Talk:BioShock

Winter Blast vs Cryo Shards editing

Recently a video came out involving the Creative Director of BioShock and one of the level builders showing three methods of tackling a room. The video showed the HUD. One of the Plasmids had a different name which said Cryo Shards.--24.7.162.39 01:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The video in regards to this discussion is at http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21277.html--67.161.191.137 01:06, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Rapture & Plagiarism

Selections of this article are either plagiarised from http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/rapture.html, or vice versa.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.45.7.200 (talk • contribs)

I wrote one of those sentences over a year ago. I'd guess that some more was written by other here.--Drat (Talk) 10:05, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Joe

In the Bioshock previews, the developers constantly refer to the player character as Joe. Should this be substituted in?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.236.200.31 (talk • contribs)

Joe Faulstick, the Associate Producer for the game, is the guy playing the game in the E3 video.--Drat (Talk) 03:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Engine

Isn't bioshock built on a very heavily modified version of the Unreal Engine 2.5, rather than the Unreal Engine 3?--Dbd 11:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

According to this topic, they are still using the Vengeance engine, but "the rendering engine and lighting has been completely re-written". Look for chumpface. That's Ken Levine. I've changed back the bit about the engine, and linked the topic.--Drat (Talk) 12:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

This information is correct. The current engine is known as the Vengeance Engine 2 (VE2), and is heavily modified from the VE1 version used in Tribes:Vengeance and SWAT 4. The rendering engine has been completely rewritten from the ground up to be DX9-based and HLSL-driven with HDR, realtime soft-shadows and dynamic lightmaps, and Shader Model 2.0 as the minimum (SM 3.0 preferred). The core of the engine has been optimized for the CPU and memory requirements of next-gen consoles, as well as taking advantage of multiple processors for rendering, physics, audio, and asynchronous data loading. It has been revised to support streaming assets and checkpoint-style savegames, and there are completely new subsystems for audio, UI, and animation. (note: I am not sure how to make this information verifiable, but I am on the development team for this title.) --Chriskline 17:41, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

During an Interview at E3 2006, Ken Levine responded to a question asking about Unreal 2.5: "No, we've moved to Unreal 3, we've done a lot of modifications on top of it, all the water effects we've added, and we've added a lot of features like water..." E3 06: BioShock Interview Transcript --mriker 15:46, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Add the info and cite the source. I'm taking a backseat as I'm going on a self-imposed info-blackout until its released. I want to avoid spoilers.--Drat (Talk) 15:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

BioShock using UE2.5. and australian studio not using UE3.0. it's still modified UE2.5. not 3.0 Irrational Games Jobs page "Unreal 3 Material Shader Editor", "Unreal 3 Editor". that's not UE3.0 editor. it's "UnrealEd 3.0" editor. UE2.5 editor version is a UnrealEd 3.0 including UT2003, UT2004, Unreal 2 and many licensees Unreal Engine 2.x games.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 3d engineer (talk • contribs)

Unreal 3

Ken Levine, the head person behind the game said they were using Unreal 3 at E3 in May.

From[1]:

AMN: "Speaking of the graphics engine, it's running on Unreal 2.5 right?"

Ken: "No, we've moved to Unreal 3, we've done a lot of modifications on top of it..."

If you don't believe me, read the full transcript or watch the video here (skip to about 18:00).

There's also this:

Ken: "it's all powered with the Unreal 3 engine..." (skip to 5:20).

I don't care what Chris Kline said above. That was in February. Ken's interview was in May. Funny fact: A lot can happen in three months. Unless you've got a newer source saying they've gone back to Unreal 2.5, leave it as it is.--Drat (Talk) 14:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

it's not. not using UE3.0. BioShock still based on UE2.5.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 3d engineer (talk • contribs)

As DX10 only will be available to Vista, and that UE3.0 requires DX10, this game can't be released to XP. Right?— Preceding unsigned comment added by RedSaint (talk • contribs)

No, UE 3 does not require DX10. RoboBlitz and Rainbow Six: Vegas are Unreal Engine 3 games and do not require DX10. UE 3 was designed to work on DX 9/10, Xbox 360, and PS3.

