Talk:Appalachian English

Personally I find the fact that most of the vocabulary words listed are associated with "backwards", agrarian culture somewhat demeaning towards, or perhaps conforming to stereotypes of the dialects speakers. I know for a fact that we use many other "special" words on a much more frequent basis than those listed. Anyone who can, please help. I would argue with the fact that coloquialisms must be cited. If the posted words do not conform to the linguistic definitions of the dialect, then take them down by all means, but scholarly works in good repute do not necesarily include every coloquialism that exists within a givin dialect. 24.167.1.71 02:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

No Original Research, Please

Please do not contribute original research (i.e. one's own thoughts or ideas) to Wikipedia (especially to linguistics articles). Doing so is against Wikipedia policy. (WP:NOR)

Aside from that fact, just "living in an area" for a long time does not make one an expert on dialect(s). There are too many variables to consider (including the influence of mass media, popular culture, and the 20th Century advent of easily-accessible rapid transit). Unless you are trained and educated in the subject of linguistics, your unqualified opinions may serve to only add confusion to an already complex subject. "I've never heard..." or "I've always heard..." does not cut it.

If you do have contributions to make, please make sure they are referenced. Arx Fortis 06:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

pronunciation

I think this article and others concerning language would be more usefull if in stead of the linguist's shorthand used to describe pronunciation, words were described phonetically.

Hopefully someone with a bit of expertise can tackle this page. Needs to look more like the Southern American English page, but I don't know where to start. --Woohookitty 21:12, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

See PBS.org for information about their series "Do you Speak American," which demystifies and celebrates the fascinating diversity of American English. The Following is an excellent example of Appalachian English taken from their website:

A-Hunting We Will Go …for a-prefix words. This exercise was taken from Walt Wolfram’s 1993 essay, “Teaching the Grammar of Vernacular English” in: Glowka, A. Wayne, & Donald M. Lance, eds., Language Variation in North American English: Research and Teaching.

Some dialects of English put an a- sound before words that end in -ing, so that you hear phrases like "a-hunting we will go.” In the sample sentences given below, only one sentence out of each pair can take an a-prefix. Which sentence do you think can have the a-prefix before the -ing-form? Choose - or make an educated guess. If you’re not sure, try reading each version of an a-prefix out loud to yourself. Do you recognize a pattern?

a. The man likes sailing. b. The man went sailing.

a. The woman was coming down the stairs. b. The movie was shocking.

a. He makes money by building houses. b. He makes money building houses.

a. Sam was following the trail. b. Sam was discovering the cave.

a. William thinks fishing is silly. b. William goes fishing every Sunday.

a. The movie was fascinating. b. The movie kept jumping up and down.

a. Sally got sick cooking chicken. b. Sally got sick from cooking chicken.

a. The man was hollering at the hunters. b. The man was recalling what happened that night.

The sentences which can carry the a-prefix are 1b, 2a, 3b, 4a, 5b, 6b, 7a, and 8a. Most students, including many ESL students, instinctively get this right, even if they have a hard time explaining why. In some cases, they will argue that the other form just doesn't sound right - and they will be exactly right. The important thing is that a pattern emerges from these sentences: not all -ing-forms can randomly be prefixed with a-, but there is a certain set of rules to it:

The a- prefix can occur only ...

... with verb complements, not with -ing participles that function as nouns (sentences 1 and 5) ... with verbal -ing forms, but not with -ing participles that function as adjectives (sentences 2 and 6) ... when the -ing forms is not followed by a preposition (sentences 3 and 7) ... with verbs that have a stressed initial syllable, not with verbs with an unstressed first syllable: in follow and holler, the first syllable is stressed; in discover and recall the first syllable is not stressed (sentences 4 and 8)

The conclusion to be drawn from this pattern or set of rules is that dialects, too, have their own grammar - dialects are not just “bad” or “wrong” ways of speaking; they are subject to grammatical rules just like any other variety of a language. In this, dialects differ from "broken language" or an imperfectly learned second language.

American Varieties Index

Suggested Reading/Additional Resources Stewart, William A. 1967. Language and communication in Southern Appalachia. Eric Document 012 026.

Wolfram, Walt. 1980. "A"-prefixing in Appalachian English. Locating language in time and space, ed. by William Labov, 107-42. New York: Academic Press.

Wolfram, Walt. 1982. Language knowledge and other dialects. American Speech 57.3-18.

