Talk:The Sopranos

Archives
October 2005 – January 2007

David Chase

I think it should be added to the overview that the season finale, with the screen simply going blank with no real ending was a major disappointment to fans. In addition, the fact that the character Tony did not die or get arrested also left many open story lines with no resolution. While the character Phil Leotardo was killed, and all violence between the New Jersey crew and Phil's family ended with no further killings, the future for Tony, his wife and his children were also by no means clear and decided. The finale definitely fell flat in the same way that the Sienfeld finale fell flat.

As a fan of the show, I felt the ending was solid, while others claim it was a copout. Being part of the buildup, the tension, toward the end made the entire blackout hit the gut, making myself, and all those who were watching, ask ourselves "What the hell?". But then again, it kinda took the perspective of being whacked from behind, as what bobby and tony foreshadowed/reflected. With the audience getting whacked, just like all those others who got whacked, we will never get to see closure.

I think it should be added to the overview that The Sopranos was in fact created by David Chase. Funkyvoltron 15:13, 15 February 2007 (UTC) Be bold.--Opark 77 16:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Done, I added it. Aaron Bowen 07:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Aaron, you cannot say this early that the season finale "was a major disappointment to fans." the episode ended only 1 hour ago! this is only your point of view. of course, I assume that some fans are disappointed and are very angry about this ending. BUT, some fans would consider this a brilliant ending that is fitting for the end of The Sopranos.

Brodog2525 11:06pm EST

Sorry if this is the wrong section to post this. I have the HBO package which has both a westcoast (my time zone) and an eastcoast channel, essentially you can watch whatever programming that would normally air 3 hours later in the westcoast, 3 hours before on the eastcoast channel. I watched the Sopranos finale on both, and I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet, there was two different endings. The show that aired 9pm est, 6pm on the eastcoast HBO channel, the ending is the one everyone's been referring to.. ending with Tony and his family sitting in the restaurant.. screen goes to black. But when they showed the finale on the westcoast channel (airing at 9pm pst) the show ends with Tony playing the Journey song on the mini jukebox, his wife coming in to the restaurant, Tony putting a menu in front of her and then himself.. and then a black screen followed immediately by credits (no long pause like the eastcoast version). Very odd. Anyways.. just thought I'd mention it.

Billy Button 10:25pm PST

References

There has been some vandalism in the references section. See reference 1 The important times of Jesus and Mary. This is suppose to be a reference based on the start date of Season 6 part 2. Kevin 21:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

When will Sason 6, part 2 be available on DVD?

OR Sections removed

I removed the following section which reeks of OR until we can get sources for it. Aaron Bowen 10:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Couldn't find any references for another section (Sun) so I removed it as well.

As well as the three o clock section, the only source doesn't even mention the Sopranos. Aaron Bowen 01:48, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately I can't find sources for the animales section either :( Aaron Bowen 17:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I added another section that's been tagged for awhile :( Aaron Bowen 09:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Eggs

In The Sopranos, eggs foreshadow the occurrence of something unfortunate, generally a loss of life, loss of sanity, or both.

Some examples include: In "Commendatori" Pussy's wife drops a carton of eggs when Pussy comes down stairs and he later kills an acquaintance who spotted him with his FBI handler. In "Long Term Parking", Adriana offers to make Christopher eggs after admitting she has been working with the FBI and she is killed shortly afterwards. In "Watching Too Much Television" Irina offers to make egg salad before Tony beats Zellman with a belt. In "Whoever Did This" Ralph offers to make Tony eggs for breakfast just before Tony murders him. In "Rat Pack" Carmine Lupertazzi suffers a stroke when eating egg salad, Uncle Junior later asks Bobby to make Tony an egg and then calls Tony Blundetto "Tony Egg" by mistake, right before the phone rings and it is announced that Carmine has died. In "The Test Dream" Valentina has her kimono catch on fire from the stove while preparing egg substitutes for Tony and Christopher is shot after his mother offers to make him eggs for breakfast the next morning. Tony Soprano steps in broken eggs just before resolving to murder his cousin, Tony Blundetto, in "All Due Respect". In "Another Toothpick", Bryan Spatafore sends his fellow construction worker into a restaurant where he says that Freddy wants "peppers and eggs", right after this, Mustang Sally beats him into a coma. In the final episode of season five, "All Due Respect", Tony steps in eggs while throwing away a painting of himself as a general with Pie-O-My, which causes him to stop and look at the painting; in the following scene, he murders Tony Blundetto.

