Talk:Sonata Arctica

Melodic Metal

The reason I changed it to Melodic metal. While I can agree with anonymous editor that SA is not true Power metal, what it definately is NOT, is Speed Metal. As such I changed the genre "Melodic Speed Metal" into the more general "Melodic Metal". This is the genre Tony himself has claimed the band to be, in several interviews. Also, in the international Sonata fanclub it seems to be the most commonly accepted genre denomination for SA. -- Sneltrekker 22:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm changing the genre to Symphonic power metal now. that's the genre that other wikipedia articles list SA in and it seems exactly the right genre to me. --Nin 20:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't really see much of a symphonic aspect in the music, melodic maybe. Besides, Symphonic power metal just links to the symphonic metal article, which really doesn't fit with them at all. Surely melodic power metal or just power metal are better definitions than symphonic, even if they're not 100% accurate?

Offski 23:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

No objection to power metal here. GammaShade 16:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

While we're here, I changed it to plain ol' power metal. I think "melodic power metal" is redundant, since power metal itself is usually melodic anyway. I only have Ecliptica, but they seem more power than symphonic; should symphonic metal be added to the infobox? Dayn 10:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Changing it to power metal is fair enough but symphonic metal doesn't really seem suitable, even symphonic power metal. Sonata play much more straightforward power metal using only guitar, keyboard, bass and drums. There aren't any orchestrations or orchestral instruments used and the riffs and solos, with the exception of a couple of songs, are not particularly classical-influenced. Feel free to discuss this though because I see it isn't clear-cut. Offski 00:59, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm fine with that. Usually genre discussions try to fit the band into their unique niche, if they're slightly different than the mould. I.e., Sonata Arctica's sound is power metal; their unique power metal sound is Sonata Arctica. If you get my meaning. --Dayn 02:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Power metal, melodic metal, yes. Symphonic metal, not realy but I see where you're coming from. Progressive metal, what? No! Offski 20:02, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, definitely not progressive. If Sonata Arctica got progressive, than nearly all power metal bands should be. --Dayn 02:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I doubt you will find many power metal bands with their chops.--E tac 03:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

That's not really conducive to much... but Stratovarius, Twilightning, DragonForce, et al. Being able to play very well seems to be a given for most metal. --Dane ^~nya 07:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Well mosst power metal bands don't show a lot of complexity besides guitar solos, Sonata Arctica are top notch at every instruent like Dream Theater.--E tac 06:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Except Stratovarius, Twilightning, DragonForce... dunno about many other power metal bands. --Dane ^~nya 08:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Listen to the bass and drums of them and Dream Theater. Sonata use a straightforward fast double bass pedal beat and a simple chord progression style bassline while Dream Theater use bass and drums in the the riffs and melody as much as they use the guitar and keyboard.

As for time signatures, Sonata use 4/4 or 3/4 almost exclusively in virtually all of their songs, look at a Dream Theater tab and you see 9/8s and 5/4s all over the place with a few 7/4s here and a 17/16 there.

Most of Sonata's songs follow a very obvious pattern, e.g. Intro > Verse > Chorus > Verse > Chorus > Solo(s) > Chorus, or something similar. Progressive songs are generally all over the place

During the verse and/or chorus ove most of their songs, Sonata simply use guitar and keyboards as rhythm instruments, whereas Dream Theater have at least one riff going on all the time.

Some of their songs I would consider progressive power metal like Power of One, The Boy..., White Pearl Black Oceans, but apart from those few there is not enough prog in the songs to consider them a progressive metal band, most of their songs have little to no progressive elements. However, Reckoning Night was noticeably more prog than the rest of the albums, and it seems Unia will be even more so. If this is the case then perhaps progressive metal could be mentioned at some point, perhaps in regard to "later works" or something. Offski 12:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Genre Discussion, Post-Unia

A conversation's been going on over at the Unia talk page about how the new tracks should be classified, genre-wise. The album on the whole is distinctively more progressive than Sonata's previous works, and I felt that bringing the conversation here could get some more opinions on the matter. Perhaps it could be a powerful enough shift to change Sonata's genre? Anyway, I realize the album has only been released recently, but I and 76.102.117.133, and hopefully others, would appreciate opinions regarding genre as they come in. Thanks very much! GammaShade 03:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Over the Hills and Far Away Cover

Removed this 'cover' song. Here is the explanation, copy-pasted from the FAQ on www.sonataarctica.info:

Did SA really cover Over The Hills And Far Away?