Wolfram, Walt and Donna Christian. 1976. Appalachian speech. Arlington, VA: Center for Applied Linguistics.

Walt Wolfram is the William C. Friday Distinguished Professor at North Carolina State University, where he directs the North Carolina Language and Life Project. He has pioneered research on social and ethnic dialects since the 1960s, publishing 16 books and more than 250 articles on language varieties such as African American English, Latino English, Appalachian English, and Southern Vernacular English. Wolfram is deeply involved in the application of sociolinguistic information and the dissemination of knowledge about dialects to the public. In this connection, he has been involved in the production of TV documentaries, museum exhibits, and other community-based dialect awareness initiatives; he also served as primary linguistic consultant for the Children's Television Workshop, the producers of Sesame Street. He has served as President of the Linguistic Society of America, the American Dialect Society, and the Southeastern Conference on Linguistics.Frazzled 22:16, 26 September 2005 (UTC)Frazzled.

The Language of Appalachia Level By Gayle Trent [[1]]

A disagreement on nuance

In the article, one example given for the prevalence of double-negatives is the comparison of two phrases;

"I will not go to that funeral", becomes "I won't be goin' to no funeral."

While the second phrase does contain an apparent double negative, the nuance of the statement is that the speaker will not go to ANY funeral, not just the one at hand.

I'm not a linguist, just a native speaker.

"I won't be going to no funeral" indicates that the speaker will not be going to the formally-scheduled funeral proper [with any number of reasons, including the possibility of fracas] but does intend to socialize with others elsewhere as an informal funeral remembrance or privately alone. 11/26/2005 22:44, 26 November 2005 (UTC) beadtot

I'm smack dab in the middle of Appalachia and I ain't got no idear what you just said there. The sentence means "I'm not going to ANY funeral (at all)." I think if he wanted to specify a particular funeral, a speaker would naturally say, "I ain't goin' to the funeral." I'm a linguist, and a native speaker. 63.23.55.172 23:31, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I second (or third) that point. "I'm not Xing no Y" could be "I'm not buyin' you no beer!". If someone says this to you, don't expect to be sippin' suds anytime soon, ya hear? 'Cause you' gonna have to go get it yourself! In other words, Appalachian/Southern-American English (etc.) can be quite informal, but it is not without logic. Far from it:
A: Borrow me a couple o' bucks, will ya, Whitland.
B: Now, I ain't lendin' you no more money, 'cause you done crossed the line.
A: How d'ya figure?
B: Well, Russell, seein' how's you still owes me from last time and ain't paid none o' that yet, I reckon you just might double your debt and forget the whole mess all over again thinkin' it don't make no nevermind.
A: I won't forget this time, cross my heart!
B: You think I ain't got no brains, boy? Hell, there ain't nobody in this town you ain't in debt with an' I ain't obliged to stand no more of your fibbin'.
A: But I'll pay you back, plus interest. I promise. You know me, Whit. I ain't telling no lie.
B: Yes, I do know you, Russ, and I suspicion that you is."
Question: Did Whitland loan any money to Russell at the end of the preceding dispute?

• If you answered no, then I congratulate you for having successfully mastered elementary school education.
• If you answered yes, then you best get your ass in class real quick, sonny, 'cause you ain't got no brains!
  

I'm a linguist, an native speaker (of English), and consequently filled with pity for the shtunk who apparently doesn't know a colloquialism from a hole in the ground…—Strabismus 18:09, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

A (Significant?) Aditional Disagreement

In the article it is stated that "both dialects have contributed to the devlopment of African-American Vernacular English". This was in reference to both Appalachian and Southern English. In the majority of recent texts I've read, it is assumed to be the otherway 'round.

African-American Vernacular is actually a significant source of many of the pronuciations and words common in these dialects. I will update with sources as soon as possible. Matjac 04:35, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

People

How about a list of people with this accent? It would certainly help in identifying it. Good idea. A few come immediately to mind such as blugrass/country artist Ricky Skaggs and NASCAR driver Michael Waltrip. If anybody can add more please do so. WilliamThweatt 01:33, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Darrel Waltrip,Billy-ray-Cyrus,Loretta Lynn, Wynona Judd, Naomi Judd,Dolly Parton  here are some. User:Celticpete

March 25 2006

I like this article

I like this article, though it is stereotypical of many of us Kentuckyians, I have heard my grandmother say many of the words described in this article. I am beginning to use the word "reckoned" more myself. Congrats to whomever made this delightful article.

