Talk:Fuller Theological Seminary

NPOV?

Quotes like these all seem very biased, almost advert like.

academic rigor and ethnic and denominational diversity

The faculty consists of leading Christian thinkers and scholars with equally diverse backgrounds. 

Students and professors often hold diametrically opposing views and vehemently debate a wide range of religious and ethical issues

Just my two cents. Cornell Rockey 12:24, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

there's every chance that whoever edited this article pulled these lines out of an advertisement, although I can't confirm that. Feel free to edit the lines to something more neutral.--G.B. Blackrock 22:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Dumb. The quotes are perfectly fine and reflect Fuller to a tee.

Lord, what a whitewash! Is there any real history of Fuller available, such as includes the career of co-founder Harold Ockenga, the sad fate of former Fuller President E. J. Carnell, or the 1970s "battle for the Bible"?

"Left of Center" not an opinion?

There has recently been a rash of edits on this page in the "Criticisms" section. Apparently some people feel that Fuller is too liberal. I do not dispute that Fuller is not as right-wing as its founders, and has moved a considerable distance to the "left" in the nearly 60 years since its founding. However, I do feel that attempts to keep this article having a neutral tone have been met with dismissiveness. Despite what the most recent editor claims, to call something "Left of Center" is a statment of opinion, no matter how many people observe it and believe it to be the case. I would argue that the editors who claim that Fuller is "left of center" believe that that "center" is far more to the right than is in fact the case. Can we get some arbitration on this?--G.B. Blackrock 04:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Definitely agree that "Left of Center" is a matter of opinion. Fuller's statement of faith (to which all faculty must agree prior to employment) is very moderate, not liberal in the least. However, to a conservative, it seems liberal and to a liberal, it seems conservative. Fuller has been caught in the middle for years (and everyone blames the School of Psychology). In the grand scheme of things, Fuller is about as smack dab center as is possible at a seminary. While there are subjects taught and discussed that aren't particularly palatable for extremely conservative theological thinkers, Fuller's statement of faith is very clear and very middle of the road. Just because something is taught and/or discussed doesn't mean that doctrine is the school's theological stance; it simply means that the topic is important enough to warrant recognition.Tamara Young 15:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

The first part of the selection that follows needs a citation showing evidence that Fuller does indeed currently "advertise itself" in this way. As for the latter half of the sentence, short of citing a poll of evangelical seminary presidents, I hardly think one could call such a statement neutral.

Fuller advertises itself as a moderate evangelical seminary, theologically between Princeton Theological Seminary (liberal) and Dallas Theological Seminary (conservative), but there has been some question within the larger Christian community as to whether Fuller truly does lie in the middle of the conservative/liberal theological divide.

--76.177.33.20 03:30, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

One way to avoid the NPOV issue on this would be to quote specific evangelical leaders who have publicly decried Fuller as "liberal." The words "liberal" and "conservative," though, when applied to theological, aren't as clear as in the early 20th century. This whole section probably needs to be rewritten from a more neutral standpoint. --Tom Allen 23:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Fuller's Anti-American activities

I removed the paragraph on anti-American activities because it contained a great deal of material about supposed events on campus without presenting any references. I realize that everything that happens on campus isn't documented, but I was actually still on campus at the time of 9/11 and if someone posted something like that on a door somewhere, it was either hushed up pretty darn well or it's an urban myth. Something like that would hardly go un-noticed - particularly if there was an uproar or public outrage as the content stated.

As far as being "anti-war," Mennonite and Brethren faculty have been outspoken about "just peacemaking," particularly Glen Stassen (author of multiple books on 'just peacemaking'). If we're going to discuss Fuller faculty, staff, and student activities around politics and policy, let's be specific and avoid referring to "rumors." Tamara Young 18:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Ah, well, see that's the point. They're not really "rumors" because I am a former Fuller student and witnessed all of it myself. And the fact that you are a Fuller alum clearly voids your arguments, as you are obviously biased.

The fact is, I've found that Fuller has a horrendous reputation in the larger evangelical community. And you're not kidding anyone when you state the Fuller is not liberal - every faculty member there knows full-well that it is. When over 90% of your faculty is liberal, I wouldn't exactly say you're being honest when you advertise yourself as moderate, which Fuller clearly does (check the website-you won't catch a whiff of what Fuller is really like there). And the Princeton/Dallas comment is well-known among SOT students, so I don't know where you were going with that comment. So it's not as liberal as say, Princeton - big deal, that's not saying much! I'd say when you don't really even lie within the evangelical community anymore (which Fuller clearly does not), you're pretty darn liberal.

And as far as the 9/11 comment, I heard that it did indeed occur directly from a friend who personally witnessed it at Fuller. Perhaps being a psychology student, you weren't as aware of these activities as I was, being in the school of theology. And obviously there wasn't an uproar on campus, because the majority of people there hold to anti-American views! Plus, the faculty sweeps such occurrences under the rug.

For instance, in a required general ministry course, Glenn Stassen's feminist/socialist protege, Rachel Leigh Hunter, was a guest speaker one day. She eventually went on a 20 minute, anti-Bush, anti-war, anti-American tirade (yelling and spitting all the while) during which she made several extremely inappropriate comments that would made Ted Kennedy blush. Some of my favorites were: how right wing conservatives are "demon-possessed," how "democracy is not the answer" (implying socialism was), her "wish that America soon shares the fate of the Roman Empire," and "how she has considered marching in PRO-abortion rallies with her feminist activist friends on several occasions." And she's on the staff at Fuller - it doesn't get any more liberal than that, lady! My friend had the exact same class the next day, but interestingly, Hunter was not present even though she was scheduled to speak. Hmmmm, how ironic. Would you like me to post that in the article? And I know all about the bitter and hateful fool that is Glenn Stassen. Someone who publicaly fosters such hate speach for our country wouldn't be able to teach at UCLA, but at Fuller, he's honored. Makes you think.

If I really were to be specific on all the extremist activities I witnessed while on campus, I'd need several pages. But I can name a few more if you'd like. During one of my courses with Chap Clark, he regularly made extremely inappropriate anti-Bush and anti-war comments during his youth ministry classes - nice. I heard the same thing from my evangelism prof. Then there were the countless anti-Bush rallies held in Garth, not to mention that hateful anti-American posts on the campus discussion board (mainly by radical Quakers, which are indeed leading the anti-American agenda at Fuller). The hateful disdain they demonstrated for our nation was disgusting, let alone sinful. When I posted on it and called for being more fair and balanced (which the Quakers clearly weren't doing) a few times, my posts were ripped down, not by students, but by the faculty member who supervised the board, claiming that my articles caused "divisiveness." Yeah, the truth can really be divisive at times. What a joke!

So I'll be leaving my comments, since they are in a "criticisms" section that Wikipedia administrators approved. Thus, if you delete them again, I'll be forced to report you to an administrator for vandalism.

Soli Dei Gloria!

-manutglory