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June 18

Eye sight

Hi, I have glasses for looking at far distance. My glasses for both eyes are +/- 1 (i forgot if it's + or -). What is my eye sight level (20/20, 20/40, etc...)? thanks. 74.111.82.91 00:04, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It might not answer your question exactly, but there's quite a bit of information at our Eyeglass prescription article which you may find interesting. —Steve Summit (talk) 01:10, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How Much Paper is Used

How much paper is used yearly in the United States for newsprint? How about in the world? Thanks, Melissa B.70.127.162.130 00:52, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Information for each country is available on the FAO website, although digging through the 1000+ plus articles is diffucult. [1] It appears that the world consumption is 30983 thousand metric tons. The USA consumed 10.299 million metric tons in 2003, according to the Newspaper Association of America: http://www.naa.org/info/facts04/newsprint-growth.html Renbelcher 01:34, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Consumer vs Professional cameras

I've noticed that the quality of a photo taken by professional cameras is much better than a consumer camera, obviously. But what is it that cameras like the Nikon D2X has that allows it to take such great photos over point-and-shoot cameras? More specifically, the lighting and mood is better and everything just seems to have a nice focus. Thanks. 74.111.82.91 04:13, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, take into consideration that not only are the optical components of a professional grade camera much better than a "point and shoot" version, resulting in better pictures, but also the people who use professional grade cameras tend to be much more skilled. An SLR camera gives the skilled photographer much more control over the composition of an image, which can result in much better results. "Point and shoot" models tend to do everything automatically, which can produce sub-optimal results, when compared to what an educated user can produce using a quality camera. --Haemo 04:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Much lower DOF, actually... DSLR have much bigger sensors than point-and-shoots, which means they need longer focal length lenses and therefore less DOF. The public seems to be fooled by low DOF-picture, and associate shallower DOF with "pro". The larger sensor size also means much more light striking the sensor, therefore produce less noise as they have higher SNR, and can retain much more detail otherwise blurred by point-and-shoot cameras' noise reduction firmware. They also have higher dynamic range (OR), and can have less blown out areas than a point-and-shoot. But most of all it provides much more flexibility for the photographer, as he/she can control virtually everything, from manual zoom and focus to exact exposure setting. Having a good camera doesn't mean you'll get good images, but if you know how to use it effectively, it will reduce lots of workload on your side. --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, low-end models also use lower quality optical glasses for their lenses. Budget models may not use optical glass at all, and some really cheap ones use plastics. That's gotta make a difference. There's a reason optical glass is so incredibly expensive. 68.119.223.51 18:36, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A professional camera lens can easily cost well over $1000. Multi-element precision ground optical glass with anti-reflection coatings. I have used the same camera with great lens and mediocre lens and the results show the difference. Edison 23:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The good news is that digital cameras now are subject to the same rapid improvements and price reductions as other digital items. In another decade or so there should be very little diff between consumer and pro cameras. Differences in results should still distinguish between a professional photographer, who knows how to frame a pic, what lighting conditions are ideal, etc., and a novice, who leaves the lens cap on. StuRat 05:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt it will go as fast as Moore's law. You cannot reduce the sensor size as you cram more and more pixels in there, which is the major way how silicon chips like CPU reduce its cost. In fact, we are using bigger and bigger sensors in point-and-shoots because it's the only way to really improve the quality. Sure point-and-shoots are rapidly reducing price, but DSLRs, where they have reached some rather hard obstacles, had been quite stable for quite a while now. --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:30, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To repeat a reply I gave to a similar question over on the science desk: It's worth taking a good look at what NASA has to say on the subject of camera design: here. In short - it's not the electronics it's the lens. Lenses don't get better/cheaper according to Moore's law - so whilst electronics improvements can go some way to getting us better photos - the lens is the critical thing. Sure, a few years ago when consumer grade cameras were typically 640x480 resolution, the professional cameras with a couple of megapixels were mainly better because of the electronics. But nowadays, even fairly cheap cameras have a couple of megapixels - which is overkill for anything you'll be putting up on a computer screen - and close to the resolution of most colour printers. At this point, further improvements must come from improved lens designs. Since good lenses are not getting cheaper at the rate that electronics are improving, I think the gap between cheap consumer cameras and more expensive professional cameras will remain. SteveBaker 11:04, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As the sensors improve in sensitivity and reduce in size, it should be possible to reduce the size and cost of the lens. Eventually, I would hope for a pinhole camera with infinite focus and a quick shutter speed. StuRat 03:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's some fundamental physics to do with the optics required by the lens, wavelengths of light, etc, that prevent this no matter how good your sensors and electronics (as some of the others have basically said). While the people that make these things keep coming up with better designs and ways of overcoming certain problems, there are these definite physical limitations that prevent your dream camera from becoming a reality, unless they can find a way to overcome the laws of physics. --jjron 07:52, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe a pinhole can produce a "perfect" image, but at reduced brightness. The only limitation I see, then, is the ability to have small enough and sensitive enough sensors where the image is projected. Limitations on lens optics simply don't apply, since a pinhole camera doesn't have a lens. StuRat 19:26, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stu, the fundamental limits of diffraction and photon shot noise unfortunately do apply also to pinhole cameras. As the article on pinhole camera explains, the resolution of a pinhole camera involves a tradeoff between blurring due to pinhole size (which is severe when a large pinhole is used) and blurring due to diffraction (which is severe with small pinholes). This tradeoff leads to an optimum pinhole size of about

d=1.9{\sqrt {f\lambda }}

, where f is the distance from the pinhole to the film or detector. That optimal pinhole size (for a given f) yields an minimum resolvable angle on the order of

s={\frac {d}{f}}=1.9{\sqrt {\frac {\lambda }{f}}}

. Note that f is in the denominator: this optimal resolution gets very bad for small f (small cameras). To yield a good resolution, comparable to lens-based cameras, a pinhole camera must therefore be very large, with a large distance from the pinhole to the film. For example, consider a random camera objective like this Canon 35mm f/2; it has good contrast well beyond a resolution of 40 line pairs/mm, corresponding to a resolved angle s of less than (1/40)mm/35mm = 0.71 milliradians. To get similar resolution, a pinhole camera would have to have a length greater than

f=\left({\frac {1.9}{s}}\right)^{2}\lambda =3.5

meters for

\lambda =0.5\mu m

! Any electronic detector for such a camera would also have to be extremely large, to maintain the desired angular field of view (2.4 x 3.6 meters (!) to get the same field as the 35 mm objective gets with 35 mm film). The sensitivity of the detector is also fundamentally limited: the best it can possibly do is to record the precise position of each photon that reaches it. If the number of photons that get through the pinhole is insufficient for good statistics, the image will necessarily be noisy due to photon shot noise, for any detector. (To see that intuitively, consider a case when only two or three photons get through; no detector could produce a very interpretable image from that...) A pinhole that is much smaller than a typical camera lens aperture, and thus lets through much fewer photons, will therefore yield noisy images at normal exposure times, even with an ideal detector. Sorry. --mglg_(talk) 06:38, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. border agents Attacked by "hostiles"