Other tenuous examples exist. Richie Aprile offers to make Tony eggs when Tony finds him sleeping in Janice's house. He is shot and killed by Janice at the season's conclusion. AJ offers Carmela a poorly made poached egg in the episode "College"; later Tony kills Fabian Petrullio. Also, before Mikey Palmice is killed in "I Dream of Jeannie Cusamano", Carmela is seen making scrambled eggs. In "The Weight", while Junior and Tony are discussing ordering a hit on Johnny Sack, they watch an episode of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire where the contestant has used up all his lifelines and gets an answer wrong - the answer, "eggs". In "For All Debts Public and Private", Tony and Bobby Baccalieri stop by a diner after Tony gives Chris the address of the man that murdered his father. Tony orders scrambled eggs and tomato slices. Later in the episode, Baccalieri's wife Karen makes Junior eggs after he finds out the nurse in his doctor's office was working for the FBI. Series creator David Chase claimed that all egg-related symbolism was unintentional and purely coincidental in a 2006 interview with the Mark Lawson of the BBC. The frequent occurrence of eggs in The Sopranos is strikingly similar to The Godfather trilogy, in which oranges seem to foreshadow death and violence.

could this be why one of the soundtracks (the second to be released) is called "Pepper & EGGS?!?" I never understood the title, but i guess it makes sense from this perspective. --162.80.36.13 14:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The Sun

In The Sopranos, the sun holds a significance in suicide. Whenever the camera points to the sun, a character in the story either attempts to commit suicide or successfully commits suicide.

An example of this occurrence can be seen in the episode "Nobody Knows Anything", before Makazian commits suicide, the camera pans off to the sun. Another example of this is in the second season in the episode "The Knight in White Satin Armor". Before Irina attempts to kill herself because Tony tries to break off his relationship with her, the camera is again pointed at the sun.

Three o'clock

The time "three o'clock" seems to have some significance. The time was first mentioned in the Season One episode "Meadowlands" when Tony dreams that he sees his mob associates visiting Dr. Melfi's office and she says, "Heshie? He has a three o'clock." In the Season Two episode, "From Where to Eternity," Christopher comes out of a coma thinking he was in hell and gives a message to Tony and Paulie from Brendan Filone and Mikey Palmice: three o'clock. Also in Season Two in the episode "Full Leather Jacket", Tony mentions to Melfi that his appointment is on a Tuesday at 3pm.

In Season Six, Vito calls Silvio at 3:00 AM from a cheap motel room after he realizes that his sexual preference for men has been discovered by New York mob members, in hopes of determining whether the news had yet spread to the Soprano family. Later in the Season Six episode, "The Ride," Paulie wakes up at 3:00 to call his doctor to find out whether or not he has prostate cancer. At the beginning of Season Six when Tony goes into cardiac arrest it can be deduced that the event of his near death occurs at or near 3:00 PM. Prior to the event, Paulie enters the room and the clock shows that it is 2:25. After Tony is resuscitated we get a brief glimpse of the clock and the time is 3:15.

It might also be notable that the time three o'clock in fact holds great significance in Catholicism. It is generally held among many Catholics today, in part due to the various visions and insight of Roman Catholic Augustinian nun Anne Catherine Emmerich, that three o'clock in the afternoon was the time of day that Jesus died.

Animals

Animals are often used as symbolism in the show. Ducks are used in the first season to represent Tony's family. Squirrels are used in the fourth season to represent the changing times. A black bear is used in Season Five to represent Tony himself. In the season one finale a rottweiler is seen barking at Mikey "Grab Bag" Palmice as he is jogging and before he is gunned down on Tony's orders. In Season Three, after Dr. Melfi is raped leaving work, she has a dream in which a rottweiler appears to save her from her attacker. She later realizes the significance of the rottweiler as a descendant of Roman guard dogs, loyal but fierce, relating it to the nationality and nature of Tony, whom she trusts.

