Talk:Internet

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Add a Link?

Does anyone feel that we should add a link to the following site? [http://earlyhistory.googlepages.com/historyoftheinternet Development of the Internet] - Please give your reasons as to why or why not! Thanks! West wikipedia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by West wikipedia (talk • contribs) 18:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Because it does not cite it's sources, doesn't add anything already in Wikipedia, the site is non-notable i.e. it hasn't been cited as an authority by other reliable sources and it's authors are completely unknown. In fact if I google for earlyhistory googlepages com I get nothing. Please read WP:WEB (under criteria), WP:RS (e.g. Non-scholarly sources) and WP:NOTABLE and ideally please solve this one link first before you start posting to all the other entries you've been trying to make. Ttiotsw 18:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The links you wish to add to all these articles do not pass any of the criteria for external links, as has already been explained to you. Even if the links did pass the criteria, your objective is obviously to promote your web site, and that objective will not be accomplished here. I suggest you consider productive content editing rather than just attempting to get your site linked from numerous pages (see WP:SPAM). -- mattb @ 2006-12-09T19:02Z

I concur. To "West wikipedia": If you fail to understand Wikipedia policy, your account will be blocked and any edits from your account will be reverted. Wikipedia editors have already encountered several sites similar to yours, and the community consensus has been that links should such sites should be deleted as spam as well as possible Google bombing or link farming. --Coolcaesar 06:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Capitalization issues redux

I just reverted a bizarre statement that Nohat tried to insert into the Capitalization conventions section, in which he claimed that "the telephone network," "the power grid," and "the sky" were exceptions to the rule that proper nouns are written in uppercase in English. Actually, those are all common nouns, because there are many examples of each---every country has its own telephone network and power grid, and every planet with an atmosphere has a sky. On the other hand, I could manufacture proper nouns by simply inserting qualifiers that are proper nouns in themselves: "the AT&T telephone network," "the Pacific Gas and Electric power grid," and "the Earth's sky."

It's analogous to the difference in object-oriented programming between classes and objects. Common nouns are classes and proper nouns are objects (and an object is a particular instance of a class). --Coolcaesar 03:49, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but when talking about the entire global telephone network, taken together (and it is all connected), we still don't capitalize it. Why would the internet be any different? Same with sky—there is only one sky on the planet earth, and when people say "the sky" they are referring to the one sky on this planet, but we still don't capitalize. When I say "the sky is blue" I am referring to the one single instance of sky that exists on this planet. There is only one—it is unique in exactly the same way that the internet is unique—but we don't capitalize it. This observation is directly applicable to the capitalization of internet, so I have restored the commentary as well as a reference to a knowledgeable source (a linguistics professor) who makes the same argument. Nohat 06:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

"Internet" was capitalised during the bubble when techies ran it and people thought it was like God - omnicient and omnipresent. Since the bubble burst, non-techies have grown to resent the implication that anything like this could be so important. Familiarity breeds contempt. We've moved to "internet" on our website because people said that "Internet" was pretentious. We're based in the UK, BTW. Stephen B Streater 08:26, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Nunberg's argument is faulty in his reference to the power grid. He is a linguist, not an electrical engineer. He is clearly discussing an area outside his own sphere of expertise. For example, I cannot take my hair dryer to Europe and directly plug it into the wall because (1) the plug will not fit, (2) the voltage is different (220V v 110 V) and (3) the frequency is different (60 Hz v. 50 Hz). Furthermore, most countries cannot shift power to each other as easily as they can share computing resources under the modern distributed computing model. If California were having another energy crisis this summer, France cannot lend us a few hundred megawatts for a day, because there is no direct link between their power grids. So it is simply foolish to speak of one "power grid."

Also, it appears that Nunberg's commentary was originally a radio commentary for a show that is not a regular news program, which meant it was not subject to the rigorous editing that regular news programs, newspapers, or academic journals usually go through. Thus, it is highly suspect and probably falls under original research. See Wikipedia:No original research.

The point is that there are multiple power grids, running on all kinds of wacky technologies. Power grid, standing alone, is a common noun. But there is only one Internet (capitalized), which is a proper noun, that runs on TCP/IP.

As for "the telephone network," there are actually many telephone networks, despite the loose appearance of interoperability. Just look at the mess with telephone numbers. But there is only one Internet Protocol.

Also, to take Nohat's ludicrous argument the other way, I could argue that the Queen of England is unique, since there is only one at any given time, so why don't we just call her queen elizabeth ii? Or how about the president of the united states? Realistically, there are many queens, many presidents, many skies, many telephone networks, and many power grids. But there is only one Internet.

That is the argument that the majority of educated Americans adhere to (including the vast majority of computer journalists, computer programmers, and electrical engineers), and nothing is going to change that in the foreseeable future. Wikipedia is not about changing minds, only about providing information on the status quo. The blogosphere is for changing minds.--Coolcaesar 18:19, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

First of all, this is a question about language, so a linguist is exactly the kind of expert we should turn to for providing guidance. I fail to see how the fact that his opinion was presented in the context of a non-news radio show in any way diminishes his authority to present opinions on English-language usage.

Second, even if it is "foolish" to speak of one power grid, people do still speak and write about such things. The fact that the conception of something may be incomplete does not change how one capitalizes its name. Knowledge of a topic and knowledge of how to use the English language are NOT the same thing, and it is perfectly possible to write about something which the writer has limited knowledge of and still use unimpeachable English. The relevant facts of the matter are that whether or not "internet" is a proper noun is not a res judicata, and there are arguments on both sides of the issue that warrant mention in this article.