Did you know this is going on ? This is on FOX News RIGHT NOW. Agents are being attacked by rocks and the like, incl. Molotov Cocktails. I'm watching this RIGHT NOW. Will this be appropriate for any articles ? 205.240.144.168 04:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea what you're talking about, but if the incident is at all notable, it will probably show up somewhere. We're not a "breaking news" sort of place, though. --Haemo 04:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It was on "Hannity's America". Now' they're showing Michael Moore's "B.S.". 205.240.144.168 04:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One U.S. border agent had to KILL a illegal alien as he attempted to heave a LARGE rock at him. 205.240.144.168 04:25, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a article discussing "Hannity's America" ? 205.240.144.168 04:27, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Look - just chill. We're an encyclopedia, not a news source. Even the CNN and Fox News websites doesn't appear to have a story about this -- it's almost certain that no reliable sources currently exist about this incident. --Haemo 04:32, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The show may "re-run" on the FOX News network real shortly. 205.240.144.168 04:42, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(deindent) Well, we'll give it a while to see what happens. --Haemo 04:50, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not a news site. When it's really immediately obvious that an event will still be widely talked about years from now, there is benefit to making a start on an article early on. However, it's generally better to wait until we can have all of the facts clearly in hand - and know for sure that this was truly a notable historical event. If you feel a burning need to write a balanced, neutral article (not a diatribe about the evils of illegal immigration - and not a rant about the brutality of US border guards) - then write a piece for Wikinews instead. If it turns out that this event triggers a major change in US policy and becomes as famous as (say) race riots in the '60s - then you'll still be hearing people talk about it a year from now. If that happens then use the Wikinews piece as the basis of a Wikipedia article. If (as seems likely), this will be a story in the news for a day or two - then go largely forgotten - then no Wikipedia article is required. SteveBaker 10:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

sorry, but what exactly do you mean by deindent? -Dixie48 01:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's the opposite of indent; it's also called "outdent". -- JackofOz 02:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More specifically - saying '(deindent)' at the beginning of a Wikipedia talk post says "I mean to reply to the previous poster - but if I indent my reply again from that post, it will be squashed up too much to the right - so I'm going to leave off the indentation so that subsequent answers will remain readable." It's common to do this when there are six or more ':'s at the start of the previous reply. SteveBaker 10:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And it would be less necessary if folks would more consistently indent according to what they're responding to, rather than according to what they're responding after. —Tamfang 05:47, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we need some Wikipedia indentation guidelines. I'll get my teeth into that project when I get a moment. :) JackofOz 22:47, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eastern table manners

hi, Please pardon me for asking this question here, but I could not find the answers in the google. Iam an easterner living in the western world and trying to become westernized. I unknowingly offend people while eating with glug, slurp and belching noises. Closing the mouth doesnt help either. Please help me eradicate these problems.

-wanna bE A weSTERNER 131.220.115.227 08:45, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It would probably be a good idea to go to a local bookstore and try to find an etiquette book. Slightly more seriously, if you have a hard time helping yourself, there are professional etiquette coaches out there that will help you with this -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 08:51, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any western friends? Perhaps they would be willing to give you some pointers. Dismas|^(talk) 09:09, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

drinking slowly helps, just a little bit at a time.

Agreed. Eat and drink slowly, and chew with the mouth closed. Also keep your elbows off the table and don't eat food with your hands (with a few exceptions, generally for casual eating, like pizza and tacos). If you must belch, cover your mouth while doing so and try to make it as quiet as possible. StuRat 05:45, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See our article on Etiquette in Canada and the United States (I'm assuming Eastern = European and Western is North American. Although it could be east europe to west europe).--GTPoompt (talk) 12:15, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eastern can also mean Asian too.

Also avoid foods that are difficult to eat without slurping. Things like chicken feet and noodles are popular in parts of Asia where slurping isn't considered an etiquette horror. Otherwise, just watch yourself like a hawk. Pay attention while you're eating to how you eat. When you catch yourself doing something wrong, pay more attention for the rest of the meal. It's easy to fall into old habits, but you have to actually pay attention to break them.

Breaking habits is difficult but it can't be done. If you pay attention and practise, some day you will eat without belching, ever: without slurping, ever: and without glugging, ever. Then you'll go back home for a visit and everyone will laugh at you. --Charlene 19:36, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the key here is simply to avoid sucking foods into your mouth when you are eating. Instead, take some of the food with your spoon or fork, place it inside your mouth, close your mouth, and remove the food from the spoon or fork with your lips, tongue, or teeth. No one is supposed to be able to observe the sounds or sights that accompany your actual ingestion of food. Bodily functions are somewhat taboo in Western culture. For this reason, you should try to avoid belching in public, but if you feel that a belch cannot be avoided, keep your mouth closed while you are belching and let the gas pass through your nose. You can avoid having to belch by not taking in air with your food. Marco polo 21:10, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

where to get the best FX rates in London?

I have currencies of various kinds I'd like to get changed into pounds sterling - euros, chinese yuan, thai baht. where should i go on the high street in london to get the best foreign exchange value? the post office? the bank which I have my current account? any ideas? thanks very much for suggestions....

Banks would probably give the best rates, but I don't think you'd get a better rate for having a current account with them. I have always found Thomas Cook to give good rates as well. Large branches of Marks & Spencer also do foreign exchange, and it would be worth checking them out too. Whatever you do, unless you're really desperate, don't use the small, anonymous "one guy behind a window" outfits you see all over the place in London. For sure they will give the worst rates. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 11:23, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently The Post Office is very good for selling foreign money to, and you could wait until the exchange rate rises, then you would get more wherever you go.

