal, [[Citicorp]]'s $100 million offering of two year extendable bonds. By early 1985, Klesch had begun to look beyond Eurobond trading and started to undertake a series of acquisitions for his investment group including the first leveraged buyout of a public company in the [[United Kingdom]], the tender offer for R P Martin PLC, one of the largest foreign exchange brokers in the world. Also in 1985, Quadrex Securities Ltd., announced the offering of the first Euro-sterling [[zero coupon]] obligations backed by United Kingdom government securities, a new financial instrument to the securities market. The securities, known as STAGS (Sterling Transferable Accruing Government Securities), were issued in the Euro-sterling sector of the Eurobond market. However, the technique which had proved successful in the United States failed to attract enough attention and was withdrawn shortly after they were launched. After this, Klesch bought Polymer Corp, a maker of plastic parts, in 1986, and BoreSteel, a steel company in 1987 in an attempt to diversify Quadrex away from finance. He also drew up a plan for a consortium bid to break up Pearson PLC, the conglomerate that owned the Financial Times, although theoretically sound the plan was leaked to the media and appeared superficial and therefore ultimately failed. By 1990 Quadrex Holdings had been wound down and was officially dissolved in 1999. It was a victim of the decline in the bond market and had also become entangled in a lawsuit with British & Commonwealth Holdings PLC over the acquisition of the money broking side of financial service group, Mercantile House.<sup class="noprint Inline-Template Template-Fact" style="margin-left:0.1em; white-space:nowrap;">[<i>[[Wikipedia:Citation needed|<span title="This claim needs references to reliable sources. (January 2022)">citation needed</span>]]</i>]</sup>
+
===Quadrex=== In 1982, Klesch set up Quadrex, which started in the Euromarkets but soon moved into acquisition finance, leverage buyouts and restructurings. The firm had operations in both London and New York. The firm enjoyed success quickly. In its first year the company reported net assets of £5.3million operating with a share capital of £4million. Quadrex Holdings first subsidiary, Quadrex Securities Ltd. specialized in Eurobond trading and money-broking. By early 1985, Klesch had begun to look beyond Eurobond trading and started to undertake a series of acquisitions for his investment group including the first leveraged buyout of a public company in the [[United Kingdom]], the tender offer for R P Martin PLC, one of the largest foreign exchange brokers in the world. He also led an unsuccessful bid to break up Pearson PLC.By 1990 Quadrex Holdings had been wound down and was officially dissolved in 1999 It was a victim of the decline in the bond market and had also become entangled in a lawsuit with British & Commonwealth Holdings PLC over the acquisition of the money broking side of financial service group, Mercantile House.

