Talk:Rush Limbaugh

Larry, How do you state something like 'One thing causing contention is the difficulty many critics have discussing political issues objectively and not taking critical analysis of their favorite causes as a personal attack.'

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I'm not sure we even want to say that. The critics, of course, will strongly disagree with the description of Rush's analysis as "objective." More importantly, you are insulting the critics. The critics certainly don't think they are reacting to a personal attack; they think they are refuting Rush using cold logic and obvious truths. You and I might or might not disagree with that, but the interests of polite discourse (even if it's discourse about impolite discourse) requires that we refrain from psychologizing about the shortcomings of critics.

The comment you make would be better placed in an article about the psychology and rhetoric of political discourse--which, I'm just guessing, is a topic on which none of us is actually expert enough to write anything worth reading. --Larry Sanger

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I guess I should have added something about the rebuttal not being based on logic and using one or more unproven cliches.

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Personally, I don't think that would do the trick either. Please see neutral point of view. --LMS

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Someone put this link on the first page...it deserves to be on the talk page.

Anti-conservative web sites:

• http://www.bartcop.com

Actually, I'd say anti-Rush (not anti-conservative) websites would be perfectly appropriate for Rush Limbaugh. Anti-conservative websites would be appropriate for political conservatism, just as anti-liberal websites would be appropriate for political liberalism.

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Are there any conservative, anti-Limbaugh websites?

Don't know, but there are plenty of anti-Limbaugh conservatives (me for one). - ZSpinal 04:05, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

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From the article:

His harshest critics can see that he is an excellent broadcaster.

This needs clarification to stand. --Robert Merkel 05:53 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)

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In 1992, President George Bush made an appearance on Limbaugh's show as part of his re-election campaign.

Is there documentation for this somewhere? Beyond this needing more specificity (that it was George H. W. Bush and not George W. Bush), it would probably be more informative to note that while Rush's show is not based on guests (such as many talk shows), a number of notable political guests have appeared on his show, such as ... — Daniel Quinlan 05:39, Aug 25, 2003 (UTC)

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Daniel, what's wrong with adding Bill Hicks' take on Limbaugh? [1] Many people find Limbaugh a deeply disturbing character and are suspicious of his personality. That's why I found the Bill Hicks stuff appropriate. Did I disrespect any of the Wikipedia rules? If so, then take it off by all means, but if not please re-revert. pir

Bill Hicks said a lot of things about famous people intended to provoke. I don't think that makes it appropriate content for an encyclopedia article. Not to mention that the content is just plain inappropriate and highly-charged POV. It's also not even factual or based in fact, it's a fantasy (involving sexual urination and defecation with other Republicans, no less) drawn out of Bill Hicks' imagination. I could find similar insulting fantasies about any number of political figures, I can't believe you're claiming that they're appropriate for this Wikipedia article. Daniel Quinlan 16:12, Sep 9, 2003 (EDT)

P.S. Please put new comments at the bottom of the talk article.

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User:Zotz writes in a comment: I hope we never have to review his mockery of AIDS victims: presumably his drug abuse was oral, not intravenous.

I somehow doubt you really feel that way. Just the same, when did Rush Limbaugh mock AIDS victims? I know he has questioned aspects of the AIDS movement and I can provide quotes about that, but I'm sure you would prefer to focus the article on controversy and anything resembling hypocrisy.

Daniel Quinlan 03:26, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Doubt if you wish, I know enough from personal experience with AIDS victims that I very, very sincerely would not wish the disease on the worst human imaginable. Rush's mockery of AIDS victims through his AIDS updates is one of the most disgusting things in his history: his mockery of AIDS victims is one of the reasons his first foray into television failed: After that mockery,his studio audience had to be removed before taping could continue. I sincerely hope that Rush's drug addiction causes him to become more tolerant of other's shortcomings. His past history suggests this is a forlorn hope. BUT personally, I wish him no ill: the AIDS victims he mocked will not be benefited by any ill he suffers. -- Zotz 03:36, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

It really does sound like you are happy about Rush having a drug problem and it seemed as though you wished he had AIDS. Nevertheless, I'm unaware of Rush ever mocking the victims of AIDS. He has talked some about the AIDS movement and how the media covers AIDS. Could you please provide a source with a good quote or a transcript? Daniel Quinlan 04:07, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