Indeed: the Post Office doesn't charge commission, so in theory they should be cheapest. Laïka 22:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You shouldn't just take commission into account: you should also take into account the "spread" of the exchange rates. Some places advertise "no commission", but they have very poor exchange rates. (I've no idea whether the Post Office is good or bad as regards FX so can't advise on that.)--A bit iffy 23:11, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

project related basic querries

sir, i m a final year electronics engineering student.i need to know something about certain project topics and also the contents in MICROPROCESSORS which i want to opt for my project.please help.

sachindra narayan

It's not entirely clear what you're asking, but you should read our article Microprocessor and then come back to us with any more specific questions. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 12:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Webb Ellis

when was rugby first introduced at schools—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.139.165 (talk • contribs)

The article Football should give you some information of this. There is not really a definitive answer, because at one stage, there was just football, before soccer broke away to leave rugger. Neither sport was properly codified for years after they had been established at various public schools in England. You may need to draw your own conclusion. slυмgυм [ ←→ ] 16:37, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rugby School makes it clear that Webb Ellis' contribution to the invention of the game is a myth. But it's also evident that the essence of the modern game did come about at Rugby school. This isn't a game where someone sat down one day, wrote a set of rules and had children start playing it. It evolved over many generations of schoolboys with the rules changing in an ad-hoc manner. Precisely which of these variations should be called 'Rugby' is largely a matter of opinion - so the exact date is also a matter of opinion. What we can say though is that the game was never "introduced at schools" - the kids invented the game themselves - possibly in a number of different schools. SteveBaker 10:38, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Equivalent of Matric in Zimbabwe

What is the equivalent of Matric, Grade 12 ,11,etc in Zimbabwe?

They use the A level system as found in the UK. Grade 12 and 13 are the sixth form (lower and upper, respectively). Do we need an Education in Zimbabwe article? Natgoo 21:38, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Fuzzy Wuzzy English Children's Rhyme.

Who created the Fuzzy Wuzzy children's rhyme? I've been wondering, but I can't seem to find the answer anywhere.

Thank you for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.203.208 (talk • contribs)

I been looking around but I can't find the answer either.--A bit iffy 23:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please take a look at Fuzzy Wuzzy and Kipling's poem on the same topic at Wikisource [2]. "'E's the on'y thing that doesn't give a damn For a Regiment o' British Infantree!" (Do you enjoy Kipling?)Edison 00:37, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know.I've never Kippled.hotclaws 08:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kipple? V-Man - ^T/_C 22:14, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

California State Prison

I am looking for a name(s) of a prison where inmates with mental problems would go in California. I am looking for my father who has dementia and I believe he is in a southern California prison

Wouldn't there be a perfectly legal and proper way to find out where your father is being held? I'd try the police first, I'm pretty sure that just about in any western country you have the right to know where your next of kin is being held if they are incarcerated. Vespine 22:15, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The California Department of Corrections maintains a list here. The California Medical Facility has a medical psychiatric unit, so he might be there, although it is located in northern California. If your father is in federal prison, you'll need to try the Federal Bureau of Prisons website. –Pakman044 00:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, Vespine, I was adopted so it would be hard to obtain this information...

June 19

Sharp FO-765

Hello. Whenever I copy an 8 1/2" by 11" original on my Sharp FO-765, this fax machine copies the original on a letter sized page and asks for another blank page and for me to press the Start button. When I feed another blank page, the fax machine copies a tiny bit of the lowest portion of the original. (That part is useless.) How can I fix this problem instead of not feeding a sheet of paper and pressing the Start button? --Mayfare 00:06, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure I'm going to be of a lot of help, but if you don't have the instruction manual, you can get it from the Sharp Canada website at http://www.sharp.ca/manuals/, and then searching for FO765 (it's also called the UX-320). The manual is a PDF file inside of a self-extracting zip. It didn't seem to be very forthcoming unfortunately. –Pakman044 00:51, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Possible solution: the manual documents a feature called "copy cut-off" that suppresses printing of a second page when copying a document longer than the paper size. To turn it on: press the keys Function, 6, *, 1, Stop in that order. Please let us know if that fixes it.--Martinship 07:00, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Pakman044 and Martinship. It works. --Mayfare 00:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Effectiveness of language immersion?

I checked the article we have on Language Immersion, and it seems to be rather biased towards the Canadian definition. I'm referring more to things such as home stays or foreign exchange programs, basically, how much have these sort of things helped? Like, how long does the average student take to become fluent in a classroom environment, compared to a student who resides in the country? How long does it take for someone who barely knows the language to start to pick up enough to survive (Such as demonstrated in The Crepes of Wrath)? And what are some reliable companies (outside of academic institutions, I'm looking at doing something like this between high school and college) that offer this? I've seen FirstStayWorld, but something about them makes me uneasy, like they're looking to take advantage of traveling students. -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 00:56, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know about studies that give ratios for learning times, but I can tell you from personal experience that within five months of non-classroom immersion (i.e. living in another country) I was able to carry on hours-long conversations in Spanish, without resorting to my dictionary and without ever having had any classes in the language. My pocket dictionary and a willingness to be corrected were my best learning aids to help me reach that point. My best friend studied Mandarin and went from struggling to learn 30 words a week (non-immersion) to easily learning, and retaining, over 70 words a day with school-based immersion. I don't remember which company ran the school he attended. When you must learn in order to communicate, it is amazing what the mind is capable of, and how quickly you can learn. Just learn a few important phrases and jump into the other culture. Know your numbers and how to say "Thank you," "You're welcome," "How do you say... (point to object)?" "How much does that cost?" and "Where is the bathroom?" You'll be surprised how quickly you learn the rest. 152.16.188.111 04:02, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My experiences are of immersion courses in French - and I am also resident in France. Firstly, no immersion course will make one fluent. To achieve fluency takes a long time of residency. But they can provide sufficient underpinning to make it possible to achieve all one needs in a "normal" life. (i.e. Much more than being able to ask for a glass of wine.) Total beginners who went on the best course I attended (I was Intermediate level) were able to keep an end up in basic conversation within two weeks. BUT they had achieved an invaluable underpinning, and a high degree of self-confidence. That, I believe, is what you are paying for. BUT (again) be very careful for which course you sign up. There are a lot of truly awful set-ups out there. Avoid in particular those who offer half-and-half. i.e. Morning in class, afternoons free to "soak up the culture". These become holidays! Go for the 24/7 option. They are TOUGH, exhausting, but they get you there quickly.90.9.87.220 14:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)petitmichel[reply]

Between 1988-1992, my mom and I hosted eight exchange students from Brasil. Each student had varying levels of English fluency, but half of them were very basic speakers. After 6 months of immersion (in the Southern US, no less) all of them were not only speaking near-fluent English, they also acquired a strong command of American slang and jargon. Their writing was not as perfect, however, but aside from their accents, most people couldn't tell they weren't native English speakers. 68.119.223.51 21:02, 19 June 2007 (UTC) kelnaiz[reply]

Jackie Robinson

On April 15, 1947 when he played is first major league game, who was the opposing team and who won by what score?