References

  1. ^ [Financial Times, 6 January 1983, Former Dean Witter men to start securities house]
  2. ^ [Securities Week, 28 February 1983, New Investment Banker Opens Doors Eyeing Transaction-Orientated Deals]
  3. ^ [Financial Times, 10 August 1983, Quadrex sponsored issue not subscribed]
  4. ^ a b "Spinning debts into gold: Recession has been the renaissance of Garry Klesch, who thrives on others's troubles. Jason Nisse reports". The Independent. 1993-05-15. Retrieved 2022-11-11.
  5. ^ [Securities Week, 28 February 1983, New Investment Banker Opens Doors Eyeing Transaction-Orientated Deals]
  6. ^ a b Neher, Jacques (1994-06-20). "Financial vulture cashes in". New York Times. Retrieved 2024-08-27.
  7. ^ Stiff, Peter (2012-01-30). "Business big shot: Gary Klesch". The Times. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  8. ^ Willcock, John (1995-10-04). "HSBC penalty cut by £163;56m". Independent. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  • In the below I have updated the Klesch section with the latest information and also looked to balance the criticism section, the opening line of which I believe to be very different in tone to an encyclopaedia.
Klesch onwards
=== Klesch Group === In 1990, Klesch founded Klesch & Company Limited to specialize in distressed and turnaround investing. During the last decade, Klesch & Co. has been involved in a number of high-profile deals, and today is a global industrials commodities business with three divisions specializing in the production and trading of chemicals, metals and oil. It employs more than 4,500 people across 40 locations in over 16 different countries. Its turnover is in excess $5 billion.<sup class="noprint Inline-Template Template-Fact" style="margin-left:0.1em; white-space:nowrap;">[<i>[[Wikipedia:Citation needed|<span title="This claim needs references to reliable sources. (January 2022)">citation needed</span>]]</i>]</sup> == Corporate activity == * 1993: acquisition of [[DAF Trucks|DAF]], Dutch truck manufacturer * 1996: acquisition of TC Farries, Scottish bookseller * 1998: acquisition of Knickerbox, a British lingerie chain, and of Myrys, a French shoemaker * 2009: acquisition of [[Delfzijl]] steelworks in Netherlands and of [[Heide]] refinery in Germany (from [[Royal Dutch Shell|Shell]]) * July 2012: acquisition of Kem One, vinyls activities of the French [[Arkema]] Group * February 2013: acquisition of Groupe Leali, an Italian steel producer * January 2022: acquisition of Kalundborg Refinery and its terminal located in Hedehusene in Denmark (from [[Equinor]]) == Criticism == [[Trade union|Unions]] and European local politicians fear the worst from Gary Klesch, as shown by the example of unions at [[Alcoa]]'s, [[Sardinia]]n steel factory, whose employees protested against a possible takeover by Klesh & Company Limited. This is due to its reputation as a "vulture capitalist" conveyed in the press and the closing of several acquisitions made by Gary Klesch for which the businessman pledged to boost the activity, as the example of Kem One company. In 2012, Klesch & Co bought the [[Polyvinyl chloride|vinyl]] business division of Arkema for one symbolic euro, which he later renamed "Kem One [[S.A. (corporation)|S.A.]]" Klesch claimed that the raw materials industry is subject to a bright future and said that the group Klesch & Co had the expertise to improve the efficiency of industrial processes and trade with amenities. In the transaction, Arkema took charge of its 587 million loss from the pole and offered a treasury of 100 million euros to help stimulate activity. 8 months later, the company was declared insolvent, threatening more than 1,300 jobs. French unions suspect him to have placed Arkema money in its financial holdings registered in Jersey, Malta or Bermuda.
+
===Klesch Group=== In 1990, Klesch founded Klesch & Company Limited to specialize in distressed and turnaround investing. During the last decade, Klesch has been involved in a number of high-profile deals, and today invests in industrial businesses and refines, markets and sells petroleum products and financial derivates. It employs 1,000 people across 6 locations in 4 countries. In 2023, the Group had turnover of €8.5 billion. ==Corporate activity== * 1993: acquisition of [[DAF Trucks|DAF]] Dutch truck manufacturer * 1996: acquisition of TC Farries, Scottish bookseller * 1998: acquisition of Knickerbox, a British lingerie chain, and of Myrys, a French shoemaker * 2009: acquisition of [[Delfzijl]] steelworks in Netherlands and of [[Heide]] refinery in Germany (from [[Royal Dutch Shell|Shell]]) * July 2012: acquisition of Kem One, vinyls activities of the French [[Arkema]] Group * February 2013: acquisition of Groupe Leali, an Italian steel producer * January 2022: acquisition of Kalundborg Refinery and its terminal located in Hedehusene in Denmark (from [[Equinor]]) ==Criticism== Klesch has been described in the media as a “vulture capitalist” due to a history of investing in struggling businesses and slashing costs. In 2012, Klesch & Co bought the vinyl business division of Arkema for one euro. Once the acquisition went through the company was renamed ‘Kem One S.A. . At the time of the deal Klesch was publicly optimistic that he could turn the company’s fortunes around. However, 8 months following the acquisition, the company was declared insolvent putting 1,300 jobs at risk In December 2013, industrialist Alain de Krassny agreed to take over the business with assistance from the French Government. The events involving Klesch and Arkema were later referenced by employees at a steel factory in Sardinia owned by Alcoa as they protested against reports that Klesch & Co were exploring a possible takeover.