The statement "there are many queens, many presidents, many skies, many telephone networks, and many power grids. But there is only one Internet." is begging the question. There are obviously many internets, not only internets which are completely disconnected from the internet, such as networks operated by the Department of Defense, but the internet is itself composed of many internets. The term "the internet" is the one global internet, the same way that even though there are many skies, "the sky" is the one global sky, and even though there are many telephone networks, "the telephone network" is the one global telephone network (which uses a single protocol—voice). The things are exactly analogous, and arguing that they are not is sophistry.

No one is advocating trying to change minds, but it is important to include all legitimate viewpoints on this linguistic matter. This viewpoint, presented by a linguist, is perfectly legitimate and deserves mention in the article. While it is true that the capitalized convention is currently the most prominent, the noncapitalized variant enjoys some usage by respectable users of the language, and it is important to recognize not only the variety of usage, but the variety of reasons for the variety of usage. The analogy with "sky", "telephone network", and even "the power grid", despite your quibbles, is perfectly apt. Nohat 19:23, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're on to a loser here, Nohat and friends. Coolcaesar is prepared to be rude, beligerant, to insult you, your education and your country, and will try to destroy your will to help on WP before he'll let you change a word of "his" section on this topic. He's about the only one, and almost a year ago he himself wrote "news sources in Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom prefer "internet" much, much more", which is perfectly true, but I think he waits for these arguments to flare up. And it keeps happening, because he's wrong; but winning again means more to him than improving or balancing the article, it seems to me. (Feeling chewed and spat out from the last mauling I got) --Nigelj 21:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I have confidence in Coolcaeser's commitment to NPOV, that he will agree that there is room for all viewpoints on this topic to be fairly represented in the article. Nohat 23:07, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I still disagree with you, but as I am too busy with personal and work matters at the moment to get involved in another Wikipedia flame war, I will back down on this issue for now. --Coolcaesar 05:03, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for doing so, Coolcaesar. I've rearranged and tightened up the wording in the section a bit. I hope it shows in a valid way, both views on the subject and I hope you find it OK for now. --Nigelj 09:51, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

"... United Kingdom prefer "internet" much, much more", which is perfectly true ..." - nonsense. A number of pretentious (and frankly, ignorant) British newspapers may prefer 'internet', but educated Brits write 'Internet', which is the correct form. To say that a linguist is the right person to pronounce on a topic s/he understands nothing about is arrogant, as well as ignorant.

“Internet” is the proper name of the network most people connect to, and the word needs to be capitalized. ~ UBeR 02:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

IMHO, the Internet is the largest internet in the world... but I'm not getting into any flame war on this - it's obviously generating strong feeling ;-) Poweroid 18:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The Internet is a NAME of an internet. As such, I am sure Nohat would agree that as a NAME, it must have capital I. That is opposed to the TERM internet, which should have a lowercase i. The MAKERS of the Internet reffer to the difference between Internet and internet in the book Where wizards stay up late. I have made the correction to the main page. The term Internet to name that internet comes from Transmission Controll Protocal/ Internet Protocal (TCP/IP), which are the very basic protocalls used be the Internet. Corrupt one 00:36, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

British Invention

Wasn't the Internet a British invention? I'll edit this page with the info I found later, im going to put the info into words that other people can understand... Garfunkle20 11:39, 20 May 2006 (UTC)Garfunkle20

Well, the Web was - look up TBL.

I look forward to seeing your information. Stephen B Streater 18:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Especially since the only possible contributor on the British side of the pond was Donald Davies, who was English. And Davies' contributions were more on the theoretical side; as far as I know, he didn't actually do hands-on work on the IMPs or on the TCP/IP protocol stack itself. The key people are Licklider, Taylor, Kleinrock, Engelbart, Cerf, Kahn, etc. --Coolcaesar 19:04, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, my mistake. The article I read was about Boolean expressions. I dont know where I got that it contributed to the making of the internet, mabye with the exception of Scripting languages... Garfunkle20 13:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)Garfunkle20

Thanks for checking before you put it up on the main article. Stephen B Streater 13:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if I caused any hard feelings. I really should have read the article carefully. Hey! Gimmie a break! Im 16! Garfunkle20 14:32, 21 May 2006 (UTC)Garfunkle20

Actually Packet Switching was developed by a British scientist before his American counterpart as the phone company in America refused to co-operate. Without the packet switching, the Internet woud be impossible. Corrupt one 00:38, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Without several dozen other things, none invented by the British, it wouldn't be possible either :)

Charles A. Petrik

Isn't this Charles A. Petrik just a figment of someone's imagination? i.e. vandalism? I'm removing him. (Rajah 04:39, 11 June 2006 (UTC))

If he is indeed a hoax (which seems exceedingly likely), then I guess he'll be no more real over at Ronald Pelton. I'll go remove him. --Ashenai 04:48, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Picture of the internet

It seems to me that this article could use a picture of the internet. I was thinking either:

A: a big nice picture of planetary bandwidth/connections, etc.

B: A picture of the standard flowchart representation of the internet, a cartoon storm cloud that says "the internet", possibly with lightning.

Any thoughts?

--Zzthex 04:53, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

• Cute. There's a "picture of the Internet" floating around with just a monitor that says "Welcome to the Internet". But, seriously, no.Danny Lilithborne 05:24, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
  • It might help certain people make the point that the Internet is not a dump truck. 66.171.45.111 23:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course not, its a series of tubes. Anyways, a picture of a router or an ethernet cable would be a great addition.

• What about this one: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/map_of_the_internet.jpg ?