Brooklyn Dodgers 5, Boston Braves 3. [3] -- Mwalcoff 02:16, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Blockbuster bluray

Will blockbuster charge more to rent a bluray than a DVD? Because I'd rent bluray if theyre the same price but I don't care if its slightly worse quality if it costs less for DVD.--71.185.137.94 02:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC) What if it was only 50c more expensive- I bet you would hire the bluray.[reply]

Are you sure you have a blu-ray compatible player? Unless you have a playstation 3, it's very unlikely --⁪froth^t 13:42, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thats what have I am the op but I don't think I would spend 50c more --71.175.122.71 13:43, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

20c. Would you spend 20c more?

Song in Simon

In the 2004 movie Simon, in the first movie that the protagonist produced with the virtual Simon, where Simon is standing on a pier talking to her lover, what is the name of the song that was playing in the background? It sounded remarkably similar to a piece from the video game Halo. Thanks. 74.111.82.91 03:56, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

project hammer

what happened to project hammer? ive been looking forward to it and now i hear that its getting cancelled. wat happened??!!?

the article seems to cover most (if not all) of what is known. you could try to email Nintendo directly (here) and see what they say. Jon513 12:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Crossing China by car

203.147.0.44 04:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)Dave[reply]

Can anybody tell me if China will let you take your car in from Laos and out into Russia and what paper work is needed for this trip

I would speculate that that would be quite difficult to arrange, as China generally only allows tourists in specific tourist areas, where they can keep them away from people living in poverty and from protesters, which might give the impression that there are massive inequalities in China. StuRat 05:37, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not necessarily, they won't stop you just because you're a tourist; we aren't THAT totalitarian. I don't know what you would need other than visas, but be warned though: It is potentially dangerous to travel long distance by car, especially if you're on less-populated roads. Also, after all the toll and hours wasted driving, it's cheaper and better to fly than drive for 5000km. --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:22, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just as an idea; could the car be taken by freighter? Google Freighter Travel or similar wording.--88.109.177.178 10:10, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's assuming that the OP just wants to move the car from one place to another. He may actually want to drive it to see the scenery or to be able to say that he's done it. Dismas|^(talk) 10:25, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This source and this source suggest that it is not easy or cheap to enter China driving a motor vehicle. Apparently, the vehicle has to be formally imported into China, including payment of a sizable customs duty, then it must be registered and insured in China, and apparently, an approved guide must be hired and must accompany you for your entire trip through China. You must arrange to have your guide meet you at your entry point into China. All of this has to be arranged in advance in China. Possibly you can hire an agent to make the arrangements. Marco polo 18:14, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Another potential difficulty, according to Driver's license, is that China doesn't recognise foreign driving licences and you would have to obtain a Chinese driving licence. -- Arwel (talk) 18:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you would need to sit an exam to "convert" your foreign driver's license to a Chinese driver's license (Chinese) or apply for a temporary license (Chinese). It would be best to talk to your local Chinese embassy and ask them as they should know the procedure on how to do this. --antilived^{T | C | G} 05:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Fairness doctrine"

WHAT is this ? Conservatives say it is liberals trying to supress Conservative Radio/Talk Radio. Seen this on "Hannity and Combs/H&C". Trent Lott blames Talk Radio for the Immigration stalemate, wants it GONE. Show is on now, and it incl. a assault of border agents by "hostiles". I've been a news junkie since the 9-11 attacks. 205.240.144.168 04:39, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a legitimate question. 205.240.144.168 04:40, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi ML. Have a look at this Fairness Doctrine Mhicaoidh 05:24, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article could do with an update (see talk page and google "fairness doctrine") to see Democrats in Congress are pushing to bring back legislation that they say would bring more balance to the media, but critics say would muzzle conservative voices. Mhicaoidh 05:52, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Funny how all of a sudden the Conservatives want to muzzle Conservative talk radio when the talk shows disagree with the administration's pet project. Corvus cornix 17:42, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

airplane charter

does anyone happen to know who the baltimore orioles use as their airplane service. To travel around the nation to the different MLB baseball teams.--logger 06:46, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unknown car

Does anybody know, what car it is? I'm sure it must be older than 100 years, but I've absolutly no idea who build it. --Marcl1984 14:40, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It looks to be from a very early time, as shown by the chain drive going to the rear wheel rather than a drive shaft with a differential gear. Seeing the very short hood (little room for an engine) and the big box behind the cab, I am reminded of pre-WW1 electric delivery trucks. Edison 14:56, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean with WW1 the First World War? This shortcut isn't usually in Germany. --Marcl1984 15:39, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's called an abbreviation, not a shortcut, and yes, he does.

Furthermore the shortened hood has no openings for ventilation, necessary in an internal combustion engine, to allow the radiator to function. The vehicles I am thinking of had a large number of lead acid or even nickel-iron batteries. The Detroit Electric car has a similar hood. Electric utilities in large cities used them in the early 20th century because the distances a work crew travelled were not great, and recharging the batteries at night was done with very cheap off-peak power. Edison 19:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heres an old brochurce showing some electric trucks, not identical with your photo but note similar hood on one and similar overall comformation. [4] Edison 20:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is one clue here. The logo on the front of the truck belongs to the Werder Bremen soccer club. The truck is painted in their team colours and haw Werder Bremen painted on the side. Maybe shoot an email to their fan club with the photo attached? SteveBaker 14:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Using your credit card to transfer money into a bank account

I have a rather odd question - and none of the customer care people from banks etc have any idea of what I'm actually asking.
Thus have come to the intellectua and (hopefully) literate people at Wikipedia to see if they're familiar with this...

I have a bank account in South Africa. It is empty. It is in fact in arrears.
I have a credit card issued in Australia, it is a VISA credit card, and it currently has credit.
I want to transfer money from my Australian credit card account into my South African account.
Are you with me so far?

Ordinarily the process you use is to do an EFT wire international transfer. In Australia this incurs a surcharge of $28-00 (regardless of the amount) and takes 3 days.
Now all over the world, there are thousands and thousands of merchants that accept credit cards that end up getting money.
Surely there is a way that my South African bank can take my VISA credit card details, put through whatever amount (e.g. $100) and have this credited to my South African account?