No, I have no such transcript. The first place for you track it down would be his first foray into television: it was nauseating. That Rush used "I Know I'll Never Love This Way Again" as his AIDS update theme really should require no additional comment. -- Zotz 04:15, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Addendum: additionally, I sincerely hope that Rush finds a solution that renders him pain free, and that he finds a physician who can provide him freedom from pain with no untoward drug effects. As sincerely, I hope that he learns that the fact that people do irrational things that harm them does not make them worthless people. -- Zotz 04:09, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

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" a system where Rush could seem to be normally conversing with callers." What was the system exactly? Kingturtle 03:48, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

as far as I know, he's never revealed the details, but apparently there was a tape delay system whereby a screener could convey the essence of a caller's comments via computer screen to Rush (where Rush could read it), who would appear to answer the computerized communication as though it were auditory. --Zotz 03:52, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

My guess is that it was a combination of some sort of private closed-captioning (a fast typist/stenographer) combined with a short tape delay (and maybe some sort of hand-signaling so Rush could begin talking during a natural pause). Broadcasters generally use a tape delay of 3-5 seconds so profanity can be bleeped (I think it's normal to delay both the broadcaster and the caller), so delaying just the caller's audio would be trivial. Anyway, I heard the show during this period and sometimes there was a longer-than-usual (for Rush) pause between the caller finishing a thought and his response. I don't know if he ever said anything specific about the system, though. Daniel Quinlan 03:58, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Any court reporter/stenographer worth his/her pay could easily transcribe callers' speech quickly enough to allow Limbaugh plenty of time to read and respond to it. - ZSpinal 04:05, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

But apparently not perfectly enough to be seamless. The strategem was readily apparent to any attentive listener, though it was only admitted to post facto. -- Zotz 04:19, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Strategem:

1. A military maneuver designed to deceive or surprise an enemy.
2. A clever, often underhanded scheme for achieving an objective.

Please read about Wikipedia's policy of presenting a neutral point of view. Attempting to characterize that Limbaugh views his listeners as an enemy, hiding heading loss as underhanded, etc. does not even come close. If you feel the need to editorialize, Wikipedia is not the right place. Daniel Quinlan 06:32, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Thus, I have not changed "seem to converse" to "deceptively created the illusion of conversing with" to describe his deceiving, underhanded scheme... He knowingly lied to his listeners about his hearing loss. Any neutral observer would recognize that. -- Zotz 06:37, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

It's not what you haven't done, but that you have continually added the invective to (at least) this article. Daniel Quinlan 06:54, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Calling a lie a lie is not invective. -- Zotz 07:02, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Anyhow, I thought it would be useful to point out how the system was not 100% perfect (as I pointed out earlier in this thread), so I added some text to that effect. It wasn't necessary to pitch the addition one way or the other. Daniel Quinlan 06:54, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

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Okay, I'm done playing games for tonight. If Zotz adds his invective again to push his personal views, can someone please evaluate it vs. my last version. Thanks. Daniel Quinlan 07:06, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

The personal view that Rush lied about his hearing loss to his listeners??? It's cold, hard fact. Please also take into account that implying that lying about being able to hear (when you cannot) facilitates communication is disingenuous. -- Zotz 07:09, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I added this to my version: "Some critics of Rush contend that this episode and his month-long concealment of his deafness constitutes a lie. Most listeners of Rush do not feel that way." I think it's trite and unnecessary, but you are a critic and you seem to believe Rush needs to be declared a liar in his Wikipedia article, so it's true that some critics feel that way. That's as far as I can go to compromise with your invective. Daniel Quinlan 07:13, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Well, I think it's self-evident that "this episode and his month-long concealment of his deafness constitutes a deception, and I would have hoped that even Rush's most uncritical fans would recognize this as well. -- Zotz 07:21, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Very well. I tried to compromise and now I regret it since not only is my compromise included, but your charged invective. I renew my request for other people to review the paragraph in question. Good night. For what it's worth, I'm not a "fan", just a occasional listener, usually when driving in the morning (the only station on the FM band that I can stand is NPR). Daniel Quinlan 07:26, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