Web applications in workplace section

What is the purpose of including this minor factoid? What does this add other than a doubly redundant clause? Web applications are not even the primary reason why people can work from home, they are one among many means, all of which should not be mentioned here. Are we to add more and more about "e-mail", "remote desktop access", "also normal websites", "specialized proprietary software", "oh, and combinations of these", etc. 12:09, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

To be frank, I think the whole section is a bit waffly. However, Web applications give a new dimension to using the Internet from home or other remote location because all the data is available from anywhere without installing new software. This is qualitatively different from using traditional desktop applications with an Internet connection, where an installation is required. Web applications, for example, allow collaborative working from multiple locations including cyber cafés where installation of new software is prohibited. The cost of liccences and support for installing software on random PCs at home is a major limiting factor in working from multiple locations. If we're going to cut out something, I'd say something more like this:

• The Internet is allowing greater flexibility in working patterns, especially with the spread of unmetered high-speed connections. Today, many people have more flexibility in working hours and location. Web applications allow people to work (separately or collaboratively) through standard Web connected PCs.

This is a new area, but Web applications (which include a wide range of options such as web email, Google, Wikipedia and video editing) are a major factor in changing the work place options. Stephen B Streater 13:15, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, but it needs something along the lines of what you wrote above, rather than repeating that it's for "web-connected PCs" and without simply plunking down "using Web applications" without a minimal description of what it is. —Centrx→talk 14:24, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I've put something up - concise but covers these points. Stephen B Streater 15:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

ownership and value

so who owns the internet and how much is it worth?? imagine if someone else bought it... it would be billions! 203.211.75.42 06:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

That comment's not too bright. There are several reasons the Internet could never have been created or owned by one person, starting with the issue of the initial capital costs. Please see Project Xanadu. --Coolcaesar 19:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Additionally, the internet would have never gotten so popular if it was a private entity, as censorship alone, which is treated quickly as damage on the internet, would have killed it. 68.228.33.74 23:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I have read recently that other governments are becoming concerned about US government control of the internet. Other than buying the equipment - does it cost anything to be on the net - who do you send your check to ( the guy who owns it ) if anyone? The not too bright among us thought the US government started it on a small scale and then it grew - Al Gore seems to think so and he would never tell a fib. I believe censorship and bugging are quite common on the net - information appears to be capable of being purged if desired ( or so I have found - searching a few months later for a person ( of no international importance I thought ) the information, of which there was a lot, has gone ( is it possible only in one area or would it have to disappear everywhere - just curious, not a federal case).

Censorship in France?

I don't think any form of Internet censorship exists in France. It is unlawful to sell nazi memorabilia in France, but there is no difference in doing so online versus offline. As far as I am aware, the French government does not block information on the Internet in any way. --194.109.232.21 19:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

No, that is censorship because a French citizen can get an enforceable court order to require an online company doing online auctions in France to police all auctions for Nazi-related material, and to remove such auctions whenever it finds them. That was the key issue in the Yahoo! case a few years ago. In contrast, in the United States, such a court order would be unconstitutional under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, because the American public policy in favor of free speech requires a much higher standard of imminent harm (where the speaker would have to be explicitly urging physical violence against particular persons and would have to be speaking to an audience which he knew was capable of such violence). This distinction is commonly taught in Internet law courses in American law schools to illustrate the difference between American and French public policy on freedom of speech and expression. --Coolcaesar 04:57, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

That is an absurd definition of censorship, not a million miles from Clare Short referring to pornographic magazines as 'censorhip of women's right not to be harrassed by pornography'. The French model is not censorhip, but a prohibition on selling certain items - SELLING, mate, not MENTIONING.

A prohibition on selling certain items, because of the content that they communicate, is equivalent to censorship, because it is suppressing the communication of the content to an audience. For example, if selling any copies of Pokemon cartoons was illegal because Pokemon encourages the resolution of conflicts through violence or causes thousands of kids to have seizures (both technically true), then much fewer kids would ever know who are Ash and Pikachu. The point is that by limiting the sale of an object, one ends up limiting the distribution of the object as well as any inherent meaning it communicates. Both, of course, are the goal of the French law. In contrast, the United States tends to be more tolerant of abhorrent and disgusting political ideas, because it was founded by revolutionaries whose views amounted to treason against the Crown. Oddly, the U.S. is more intolerant towards nudity and sex in its media, though, than many other countries. --Coolcaesar 04:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe it is - I know it is - illegal to mention anything about the Nazis concerning the holocaust if it is in a nonbelieving manner. That's censorship - how you get caught I don't know - snitches or direct government search? - by any definition. China also seems to censor what gets into China.

About the start statement for this discusion part:

I would say it should be phased "There is no Internet censorship in France.", instead of "There is no censorship on the Internet in France." The difference is that Internet Censorship reffers to censorship relating specifically to the internet, and does NOT include all other forms of censorship that apply in France.

If you think that restrictions on SELLING does not qualify as censorship, but only restriction on mentioning things is censorship, then here is a question for you: If France has NO censorship on the Internet, is child pornography freely available online? If even THAT is allowed freely, then there is no censorship on the internet there. Corrupt one 00:54, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Al Gore

I could swear Al Gore made the internet in his basement in the early 1990s. What was he just bullshitting everyone?