References

  1. ^ a b c "Dealing in duds". The Economist. ISSN 0013-0613. Retrieved 2022-11-11.
  2. ^ "Steelguru, «Klesch Group inks pact to Italian steel makers the Leali Group», February 22, 2013".
  3. ^ "Alcoa, i sindacati: "Accelerare la trattativa per la vendita a Klesch", Regione – News – Cagliaripad". 2013-10-29. Archived from the original on 29 October 2013. Retrieved 2022-11-11.
  4. ^ Neher, Jacques (1994-06-20). "Financial vulture cashes in". New York Times. Retrieved 2024-08-27.
  5. ^ "Home | Chemical Week". chemweek.com.
  6. ^ James, Olivier (2012-01-30). "Qui est Klesch, repreneur potentiel du site Petroplus ?". L'Usine Nouvelle (in French).
  7. ^ "Flash Infos 69 / CHIMIE : Klesch accuse Arkema de tromperie pour la cession de Kem One – Rachat Entreprise – Flash Infos". 2013-10-29. Archived from the original on 29 October 2013. Retrieved 2022-11-11.
  8. ^ "Le Parisien, «Les syndicats de Kem One (chimie) inquiets sur l'avenir de la société», 7 February 2013".
  9. ^ Julius Falkengaard, Mathias (2022-01-07). "US business mogul, known in the 80s as a vulture capitalist, plans green overhaul of Danish oil facility". EnergyWatch. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  10. ^ Solsvik, Terje (2021-06-10). "Equinor sells its Danish refinery to Klesch Group". Reuters. Retrieved 2024-07-15.
  11. ^ "Home". www.klesch.com. Retrieved 2024-07-22.
  12. ^ Harrison, Michael (1993-04-14). "Leyland DAF deal 'in its final stages': Hopes rise for conclusion soon as MBO team examines offers of funding from City". Independent. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  13. ^ Thomas, Susan (2014-01-07). "Dutch aluminium smelter Aldel applies for bankruptcy". Reuters. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  14. ^ "About Us". www.heiderefinery.com. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  15. ^ "Arkema finalized the divestment of its Vinyl Products segment". www.arkema.com. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  16. ^ "Klesch Group inks pact to Italian steel makers the Leali Group". Steel Guru. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  17. ^ "Klesch inks deal to buy italian special steel producer Leali Group". SteelOrbis. 2013-02-22. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  18. ^ "Equinor selling its refining business in Denmark to Klesch". www.equinor.com. Retrieved 2024-07-10.
  19. ^ Neher, Jacques (1994-06-20). "Financial vulture cashes in". New York Times. Retrieved 2024-08-27.
  20. ^ a b c Lagrange, Catherine (2013-03-27). "Spun-off Arkema unit begins bankruptcy proceedings". Reuters.
  21. ^ James, Oliver (2012-01-30). "Qui est Klesch, repreneur potentiel du site Petroplus ?". L’usine Nouvelle.
  22. ^ "Alcoa, i sindacati: "Accelerare la trattativa per la vendita a Klesch", Regione – News – Cagliaripad". 2013-10-29. Archived from the original on 29 October 2013. Retrieved 2022-11-11.


Thank you! Some thoughts:
  • Why did you choose to change the specific industries called out in the lead to the ones you did? The source gives "chemicals, metals and oil".
  • I recognize this was not your addition, but "full potential" is not supported by the source. What I'm getting there is that it specalized in bancupt/otherwise financially struggling companies, which is importantly different.
Overall thoughts on the first section, up to Quadrex: this looks like a clear improvment over the previous content-wise, but I can't verify many of your sources. Some have no links, and others are paywalled. If they've been digitized, can you link them? Otherwise, I recommend adding a brief quote from the source that supports the statment you're sourcing, using the quote= paramenter.
Will return later for the next two sections. Thank you for your patience! Rusalkii (talk) 06:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi User:Rusalkii – thank you so much for your time.
In response to your questions I updated the specific industries called out to be in line with the current focus of the business and noted on the point regarding the use of “full potential”.
I have found a more recent source which reflects the focus industries and included this. I’ve also found a BBC article which describes the specialism and adopted this language. This is all now reflected in the box.
On the sources, yes, many of those already in the article are quite old and so digital versions are hard to obtain. I have been through the article again and where I can, have replaced these sources with digitalised articles that speak to the same points. There are now just a small number of these older sources from the current article. I hope this will help improve the overall quality. – All of these updates are reflected in the three boxes above.
Thank you again for all of your time and really looking forward to seeing the article improved!
Rosalyn15 (talk) 09:12, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]