Talk:Abdullah Gül

Protests and all that

I'm no expert on Turkey, so I don't want to jump in and start editing the page. I do know, however, that this fellow seems to be a hotly divisive figure in Turkey. In particular, a lot of people seem to think that he's not a secularist (which is mentioned in the article). The only elaboration in the article on that topic seems to be his statement that he's a perfectly nice guy. Can we get a mention of why so many people seem to think he's not a secularist? Thanks. --George 15:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

The secularism in Turkey is one of the most discussed concepts. It is applied in ways that oppress and discrimate against some parts of the society. Although it is ideally a guarantee for the religious freedom, it does not work that way in Turkey. For instance, wearing headscarfs is banned in schools and public places because of this (mis)interpretation of secularism. Some paranoid individuals consider it as a threat to the republic and try to spread and dominate that fear on public. Because of this ideologic oppression, the public and state are in conflict. The reason is that bureaucratic elits who try to regulate the life in Turkey do not want to lose their power and prestige. They control and press the public, whose beliefs and values are constituting a threat to their selfish interests, by maintaining that imaginative fear in varied aspects of life. Abdullah Gul's possible precidency is something they are scared to death. Becuase the people will see that there is no danger to the republic as they were told when ABdullah Gul will function as a president. This will normalize the life in Turkey, which means that those elits will be seriously criticized and lose their so-called legitimacy. The July 22 elections are one of the signs of this process. Half of the public elected in favor of Abdullah Gul's party. The people/public are now much more aware of who is doing what under what intentions in Turkey. Remember those REPUBLIC PROTESTS before the elections. Now it has been revealed that they were engineered ideologically by the very same center and the same persons/institutions tried to manipulate the public that the republic is in danger. Yes something is in danger, but it is not the republic, it is rather the selfish interests and power of those elits who consider the public as a threat.

I just added this part to the republic protest page;

Gül was prominently a controversial candidate for several reasons. His background including the two proscribed islamist political parties, and a recently re-revealed interview of him in the Guardian newspaper in 1995 where he stated "We want to change the secular system" was seen as the major concerns of the protesters. Morever her wife, who previously filed a complaint against Turkey in the European Court of Human Rights, is wearing a head scarf; which many had seen as a threat to the secular Republic Regime of Turkey, and thus expressed this inconvinience in the second rally.

Hope that helps, don't really have time to work a lot on it. But somebody just nominated the republic protest for the first page so tried to clarify the situation a little

Kerem Özcan 16:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

This has to be the most inane article on wikipedia. His bio (which was perfectly fine just a week ago) is now replaced with a single line. The main body deals with a current election, as though its the culmination of his life. Would someone kindly stop whoever it is thats erasing his bio, and replace the one previously erased. Thx

Unsigned = 04:30 29 April 07

Comment

Gül's foreign minister office's official page is:

http://www.mfa.gov.tr/grupg/default.htm

Is there an accepted protocol on whether links of this type belong in articles on public officials? Ellsworth 17:44, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

Gul wasn't CEO of IDB (and IDB doesn't use CEO as titles anyway) - AA.

---

He isn't someone that respected by all of Turkish Nation like rest of his party anyway.

"He isn't someone that respected by all of Turkish Nation like rest of his party anyway." This is a very stupid statement which has not to be discussed here. If you dont like them fine, but other people in Turkey who finally got rid of conflicts and experience a clear development like him and his party

Everybody who took the ECON202 (introduction to macroeconomics) course can understand that the clear development which you are talking about is actually the collapse of the Turkish economy in the long term. Just like Benjamin Franklin said "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security". Deliogul 09:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Stub

May I ask why people keep scrapping the text from length of an article to a stub? Ben ^T/_C 11:19, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

copyvio

I don't think the bio part is copyvio, please see these google searches: [1], [2], [3], even this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Denizz (talk • contribs) 11:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

Statistics?

Martial status? Religion? Children? Etc? Where is all the usual info about key figures?Tourskin 05:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

From the article: "On August 21, 1980, Abdullah Gül married Hayrünnisa Özyurt (b. 1965) and the couple has three children, two sons named Mehmet Emre and Ahmet Münir and a daughter named Kübra" We even have the wedding date, which is probably unnecessary. I don't see why stating his religion is necessary (laicite) but he is most likely Muslim, considering his past (he is certainly nominally Muslim). Deniz^T_C 11:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Fettullah Gulen..