But serially, it would at least be interesting to note that Al Gore said he invented them internets. ABart26 23:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

You are an idiot. He never said he invented he. He said he played a key role in helping to fund it. He did, voting in favor of funding DARPA. The news media twisted "funded" into "created", and then turned "created" into "invented". He never claimed to invent it, much like he never claimed to have "discovered" Love Canal. Coolgamer 19:39, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Please do not engage in trolling. In his role as a legislator, Al Gore was a major force behind the privatization and commercialization of the Internet in the 1990s — but he did not invent the technology. His role is already noted in the History of the Internet article. --Coolcaesar 16:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Please do not engage in humorlessness. One line clarifying about a well-known misquote is entirely appropriate. It's probably not a stretch to claim that Gore's statement is the most famous quote using the word "Internet". Woodshed 07:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Could we at least put somewhere in there that "the Internet is serious business"?

This is shameful. You mention AL GORE, but there is no mention of any of the TECHNICAL INNOVATORS LIKE BURT METCALF AND HIS ASSOCIATES WHO REALLY GAVE ARPA THE MEAT AND BONES OF THE INTERNET. THIS IS LIKE MENTIONING THE LIGHT BULB WITHOUT THOMAS EDISON. NO WONDER THERE IS DIMINISHING INTEREST IN ENGINEERING AND SCIENCE IN THIS COUNTRY!!!

70.106.60.44 14:36, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Apparently you haven't been interested enough to look up what you're talking about or to contribute meaningfully to wikipedia. Your so-called BURT METCALF is a fiction of your imagination. Bob Metcalfe's role in Ethernet is discussed in that article. As for History of the Internet, there's a whole separate article on it, linked from this one. Dicklyon 16:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Internet2

Internet2 seems to be listed as a research network in this article. However the Internet2 article says that it is a consortium which develops network technology, and that it is frequently mistaken for a network my the media. From the article: This is misleading since Internet2 is in fact a consortium and not a computer network. Could someone please confirm/disprove this? Matt73 23:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

internet

== [[Meaning of internet

             Importance of internet
             advantages 
             Disadvantages''''']] ==

---

Whoever is reponsible for the above I cannot tell.

My question is to that person(s) - May "internet" ever be written uncapitalized?

Is that a correct usage of this newly coined word?

Yours truly, Ludvikus 14:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

No, it may not. It is a proper name.

Actually, as mentioned elsewhere on this discusion page and in the article, the Internet is a specific internet. All networks of networks are internets, but only one is called the Internet. Corrupt one 02:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

vandalism

somebody has vandalized this page.Yet-another-user 04:21, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

i have removed the vandalism. Yet-another-user 04:27, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Internet and internet

hey guys I just did a search on internet <lowercase and i got redirected to the Internet Page. I am certain that there is a difference. Internet you all know and internet being a bunch of interconnected networks using all different kinds of protocals and topologies. am i mistaken? if not should we make a page for internet and link it to the Internet page?

Indeed, there is a difference between the Internet, and an internet.

I am of the opinion that this article should be renamed as The Internet, and that this articles current heading be used for the general sense of interconnected networks. -FrostyBytes 11:42, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey that is not a bad idea at all--Sniperwolf3 06:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, Internet spelled with a capital I is The Internet. One generalized rule for capitalization is that a word must be capitalized if it is the name of some person, place or thing that is the only one of its kind. Therefore, since there is only one Internet, it should be capitalized. Uncapitalized internet could simply refer to any of a number of networked networks that exist; however, using the term internet might cause some confusion, I think. Then there is the term intranet but that is somewhat different in it use. Katalaveno 14:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The Internet is a NAME of an internet. As such, I am sure you will agree that as a NAME, it must have capital I. That is opposed to the TERM internet, which should have a lowercase i. The MAKERS of the Internet reffer to the difference between Internet and internet in the book Where wizards stay up late. I have made the correction to the main page. The term Internet to name that internet comes from Transmission Controll Protocal/ Internet Protocal (TCP/IP), which are the very basic protocalls used be the Internet. Corrupt one 00:39, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Linked to on Slashdot

Here. Perhaps that could explain the spate of vandal IPs today. E. Sn0 =31337= 22:23, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Definition of Web on Internet page

I take issue with the definition of the WWW on the Internet page - a collection of documents? Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the web is a graphical interface we use to access files on the Internet? Because don't lots of people now say they're going to upload a video to the web, or download a podcast from the web? They don't say they're going to go look at an HTML page with some Ajaxy stuff that allows them to view a video.

Valid point - the correct word is resources, to include files, interactive Ajax applications, multimedia etc. I've updated the article, but kept it brief. The sentence above is interesting: maybe what they should say is something like, "they're going to upload a video using the internet to put it onto the web, or use the internet to download a podcast that they found by using the web". If they could be bothered, that is :-) --Nigelj 17:58, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, this is part of the problem with the Web combining aspects of hypertext and Internet technologies. Hypertext traditionally dealt with documents (that is, textual objects). Even today, the Web is primarily about documents; HTML documents still form the primary navigational structure (and their formal structure is called the Document Object Model, after all). A true hypermedia Web that transcends the document model would be one where people could seamlessly link from the middle of one Flash presentation to the middle of a QuickTime movie to a particular page in a 300-page PDF, but we haven't gotten that far yet. Although we can embed plug-ins in HTML documents, and although some plug-ins like Microsoft Word and Adobe Acrobat support direct links into HTML and other types of files, the linking isn't truly universal, with Flash's and QuickTime's refusal to expose all objects as links posing the largest obstacle. This is one of the issues that really gets on the nerves of hypermedia scholars, that Macromedia (now part of Adobe) and Apple are more interested in protecting their little fiefdoms rather than supporting a truly open and seamless Web. I hope this clears up the issue. --Coolcaesar 05:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Because almost all 'web' browsers support protocols other than HTTP, such as FTP, I think that the issue must be addressed. For those people who are trying to really understand or study Internet concepts, I think defining and distinguishing between web and Internet in this article is valuable information. I know this isn't the exact point brought up above but I think it's still worth a mention. Katalaveno 14:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

In Weaving the Web, the book written by Lee-burner about making the World Wide Web, he got the Web part from the fact it was the only term he could find that described how the resources interconnected from many points to many other points. The definition for Web has not changed, just the type of files that are used. It grew to include images, but they were not there originally, and so should NOT be part of the definition of the WWW

It would be most accurate in my point of view to state the the World Wide Web is a collection of interconnected FILES.

