Talk:Croissant

Viennese?

Not French, Austrian/Hungarian. ((unsigned, undated))

Well, the other story I heard was that it was created during a siege of Vienna by Ottomans but it would have been way posterior to the French invention... JidGom 11:41 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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"The Croissant is french"

The croissant is not french or hungarian. The original ``croissant`` was made in Romania and they named it ``chifla``. To quote wikipedia: "Alan Davidson, editor of the Oxford Companion to Food states that no printed recipe for the present-day croissant appears in any French recipe book before the early 20th century; the earliest French reference to a croissant he found was among the "fantasy or luxury breads" in Payen's Des substances alimentaires, 1853." ((unsigned, undated))

If this is the case, why is the croissant labelled on the page as "French", and its Vienna origins filed under "Legends"? Shall I fix? ((unsigned, undated))

Do you have evidence that the croissant is Viennese? --Macrakis 16:15, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Well living in Vienna that is certainly the story one hears. Having discussed the concept with a French friend he pointed out that the french word for pastry is Viennoiserie. The word having an obvious relationship with Vienna. ((unsigned, undated))

Not exactly. The French word for pastry is pâtisserie. Viennoiserie designates more specifically the kind of things, such as croissants, that are done in puff pastry, and possibly some other pastries such as brioche. David.Monniaux 13:21, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"Viennoiserie" denotes bread-like products which are richer and sweeter because they include eggs, butter, milk, cream, sugar, etc. (see French wikipedia), unlike normal French bread (in fact, the unqualified word "pain" is legally restricted to bread made with flour, water, yeast, and salt -- no sugar, no milk, etc.). They are yeast-based and often flaky. They include croissant, brioche, pain au chocolat (called chocolat croissant in America), raisin bread, etc. As always, just because they're called "Viennoiserie" doesn't mean that any of them or all of them come from Vienna -- they may have been thought of as Viennese, or inspired by Viennese foods, or simply associated with Viennese style. Compare champignons à la grecque, oeufs florentins, macedoine de fruits, homard a l'americaine, etc. --Macrakis 16:15, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

So the question is now - where is the evidence that the croissant is French?

There is a story in Romania that the croissant was invented in Bucharest because the romanian bakers wanted to make bread,so they spreaded the dough.Someone came in and shouted "the turks are coming!" so they packed it again.The second day the same.And the other day the same. That is how the croissant was invented.

Puff pastry?

I actually believe that the Croissant is not made of puff pastry. The difference is that puff pastry uses only butter layers to generate lift, while Croissants layer the butter into a yeast dough. Again, this is not to be confused with a Brioche which has a high content of butter within a yeast/bread dough, but not incorporated through layering. ((unsigned, undated))

Article corrected in June to mention that it is similar to puff pastry, but with a yeast dough. --Macrakis 16:15, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

"Chifla", this word mean in romanian, "little bread", that is not always too little or not like bread at the taste. So, "chifla" can be: a little bread, a little thing that looks like a little bread but have a sweet taste... just lika a croissant.

Explanation

Am I the only one who thinks this sentence doesn't make sense? Can someone clarify? ... it was invented in Vienna in 1683 to celebrate the defeat of the Turkish siege of the city, as a reference to the crescents on the Turkish flags, when bakers staying up all night heard the tunneling operation and gave the alarm.

The Croissant is far older than the Siege of Vienna!

The tradition of making bakery shaped like the croissant goes further back than the 1600s here in Europe: especially in monestairies in the cities of Europe, monks and nuns has had traditions of making rolls with shapes of animals and symbols to be handed out to the poor and needing. The most well known is the shape today known as the symbol of bakers world wide derived from the way the nuns cross their hands while praying. The croissant is called 'cornetti' in italian, as it is the shape of horns of domestic animals , and as such it is known in northern europe, as symbol of a goat, and then also as the horned devil himself. The shape of the croissant is thus known several centuries before the Siege of Vienna, but the name indicating a crescent moon may have a 'newer' history...

real croissant

That croissant looks like an American croissant, not a real European one. Does someone have a better picture? loulou 15:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

all it claims to be is "a croissant." Therefore i would say it's a fine picture. Philmcl 17:56, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Polish invention to commemorate an AD732 victory at Tours

Now that's a treat. I can testify that Poles had not heard of any Muslim defeat of 732 until some 2 centuries later. There were no Poles at that time (nor Poland for that matter), only a bunch of Slavic tribes ruled by local chieftains, that became gradually incorporated into the political organism ruled by Mieszko I [Mieszko_I_of_Poland], who was baptized with his court in AD966, bringing his land and people into West European circles. Before that the only tangible knowledge of the West for Poles was a taste of German steel. In contrast, it is conceivable that they invented croissants to commemorate a Vienna victory, as it was Polish army led by King Sobieski [John_III_Sobieski%2C_King_of_Poland] who expelled Turks.