Abdullah Gul is simply servant of Fethullah Gülen. Everybody knows that in Turkey. It is not a secret (All the videos are available in yuotube 1,2,3). Wikipedia is a free ancyclopedia. And It should give every detail. Fettullah Gulen wants to change the regime in Turkey by settling islamic rules. So in a very near feature regime in Turkey will change. That is why the date 28 August 2007 is a very important in Turkey's History. Because The Army of Ataturk lost and Fettullah won.. It is strange that there is no Fettullah Gulen in article? —Preceding comment added by onur 19:47, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

As Atatürk said "Armies of the republic are always ready". This is not a football game but politics. Ability to plan three moves further and ability to stay calm can make you win both the game chess and the game of politics. As Chris Rea said "Fool if you think it's over, it's just begun" ;) Take care, Deliogul 23:12, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

The people have spoken. If the Turkish people really want to join the EU, they must appreciate that in the EU the will of the people expressed in their Dmocratic mandate trumps and notions of secularism, or Islamism. If Gul screws up, the people can boot him and his party out and stay in the EU. If the Army does it, the Turks will not be welcome in Europe. Europe remembers the brute force tactics of the Soviets, and if the Turkish Army replicates that there is no way they will be granted accession.195.7.55.146 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.7.55.146 (talk) 09:53, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

If Gul screws up, the people can boot him and his party out and stay in the EU. After being islamic country, who will boot him out? The army of Fethullah? —Preceding unsigned comment added by onur

Yep, Reds and military are always bad and the great notion of democracy which is promoted by US is always good. AKP's policies which make people happy in the short term will end up in a disaster in the long term. As I said before, every ordinary college student who took introduction to macroeconomics course can understand that. So stop blaming the army to defend AKP. AKP is about five years old. On the other hand, the army celebrated its 2216th anniversary of foundation. Do you know the popular song of Aretha Franklin? R-E-S-P-E-C-T :) Deliogul 10:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Why are you even mentioning the USA? Does Turkey want to be the 51st State too? In terms of Accession of Turkey to the European Union, The will of the people, all the people, trumps the will of the army. If, as you suppose, the people made a mistake, in a democracy they can correct that mistake. 195.7.55.146 14:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

The will of people is a weak answer to the problem in Turkey. There are different kinds of people in Turkey. A group of religious people, a group of conservative people, a group of nationalist people, a group of social democrat people, a group of Kurdish activists etc. Half of the conservative voters, all of the religion freak guys and a considerable number of Kurdish people decided AKP is the best choice, a thing doesn't necessarily mean that they want EU. Other voters insisted that AKP will ruin the country and voted for other parties, a think doesn't necessarily mean that they don't want EU. Many people chose AKP for the food and coal help and many others (AKP supporters from the middle class) chose AKP for the wealth that they gained in the short term. Whatever, time will tell the truth as you stated. Note: I would be so ignorant if I didn't see the close ties between US and AKP. Maybe Turkey is not the 51st state but the government are close to work like a colony headquarters :) Deliogul 14:51, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

As it says at the top of this page, "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Abdullah Gül article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. Thanks! AndrewRT(Talk) 18:07, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Alright, take it easy brother :) Deliogul 21:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

strange sentence

The article currently has this sentence, in the "presidential candidacy" section

But a few days later, on May 11 when inquired after the alterations to the Turkish constitution which now allowed the people to elect the president directly rather than a parliamentary vote, Gül announced that he was still intending to run on May 6.

How could he have announced on May 11 that he was intending to run on May 6? --Delirium 22:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Güllük Camii

Is Güllük Camii a mosque? It's mentioned in the Early life section but not explained. --Cam 01:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Camii means mosque in Turkish. I think you got it :) Deliogul 09:15, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Karısıyla kaç yaşında evlendiği neden ısrarla makaleye sokuluyor?

Türk işi bu. Çok umrumda değil ama adamı pedofil olarak damgalamak istiyor gibisiniz. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.99.201.4 (talk) 05:32, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

Actually, love has no boundaries but you have to understand that the age difference and the age of his wife during the time of their marriage is somehow strange. Deliogul 09:19, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Article is about Abdullah Gul , and his all life, his mentality, and his friends.. You can add anything that concerns him.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by onur

I find it strange that you are not disturbed by the fact that he married a child half his age, but rather by people merely stating that fact. And I don't think he is a pedophile either, he is probably just following his prophet's example. Kvorakir 14:20, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Kvorakir, your statement about Muhammed can make religiously sensitive people angry. While, many Turkish people find marrying a child weird and even sick, for a considerable amount of people, it is just a "tradition". I have to add that some traditions of every culture can be impossible to understand or justify in modern understanding. Whatever, we have to mention that Gül was married with a child and we don't have to take this discussion further. Deliogul 15:49, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I was angry, because some people are trying to make their leaders look good by hiding unpleasant facts about them. And some of these people (like the anonymous user above) accuse the writers of sullying their leaders. But you are right; I shouldn't have mentioned Mohammed's wife. WP is not the place for such a discussion. I am not going to further comment on that issue, unless someone removes that section again. Kvorakir 07:32, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Date Of Birth

The article gives as his date of birth 29 October 1950, but in the infobox the date is 10 October 1950. So, which one is it? Q43 08:47, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Why has this been in the news section on the front of Wiki for so long?

Hasn't this been out there long enough? BCapp 10:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)