Still, I'll check my facts before I make any changes. Corrupt one 00:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Help with Portal:Internet

I'm finding it hard to find the time to maintain Portal:Internet, and I'm looking for co-maintainers. Anyone interested? Computerjoe's talk 17:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Section about Microsoft not NPOV

The section about Microsoft is clearly not neatral. It seems to be saying that Microsoft got its employees to blog to try to "impress" people with their technical expertise. In fact, many of Microsoft's employees (for example Raymond Chen) has been writing on the Internet long before they joined Microsoft and just continued when they joined. Some companies have tried to stop that sort of behaviour, others have not. There is no devious plan behind Microsoft's actions (or, rather lack of actions) in this case. I think it is more noteworthy to point out the companies that expressively forbid their employees to blog about their work (e.g. Google). Unfortunately the page is locked now.

Accuracy of statistics

In the article, it says "As of September 18, 2006, over 1.08 billion people use the Internet according to Internet World Stats.", but on the page that links to, it lists the total number of users as "1,086,250,903", which should be properly rounded up to 1.09 billion, not 1.08 billion. Monsday 21:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Autonomous Systems

I feel there is a need to cover the subject of autonomous systems, with respect to the internet. 202.54.176.11 09:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)nr, 28-Nov-2006

That is way too much information for 95% of Wikipedia users. Remember, most users don't know the difference between a compiler and a interpreter, let alone the difference between the Web and the Internet (yes, there is a difference). Perhaps a See also link at the bottom might be appropriate, but autonomous systems are too much of a tangent for any in-depth coverage here. --Coolcaesar 21:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

See Autonomous system (Internet) --Nigelj 22:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Would it not be correct to state that the internet is a conglomeration of interconnected autonomous systems? 59.93.32.35 13:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

No. Originally it WAS, as you put it "a conglomeration of interconnected autonomous systems." That is, each system that linked via the internet was able to function on its own, and to a certain extent without needing each other. However, I reckon that since Domain Names came out instead of just IP Address Numbers, we have become more dependent on a directory of them to connect to each other. Most of you would know the domain name for Yahoo!, but would you know the IP address Number for it? Also, we have had systems become more dependent on each other. A Business that sends out Emails to its customers to tell them what new things are in depends on the customers Email servers. It depends also on the BANKS systems to get the transation done! then their is the fuss with messing with things like all the Host system, the Server system, and others. That is assumeing the people who own it are also maintaining it, and don't have some other people running their security for them. There are many ways in which they are becoming more dependent on other systems. Some systems are still autonomous, such as BBS's (Yes, I THINK there are still a few out there. I'm not sure where, but I THINK they're out there), but most of them are heavily into security, like banks and government military systems. I must admit, some just want to controll it all themselves, and don't want to have to put up with other people's incompedences (Examples include some large businesses.) Corrupt one 00:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

CERN or USA

Who actually started th enet is it CERN or the USA Military?--Darrendeng 07:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, the USA Military created a lot of the Internet (internetwork) protocols and CERN was where the World Wide Web was invented. 80.42.143.242 17:52, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, in the book, Where wizards stay up late, which was written by people who MADE the internet, they were FUNDED by a US military department DARPA, but THEY developed it without military help. They were called the Advances Research Project Agency (add Defense to the start and you have the name of the funding military department), and their first network using the Internet protocalls was called the ArpaNet. Darpa developed the second network and called it DarpaNet.

It was made NOT by the US military, but by people FUNDED by them. I'll check my facts. Corrupt one 00:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

They were funded by ARPA, which was set up in the pentagon, and established by Eisenhower (or however you spell it) as a responce to lagging behind the Russians in technology. ARPA granted money out to people for research in all kinds of areas on the grounds that technology must develop all around.

The idea for the Internet came about due to people being annoyed at having to have terminals for many different networks in their officesand having to, log into each, them not sharing information and having to know the programming language for each computer system!

The only work done with the military in mind was what would come to be called packet switching, giving the internet is decenteralized formation. The packet switching never got of the ground in America until the people planing on connecting the different mainframes learned about it from a British guy who had developed just about the same thing on his own for different reasons. It was litteraly gathering dust in the militaries Research ANd Development (RAND) department! The Internet people took it for themselves.

Read Where wizards stay up late by Katie Hafner and Matthew Lyon. The start for the origins of the idea, and chapter 2: A Block Here, Some Stones There, for the information about Packet Switching. Corrupt one 01:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Section: Terminology

It feels to me as though the second paragraph in this section pretty much repeats the first, albeit in more complicated terms. The first paragraph gives a very clear and easily undertsnable, if basic, explanation of the difference between the Internet and the World Wide Web and then the second paragraph continues on to explain it in more complex terms, but will ultimately do nothing more than confuse the person reading this article. I may just be nitpicking, but I just thought I'd share my two cents on the way that section reads. --IndigoAK200 10:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I think I originally wrote what is now the first paragraph (I may be wrong about that - but if I didn't actually create it I certainly wrote a large part of its current wording, and have helped maintain it for some time now). At the time it was a second paragraph in the lead section. On the 21st November, a user at 70.50.237.242 added the new material with the comment, 'as suggested, merged "define and distinguish between" paragraph from Web vs. Internet which will now redirect here' (diff). I don't know what discussion led to this - maybe it was on the other article, or maybe I just missed it. The two paragraphs were later given a separate heading.