I'm all for removing the debate over whether it's a "lie", as long as it's recognized as a deception. In fact, I'll do it now. I enjoy listening to Rush as well, but truth is truth. (P.S. it really is "progressive" hearing loss, not "progressing". -- Zotz 07:32, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I happen to be very critical of Limbaugh and I'm not a fan at all. However the above phrase quoted by Zotz is POV and therefore not allowed here. Who says this? If you can find a good cite, then say "such and such said....", otherwise it is out. --mav 07:28, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Mav, To which phrase do you allude? -- Zotz 07:32, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

The one about the "lie" that you just deleted. Much better now. --mav

Ah, that was Daniel Quinlan's phrase, not mine. -- Zotz 07:35, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC) Oh, maybe you knew that already. Nevermind<G> -- Zotz 07:36, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Neutral text

From the village pump

I don't think this quite rises to the level of problem of an NPOV dispute or an edit war, but I'd like someone (or multiple someones) to look at the following two paragraphs from Rush Limbaugh (initially, without looking at the edit history and discussion) and take a gander at which is more successful at being neutral.

In September 2001, Limbaugh denied suggestions that his voice and diction had changed. However, on October 8, 2001, he admitted that the changes in his voice were due to complete deafness in his left ear and substantial hearing loss in his right ear. Rush also revealed that his radio staff was aiding him in concealing his rapidly progressing hearing loss and subsequent deafness by setting up a system where Rush could maintain a conversation with callers. Some listeners could discern the change, especially after Rush was unable to hear callers, sometimes a longer delay between a caller ending his point and Limbaugh responding, and sometimes he would seem to accidentally talk over a caller. Some critics of Rush contend that this episode and his month-long concealment of his deafness constitutes a lie. Most listeners of Rush do not feel that way.

By September 2001, Limbaugh's listeners had noted changes in his voice and diction, changes that Limbaugh initially denied. However, on October 8, 2001, he reversed himself, admitting that the changes in his voice were due to complete deafness in his left ear and substantial hearing loss in his right ear. Rush also revealed that his radio staff was aiding him in concealing his rapidly progressing hearing loss by setting up a system where Rush could appear to hear his callers. The system worked remarkably well, but did not deceive all listeners, some of whom noted a long delay between a caller ending his point and Limbaugh responding, and Rush occasionally speaking over a caller. Some critics of Rush contend that this episode and his month-long concealment of his deafness constitutes a lie. Most listeners of Rush do not feel that way.

Thanks. Daniel Quinlan 07:21, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, it would be especially helpful if someone who heard Rush during this period of pretending to be able to hear voiced their comments! -- Zotz 07:24, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Huh. Neither is egregious, I'll state that right off... it's tricky. At first, I was leaning towards the second one, but 'Limbaugh's listeners had noted' set off a bell in my head. I'd say the first is more accurate, but I think I'd have written it slightly differently from either... and I'd think the page would be busy telling different versions of the controversy surrounding his admitting his painkiller addiction now to worry about old disputes... interesting. -- Jake 07:32, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Personally I think either should be acceptable to any fairminded person. I can not imagine what the bone of contention could be. Very slightly think the second one is less weasel-wordy; but anyone seriously and actively objecting to the first one is way too picky. -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen 09:20, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

I think the goal is to aim for neutrality, not perfect negativity. Should Wikipedia pitch things as negatively as possible?

"by setting up a strategem where Rush could deceptively seem to be normally conversing with callers."

"he and his radio staff had systematically deceived his listeners"

and so on

Anyway, I'm fed up with people who join Wikipedia with little more than an axe to grind. To inveigh that reluctance of a radio host, someone who relies on sound, to reveal hearing loss is a "systematic deception" or a "strategem" (look it up) — that is neutral? Daniel Quinlan 09:52, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

To imply that what Rush did (set up a system whereby he and his staff could fool his listeners into thinking he could hear them), after having told them their concerns about his voice were completely unfounded, is reluctance to reveal hearing loss, rather than a lie about having lost his hearing, is to be completely uncritical. -- Zotz 10:05, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I agree that both will do... my immediate (and usual) response is look at the "Some critics of .... say that...." line and say Who are these critics?? We should name them. The 'pedia is chock full of examples of this "Some critics.." line... often (not sure if it is the case here) because someone has thought oh no we have no criticism of X, better put some in else the article isn't NPOV. This line is present in both versions of the article. Pete 09:43, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Just wanted to add that I wrote the above 'blind' as requested. I have not read the article or its talk page (yet). Pete 09:47, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I don't know which one is best, weird that a persons handicap can become a political issue. But the use of his forname, Rush, seems wrong. In many cultures and so also in the American I guess, using someone's firstname implies a friendly relation to that person. For example, it would be extremely awkward if in the articles about the Bush presidents they were referred to as "George". Same applied to Rush Limbaugh I think. BL 13:46, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

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Thec following text was false:

"During a segment on Bill Clinton's cat he mentioned that there was also a White House dog, then displayed a picture of Chelsea Clinton."