Tony has shown a certain fondness for animals that, as Dr. Melfi points out, he does not show towards people, apparently as a form of displaced affection. Tony's depression originally began when the family of ducks left his pool. The race horse Pie-O-My in Season Four brought out Tony's soft side, and the animal's death in a stable fire demanded as bloody a payback as if she had been a member of his family. Tony showed more anger at Christopher when finding out that he had accidentally killed Adriana's dog, Cosette, than when he discovered that Chris was still using drugs. Tony was deeply upset when he found out that his father had given away his childhood dog, Tippy, to his mistress, Fran Felstein.

Television and movie references

Several characters, particularly Tony, are often shown watching movies or TV shows on television. Tony is often seen watching documentaries on The History Channel or noir classics such as James Cagney's The Public Enemy or White Heat. Tony has also been seen watching The Quiet Man starring John Wayne and Rio Bravo starring Dean Martin and John Wayne. The use of certain scenes in these documentaries and movies are used to foreshadow events that are going to happen, or to symbolize the situation that Tony and/or other characters are in. An example of this is Uncle Junior watching a Paths of Glory scene in "Members Only" that had Adolphe Menjou's character (General Broulard) telling Kirk Douglas's character (Colonel Dax) "You've spoiled the keenness of your mind by wallowing in sentimentality... You are an idealist, and I pity you as I would the village idiot." This was used to symbolize the deterioration of Uncle Junior's memory and his relationship with Tony.

Movies are also a source of inspiration for the show. Christopher's obsession with becoming a screenwriter has been a long-running storyline on the show. In the first and second seasons, he wrote a script called "You Bark, I Bite" but struggled to complete it. In season six, he hired former AA sponsor, JT Dolan, to write a script titled "Pork Store Killer" (later renamed "Cleaver"). On occasion, he uses movie references to describe the situation he is in. In addition, Ralph Cifaretto had a fascination with gladiator movies. Ridley Scott's Gladiator (2000), in particular, seems to stimulate Ralph's bravado and he can be heard quoting several lines from the film during the third season. When he quotes "Pride and Honor", Tony hands Ralph his empty glass and says, "Scotch and Soda".

Media theorist Marshall McLuhan serves as an inside joke in "House Arrest", aired in the second season. Junior gets a visit in the hospital from a Michael McLuhan, who is a U.S. Marshal. The nurse asks if his name is really 'Marshal' McLuhan. Junior wonders what the "joke" is.

Clean up

Agree with whomever put the "Clean up needed" tag on the page, this article is pretty bad at the moment. Way too much OR and pointless trivia (the section about the opening, which doesn't name nearly enough of the Jersey landmarks passed does, however, mention it was parodied on "The Simpsons"! WTF??). This should be the goal for the next week, all unsourced crap and random trivia either removed or moved to this talk page until it can be properly used in the article. There is going to be an influx of new hits as the new season starts tommorrow and wikipedia should be presented in the best light. RoyBatty42 19:56, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I put it on there (I think) but believe me it's a lot better than it was I removed the OR sections above and formatted all the refs consistently. We're getting there. Aaron Bowen 13:20, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Malapropisms

This section is unsourced and it should be easy to source just put the episode name in a inline citation after the malapropism. Follow the ref style used in the article please. Aaron Bowen 13:22, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Make sure you have watched the episode recently or have it on hand and are sure of the episode number. Aaron Bowen 13:42, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Airtime

Can someone PLEASE stop changing the original run record. Recently changed from April 9th 2007 to present.