I agree that they both say the same thing in two different ways. My feeling is that the second paragraph is overly-technical for this early in the article, before any of these terms have been introduced or discussed. My suggestion would simply be to delete it: (a) it would also be redundant to come back to the issue later in the article and (b) I strongly feel that this confusion is so rife and so wrong that it needs to be laid to rest right up front - prefereably in the lead as it used to be.

But maybe I'm too close to this, due to my involvement in the original text. If this is all that remains of a whole previous article, probably someone somewhere feels it should be kept too. What the second paragraph says is not wrong, it just isn't the way I would explain it to anyone other than a trained and experienced network engineer - and they, most likely, would already be very familiar with the distinction! I'd move the original text back up into the lead too. --Nigelj 14:52, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that they both say the same thing, and that Nigelj was correct in avoiding a conflict of interest. Personnally, I think they need to be replaced with someing VERY simple, so that most people can understand it. Something along the lines of "The Internet in the name given to the group of interconnected networks using the Internet Protocals. Once the networking is established, we can run other protocals. One of them is called HTTP and is the basis of the World Wide Web. The World Wide Web was designed to help interlink different resources on the Internet, and provide better and easier access." Corrupt one 00:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Internet vs. Internet Service

I'm seeing a growing trend here in the U.S. of people referring to having internet service as having an internet. ISPs are doing this too when marketing their services (AT&T and Earthlink are notable examples). I personally find this rather odd. I can't think of any other service the average person consumes to which we refer in a similar manner. For instance, we don't say that we have a cable, we say that we have cable. The former would be confusing -- I personally have many different cables including network cables, power cables, phone cables, etc. Granted, there are some who can honestly say they have an inter-network (internet for short). Some businesses for example. However, that generally does not apply to everyday consumers. Comments? Siggimoo 15:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I haven't heard the precise usage you are talking about and I live in the Bay Area too. I have seen/heard the AT&T TV commercials where they say, "you can get Internet, cable, and phone all on one bill." Can you cite a particular advertisement or describe a particular TV commercial so that we can understand what you are talking about? --Coolcaesar 07:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Earthlink ran a TV ad campaign not too long ago in which their "staff" spoke about their Internet services, working at Earthlink, etc. One of the people stated, "...I will do all I can to get you a high-speed Internet that goes up to 70 times faster than dial-up." I've been looking around for an online copy to which I can link, but I'm not finding it. If I do, I'll post it here. -- Siggimoo 16:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Was that on a cable network? I have only over-the-air antenna. I haven't seen a Earthlink campaign for a long time. --Coolcaesar 20:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, for important issues like evolution of language, a single advertisement is insufficient evidence of a "trend" and to draw that weak inference would constitute original research in violation of core policies like Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. You need to get either several written examples (for example, if you can show that several prominent journalists have published that usage) or even better, an academic paper by a English professor or professional lexicographer. After all, the job of lexicographers is to update dictionaries to reflect current usage! --Coolcaesar 21:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Internet vs. The Internet

referring to Internet as "the internet" is a grammatical error which assumes that Internet is the only network that exists. Much the same as calling any Internet browser "Internet Explorer." --Rebent 14:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

It may not be the only network, but it is arguably the most important, it's like The Pill, i'ts not the only pill in existence, not even the most important, but massive amounts of people who hear the words "the pill" are going to think about birth control pill.--Chain Impact 15:03, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't understand how there can be 'massive amount of people'! Shouldn't it be 'large number of people' instead? Kazimostak 13:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Be that as it may, "the pill" is not a trademark. Should we change all the instances of "tissue" to "Kleenex" just because it's the most widely recognized? --Rebent 15:04, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

This is incorrect, see the Internet#The_name_Internet in this very article. An internet is any internetwork of networks, many of them exist. The Internet is the large, publich internetwork of networks that most people use. Wrs1864 15:05, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

you are obviously misreading it. Internet#The_name_Internet is about the convention of using upper or lower case is in the word "Internet" --Rebent 15:08, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The section, correctly says: "Under this distinction, the Internet is a particular internet, but the reverse does not apply." Wrs1864 15:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The section is about Internet capitalization conventions, not about internet article usage --Rebent 15:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, clearly, but that doesn't change the fact that there is "*the* Internet" and "many internets", of which the Internet is only one of them. Now, whether the capitalization alone is enough to make that distinction is somewhat open to dispute. Wrs1864 15:24, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rebent, and welcome to Wikipedia. I think if you have a look at some of the Wikipedia policy and guideline pages, you'll see that what we're trying to do here is to reflect and record current knowledge. I think you'll agree that most English speakers refer to 'the (i|I)nternet' millions of times a day both in writing and in speech. So that's what we do here. You maintaining that they're wrong to do so is an original thought on your part, at best. --Nigelj 16:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Nigelj, and welcome to Wikipedia. I think that if you had a look at the dictionary or any peer-reviewed encyclopedia you would find that, in the real world, just because many people believe in something doesn't mean it should be true. Perhaps you should add a section entitled "Internet vs. The Internet" and express your claims there, so as to keep the article NPOV --Rebent

