Talk:Mufti Abdul Razzaq

Mufti-e-Azam which redirects to Grand Mufti what to use?

Vice regent and Anupam Pinging you guys in order to end the disruption started by the IP address. The title Mufti-e-Azam in Urdu translated to Grand Mufti in English and Mufti-e-Azam likewise redirects to Grand Mufti. This is English Wikipedia and not Urdu Wikipedia where we use Urdu words and terms despite having an alternate English word or term. Since, Mufti-e-Azam redirects to Grand Mufti - I see no merit in using Mufti-e-Azam in the infobox as a honorific prefix. The IP is best at reverting again and again even after being warned. Please share your thoughts. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 01:55, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

@Hatchens: Your opinion is needed here. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 02:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

I mean how can a Chinese language or Urdu language portal publish English stuff. Urdu sources would use Urdu terms lol not English ones. An Urdu news portal saying "wo Mufti-e-Azam thy" is "He was Grand Mufti" in English, and not "He was Mufti-e-Azam". English audience don't know what "Mufti-e-Azam" is. Let's be helpful and use English alternatives for Urdu words on English Wikipedia.─ The Aafī ^(talk) 02:07, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

@Goldsztajn: Pinging you because you've been in the old discussions on Grand Mufti. 02:09, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

@Hatchens: @Goldsztajn: Vice regent and Anupam note the editor has open an ANI on edit warring notice board you are humbly requested to kindly have a look there. 106.195.2.3 (talk) 02:13, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

• Comment I reverted my report and the IP reopened my report against them. This is yet again bad behavior. I've asked the report to be closed. Let the issues be fixed here. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 02:24, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm honoured that my opinion is being requested here. For the infobox, I would recommend that we use the English honourific, since this is English Wikipedia. If the anonymous editor is insistent upon using the Hindi-Urdu locution, it could be added as a footnote after the English name if this compromise resolves the dispute (see the article about Chapli Kebab as an example, where the Devanagari and Nastaleeq scripts are added as footnotes after Pashto). I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 02:51, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

• Comment I've been through the Urdu sources, he is given the title "Mufti e Azam Madhya Pradesh". Sources such as this and this have discussed him likewise. Since this is English Wikipedia, I'd advise using the English term here, and replace the IP addition with "Grand Mufti of Madhya Pradesh" as is apparent from the sources. We do not need English sources to say so. All we need is "sources" in any language which are reliable and verify the statements. Thanks. — The Chunky urf Al Kashmiri ^{(Speak🗣️ or Write✍️)} 05:42, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

^Comment I think it is fine for the body of the text to have the Urdu designation in brackets somewhere, so that it says ‘…was the Grand Mufti (Mufti-e-Azam) of Bhopal/Madhya Pradesh’. The purpose of an infobox however is to rapidly and succinctly convey key information to English speaking readers. Transliterated Urdu is no help to them, so it should not be used in the infobox. Mccapra (talk) 18:11, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Dear IP, I've undone your edit because this is not how it works. Give this discussion a few more days. Please. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 01:56, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Reverting my own edits, no worries if you are interested to wait, you can wait as much as you like, but sorry dear I have other works also so can not dare to waste my time here any more, anyways agreeing with the Anumpam and Maccapra , Thank you all of you for the healthy discussion. 2401:4900:52F8:DB16:166C:4DF3:ECF9:D64F (talk) 02:12, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

This isn't how discussions work and end. We have a procedure for this. You seem to be a new IP other than the previous one. If you're okay with opinions of Mccapra and Anupam. That's good. Thanks for your input. But let this discussion follow the procedural close. Thanks ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 02:14, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

• Comment Thanks Mccapra for your input. I'm fine with your suggestion. We don't use foreign terms in the infobox. So the honorifc prefix I suggest would be "Grand Mufti of Madhya Pradesh" (partially fixing this diff, and three sources support it). As a native Indian, we don't have any government based official such position like the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia except for the religious seminaries who have senior Muftis like Habibur Rahman Khairabadi. Jammu and Kashmir however has the position associated with government. That said, I've already stated in the article that In 1958, he was appointed the vice-mufti of Bhopal's "Dārul Qadha" (Islamic court); and chief-judge in 1968. He served as the Mufti of Bhopal city from 1974 to 1983. So that's a non-government office and this is all what I could get from his biography related to the post. Based on the sources we have, I can add a little sentence in the body like He was seen as the Grand Mufti (Mufti-e-Azam) of Madhya Pradesh and then we add the title "Grand Mufti of Madhya Pradesh" as honorific prefix as I've indicated above and I've already his Mufti/vice-Mufti/chief-judge posts a the Dārul Qadha Bhopal in the infbox. Lemme know if this makes sense. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 02:14, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

The honorific "Grand Mufti of Madhya Pradesh" is suitable. Thank you User:Maccapra, User:TheAafi, and 2401:4900:52F8:DB16:166C:4DF3:ECF9:D64F. Kind regards, Anupam^Talk 15:18, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

• Update Thank you everyone for the nice advises and comments. I've updated the honorific prefix in the infobox to "Grand Mufti of Madhya Pradesh" based on the outcome of this discussion and also added a sentence in the body as Mccapra advised. Thanks. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 09:45, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Add image of the former

Image uploaded as my original work on wiki commons 0sama432 (talk) 17:59, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 25 December 2024

Mufti Abdul Razzaq → Abdul Razzaq (scholar) – Previous attempts to rename this article were reverted on the grounds that it complies with Wikipedia's CommonName policy. However, based on my understanding, the title does not align with the policy's requirements. "Mufti" is an honorific title, and its inclusion in a CommonName is justified only when it is widely recognized and has become a fundamental part of the subject's identity, as in the cases of Mufti Mehmood or Maulana Azad. A comprehensive review indicates that the subject is not widely discussed in reliable sources, either in English or their native language, and lacks sufficient secondary sources. How, then, was the determination made that this is a CommonName? Coverage is limited, primarily consisting of breaking news after the subject’s death, with the majority of sources being relatively non-mainstream. While it is common for media to use titles in describing individuals, such usage does not necessarily equate to a CommonName under Wikipedia's criteria. –𝐎𝐰𝐚𝐢𝐬 𝐀𝐥 𝐐𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐢 ʕʘ̅͜ʘ̅ʔ 14:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)