Talk:Transgenerational epigenetic inheritance

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I think this article is pretty sound in terms of the information provided. The additional links also help in providing context to the article in relation to additional information. Kswoolen (talk) 06:00, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

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Ppentony (talk) 11:16, 15 March 2023 (UTC)==Unsigned section== I don't understand why the axin fused mice (kinked tail) are pictured when they are not referenced in the text. Also why isn't the work from Marcus Pembrey et al, included, surely that is one the best examples of transgenerational inheritance? And it is in humans. A good review can be seen here: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v14/n2/full/5201567a.html (assuming you have access to nature).

I agree that the inclusion of the mice should either be justified by quoting a source which claims that the trait can be inherited or removed. If it is just an example of how an epigenetic change in an individual can change that individual then it should appear in the main epigenetic article, not this one. Ppentony (talk) 11:16, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Experts debunk study that found Holocaust trauma is inherited

The inherited trauma of Holocaust survivors study at the Icahn School of Medicine is apparently very likely to be worthless, see: http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/ct-holocaust-trauma-not-inherited-20170609-story.html The paragraph should probably be updated to strongly put the study into question. Roythebob (talk) 22:07, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Given that it was a single study (primary research) which has been rebutted as unsafe, I've removed it. If it gets some support from further research and is then discussed as not necessarily worthless by a reliable secondary source (like a review paper in a major journal) then we can put something back, but for now, it's just bad science. It shows the good sense in WP:PRIMARY, by the way. Chiswick Chap (talk) 01:18, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

The National Library of Medicine and the American Journal of Psychiatry have published the paper, and it has since been cited by 72 articles as of September, 2020.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24832930/

Rwandan genocide

Should the study into the Rwandan genocide inhertiance be included?

• https://www.usf.edu/news/2022/study-finds-rwandan-genocides-chemically-modified-the-dna-of-victims-and-victims-offspring.aspx
• https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/epi-2021-0310 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.191.81.174 (talk) 18:48, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

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Failed verification

I can't find support for this claim "leading some to consider that due to epigenetics, modern biology should no longer reject the inheritance of acquired characteristics (Lamarckism) as strongly as it once did". The closest I can find in the referenced citation [here] is in the Conclusion where is discusses the Lamarckian nature of culture (as opposed to genes) and concludes: "In this and other respects, perhaps it is premature to compare humans to plants (as Burbank did) in terms of their capacity to recall past environments, in this generation and the next.", which seems nearly opposite to the claim made - at least in terms of humans. Tobus (talk) 00:37, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Agree, since this hasn't been addressed I am going to remove that entire paragraph. Zenomonoz (talk) 11:23, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

In Humans

The "In Humans" section appears to be largely about intergenerational inheritence, not transgenerational. I've rewritten the introduction and removed most of the "Dutch famine" discussion - the ref profided explicitly says "The Dutch hunger winter [effect]... is not due to the transmission of epigenetic information through the maternal germline" (emphasis mine). Reading the rest of the section it also largely seems to be discussion of intergenerational inheritance - where sperm, eggs or unborn babies are directly exposed to the negative environment, with no requirement (or proof) of any actual epigenetic inheritance. I don't really have time to rewrite it all right now (might get to it soon), and don't want to just blank the whole thing, so I've left it for now - if anyone wants to cast a critical eye over it, please do. Tobus (talk) 01:19, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your edits, yes this is controversial. I would appreciate any further edits you have. Perhaps including the fact that the "the Dutch hunger winter [effect]... is not due to the transmission of epigenetic information through the maternal germline" would actually be useful. Zenomonoz (talk) 11:22, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

This is not controversial, Zenomonoz. Please state your involvement into epigenetics research, if any. I want to make sure that authors are portraying NPOV and not what *they* want to be the truth.

--2.242.94.177 (talk) 11:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

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Pseudo-Science, please delete lemma

This 'subject' is only a wet dream supported by right-wingers who use 'epi'genetics as refuge after racial superiority was dis-proven. Also, authors of this article should be permanently banned for their attempt to impose fake science on the public. Most of their papers have been retracted already and they are excluded from academia at large.

--2.242.94.177 (talk) 11:37, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand your concern. Is there a particular statement in the article that you feel is incorrect? Or a reference that is not sufficiently WP:MEDRS? I couldn't find the word 'lemma' in the current version of the article. My sense is that you are referring to a political controversy. Perhaps a discussion of this controversy could be added as a separate section, assuming it is of sufficient interest for Wikipedia. Jaredroach (talk) 19:54, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

[1] "Bacterial cells transmit memories to offspring" [2] Andre🚐 20:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Expert needed

I've added an expert needed tag on the page. A lot of the article is based upon primary source studies (that probably will not replicate, or have not replicated). Somebody familiar with the relevant reviews would be useful.

Second, transgenerational epigenetic inheritance is extremely controversial in mammals [3][4]. I don't think this article highlights that very well. I will try to incorporate this more clearly in the article later, but would appreciate the input from somebody with more expertise in the topic. Zenomonoz (talk) 13:24, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Am not an expert, but my read of reviews such as [5] Increasing evidence indicates that non-DNA sequence-based epigenetic information can be inherited across several generations in organisms ranging from yeast to plants to humans. This raises the possibility of heritable ‘epimutations’ contributing to heritable phenotypic variation and thus to evolution. Recent work has shed light on both the signals that underpin these epimutations, including DNA methylation, histone modifications and non-coding RNAs, and the mechanisms by which they are transmitted across generations at the molecular level. These mechanisms can vary greatly among species and have a more limited effect in mammals than in plants and other animal species. Nevertheless, common principles are emerging, with transmission occurring either via direct replicative mechanisms or indirect reconstruction of the signal in subsequent generations. this is new research to be sure, but reputable research finds that it does occur. Andre🚐 13:28, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes I am aware of that review. That type of statement is exactly why this needs expert attention, because nothing has yet demonstrated anything close to causality.

Bird (2024): the evidence for many potentially important forms of environmentally induced epigenetic inheritance remains inconclusive.

The only study that has come remotely close to "looking" like transgenerational epigenetic inheritance is Takahashi's (2022) mice study, but recent critiques and research have raised serious doubts about it [6][7][8]. Anyway, given the lack of edits on this article, perhaps my knowledge is sufficient to address a lot of it. Zenomonoz (talk) 13:43, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm sorry, just to be clear, so you're saying that you don't agree with the 2022 review because of a critical perspective and other critiques and research? That sounds like a disagreement among sources and we shouldn't take sides. Andre🚐 21:26, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

It does sound like a disagreement among sources, I agree. Hence, this article needs more expert attention. Zenomonoz (talk) 00:41, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Addendum, the article you cited is more carefully worded in the body, confirming that epigenetic inheritance in mammals is controversial and correlational: While such comprehensive evidence remains scarce with regards to mammalian TEI (transgenerational epigenetic inheritance), correlational studies continue to raise the possibility of an epigenetic component in several inherited phenotypes. They speculate it will likely be demonstrated eventually. So there is perhaps not a huge disagreement in sources. Zenomonoz (talk) 00:47, 5 January 2025 (UTC)