Ayn Rand

Perhaps this article should mention that this game was influenced by Ayn Rand (Andrew Ryan, clearly a word play). A.T.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.220.246.20 (talk • contribs) .

Certainly. Ken Levine has stated numerous times that her works are an influence. But you'll need a source for the Andrew Ryan bit (obvious now you mention it, but too speculatory for article space).--Drat (Talk) 04:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

There's a recent screenshot with "Atlas was right" sprayed across a painting. This would suggest a link to Rand's Atlas Shrugged, which deals with the collapse of civilisation after all the great minds stop thinking.

Link to image: http://www.firingsquad.com/media/galleries/bioshock_aug28/05.jpg

(It's also possibly a reference to Atlas as the King of Atlantis, though I'd suggest this is less likely). -- Warthog2k 10:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

There's further evidence of Rand's influence posted by Ken Levine on the TTLG forums: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1501213#post1501213

It's an interesting discussion, though I'm not sure how much of it would be relevant to the Bioshock topic. More specifically I'm unsure how it should be presented within the article. -- Warthog2k 12:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

It would probably go under influences?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.176.225 (talk • contribs)

Which studio?

Is this being done by the Quincy studio, or the Canberra studio?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by BrotherEstapol (talk • contribs) .

The Quincy studio.--Drat (Talk) 23:58, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Platform

I think the listed platforms should be changed to only show the confirmed ones. Speculation about a possible ps3 port is discussed in the article but I don't think it should be stated in the info box as a definite until it is confirmed by the developers.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.234.111.45 (talk • contribs)

This is a scan from the Official Playstaion Magazine(UK) http://www.maxconsole.net/content_img/biops3.jpg, reported here http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=13149 and also listed as a Ps3 game by gamespot, any other sources to confirm that?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.13.120.79 (talk • contribs)

It's not coming out for PS3, at least as it stands now - http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/bioshock/rumor-debunked-bioshock-not-coming-to-the-ps3-225240.php --Rodzilla 07:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Also stated on the official site as Pc and Xbox 360 only, and not PS3. Darthnader37 22:01, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Bot vandalism

Were those edits really necessary? >:( JAF1970 01:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

DirectX 10

Anyone know if Bioshock will run under DirectX 10 or 9? The DirectX version should probably go in the article since the game engine (accurately?) is alrady in there. This would probably be helpful to some readers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.181.82.100 (talk • contribs) 02:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

DX10 --Trusader 22:08, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely, positively, ZERO games will be DX10-only (at least for the next 3-5 years). That's a totally nonsensical and rediculous propsition for anyone. PC games don't make money as it is...why would any company slash their potential customerbase by such a startling degree?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.1.130.41 (talk • contribs)

I think he was asking if it was going to support directX 10 and use some of its capabilities. That is important to add in the article if someone can find out. We all know its going to support directX 9.0c. But I haven't seen anything about 10. Crysis will be supporting both and I believe many more games in the future will support both like you said for another 3-5 years. But saying PC games don't make money is just dumb. Any game has the potential to make money depending on its budget and its outcome (if they didn't generate any profit, then they wouldn't be made).155.109.5.21 17:22, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

PC Games still make a lot of money, especially in Europe. After scouring the web for a while (about 3 minutes ;P), all I have been able to find is that it supports DirectX 10, but not actually find any official sources saying so, just a bunch of fragmented posts by random people. Torte... of Doom! 21:57, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Here is the answer in its entirety (directly from the cult of rapture, the official bioshock community site): DX10 UPDATE April 25, 2007 Many of you have been asking if BioShock would utilize DX10 feature set. The official answer is that yes, BioShock will be utilizing DX10. However, for those of you who won't be upgrading by August, don't worry. BioShock will also run with DX9.

And here is the link for you nonbelievers http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/home.html— Preceding unsigned comment added by Darthnader37 (talk • contribs)

Many thanks! :). Torte... of Doom! 18:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Added a sentence about that to the Engine section of the article. --asqueella 13:34, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Release Date?