No, KaZaA lies! Same goes for nearly all other songs which aren't mentioned at the official site but nevertheless can be found at one of the filesharing programs. That song that is named "Sonata Arctica - Over The Hills And Far Away" is a cover-version played by Thyrfing (Tony did some backing vocals for Nightwish's Over The Hills And Far Away - cover though). -- Sneltrekker 20:33, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Lyrics

Should this page have links to the various lyrics of all the songs? Or maybe put the links to the lyrics on the album pages? If this is accepted as a good idea I will go ahead and do it, just don't want to ruin any page ;)
The PA 19:56, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Don't put the full lyrics on Wikipadia, as that would involve violating copyrights. You can however put a link up at this article, that links to all the lyrics. -- SoothingR^(pour) 07:43, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• • Sounds good The PA 19:46, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

The End of This Chapter

I updated the dates for the 2005/06 releases to the best of my knowledge, but couldn't find the release date for The End of This Chapter. "Late August" still works, but if anyone knows the exact date, it'd be much appreciated. GammaShade 23:43, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Reverted

I've reverted these edits. Jens Johansson played solos on Winterheart's but he was a guest musician, not a band member. The genre is somewhat contendable and should probably be discussed here before being changed. Offski 14:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Kotipelto

Timo Kotipelto – Sings in "False News Travel Fast" Can this be verified? There's no mention of it in the album's liner notes. Radagast1983 11:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Well it certainly isn't Tony. Timo has a very distinctive voice and it does sound a lot like him, and Sonata and Stratovarius are qutie close, with touring and together and Jens playing on Winterheart's Guild. A lot of other websites seem to agree as well, although I admit that none of this is definitive proof. Offski 16:36, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe I recall reading this on Sonata's official forums, though I wouldn't be able to find the topic offhand: Tony is singing throughout the song, but the final line ("News travel fast!") is Timo. Of course, if my memory doesn't fail me and the only source is the forums, that's not exactly verifiable. GammaShade 20:13, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Game

I just want to pinpoint that they're cooperating with "Zelian Games" and "Inferi Art" to create a game called "Winterhearts Guild". Link to the original page: http://www.winterheartsguild.com/wg/index.htm Is this worth bringing up in the article? I just want your opinions if this is "worthy" or not. mothos 12:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Second last paragraph in the article. It links to Winterheart's Guild (computer game). --Dayn 12:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

"Big Pooh"

Please stop adding this in, as rap vocals. The official site makes no mention of this, and there are absolutely no online references stating as such. --Dayn 03:23, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Cover songs!

Does anyone want to help me find citations and sources for all these cover songs? For one, I can attest to Helloween's "I Want Out", as it's undoubtedly SA playing, and I can verify Stratovarius' "Black Diamond", as I own the VHS/DVD in question. Does anyone wanna help verify them? --Dane ^~nya 08:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Well I sourced the recorded ones... Looks a bit messy, but I'm not sure what to do. I don't know how to go about verifying the songs played live. --Dane ^~nya 08:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Search YouTube? I've seen them play a bit of "I was Made For Loving You" on one video, there could be more out there. I might have a go later. Offski 09:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Fansite list needs trimming

I believe the fansite list needs trimming, it's becoming into more of a link repository. How shall we determine which fansites are notable enough to warrant inclusion? --Dane ^~nya 08:53, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know Wikipedia's policy on this but I think that fansites aren't really notable at all. Certainly not the foreign languages ones. I would suggest keeping no more than the English and Finnish ones, and probably not all of them. Offski 19:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Aha, hereherehere... Wikipedia talk:External links#Links normally to be avoided, this might help. We could add a directory list to DMOZ, which lists fansites; or we can try and decide which ones are notable; most likely Finnish and English, being an English encyclopaedia, and a Finnish subject. --Dane ^~nya 00:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Trimmedski, all but the English/semi-English sites (no Finnish ones, surprisingly). I'd say go further and keep no more than one, possibly none unless one of them is an official one. Offski 09:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I checked dmoz.com (I think it was) an open directory thing, but there's hardly any mention of any fansites. Well certainly not the first one, seems the page has been hacked... The last one is a DreamThieves thing... The three that are left are the only ones that might be of any value. The .nl site seems to have only what's on the official site... The .it site is pretty much the same, and so is the DreamThieves thing. Perhaps just remove all three, or leave them? I'll try and pretty-up the cover songs part so it's less messy. --Dane ^~nya 10:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Having had a look at the sites, I am going to get rid of them. The official site is kept up to date and everything is on there that can be found on the fansites. If anyone objects, feel free to replace or revert or whatever but I don't think encyclopedic articles are supposed to have any links to unofficial fansites. Offski 22:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)