Change it when the Series finale airs in a few months. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ToughLuckMeadow (talk • contribs) 02:43, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

prison break reference

"In the second season episode of Prison Break, entitled "First Down", when one of the escapees, John Abruzzi, is informed of the location of a witness that he plans to kill, he is told "Fish-Head Tony from Jersey is looking to help out," a plain reference to The Sopranos"

-this should be deleted. from the subtitles, the transcripts, and even from the wikipedia on the prison break episode (First Down) it is established that he says Tommy, not Tony. also you can hear it just by listening. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.132.240.130 (talk) 07:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

I concur. Aaron Bowen 11:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

The location of the sopranos house was incorrectly listed as 124 aspen drive -- I changed it to 14 aspen drive. (To verify this, see, e.g., http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=38716281. Definitely the right house.

Sopranos house adress

The location of the sopranos house was incorrectly listed as 124 aspen drive -- I changed it to 14 aspen drive. (To verify this, see, e.g., http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=38716281.) Definitely the right house. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.192.149.129 (talk) 05:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

Wikipedia:Fiction noticeboard

A new noticeboard, Wikipedia:Fiction noticeboard, has been created. - Peregrine Fisher 18:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice! Aaron Bowen 22:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

This noticeboard has been deleted per Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Fiction noticeboard. Please disregard the above posts. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 11:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Lupertazzi based on Colombos

"Due to its large size, the Lupertazzi crime family likely represents either the Gambino or Genovese crime families."

Firstly, how are we sure of the size of the Lupertazzi crime family? We don't here anything much of the other New York families which makes the Lupertazzi's appear dominant (reflective of the Gambinos or Genoveses) but this could simply be 'inconsistent storytelling' as one person above stated, but this is just an assumption made from the other families not being in the show. Maybe we could assume that the Lupertazzis have a stronger relationship with the DiMeo family then the other New York families do but there is nothing to say the Lupertazzis are the biggest family in New York. Or is there? I know the article doesn't say this directly.

Anyway, here is the similarities a friend of mine came up with to suggest that the Lupertazzis have more in common with the Colombo crime family lead by Carmine Persico.

1. Carmine Lupertazzi and Carmine Persico

2. Similar appearance - old, bald, "fish lips"

3. Season 5: it was mentioned that Lupertazzi had been boss for over 30 years; uncommonly long time for someone to remain boss however Carmine Persico we all know has been boss of the Colombos for over 30 years.

4. Lupertazzi and Persico both have sons (respectively Little Carmine for Lupertazzi and Carmine Jr. and Little Allie Boy for Persico) who spent time in Florida (South Florida specifically) with business down there.

and no.5 When Lupertazzi dies a war breaks out between those loyal to John Sacramoni, Lupertazzi's underboss and logical successor and those loyal to his son Little Carmine for control of the family. When Persico was sent to prison a war broke out between those loyal to Victor Orena, Persico's acting boss and those loyal to his son and him for control of the family.

I am sure the Lupertazzis are an amalgamation of various New York families and in the show, although it does depict NY of having five families, represents the New York mafia as a whole. In real life all five families have a presence in NJ. These similarities however are quite profound ones and maybe it could be included in the article with of course the correct sourcing of facts. Alexbonaro 11:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The info in the article and your work is OR without a reliable source. Aaron Bowen 11:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Tony mentions, that John Sac's family has 200 soldiers and because they are so big, he has no other options but to keep them happy. --JTrdi 13:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's original research and unverifiable but for arguments sake the family has more noticeable similarities with the Colombos then with the other NY families. I suppose nothing of this sort should be on the page though. Alexbonaro 08:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Deniro rumor

I removed this rumor because it was unsourced. It's also kind of trivial. Aaron Bowen 23:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

• Robert De Niro was originally set to appear in four episodes in Series 3 but passed it on due to other projects

Archiving

I'm going to archive a lot of this in a day or two if no one objects. Aaron Bowen 03:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Done, I didn;t bother to wait a lot of this is really old. Aaron Bowen 07:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Fox

It's stated in here that the show was originally made for FOX. Does anybody have some refs on that? Aaron Bowen 19:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I found one ref however all it says that Chase pitched the idea to FOX:[1] and they rejected it. It doesn't say anything about a pilot being produced for the network or anything. Aaron Bowen 19:45, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

A real surname?