I know the official release window is "Spring 2007", but someone from 2K games on the Through the Looking Glass forums has said here (5th post down) that it is now scheduled to be released "June 2007". Is this worthy of note in the article? -- Grandpafootsoldier 07:04, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Independent Research not allowed

I've worked on research materials and encyclopedias. Hello? They UTILIZE INDEPENDENT RESEARCH. (rolling eyes) JAF1970 16:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

"Big Daddies"

Me latest issue of PC PowerPlay says that these Big Daddy things are actually called "Big Brothers", which compliments the "Little Sister" creatures' names. Also note I am too lazy to look into this myself. Razorthe6249th 10:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

It may still be up in the air. In the Developer Walkthrough they are referred to as Big Daddies, but that came out in September. Kalaong 00:10 16 February 2007 (UTC)

"Trailer Monologue"

BTW, we have to find a way to get Andrew Ryan's monologue from the first trailer in here somewhere.

A man has a choice. I chose the impossible.

I built a city where the artist would not fear the censor.

Where the great would not be constrained by the small.

Where the scientist would not be bound by… petty morality.

I chose to build… Rapture!

But… my city… was betrayed by the weak.

So I ask you, my friend. If your life were the prize, would you kill the innocent? Would you sacrifice your humanity?

We all make choices… but in the end, our choices… make… us!

Kalaong 00:19, 16 February 2007

Why? This isn't a fansite.--Drat (Talk) 11:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Bleah. Just thought it described the game world well. Reminded me a bit of the scene in Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow with Laurence Olivier. Not to mention it was really cool. Not impressed, huh?

Kalaong 06:30, 16 February 2007

Being "cool" is not one of Wikipedia's aims.--Drat (Talk) 13:04, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Tragically obvious on so many levels. 24.218.218.9 02:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Engine

http://www.irrationalgames.com/company/aus_jobs.cfm#LevelDesigner

Here at Irrational Games we can boast about taking gaming innovation to the next level. Our recent success at the EEE saw us take out the much coveted 'Game of the Show' award for Bioshock from IGN, Gamespot and Gamespy. IGN also saw fit to dub us their 'Developer of the Year 2005'.This is the type of exposure and experience you can share by joining our award winning team in our Australian Studio.

Based in the heart of Australia's national capital, Canberra, we are experiencing booming success in the industry and due to this growth we are in need of experienced and passionate Level Designers to join our team.

Level designers are directly responsible for creating gameplay through level building and scripting. You will need to combine a strong aesthetic sense and interest in creating visually interesting spaces with an ability to understand how gameplay is created. You will also need to possess the technical skills to ensure that your levels work within the constraints of the game technology.

As a level designer, you will be directly supervised by the lead level designer who will review your work and determine if it is artistically and technically sufficient to use in the final product. You will be required to work with artists, designers and programmers to ensure that your work is appropriate for the game design.

At Irrational, we are currently working with Unreal Warfare™ technology to create next generation titles. Experience with this technology building mods or commercial products will be highly valued but similar experience with other technologies, like Half-Life™ or Quake™, is also valued.

"Unreal Warfare™ technology" is not UE3.0. it's UE2.0 used to previous using irrtional's SWAT 4 and Expansion and later build UE2.5 used to previous using irrational's Tribes Vengeance.

BioShock is a UE2.0 or UE2.5 too and irrational's new project [X-COM] will be using UE2.0 or UE2.5 too.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Unico master 15 (talk • contribs).