There is only one Internet in the context of this article. The word "the" is providing the definite description when used with the noun "Internet" because though traditionally internet could mean any old bunch of routers it is now properly "the Internet" i.e. that big network based around the root DNS servers and with IP addresses issued by a central managing body (more or less ICANN). You can have other networks but you'd never refer to a bunch of routers using private address space as "the internet" but as an "intranet". In the context of one company you could say "the intranet". I think it would be very hard to make a claim of that "the Internet" is an improper definite description unless you can show us where these other internets reside ? Until then "the internet" sticks for me and "internet" is WP:OR. Ttiotsw 02:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

D'oh! great point about intranet. I've put a mention of it in the naming section. (dang, the autosign bot is *quick*!) Wrs1864 02:49, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

The internet is a series of tubes

I'm deleting the section that follows:

"The Internet is a series of tubes The internet is made up of a series of tubes. To operate the internet at it's full potential, linus is required. Linus can be acquired at your local retail JC Penney's clothing store."

The Mobile Internet is Incomplete

There has to be more about the mobile internet. Websites are created specifically for users of mobile phones. They tend to be smaller, require less input and text-based. Also, SMS/texting can fit in somewhere, i'm sure. - Ashton V. 08:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Cultural/Social Significance

There is no mention of the cultural and social impact of the internet in this article. Unless there is an unmentioned article I have not seen, then I feel that it be said there ought to be one. The internet is the most revolutionary advancement in human history, in every aspect of our lives, ever. Virtually nothing has made information more available, easier to connect to one another or change our lives. It is not unreasonable to consider the possibility of an article discussing the impact of the internet in human society, science and development.Eedo Bee

See Wikipedia core policies at Wikipedia:No original research, Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. I agree the social impact is relevant but assessment of such impact is so subjective that every assertion needs to be cited. Otherwise you're just asking for a huge edit war. --Coolcaesar 18:58, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I plan on adding an article, or at least a stub on Internet Communities. I have come across much information about increases in technology. If you look at things about sociology, the Internet, and other such things, you might be able to make a section for it. Possibly even an entire article! In some books like Virtual Nation and Cyber Cultures, there are things about the social impacts.

Things to look at include Social changes, Privacy, crime and the law, changing business practices and other such things.

Just PLEASE send me anything you get about communities on the internet! Corrupt one 02:32, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Very confusing sentence

While discussing protocols used in the Internet: (in the TCP and UDP part), it was written: "The latter is a best-effort, connectionless transport, in which data packets that are lost in transit will not be re-sent." To me, this is confusing, espcially 'best effort' and 'data packets that are lost in transit will not be re-sent' part! Would anybody enlighten me please?? Kazimostak 16:58, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Did you try following the link to UDP in that sentence? That article has, "UDP does not provide the reliability and ordering while TCP does. Datagrams may arrive out of order, appear duplicated, or go missing without notice. Without the overhead of checking if every packet actually arrived, UDP is faster and more efficient for many lightweight or time-sensitive purposes." Does that help? Once you realise what was confusing you, let us know and maybe update the article yourself if it actually is confusing in the way it puts this point across. --Nigelj 22:39, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The sentence quoted is an elegant and perfectly clear summary of how UDP compares to TCP. We do not need to make it unnecessarily wordy for novice Internet users or novice Wikipedia uesrs who do not understand how to click on hyperlinks to other articles to get the full explanation. We do not need to import the details of UDP into this article! --Coolcaesar 07:48, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

After Nijelj's explanation, things became clear to me. I think I did not read the sentence carefully, and that's all. By the way, I am neither 'novice Internet user' nor 'user who do not understand how to click on hyperlinks to other articles to get the full explanation'. And more importantly, I didn't know that there are ridiculous humbugs like Coolcaesar who infest wikipedia talk pages like viruses and try to 'enlighten' people in this boorish way! Again, Nigelj, thank you so much for your civility and politeness! Kazimostak 17:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Shopping

In the "Common uses of the Internet"-area, shouldn't shopping be mentioned, with ebay and Amazon as the most obvious examples? (Another example on how it can be used in work, is how movies are made, both animated and live action.) 193.217.195.42 22:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't that come under ebusiness? Corrupt one 02:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Significant Internet Events

Should the DDOS on the root servers count? As reported here: BBC News 86.130.104.36 18:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Language

"English is the most prevalent..." and most abused? Either it prevails or it does not. Can someone please edit this? Thanks Snoom haplub 22:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Prevalent means how much it prevales. To preval means it does it job. In this instance it prevales as being widely used with many things set up for it. If a language does not preval, then few, if any, sites will be set up to catere for that language. By saying that English is the MOST prevalent, that means it is the most commonly used language on the Internet. Corrupt one 02:34, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Internet's effect on sociology

I am looking for research on information about how the internet has created some online communities that would not of ever existed without them. by this I mean both the communities based on people who have something in common thanks to the growing technology (like hackers and web comic artists) and also communities whoes members previous to the internet were seperated by distance or fear of embaressement (or arrest) (Such cases include Furries, perverts, and peopophiles).

All I have been able to find is stuff on how the technology is changing the type of society in real life, and totally ignoring these types of communities!