Here is a partial transcript from lexis nexis as to what really happened:

(Rush was doing a segment about the In/Out lists that were coming out in magazines, newspapers by the dozens at the time. Rush was trying to demonstrate the bias of these lists.): Copyright 1992 Multimedia Entertainment, Inc. RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW: RUSH LIMBAUGH (9:00 PM ET) November 6, 1992, Friday 11:15 AM

LIMBAUGH: Thank you. This show's era of dominant influence is just beginning. We are now the sole voice of sanity, the sole voice of reason. We are the sole voice of opposition on all television. This is the only place you can tune to to get the truth of the opposition of the one-party dictatorial government that now will soon run America. Oh, I mean, we are only beginning to enjoy dominance and prosperity. Most of these things on the in-out list are not even funny, but a couple of them--one of them in particular is.

David Hinckley of--of the New York Daily News wrote this, and what he has--he's got--it's very strange. He says, In: A cute kid in the White House. Out: Cute dog in the White House.' Could--could we see the cute kid? Let's take a look at--see who is the cute kid in the White House. (A picture is shown of Millie the dog)

LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) No, no, no. That's not the kid.

(Picture shown of Chelsea Clinton)

LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) That's--that's the kid. We're trying to...

— User:172.156.81.197

Limbaugh later apologized, in person and in private, to Hillary Clinton, about even mentioning Chelsea on his show. She told the story herself:

Mr. Limbaugh's apology, it turned out, was for talking about Mrs. Clinton's daughter, Chelsea, on his show. She accepted. [2]

Daniel Quinlan 08:59, Oct 16, 2003 (UTC)

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I added "left-wing" as a descriptive for FAIR after someone else removed "liberal". After thinking about it, "left-wing" seemed more accurate in their case.

http://www.fair.org/whats-fair.html

Jeff Cohen, the founder of FAIR, is a liberal commentator on the news. Formerly, he was a regular panelist (one of the two liberals, not one of the two conservatives) on Fox News Channel's News Watch. He has served as the co-host of CNN's Crossfire (on the left, not the right).

Daniel Quinlan 08:59, Oct 16, 2003 (UTC)

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Since the article now contains a section devoted to his detractors' responses to the drug controversy, it should also include facts relating to his followers' responses, in, of course, an appropriately NPOV voice.

The article is now dominated by two negative controversies, incidents which are very recent, which means they will become stale very quickly in an encyclopedia. In order to document Limbaugh's story more fully, and thus more accurately, these ought to be balanced with historical biography which details his place in popular culture, his influence on politics, and his professional success (e.g., I am double-checking the existence of an unprecedented $300 million contract). The ESPN and drug incidents (which I will not edit for the moment) are negative when viewed from the left POV but not necessarily the right, and they promise to become footnotes to the Limbaugh story very quickly. Rather than jumping right in and contributing material, however, I intend to spur discussion, do some research, give it some time, and revisit the page with some work.

In closing, we had all better do some thinking about allowing sensational, ratings-driven news stories to dominate an encyclopedia. Encyclopedic writing should strive to place such news in historical context, even if this requires giving it very little space. If we are being honest about striving for NPOV, we should each ask, "Who else's drug problems am I rushing to document?" and "What neutral or positive stories about Rush Limbaugh have I made a point to document?" (by Paul Klenk, October 17, 2003)

Hope you don't mind I moved this conversation down to the bottom of the talk page, as it is the convention in Wikipedia. You point is well taken, and is a concern for both the Bill O'Reilly (commentator) and Ann Coulter pages where negative comments dominate.

However, I would take issue with you on the two incidents being "sensational" and merely "footnotes to the Limbaugh story." For one, Limbaugh could be credited with being controversial but he stayed within his relatively well-defined circle of listeners -- talk radio in the non-urban America. But with the ESPN gig, he crossed over into the mainstream and onto the number one national sports network with the number one spectator sport in the US. That cuts across social, geographic and economic lines, so any analysis of an incident on that high profile a stage cannot be fairly characterized as "sensational."

