Talk:Alpha et Omega

This article is in dire need of expansion so I have expanded it and added some references. Any help with references would be great. Kephera975 21:51, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of sources, the Clark source you used appears very dubious. The ISBN was good, but belonged to another (fictional) title, "The Broken Seal and Other Cases". I did a thorough search for the title you used, but came up empty handed on Google, Amazon.com and Amazon.uk. Any suggestions? Was it perhaps a self-published book that never got an ISBN? I'm afraid such a book couldn't be used as a reliable source. The book to which the ISBN belonged was published by "Authorhouse", a vanity press. IPSOS (talk) 00:29, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I'm still looking for better sources. If you are familiar with the history of the Golden Dawn, perhaps you could find some as well? This article definately needed to be expanded. Kephera975 01:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

So what do you think about moving the article? Are the sources you list for the full name reliable? On the other hand, Wikipedia articles are supposed to be at the most commonly used form of the name, which I think is unarguably Alpha et Omega. If we keep it here, I think that name should be mentioned first, then (full name Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega) with the footnote. It's always best to make sure the first mention of the subject matches the title, then give the alternates and explanations. IPSOS (talk) 01:21, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. First on the moving question. How are you suggesting possibly moving it? Kephera975 01:27, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm not. But since you've changed the bolded subject introduced in the article, I'm trying to find out whether you also think the article should be moved to match the title to that subject. Or should we reverse the order in which the common name and the full name are mentioned? IPSOS (talk) 03:04, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, the common name for the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn is the Golden Dawn. Therefore, it is my opinion that the full name should be the title and the common name should be used in most of the article so that it is not awkward, just like how it is done with the main article for the sake of uniformity. Kephera975 03:38, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I seem to have misplaced my Francis King book as far as the page number, but I'm sure it will turn up. Kephera975 03:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Retaining "Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn" as Outer Order

I don't believe that this is accurate or that the source supports it. Please provide a quote. Even if it does, the link is misleading, because the page linked to is about the Order which was closed. IPSOS (talk) 03:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for bring this up on the talk page. As far as the contradiction you have placed on the page, are you talking about the Golden Dawn being the outer Order of the historical A+O?

Here is the quote from the Greer book from Dion Fortune who was initiated into the A+O in part: ".. anyone who made a study of them also speedily found out that the system of correspomndences taught in the G.D. they had got something of inestimable value." That is straight from the lips of someone who was initiated into the outer order of the A+O in 1910. As Greer states: "Dion Fortune was initated into the London Temple of the A+O in 1919 under the leadership of Brodie-Innes." This is from page 350 in Women of the Golden Dawn. I hope you have it so you can look it up for yourself. Kephera975 03:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)