If ANYONE can tell me where to find this information I am after, contact me, PLEASE Corrupt one 03:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Woof, vice magazine still wants to write that story about furries? how booooring... ;) --lynX

I was only giving examples off the top of my head. I could of just as easily of mentioned anarchists or different protest groups. Also, I was thinking about people who like having them as Avatars and roll playing anthromorthic animals in roll play games (and not the sexual kind either, although it DOES bring up the matter of internet communities being misunderstood by a few public cases of negitive exposure [both meanings intended]). I am also interested in how lynX would automatically think about Furries as in the fetish context immediantly, would know about a magaizine called Vice magainze, which caters to fetishes by the sound of the context s/he put in in, and that s/he seems to be so familiar with it that s/he is bored by it.

I would also like to ask that s/he keeps all comments in this section related to this subject.

The s/he is NOT accidental, since I have no idea WHAT fetishes s/he engages in on or off the internet, and I am covering myself in case they include MORFing. Thanks to no-one being able to tell anything about a person, and people lying about themselves, for all I know Lynx may be a fifty year old fat, hairy, foul smelling, drunked homosexual guy who likes being gang banged. S/he might also be an upstanding woman of good taste in her twenties, but since she knows that kind of magazine well enough to consider a Furry Fetish boring, I would not place any money on it.

Before anyone started accusing me of Trolling, I would like to find out lynX's response to this matter I have just raised about false identities used on Internet communities, another important matter when talking about the internet as a whole, as it deals with self representation.

I would also like for him/her to send me copies of the stories on Furries she mentioned in that comment of his/hers, as well as of any other fetish community s/he is ware of articles about, so I can see how Internet communities as a whole are portrayed there. Corrupt one 01:31, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Internets

The distinction was evident in many RFCs, books, and articles from the 1980s and early 1990s (some of which, such as RFC 1918, refer to "internets" in the plural), but has recently fallen into disuse.

I don't know how it'd be researched, but Internets seems to be more frequently used recently if only in the context of joking. Messatsu 04:45, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

While I personally agree with your assessment, this isn't something that's easy to support with hard numbers. What's more, it's likely that this usage is marginal in the grand scheme of things and only prevalent in certain parts of internet subculture. In any case, I think that the humorous usage of the plural "internets" is trivia at best, and its inclusion wouldn't improve this article in any significant way. -- mattb @ 2007-03-03T07:32Z

What about the example, "(like radio or newspaper, e.g. I've found it in internet)" used in the article? That's a joke, isn't it, like 'interweb' and 'tinternet'? No-one actually says 'I've found it in internet' even in America, do they? I'm planning on changing it to say 'I've found it on the internet' - has anyone got a problem with that? --Nigelj 11:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, including the difference between the Internet and internets would be a way useful. Most people do not understand what the Internet is, and think that netowrks can only be linked via the Internet. I am talking about people in the IT industries! This should tell them that the Internet is just ONE internet. You might specify that large companies have an internet containing smaller networks, called intranets. At the very least, it will help clear up confusion to SOME people. Corrupt one 03:03, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Adding a Link

Hello group. I had added a link to this article's resources and it was removed. I received a message that I should first propose the addition here before attempting to re-post it. I felt it was relevant and appropriate so I'm a bit confused as to why it was rejected. I've added links in the past without having issues, and I'm not trying to spam this excellent resource so perhaps I can get group approval or a clearer explanation as to what I did wrong.

Thanks. Respectfully, Mike Cherim 18:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia already has a good history of the Internet article. Internal links are always preferred to external ones, and generally external links cover material that is out of the scope for inclusion in Wikipedia. In this case, I don't think that the blog posting covers any ground that isn't already covered on Wikipedia. -- mattb @ 2007-04-02T17:20Z

Fair enough. Thanks for the fast response. -- Mike Cherim 18:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I would add it! X M ReBor* Neopetslovette 00:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Protection for 72 hours starting 6th of April 2007

Please if you can, review the article a little so we know its correct due to recent vandalisms. Avalean 17:00, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:BETTER#Size

I just happened to be looking at this article, and thought that I would mention WP:BETTER#Size. Also, I took a look at some of the subtopic articles which this article wikilinks to, and noticed some cases where info included here is more detailed than the information in the subtopic article. I've got too much on my plate right now to participate in any large way in improving this apparently suboptimal situation, but I thought that I would at least mention it here. -- Boracay Bill 06:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

The End of the Internet

I had once read on a newspaper, I think, that the Internet would run out of space around the year 2008... Is this true? If so, shouldn´t it be mentioned at the article? ♠Tom@sBat 21:57, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The Internet actually ran out of space in 1997 and we're just cramming pop-up ads into it to cover it up. JuJube 22:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Heavily covered in IP address starvation. Escape to IPv6 while there's still time! :-) --Alvestrand 23:34, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the link! :) ♠Tom@sBat 20:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

What is this space you are talking about? Maybe you should explain in the article? What is the Internet made up of anyway. Neopetslovette 00:17, 2 June 2007 (UTC), PS, if you know, leave it on my talk page?

Since the internet has no actual physical size, then there is no way for it run out of room that way. If you are referring to IP addresses, then there MAY be a limit to that, since there IS a limit to numbers for the addresses. Web Addresses are just word translation of the IP addresses, which are in numbers. That MAY be what he was talking about.

It would be theoretically possible to keep going indeffinatly using what there is as HOST sites, but how many people would want to share their site with THOUSANDS of others in this compeditive world? Corrupt one 00:59, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

if Al gore is not mentioned ONCE in this article, then we know we have a problem

Wasn't his a leading force behind the internet? 71.182.73.134 05:48, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Even i who hate al gore, knows that al gore deserves to be in this article. his name is synonymous with the internet, after all he did invent the internet. You wikipedia moderators are a funny breed. Whatevers. Manic Hispanic 06:04, 4 June 2007 (UTC)