I mean if I'm in Australia I can log onto amazon.com and use my credit card. I can My question is, what do you call this process, or do you know if such a facility exists?

Rfwoolf 14:52, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This shows all the steps it takes for merchants to accept Visa. They don't seem to have a name for it really, except "accepting Visa." I bet they have to pay some kind of surcharge or processing fee as well, though. Recury 16:11, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Banks do not consider themselves "merchants" and may not be able or willing to charge your card as a merchant does. In fact, Visa may not allow it, as Visa banks typically charge a different (higher) interest rate for "cash advances" processed through banks than they do for other purchases. What you are really seeking is after all cash. South Africa may have regulations requiring cash advances to be claimed in person, in part to avoid fraudulent use of the cash advance feature, which could more easily be used to finance illegal transactions than could a purchase from a merchant. Your only recourse may be to collect the cash advance in Australia and send a wire transfer, as you describe. Marco polo 17:23, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm, seems like I thought. But by the way, the "credit card" I have is actually a Visa Credit-Card Debit card, i.e. it functions as a "VISA" card, but doesn't actually have any credit. I can only spend whatever money is actually in my account. In that sense it isn't a "cash advance". But it seems like the banks aren't merchants at all. Which is very frustrating. How easy it would then be to transfer cash. ... Rfwoolf 17:29, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you were in South Africa, you could maybe use a cash machine to draw money on your Australian account and pay it into your South African account... But If you are in Australia, that is no help. SaundersW 18:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PS3

How long can I run it before it's considered unsafe or bad for the system? I want to run folding@home on it when I'm not using it, but I remember if your left the PS2 on for too long it broke it... Яussiaп F 16:36, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I assume the only issue of concern is heat? Does the owner's manual say anything about not leaving it on? My understanding is that it's got quite a lot of fans, so maybe this isn't much of an issue. Friday (talk) 16:38, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What about electricity? Does the PS3 consume much? If I ran it constantly, would it crank up the electric bill by a lot? Яussiaп F 16:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That depends on what you mean by a lot... But yes, due to a PS3's (massive) 380 watt power drainage (and Fold@Home using 100% of CPU), it'll cost just short of $1.00 a day at $0.10 a KWh. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 19:10, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It won't be using anything like that much power for this task. It needs 380 watts only when the disk drive(s) are working hard, the fans are all running, the graphics are running at maximum rates and all of the CPU cores are maxed out whilst simultaneously doing lots of transfers into and out of main memory. Unless it's doing a lot of graphics, (which I doubt) the folding@home projects probably only uses the CPU cores - and maybe a little memory transfer time. I would be surprised if the PS3 was consuming even 50 watts while it was running it. The PS3 ought to run reasonably cool with that little power drain - I don't recall whether it shuts off the fans when it doesn't need them - if so and if it's not spinning the disk drives - then it's not really going to 'wear out' because no moving parts are operating. Solid state electronics don't really wear out - their lifespan is about the same whether turned on or off, so long as they aren't running hot. SteveBaker 11:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone know anything about President Steyn?

I am researching into President Steyn who I presume was a state President of Bloemfontein ? Is this correct? Also I would like to know dates when he was President. Please help many thanks Alec Lockwood ~email removed~

Our article Martinus Theunis Steyn provides all of the information you seek. He was president of the Orange Free State, whose capital was at Bloemfontein. Marco polo 17:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Genealogy

Do you have a geneology section that can be used for research for information on family. Regina Floyd 19:41, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No. We have the article Genealogy, but it does not contain information on specific families. Some of the external links at the bottom of the article might help. Marco polo 20:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It occurred to me that we do have articles on various royal and aristocratic families that might be useful genealogically to members of those families. For example, there is the House of Bourbon. However, we do not have articles on ordinary families. Marco polo 20:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ancestry.com at [www.ancestry.com] is a subscription online service with many thousands of family trees, as well as access to census information, social security death records, military service records, etc. Wikipedia has some articles on members of a few families such as the Arbuthnot family [5] and many members thereof, likewise the Kennedy family and the Bush family and political families in the US in general List of United States political families as well as world political families List of political families. There are a great many biographical articles in Wikipedia, with widely varying qualities of referencing, but it is not supposed to be a genealogical site for persons who are otherwise not notable. Edison 17:57, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOT a genaological database, but you could try a website like Genes Reunited, or the Mormon Church if you had specifc enquires. 62.56.86.251 23:45, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

art advice

what does a horse look like from the front. What should I do if I want to draw a horse from this position. And would it still look like a horse enough to be easily recognisable?

Try a google image search for "horse"? Like this? Bound to be able to find something useful. Pfly 20:56, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(after edit conflict) To see images of horses, try this link. To draw a horse or any other object, you need some knowledge of drawing. You might take a look at our article Perspective (graphical), but a drawing class would be more helpful. Whether your drawing would be recognizable would depend on your skill. Marco polo 21:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sarah Jessica Parker: [6] ? StuRat 03:37, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I almost spit out some of my zhongzi reading that.... You can also try fish eye lens pictures of horses, which would be a more exaggerated frontal view of the horse, which can help you see the prominent features more easily. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 04:41, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How do I dry a chair?

[7] I have a fabric, upholstered desk chair that was accidentally left in the rain. How can I go about drying it out, without letting mold/mildew form inside the fabric? --69.212.0.37 21:37, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not a chair drying expert but i think it depends where you live, I assume you don't live in balmy sunny conditions, if you did I'd suggest leaving it out in the sun for a day would probably be enough. So have you got a heater of some sort? The trick is since the chair is thick and dense so it will take a while and you want only very very 'slow' heat, like a radiator or something, don't leave it too close to a gas or bar heater for any length of time. This probably doesn't really say anything you didn't think already, but I can't imagine there's much more to it.. Vespine 22:32, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You can try wringing the loose cushions (if any) and compressing the attached cushions (if any). Then, try blotting the chair with towels to absorb as much water as possible. Put the chair in a dry place, like a garage, up on milk crates or pallets to allow good air flow underneath, with fans pointed at the chair from all directions. You could use an electrical heater, which will dry it quicker, but will also make a more hospitable environment for mold and mildew (moist and warm) in the meantime. Avoid using a propane heater, as that creates moisture in the combustion process. Incidentally, since it's already wet, this would be a good time to shampoo it, if it needs it. This would be especially good if the shampoo contains an anti-mold, anti-mildew agent. StuRat 03:27, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, your IP suggests you live near the windy city which shouldnt be toooooo chilly at this time of year. I would suggest leaving it under cover but getting plenty of breeze to dry out slowly. I do know that second hand cars are cleaned by waterblasting the interior and seats, then hanging the seats in an airing shed with sun and breeze but no artificial heating. Mhicaoidh 08:39, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A wet/dry vacuum or carpet shampooer could suck water out of it. The paper towels or cloth towels under pressure can blot a great deal of the remaining moisture out of it. Then a hairdryer, used carefully to avoid starting a fire or overheating the chair material, might be able to dry the thing until it is dry enough not to mildew. Of course, for a valuable artifact like a book, if there is a large enough freezer, it can be put in the freezer and freeze-dried, with no chance of mold occurring. As a substitute, it could be put in a small room with a dehumidifier to accelerate the drying. Edison 17:49, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It would need to be a rather heavy-duty dehumidifier, as a wet chair is going to give off a lot of moisture. Still, if it's rainy or humid out, this might be a good option. StuRat 19:45, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