As for the oxycontin incident, there is a reasonable debate about whether it contributed to his hearing loss and it has started a serious reassessment in the US about its use and abuse. So while perhaps it can be downplayed a bit, it doesn't seem the inclusion of these two points constitutes what Limbaugh himself might call an unfair conspiracy against him. Just think if you were writing an obituary of him in ten or so years, you would most certainly mention these points, no? Fuzheado 00:02, 18 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Fuz, points well taken. However, the detail and amount of space devoted to these two topics is disproportionate to rest of the content in the article. Thanks for your response. (by Paul Klenk, October 17, 2003)

The ESPN section seems a pretty fair characterization, with perhaps the Al Sharpton viewpoint a bit odd. However, I agree the drug issue is overblown, with too many quotes simply taking blatant digs at Limbaugh. Fuzheado 10:16, 18 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Rush as a drug addict and hypocrite

Rush is not to blame for his initial addiction, since it was connected with back pain, however, once you become an addict you seek out the drugs because you like the high it gives you. I remember Rush referring to Clinton and then making a sucking sound like taking a hit on a joint. The purpose of this was of course to ridicule Clinton. Bear in mind however that he was probably stoned to the gills himself. Rush can say anything he wants, this is America. However when he had already been through treatment two other times, and chose to continue using narcotics, I would say this makes him quite the hypocrite. What else has he done that we don't know about? -- User:208.48.4.215

I'm just happy he lost all that weight. Otherwise, the compulsion to add "Rush put the hippo back into hypocrite would be obsessional. -- Zotz 08:19, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Wow, obsessed Rush-hater might be the right word. Since you bring up Clinton, when confronted about his drug use, Limbaugh at least didn't claim that he "never inhaled" or the equivalent (which is also the source of the sucking sound joke, I suspect). He also didn't joke about his own drug use (with a quip like "although I wish I did", that might be a slight misquote). No lawyerly equivocation either ("is", "sexual relations", and so on).

On a more serious note, after hurting my back exercising last year (strain near my spine), I have a new profound understanding for back pain. It's hard to describe how intense and debilitating it is. I was basically flat on my back (on the floor, no less, for two days). Every movement caused shooting pain. I was back exercising 10 days later, but I hate to think what it would be like having serious back pain every day. Daniel Quinlan 11:46, Oct 23, 2003 (UTC)

Equally seriously, analgesic abuse may start with the use of analgesics for pain, but the escalation of dosage is in pursuit of a "high", a sensation of euphoria, not in pursuit of pain relief. Lots of people with back pain, and with other forms of pain equally severe, but fortunate enough not to have a predeliction to be addicted, manage not to become abuse their medication, and do not manifest drug-seeking behaviour. -- Zotz 03:34, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Chelsea/dog comment

The Chelsea/dog thing is still in the article. Is there a reason for this? The transcript above seems to establish that it is false.—Eloquence 04:10, Oct 24, 2003 (UTC)

Nobody seemed to get around to removing it, so I just did.

An example of a real attack on Chelsea happened during Saturday Night Live, which does a lot of political satire, during a Wayne's World segment and has since been edited out of replayed episodes. I'm not suggesting we add it to any of those articles, though. Daniel Quinlan 18:22, Oct 24, 2003 (UTC)

The attack on Chelsea Clinton was factual; Rush blamed it on a technician. The "transcript" which has been floating around is spurious. The idea that he'd devote any time on the show to calling Chelsea a "cute kid" is a dead giveaway. ~ Ouroboros

No, the attack on Chelsea was NOT factual. Yes, Rush did blame it on some behind the scenes tech (for whom apparently, was not his first on screen mistake), and I believe the guy was fired. The transcript is NOT spurious. It has been archived on Lexis-Nexis since somewhere around the early-mid 90's. And I was an eyewitness to the show. It was only a couple months old at the time, and the transcript is word for word accurate. He was not devoting any time on the show calling chelsea a "cute kid". He was devoting time doing a segment on in/out lists. That's what the one of in/out articles he was reading from called her.