That is original research. Besides, Irrational's Australian studio is only loosely working on Bioshock. The devs working on Bioshock have repeatedly stated they are using Unreal 3. IF and ONLY IF you have a source (and a relatively new one too) that explicitly says Bioshock is using Unreal 2.5 or 2.0 or anything other than 3.0, can you change it.--Drat (Talk) 04:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

fan sites

external links should be kept to a minimum. this is not a link farm and there is simply no reason to include links to a fan site that is already in the link section of the offical site. basically, the information that is provided by adding a link to the offical site already includes all fan sites linked from the offical site. therefor, adding links already included on the offical site merely clutters this article. Tetracycloide 16:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Morality Issues

I'm surprised no-one has commented on the fact that you can kill children in this game. And it's very graphic. Most people would say there is something very wrong about that, despite Ken Levines excuse about giving the player 'morality choices' do we really need a game that encourages slaughtering small children? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fangor (talk • contribs) 02:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

Your an ass. Just my opinion, but it's true. Just shut up and die now, please. kthxbye

Morality seems misrepresented here...it's been said you can’t kill little sisters on a few different gaming sites, and the BioShock Community site Cult of Rapture says you can only "harvest or save" them. Poblan 01:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC)Poblan

This isn't a discussion forum about the game.--Drat (Talk) 06:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Come on, killing is wrong period. It doesn't matter the age of the victim. What you said sounds like "Don't kill the children, but adults are fair game". This game wants to engage the player on a deeper level than the standard kill-everything-that-moves FPS fare--Cyhborg 10:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

System Shock influence

Unfortunately it seems 2K have taken a rigid stance against mentions of their competitors' products and IPs. Hence, lead designer Ken Levine is no longer allowed to talk about System Shock 1 & 2 and how they have influenced this game. Just as well there are many old interviews making such mentions.--Drat (Talk) 13:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Lead designer Ken Levine has often mentioned how BioShock was envisioned as a "spiritual successor" to the System Shock franchise and how those titles have influenced this game. 64.131.175.229 01:27, 15 May 2007 (UTC)Poblan

It's kind of retarded, if you ask me. Especially since System Shock 2 was developed by- suprise- Irrational. dethtoll 21:54, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

PlayStation 3

The game is not being developed for PS3. Stop adding that it is, unless a NEW source arises (not an old source from last year), confirming development for the PS3.--Drat (Talk) 07:55, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Trailer information

The game trailer is such a good one and unique. I've created a section and done quite a bit of work on it, although as I'm sure you know theres some words that are inaudiable in the trailer, but I did my best to get the right ones. :) Daveuk07 17:29, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Currency

The Initial Story section may contain an inaccuracy: according to a post on the Cult Of Rapture Forums by a member of Irrational (seen here [2]), Adam is no longer the currency in the game as it was originally. Therefore, Adam may not be the dominant currency in the city as it is stated in the Initial Story section. Psyclone 01:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Plasmids

Possibly an interesting detail that shows the designers have done their homework : "plasmids" in microbiology / molecular biology are DNA molecules that can be transferred between microorganisms under certain conditions or artificially introduced into cells by researchers to genetically modify the organisms, conferring additional genetic characteristics that are not essential but may give a fitness advantage in terms of evolutive fitness. This has important consequences. In nature, transmission of plasmids between bacteria is one of the main causes of the widespread problem of antibiotic reistances, for example. By using this concept to represent special abilities, in parallel with the slogan 'Evolve!' the game designers enhance the science-inspired backstory and ambience. It's an interesting choice because the details will be lost on most users, yet they took the trouble anyway. Maybe it would be worth pointing out in the article? IGollum 09:00, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

It'd be original research if you put it in the article, without word from the designers.--Drat (Talk) 12:44, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

True, I can't speak for the designers, so I'm only speculating as to their motivations for choosing that word. But the parallel with the scientific reality of plasmids is interesting in itself, I think. (disclaimer : I'm a microbiologist working on plasmids, so I think everything about them is interesting... I'm especially thrilled to see them popping up in a game, so I want everyone to know about them ^-^) IGollum 01:50, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Tonic section

Whoever created the tonic section obviously did so by copying text directly from the official Bioshock website. Unfortunately, since that info was clearly written in the style of being an in-game universe advertisement, I think the tone is inappropriate for an encyclopedia. Unfortunately, some of that text is rather cryptically written so it can't be re-written. Should that section be deleted until further info be released? Psyclone 19:00, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Ammo Types