June 20

Legality of Child Selling

Strictly speaking, in the USA, would transferring custody of a child in exchange for currency be legal, as long as they weren't being put into some illegal situation, such as sexual abuse or slavery? -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 02:42, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Question is answered here: [8]. StuRat 03:14, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trying to find where to get a print of a concert photograph

My boyfriend is in a photograph taken at a Rush concert in the 70's. This photograph is in a book that was writtten about Rush. We have been trying to get a print of this photo but are having a hard time. Does anyone have the e-mail or address of Neal Peart or Rush to ask them? We have tried the books author and he doesnt even know who took the picture. Any help is appreciated.

Have you tried asking the publisher? They probably know more about it than the author does, since they probably had to pay the photographer royalties -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 03:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If the photo is of decent size and quality, an alternative might be to get a professional photo restoration thing done to it. Won't be as good as having the original film, but it's better than nothing. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 04:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

what is the history of tampico fibre brushes?

Tampico fibre brushes are used in multiple industrial and residential settings. Where is this natural vegetable fibre produced/grown? In the scientific community it is well understood that this natural fibre cleans better than nylon or plastic becuase it is "hydrophyllic,(sp?) Absorbs water and particulate matter as opposed to pushing it around. An search on google only gives sources for tampico brushes not history of the fibre. Please respond. 63.194.90.237 05:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is made from Agave lechuguilla, which is native to the Chihuahuan and Sonoran deserts of Mexico and the Southwestern US. --mglg_(talk) 02:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

birth control

on Comparison_of_birth_control_methods#Effectiveness_of_various_methods, it says that the table is applicable for the first year of use.

1. Does this mean having sexual intercourse once a day for an entire year?

2. Then does this mean that if I have unprotected intercourse once in a year, then the probability of failure (i.e. pregnancy) is (1/365)*0.85 = 0.0023 ?

While the table is a bit unclear on this, typically these types of figures would be calculated from the failure rates of large sample sizes of people that were using each particular method of contraception over the course of a year. There would not usually be the 'requirement' that they had to have intercourse once (and only once) each day for that whole year. In general terms, it's more a case of 'use this contraception for a year and see if you get pregnant'.
No. The chance of pregnancy is highly variable. For example if your one time is in the peak of the fertile window then chances of pregnancy are relatively high, if in the middle of menstruation, then not so high. Remember also that these are only average figures, and can vary widely from individual to individual. --jjron 07:28, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are days in the month when you are very unlikely to conceive, and days where you are much more likely to. One of the survival mechanisms for the human species is that your body and your hormones may convince your mind that having sex is a pretty good idea right at the time that you are most able to conceive, thereby lousing up the statistical inference. Edison 13:45, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Paratrooper in Civ III weapon

This is a very obscure question but what weapon does the paratrooper use in Civilization III? I have included a picture of the paratrooper, standing next to a marine [here].

The marine appears to be wearing USMC Vietnam-era clothes and carrying an AK-47.

I saved the sound file but how/where do I upload files? In the game it vaguely sounds like a MP5. --Blue387 06:46, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it looks like of like a QBZ-95, but with a shorter barrel and the magazine location is flipped. Honestly, it's probably just a stylized MP5 or something. --Haemo 07:47, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's a tiny little picture, but from the curvature of the magazine, I'd say whatever it is uses rifle ammo of some kind, not (relatively) straight-walled pistol ammo. Friday (talk) 19:13, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Haemo, while the weapon on the left is definitely a variant of the AK 47, a CZ or AKMS or something perhaps, I suspect the weapon on the paratrooper to the right is either too pixelated to identify or more likely a fictional gap filler. SGGH ^speak! 20:41, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

NCEA math credits

Do you need good quality NCEA math credits as in excellence in year 11 to get into university in New Zealand?

It largely depends on what course you want to do in Uni. The minimum credits that you need for university entry is level 2 or above (I think, not 100% sure); in math-related courses where space is limited, it certainly helps if you get higher quality credits than just Achieved ones, but it depends on what course you choose. --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:49, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm talking about ncea level 1 math credits

I doubt anyone would be too concerned about level 1 results, BUT it depends on what course you are aiming to do at University, entry criteria for some are very competitive. Best to ask your teacher or phone the university you are thinking of attending and ask for the School / Department /Faculty you want to enter or Intending Student Information. Mhicaoidh 08:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What course in uni teaches me Pediatrics? and do i need math a lot for the course?

At uni level, pediatrics is in Medical School, NZ has two, Otago and Auckland and entry is very competitive. Phone or email them for advice. Math wouldnt be particularly useful but they will be looking for high level academic achievement all round especially analytical thinking and ability in the sciences of which math is one. There are other pathways to a career in pediatrics such as mid-wifery etc . Mhicaoidh 11:32, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting 2-weeks courses

I am Spanish and stuyding English and would like some advice about a 2-week summer course in a English speaking country (especially USA, Canada, UK, Ireland or Malta). I am particularly interested in the following areas/subjects: sporting activities (including risk sports), cooking, art/pottery /sculpture, Sci-Fi/astrobiology, cinema, agriculture/farming/zoology. Could anybody suggest any ideas?. Basically I would like to do an informal, interesting and where possible relatively inexpensive course together with English native speakers and so practice my English and have some fun. Thank you for any advice or tips.--Javi--