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Following material moved from Wikipedia:Peer review by Wapcaplet 23:04, 5 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Neutral text

I don't think this quite rises to the level of problem of an NPOV dispute or an edit war, but I'd like someone (or multiple someones) to look at the following two paragraphs from Rush Limbaugh (initially, without looking at the edit history and discussion) and take a gander at which is more successful at being neutral.

In September 2001, Limbaugh denied suggestions that his voice and diction had changed. However, on October 8, 2001, he admitted that the changes in his voice were due to complete deafness in his left ear and substantial hearing loss in his right ear. Rush also revealed that his radio staff was aiding him in concealing his rapidly progressing hearing loss and subsequent deafness by setting up a system where Rush could maintain a conversation with callers. Some listeners could discern the change, especially after Rush was unable to hear callers, sometimes a longer delay between a caller ending his point and Limbaugh responding, and sometimes he would seem to accidentally talk over a caller. Some critics of Rush contend that this episode and his month-long concealment of his deafness constitutes a lie. Most listeners of Rush do not feel that way.

By September 2001, Limbaugh's listeners had noted changes in his voice and diction, changes that Limbaugh initially denied. However, on October 8, 2001, he reversed himself, admitting that the changes in his voice were due to complete deafness in his left ear and substantial hearing loss in his right ear. Rush also revealed that his radio staff was aiding him in concealing his rapidly progressing hearing loss by setting up a system where Rush could appear to hear his callers. The system worked remarkably well, but did not deceive all listeners, some of whom noted a long delay between a caller ending his point and Limbaugh responding, and Rush occasionally speaking over a caller. Some critics of Rush contend that this episode and his month-long concealment of his deafness constitutes a lie. Most listeners of Rush do not feel that way.

Thanks. Daniel Quinlan 07:21, Oct 11, 2003 (UTC)

The first two sentences (of either version) are fine. From my scarcely-know-who-this-man-is perspective, everything after that is so vanishingly trivial as to no be worth keeping. -- Finlay McWalter 00:00, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The first one is more NPOV. I would disagree with Finlay McWalter that the material should in fact be kept. Wiki is not paper. -Smack 03:11, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

"I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh any more. He's too liberal." - Overheard by someone. :)

End of moved material

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Dan's Bake Sale

There needs to be some discussion of this, as it's a pretty big event that in my opinion really helped put Rush on the map. Unfortunately my memory of it isn't particularly good, so I couldn't write anything on it.

Category:Propaganda

In response to the inclusion of Michael Moore in the Propaganda category, I added the same category tag to this article. It was reverted. Appropriate use of the category is being discussed at Category talk:Propaganda. JamesMLane 00:28, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Rush Limbaugh is a conservative, not necessarily a republican

I reverted back to Merovingian's edits. The latest edit describes Rush as a republican. Limbaugh has always said that his nature is of a conservative, and he disagrees with the RNC on numerous issues. --G3pro 02:57, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

A nitpick...

At the beginning of the article, Limbaugh is described as "right wing." Personally, I *never* use the terms "liberal" and "left wing" interchangably, nor do I hold "conservative" and "right wing" as being synonymous. In my opinion liberals and conservatives are both generally in touch with the views of their cultures' political moderates. Calling someone left wing or right wing pegs them as an extremist, and to label Rush Limbaugh as right wing is not using a neutral viewpoint in desribing him.

In short, I think that "right wing" should be changed to "conservative" in this article. There are other points that liberals and conservatives could argue about all day, but on the whole the article is farily neutral in my opinion. Thoughts?

TJSwoboda 20:56, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

NAALCP

Is this neutral point of view?

'..."National Association for the Advancement of LAZY Colored People." This slur, not unlike those against black NFL quarterback Donovan McNabb among others, fuels the fire for Rush’s detractors to argue that Rush’s political and ideological point of view, and that of most neo-conservatives in general, is essentially race-based.'