I've been looking at the "Fisheries Developer Walkthrough" trailer at Gametrailers and noticed something: I don't think that all weapons have the same three ammo types: if you look closely the pistol in that trailer is fitted with "Standard Pistol Bullets" and the other types I assume are the anti-personnel and anti-armor. This maybe true for all the weapons that use actual bullets (Pistol, Shotgun and Tommy gun), but the others, such as the crossbow and grenade/RPG launcher, will obviously use others. Therefore, I'll alter the part about the "three ammotypes" with the part about "one that has to be revealed" Psyclone 09:36, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Customization

Half of this section seems to be written like some sort of cheesy in-game advertisment (even though the game isn't released.) BURNyA 17:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Cleaned it up a bit. Removed the fansite/ad-like crap and just kept the lines detailing, in simple terms, what each customization does. dethtoll 21:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Nifty BURNyA 21:54, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Bioshock 2

Anyone notice that in the September 2007 issue of PC Gamer (U.S.), the front cover claims to reveal "Bioshock 2 + your 1st look at Fallout 3!". Yet I couldn't find anywhere in the issue, not even in the preview of Bioshock, any mention of Bioshock 2? What am I missing? Is this just an example of false advertising and PC Gamer lying or what? 72.49.194.69 01:48, 26 July 2007 (UTC) Joshua

If anyone doesn't feel like checking their local newsstands or gamestop/EB to see if my story checks out or not. Please visit the PC Gamer website at http://www.pcgamer.com/ On the first page of the website they have a section called "On Newsstands Now...." which displays, legibly, the front cover of PC Gamer I was talking about. 72.49.194.69 03:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC) Joshua

It's probably a mistake. Given that most games these days are sequels, whoever was doing it probably just put the 2 on by accident. Maelin (Talk | Contribs) 06:30, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the responce, sometimes it's hard to get a responce in these discussion boards. You are probably right, in which case, I got all excited over nothing but a front-cover top-story misprint. It just surprises me that no-one at the PC Gamer editorial team noticed this before sending it off to print, such a glaring error. I guess they are definatley not a punctual people. But yes, thank you for speaking on the topic. I actually have other topics in discussion for the articles, 'F.E.A.R. sequel' and 'Vengeance Engine' and 'Too Human' and 'The Sims' and 'Half-Life 2: Episode Three' and 'System Shock 2', all articles I started thread(s) for in their prospective discussion board, which no one has commented upon so I rarely get the word of Wikipedia editors. 72.49.194.69 21:57, 26 July 2007 (UTC) Joshua

Well in EGM (July), Ken Levine does mention Bioshock 2 when the writers mentioned some minor gripes about the game.--Cyhborg 16:37, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

The reason it is "sometimes hard to get a responce in these discussion boards" is that this is a discussion board about what should or should not be included in the article/ entry. It is not a discussion board/ forum where you can post quasi-related issues that have no real relation to the article. Unfortunately this will probably continue to be an problem.

The issues I mentioned in the discussion board are not quasi-related but rather directly related to the article. Go read my stuff in System Shock 2 and Half-Life 2 Episode THree and F.E.A.R. Sequel and Vengeance Engine and The Sims, all the aforementioned have to do with citation issues, when information is given in those articles without a citation or source. That is not me writing about quasi-related stuff, for example, the Vengeance engine article discusses Xcom as using the Vengeane Engine 3 though there is no indication of this and Irrational never formerly said this. In the F.E.A.R. Sequel board I noted that there is no mention of which game engine the title is using. In the Sims board I asked where we got the source for a claim made about the Sims 3. So on and so forth. Not quasi-related if you actually read anything I wrote. 72.49.194.69 21:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC) Joshua

It's real nice that you ignore me too. 72.49.194.69 20:12, 1 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

Enemies

The enemies section seems to blur ingame and real world information. It also seems more like a narrative than an objective description. I'm not confident enough in my own writing abilities to fix it, but I think it needs attention.Anthr4x 17:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)