[9] should give you some sporting/adventure holidays in the UK. Though, I think a good way of learning a language is to go to a part of the country where there are no tourists and just get chatting to locals. I'm going to a town near Lyon in summer to do exactly that and improve my French. JoshHolloway 12:12, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Cambridge Center for Adult Education in Cambridge, Massachusetts has lots of inexpensive courses. You could even sign up for a few in a two-week period, since several of them meet just once. Here is info on a rock-climbing course in Canada. Or, you can do your own searches on Google with search terms like "two week" "course" "August" "July" and "[activity]" (where in place of "[activity]" you type an activity that you'd like to learn). Marco polo 01:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Number of planes in the air

Can't seem to find an answer for this on Federal Aviation Administration or Air traffic control. On any given day, how many civil aircraft (mainly ones tracked by ATC) are over US Airspace at any given time? - Zepheus <ゼィフィアス> 17:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FlightAware.com might have the answer. Splintercellguy 18:45, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder how they count flights as some of their dots on the map are over Canada, Greenland, even Cuba. Rmhermen 19:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese soldiers not realizing war is over

I heard that there where some Japanese soldiers in hiding on an island somewhere and that they emerged after a couple of decades not knowing the war was over. Whats the basis for this story. Do we have any articles relating to this?

Here is a site with more on these men: [10] Rmhermen 18:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. I remember being told stories about this by my dad when I was a kid. I believed them at the time - but later I dismissed them as urban legends. --Kurt Shaped Box 18:48, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We also have a few articles: Japanese holdout, Hiroo Onoda, Shoichi Yokoi, Ishinosuke Uwano. Also, while it's not really a holdout picture, as the war is still on, you should still check out Hell in the Pacific. It's great and definitely on-point in its flavor. --TotoBaggins 18:48, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any holdout films? - Zepheus <ゼィフィアス> 18:54, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nectarini

How is a nectarini made - it's referred to as a harder alternative to an appletini on Scrubs, but I can't find anything much about it either on or off Wikipedia. I'm guessing from the name though that it either contains honey (nectar) or nectarine. Laïka 18:03, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I found a recipe for it here. Jentaylor312 21:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Competition 100m Records

I remember reading somewhere (quite some time ago) that no 'white' person had ever completed the 100-metres event in timed-competition in under 10 seconds, and that everyone in the "10 second club" was black. Does anybody know if this is true? Certainly casual observation of the events seems to suggest that there are much more successful black sprint atheletes than white. I cannot for the life of me remember where I read it, so no idea if it is reputable, but does anybody have any knowledge/know where I could find an answer to this? ny156uk 18:09, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Defining "white" as having only European ancestry, then it appears the answer is yes. According to this site [11], 52 men have run sub-10 seconds, 51 of them of African descent and one of them half Irish, half Indigenous Australian. Rmhermen 18:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, that seems to be too much to just be a coincidence. StuRat 19:06, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nicholas Wade [12] makes a case that it is, in fact, not a coincidence at all, but genetic: The fastest runners in short and medium distances tend to come from (distinct) geographic regions. What's more runners from each region have little success in translating their success into the other distance. Wade is a bit too eager to accept "edge" science as fact, but the book does make an interesting read. Donald Hosek 20:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Imagine two overlapping camel humps, one centered just slightly to the right of the other. These are two bell curves representing the average speeds of European and West African (ancestry) men. The vertical axis is number of people; the horizontal axis is speed. So the biggest chunk of people in both groups have average speed. Now slice it vertically right in the middle and look at the right half. Those are the people in the fastest 50%. It will be about half black and half white (assuming you're dealing with populations of relatively equal size). Now go to the far, far right side of the graph so you're looking at the fastest 0.0001% of men. The vast majority of them will be black, because it's at the far ends where you have the biggest differences between the two curves. This is why sprint races are dominated by people with West African ancestry -- because when you focus on the extreme ends of the bell curve, the generally tiny and unremarkable genetic differences become much more apparent. -- Mwalcoff 05:28, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I seem to recall the Australian media, particularly that at the lower end of the spectrum, made a bit of a sensation in 2003 of Patrick Johnson becoming the first white man to ever break 10secs. Certainly it was big news anyway as the first Australian to break 10secs. While not specifically denying his ancestry (he's the guy mentioned above of Irish/Indigenous Australian descent), I guess just saying he's the fastest white man in history makes for a better story. --jjron 09:34, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

phillies parking question?

Does anyone happen to know what the VIP section of the phillies MLB baseball team is.--logger 18:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Auto body parts

Do you know where I can find online directions on how to replace a headlight assembly on a 2004 Mercury Grank Marquis?

XXXXX

Online, no. But if you get a Haynes or Chiltons manual, it should show you in one of those. As they put extensive research into their manuals, I highly doubt that they offer the material on the net for free. You could check their web sites though to see if they have some sort of pay online option. You should find the official site of each at the bottom of their Wikipedia entries. Dismas|^(talk) 21:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Many public libraries have car manuals. 10 minutes with the book should tell you all you need. SteveBaker 22:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Longest top grade competition in any sport that has remained unchanged

Here's a good one for you.

A brief history of Australian rules football in Australia.

The Victorian Football Association was formed in 1877. This was premier competition until 1897 when a break away competition was formed, namely Victorian Football League. It began with 8 foundation clubs Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Fitzroy, Geelong, Melbourne, St Kilda and South Melbourne. In 1908, Richmond and University joined the VFL, however University only played up until the end of the 1914 VFL season. Then in 1925, North Melbourne, Hawthorn and Footscray were promoted up from the VFA. The competition then remained unchanged for the next 52 seasons, until South Melbourne relocated to Sydney in 1982.