How is it a "slur", "race-based"? Cannot "non-colored" people be lazy? If anything, this statement makes it a "race-based" "slur". RL 23:02, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here, could you clarify a bit more? If you are saying that NAALCP should not be referred to as a slur, since that betrays a certain point of view, you may have a point, but I think that clearly the term is being used in a disparaging manner. Slur may indeed be too strong a word, and perhaps we could replace it with something else. Is that what you are talking about? --Cvaneg 23:15, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Precisely. However, it is only disparaging to the NAACP or lazy people, not all "colored" people. RL 23:30, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Ah, I see what you are saying now. I think that's the reason the authors included the part about Donovan McNabb, it better illustrates that detractors feel that it is not an isolated comment, but rather an indication of an overall philosophy on race. Incidentally this section is in general very hard to judge as it deals with the point of view of Rush's critics, so even if it is unfair, it may very well be true from their viewpoint. The question that has to be answered is whether or not the information it provides, that of perception of Rush by his detractors as at least a bit of a racist, taints the entire article, or if it is a widely enough held belief that it deserves some mention. --Cvaneg 00:03, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Public Opinion

I reworked Ted-m's new "Public Opinion" section. First of all, I couldn't see keeping this as a separate section: "Public Opinion" describes much of the content of this article, and there wasn't enough content in this paragraph to merit a separate Level 2 section. Secondly, the sentence about Rush Limbaugh having a lot of detractors from the left seemed pretty redundant. Once I made those changes, I reworded what was left to better fit into the end of the "Overview" section. — DLJessup 00:39, 2004 Dec 20 (UTC)

Order of topics

I think it is only fair for any entry in wikipedia to open with the biography portion of the article. Each article needs to start with the factual information, and then it can jump into the controversial areas. It is not fair to anyone if you do the opposite. -- (unsigned contribution by Goodness0001 12:39, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Well, to begin with, there shouldn't be an "Overview" section. Any Wikipedia article should have one to three paragraphs of text before the first section title to serve as an introduction. The most obvious solution would be to simply remove the "Overview" section title. The problem with this is that the "Overview" really isn't; it's just a set of facts that should be distributed elsewhere in the article.

Since this article is about a person, the whole thing is a biographical article. The "Biography" section title should be eliminated and all its subsections raised a level.

Finally, the various controversy sections should be subsections of a "Controversy" section. — DLJessup 13:36, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, I just made the changes I just described. The "Talk radio and television career" section needs to be reorganized so that it flows, but it needed that even before my changes. — DLJessup 13:57, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

His picture

Why is there a picture of him smoking with thick smoke surrounding him? It seems very negative of him. Either negative or very "cinematic". (I'm not american, am I missing something? Is there something about him and heavy smoking or something like that?)

• I imagine it's somewhat symbolic, that he'd certainly be in favor of the right to smoke a cigar in any public place and strongly against any attempts to legislate that right away. (just a guess on my part). Gzuckier 15:27, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Oklahoma City bombing

I'm not sure why the followinf was cut out

Shortly after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, President Bill Clinton criticized some radio talk show hosts, "They spread hate. They leave the impression that, by their very words, that violence is acceptable." Clinton did not mention anyone my name and later singled out another conservative radio host G. Gordon Liddy (who had told his listeners to shoot federal ATF officers in the head rather than the chest because they wear bullet proof vest), but many people felt that the target of Clinton's criticism was actaully Limbaugh who was by far the most recognized conservative voice on the radio.

I did not originate this part of the article but I did expand it and make it more accurate. If no one has a reason for taking it out, I'm putting it back in.

I believe the criticism was that the connection was terribly tenuous, and therefore not terribly encyclopedic. If this can be sourced and attributed to Clinton (or another prominent figure) then we could probably include it. --CVaneg 15:47, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Clinton quote is from his address to the Association of Community Colleges on April 24, 1995. http://www.clintonfoundation.org/legacy/042495-remarks-by-president-to-association-of-community-colleges.htm

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I believe the quote was made, what I'm not sure about (and probably what the original editor thought) was that the link between that statement and Limbaugh was not an appropriate one to make without more substantive evidence. -- CVaneg 19:44, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure that the quote was directed at Limbaugh. But it was perceived that way (as any google search will verify). But the intent of that passage seemed to be to discuss the reaction to the quote and how it was perceived rather than it's intent. When I rewrote that passage I tried to make it even clearer that Clinton did not mention Limbaugh by name and that he could have just as easily have been refering to someone else (probably Liddy.) And even though I don't know that Clinton was trying to refer to Limbaugh, Clinton did paint with a pretty broad brush when he criticize radio talk show host in general. Limbaugh may not have been the target, but you can't fire a shot at radio talk show host and not hit the biggest one in the business. Therefore, I think it was on topic.