Is "Soprano" a real surname? It doesn't sound like one to me. Some of the surnames of other characters also sound made-up. Is my impression on this correct?--Pharos 01:17, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

No its a real Surname. A quick search on ancestry.com shows a light distribution across the US of the surname "Soprano", with most being located in the NE. Doesnt seem to be very common though. Dman727 01:36, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

International broadcasting

It airs on HBO in Brazil.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious but I've always wondered this: why is broadcasting information important? Is it really encyclopedic? Are people really coming to Wikipedia to find out on which channel a show airs in Albania or Bhutan or East Timor? It just seems like a waste of space and unencyclopedic. 75.75.110.235 01:17, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think any type of information is a waste of space!

"Edited"

The present references to episodes being "edited" for free-to-air broadcasting I think should be changed to "censored for profanity", since that its really what we are talking about, aren't we(?) Or is there some other kind of "editing" that goes on(?) Grant | Talk 04:49, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Nudity inside the strip club is pixelated. I'm not sure how they handle sex and violence, because I haven't watched that much of it, but I believe they cut around some of the more graphic moments. Profanity is handled by overdubbing rather than bleeping (e.g., "fuck you" becomes "forget you"). I would be surprised if they don't do some editing for time, since original episodes are sometimes more than an hour long and a standard broadcast drama is usually more like 45 minutes. Clconway 14:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

For a not-terribly-authoritative site, you might look here. This reminds me: one big difference between HBO and A&E is that HBO airs the show letterboxed and A&E airs it full frame. IIRC, the first few seasons aired full frame on HBO; I believe in Season 2, you could choose between full frame on HBO and letterboxed on HBO2. Clconway 15:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Just checked and I see that the episodes are running about 70 minutes with commercials on A&E. I guess they're not editing for time. Clconway 02:16, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Sopranos Lawsuit

It should be worth noting in either this or the David Chase article that Chase was sued over the pilot episode and characters for the series. He met with a prosecuter in New Jersey, Robert Baer, and was introduced to detectives that told him stories of a particular New Jersey crime family. These mobsters (claimed in the law suit) would be the basis for many of the characters and stories in the series. Here is one story about it, I don't know if there is anything more recent: http://news.lp.findlaw.com/andrews/bt/sel/20050131/20050131baer.html

David Chase was supposed to compensate Baer is some way but never followed through. Chase claims he never made the deal.

The case is Baer v. Chase et al. --Twintone 19:07, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Road To Respect: Video Game

I just got the game and am really liking it and thinking of making a page for it, do you feel it's worth it? as being new to this im not sure how other pages are recivied do people like all the info in the same page? or are link off pages liked? Thanks

Will Scot 55 06:43, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Semiprotect

S-protect this page NOW!!! I cannot revert vandalism forever. Although I agree that the ending sucked. The great kawa 02:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Semi'd for a week. --Coredesat 02:12, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks much - was going to second that. (And yes, the ending was SUCH garbage.) Exigence 02:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I dont think it was garbage....I think Tony died, and the black out was his end. This is just my opinion of course.NYKenny 02:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Lol, we got rickrolled Liu Bei 02:45, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree the ending was bad, it was a non-ending. Ten years of waiting and they screw us like the mob.

While it certainly wasn't the ending I was expecting, I actually think it's good. I think of it this way, David Chase gave us a glimpse of Tony and his families, and now, the glimpse is over. Who knows if any of the guys in the restaurant were going to kill him or his family? But so long as Tony lives, he will always have the threat of being gunned down or indicted or divorcing from his wife. I'm glad I got to see Tony's journey even though I didn't get to see his destination.Bronx bomber07 03:24, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

i seriously doubt the black screen is a metaphore for tony getting whacked, if they wanted that they would have at least shown a gun, can someone please remove that part from the article, also shouldnt it mention something about how to is about to be arrested?

Final Episode Explanation

Could someone please fix/delete the "Explanation of the Final Episode" section. It is very POV and poorly written.

Final scenes for each broadcast

The article mentions that the East and West Coast feeds differed in what they showed as the final scene. Can someone double check that? I watched both feeds, and don't remember seeing a difference, but was pretty caught up in the story so I may or may not be recalling it clearly. -seinman 07:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)