If you can excuse the fact the Geelong was unable to field a team in the 1942 and 1943 seasons due to Australia's involvement in World War II, can anyone name any other top grade competition in any sport that can beat this feat. That is, where the clubs have remained unchanged for more than 53 consecutive seasons. I look forward to these answers. Cheers -- Ianblair23 (talk) 23:12, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is possible that the County Championship (the domestic first-class cricket competition of the United Kingdom) fits the bill. Between the addition of Glamorgan in 1921, and the addition of Durham in 1992, there were no changes in composition. You can find further information about the history of the championship here. Carom 23:26, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, you have got to love Brits don't you. Yes, that is what I am looking for. The competition began in 1890 with 8 foundation clubs Gloucestershire, Kent, Lancashire, Middlesex, Nottinghamshire, Surrey, Sussex and Yorkshire. Somerset joined the following season which was followed by Derbyshire, Essex, Hampshire, Leicestershire and Warwickshire in 1895. In 1899, Worcestershire was admitted as well as Northamptonshire in 1905. Then in 1921, Glamorgan took the total to 17 teams. They did suspended play for six seasons from 1940 to 1945 again due to WWII, but there was no change in clubs until 1992 when Durham joined. So that's a total of 65 seasons (1921–1939 and 1946–1991) without change. Excellent!! Any other answers? -- Ianblair23 (talk) 00:50, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not as impressive as the County Championship, but the National League remained unchanged between 1899 (when four teams were dropped) and 1953 (when the Boston Braves moved to Milwaukee). Carom 01:08, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, well done Carom. This lists all the teams from its formation in 1876 through to the Post AA merger. Referred to as the "classic eight" Boston, Brooklyn, Chicago, Cincinnati, New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and St. Louis played together from 1900 through to 1952. In 1953, Boston moved to Milwaukee. A total 53 seasons equalling the VFL record above. Good stuff -- Ianblair23 (talk) 03:47, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Would you count The Boat Race? Oxford v Cambridge since 1829, and annually since 1856 (except during the World Wars). Warofdreams talk 02:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you could count that as that is something different, ie. one on one events like The Ashes or The Game. I am more after competitions where multiple teams participate. Thanks -- Ianblair23 (talk) 03:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The makeup of the Ivy League athletic conference has remained unchanged since its founding, which was in either 1945, 1954 or 1956, depending on how you look at it. Considering the famous prestige and elitism of the league, it's doubtful the makeup of schools will change anytime soon. -- Mwalcoff 05:16, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have just found the article on the Original Six in regard to the National Hockey League. The NHL played its first season in 1917-18 with the foundations clubs of the Montreal Canadiens, the Toronto Arenas, the original Ottawa Senators and the Montreal Wanderers coming from the disbanded National Hockey Association. The Wanderers played only half the season and due to loss of Montreal Arena to fire and the club had disbanded by years end. Two seasons later the Quebec Bulldogs joined and the next season they became the Hamilton Tigers. 1924-25 saw the Montreal Maroons and the first Amercian team, the Boston Bruins enter and Hamilton exit. The following season saw two more American team join, namely the Pittsburgh Pirates and the New York Americans. The league's tenth season saw three new American teams enter, namely the Chicago Black Hawks, the Detroit Cougars and the New York Rangers as well the split into the Canadian and American divisions. This remained the case up until 1930-31 when the Pirates moved to Philadelphia and played as the Philadelphia Quakers. By season's end they along with Ottawa was gone. Ottawa then re-entered the league in 1932-33, moved to St. Louis and play as the St. Louis Eagles in 1934-35 and was gone for good by season's end. 1938-39 saw the league revert back to one division due the Maroons dropping out. 1941-42 saw the end of the Americans and from following season, 1942-43, the remaining six teams Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Montreal, New York and Toronto play together unchanged until the 1967-68 season when NHL once again exapnded. A total of 25 seasons unchanged. -- Ianblair23 (talk) 05:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Two more possibilities, though whether you could describe them as "top grade competitions" is open to interpretation: The Five Nations Rugby Championship between England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales and France was unchanged between 1947 and the addition of Italy in 2000 - 53 seasons. Also the Home International Soccer Championship between England, Scotland, Northern ireland and Wales - unchanged from 1923-1984 with a six year break for WWII - 55 seasons, and far more than that if pre-1922 Ireland and Northern Ireland are considered a continuation of the same team. Doing that (which is, perhaps, questionable) would extend it to 90 seasons. Grutness...wha? 06:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The other side of Major League Baseball, the American League was also stable for a significant period. Born out of the Western League, the eight charter members, namely the Baltimore Orioles, the Boston Americans, the Chicago White Stockings, the Cleveland Blues, the Detroit Tigers, the Milwaukee Brewers, the Philadelphia Athletics and the Washington Senators played in the inaugural season of 1901. The following season, the Brewers moved to St. Louis and played as the St. Louis Browns and Clevland changed their name to the Bronchos. In the 1903 season, the Orioles moved to New York and played as the New York Highlanders and Chicago officially renames themselves the White Sox. Apart name the changes of Clevleland to the Naps in 1905 and to their current name of the Indians in 1915, Boston to their current name of the Red Sox in 1907 and New York to their current of the Yankees in 1913, these eight team played together unchanged until the 1954 season when St. Loius relocated to Baltimore and play as the current Baltimore Orioles. A total of 51 seasons (1903–1953) without change. Ianblair23 (talk) 09:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

June 21

maneuverability driving help

When taking the maneuverability test, can someone please tell me how to turn the wheel when going to the left side of the top cone? Or the right side? I know you have to brake and turn the wheel to a half turn in some direction, but I'm not sure which. Thanks!

Perhaps it is obvious to some, but what are you manoeuvering? Bielle 03:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He or she is talking about the test they give to new drivers in the U.S. (in some states anyway). -- Mwalcoff 05:06, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

About a copper coin dated back to Das Dynasty in India

Hi,

I have a coin probably dated back to 1236-37 AD , would you please help me out by sending me a literature to study autheticity of the article. Its probably dated back to Das dynasty (Sultana Rijia's time) in India. Wuld you please tell me how many coins datad back to the same period in avialable worldwide?

Would you please provide me a picture of a coin dated back to Das Dynasty in India, So that I could match the letters on both side of the coin? Its a copper coin.

Regards Reeju Roy

New Zealand theme parks

What is the best and largest theme park in New Zealand? Is it Rainbows End?

I always thought New Zealand was the biggest theme park in Australia. Regardless, a quick google seems to suggest Rainbows End, although I didn't see a hard fact -- Phoeba Wright^OBJECTION! 09:31, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The South Island. Mhicaoidh 09:48, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discomfort

I'm not sure how to say this, but okay.

I believe that it is usual (at least in Western culture) less "inappropriate" for a man to be seen naked by men than by women. (Think of locker rooms and police searches.) Why is this?

I am male, and I feel much more uncomfortable about being seen nude and/or touched in a "personal" way by women than by men. For example, I was quite uncomfortable with the idea of a sort of genital examination being done on me by a man, but I had been much less (psychologically) uncomfortable when a similar examination was done on me by a woman. I know it was just a medical procedure, but it is still my "personal area" and I don't want other men invading my "personal area"!

Also, I am much less uncomfortable about being touched, etc., by women than by men. I have let dance partners know this. I am not uncomfortable with being touched and (I would imagine) even molested by a woman, but I am much more defensive around men.

This isn't normal, is it? If it is not normal, why are other men different?