Pictures

It seems to me that the two pictures of Mr. Limbaugh presented on this page are somewhat unflattering. His facial expression in both the main picture at the top of the page and the Time magazine cover imply, for lack of better words, "meaness" and "hatred." They do not present a neutral picture (pardon the pun) of his demeanor.

Perhaps one of the following pictures (which are neither unflattering nor PR pieces) would be more appropriate.

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/nfl/2000/0523/photo/a_rush.jpg http://www.wvnn.com/images/host_rush_limbaugh.jpg http://englishcomposition.com/RUSHLI.gif http://www.badeagle.com/journal/archives/RushL.jpg http://www.illinoisleader.com/photo/img/f307/SZ300_MRC9-RushStandingO.jpg

I like the smoking pic which is on the page, but I agree an additional picture which shows a different demenor would be as good addition.

Bo Snerdly?

does anybody have proof that there isn't a Bo Snerdly? There are two seperate days on the radio that contradict each other.

The first day which I trust much less is when he explained where Bo Snerdly came from. In which Rush claims that Bo Snerdly is a figment of his imagination. He is a person that always plays devils advocate, and allows Rush to point out the opposition to his point of view and then explain it.

The second day which I trust much more is when Rush got really mad at a caller and stormed away from the mic. A man with a deap voice, sounded African American, said "This is Snerdly and we will be right back.". (or something to that extent) However to give credability to this argument, in the past I have also heard Rush say that Snerdly was on meet the nation. In addition on April 192005 Rush commented about how snerdly flew off the hook at a person because the person on the other end of the line implied that the show used talking points.

Either way like many of Rush's staff which have nicknames like "Co Co" the webmaster. Snerdly is probably just a made up name for a real person to protect the identity of this person. So I beleive the person that Snerdly represents is real however I do not beleive that, that is the persons real name.

--Nick Berardi 13:36, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"Bo Snerdly" is a nickname for Rush's longtime assistant and call screener, James Golden, which Rush dubbed him with in the show's early days. Golden left for a while to host and produce an Internet radio station (which apparently went bust duing the "dot com" crash), occassionally appearing as a caller in the interim, but has been back for a long time. Early in the show there were other ethnic Snerdlies, including, I think, Wo Fat Snerdly or something to that effect, maybe Wu Tang Snerdley; whoever was call screening that day was "Snerdly", but this was dropped years ago. Rlquall 01:17, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Limbaugh's mention of Wikipedia?

I noted that someone added that Limbaugh mentioned Wikipedia yesterday (19 April) on his show, calling it some "liberal internet encyclopedia thingy."

In which context did he mention Wikipedia?

JRo - 20 April 2005

It was in response to Wikipedia covering the pope. Check out The Rush Limbaugh Show.

On April 22, 2005, Rush retracted his comment about Wikipedia being liberal, blaming his staff for the comment, which he said had been whispered in his ear (presumably over his headphones). Rlquall 01:20, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Why is there a separate The Rush Limbaugh Show article?

I don't see a justification for the split-off of material from this article to a Rush Limbaugh show article. The vast majority of the Rush Limbaugh show article consists of the section "Jargon". But the Jargon given there is not exclusive to Limbaugh's radio show; it has been used in his books and in his television show and in his speeches. Therefore, I would return that section to this article. The remaining two sections consist of the section titles, two subsection titles, and a single sentence, which barely qualifies as a stub.

Moreover, Rush Limbaugh and The Rush Limbaugh Show are entwined to a very high degree: the show is most of what makes Rush encyclopedia-worthy and Rush is 90% of the content of the show, especially now that Paul Shanklin's parodies get far more play on the 24/7 website.

Therefore, I propose that The Rush Limbaugh Show be remerged with this article and "The Rush Limbaugh Show" become a redirect to this page. — DLJessup 23:47, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Rush Limbaugh Show is the source of all jargon, and while he has used it in books and speeches and his television show, I would argue that those are in reality offshoots of his show. The separation of The Rush Limbaugh Show from the original Rush Limbaugh page was intended to separate purely biographical information and previous career records from the show itself. The ideas, facts and nuances of the show indeed warrant a separate article to explain the origins and details of the show. A small relative example: quotes from Bugs Bunny would not be put in Mel Blanc's biographical info, despite the fact that he made them all popular. It would be relegated to pages on Bugs Bunny and/or Merrie Melodies and/or Looney Tunes. EddieH 03:33, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)