Эрон Кинней (TALK) 08:08, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Expanded Pronunciation Examples Would Be Nice

Great article.

It would be great if in addition to the IPA(?) pronunciation guides in the Pronunciation section that standard English examples could be included as well. For example "Creek" is pronounced [kɹɪk] like Standard English's "Rick."

Most readers - including this polyglot - cannot read or understand the IPA(?) phonetic alphabet. --AStanhope 00:43, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree!!!--A. B. 17:00, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I double agree!--Soltera 16:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't need sources

I don't need sources, I speak the dialect.

Эрон Кинней 19:05, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Much of the syntactical variation of Appalachian English is derived from the Scots-Irish dialect." How? much. I saw very little that was similar to Scots.

I need sources with proper comparisons (also with other varieties which may be possible sources) and not conjecture. -- unsigned comment

Agreed. Saying "I don't need sources" is like saying "I don't have to explain, I'm just right." It's no way to write an encyclopedia. -- Rob C (Alarob) 17:52, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

real-time use of "ain't"

Use of "ain't" softens speech and diction directed toward a specific person or audience, being a contraction of "would fain not" [a reference to the protection of temples and religion] and is also a slang term for "ancient" as a descriptor. 11/26/2005 22:57, 26 November 2005 (UTC) beadtot

Did you just make this up? Seriously, did you? 63.23.55.172 23:37, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, 63.23.55.172, I too am wondering how so many loonies find their way into Wikipidia. It appears Mr(s).??? deadbeadt [sic] has proven that they also find their way out of straight-jackets. Oh, P.S., the posting of messages containing remarks such as "this is a great article" on Talkpages and surreptitiously signing them under different names doesn't necessarily make it "great".—Strabismus 21:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Article Overhauled as of Groundhog Day 2006

I overhauled the article today and rewrote it completely, incorporating a good bit of the previous article and including sources this time. I will most likely continue to work on it. Please leave your suggestions here or on my talk page. Thank you. BrianGCrawfordMA 00:28, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you deleted all the work I did to clean up the phonology section (and other sections) to bring it up to a more scientific standard. The way it's rewritten (I believe this is all from the old version?) is really unprofessional from a linguistic point of view. If the section is going to be entitled "phonology", I think it should be written in a way that phonologists would describe the language. Please let me know what you think about the possibility of changing that section back to my previous edits.

Thanks! --SameerKhan 06:40, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I didn't write it for a linguistics journal. I wrote it so that people with no knowledge of the IPA could read and understand the English I grew up speaking before I exchanged my Appalachian drawl for Ivy League drawl. Other readers on this talk page have expressed their frustration with the IPA. As it stands now, nothing is wrong, but, since IPA is apparently Wikipedia policy, I'll revert back those transcriptions that were correct. Feel free to clean up what you think was "unprofessional," but please make sure you get it right this time. This isn't the Jeff Foxworthy Show. BrianGCrawfordMA 18:01, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Not a problem. If people found the way I rewrote things unclear, there is of course no need to use it. I only thought since someone earlier wrote that they wanted to see this article look more like the Southern American English page, that this is what they meant, but I guess not! I'm not a speaker of this dialect, and I'm not familiar with it either, so it's not like I am in a position to say much about it, hah. I'm fine with the article as it is. Just so you know, I don't think I *added* any information of my own; I just rewrote what others had written, so if there was something wrong, I hope it was not due to my edits. Not sure what you mean by the Jeff Foxworthy Show reference, but okay! --SameerKhan 05:42, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

"Skillet" Controversy

The word "skillet" has been deleted from the sample lexicon twice. I just put it back. I'm not really concerned about whether it is used in the Midwest, which is Kmweber's reason for removing it. It's the usual word for "frying pan" in Appalachia, which is why it is here. In addition to having my own knowledge as a native speaker of the dialect, I pulled this out of a linguistic textbook as one of the salient vocabulary differences of the dialect. Of course it's used in some places in the Midwest. Some Appalachians have moved westward over the past couple of hundred years. BrianGCrawfordMA 18:24, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

The lexicon section is for words or usages that are UNIQUE to Appalachia. The word "skillet" is used almost universally among American English speakers, whether interchangeably with or in place of "frying pan". Kurt Weber 23:16, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

When I rewrote this article in its entirety, I didn't make the determination that the sample lexicon should contain only words unique to Appalachia, and I'm not even sure if there are such words in existence, with all the moving around people have done in the last few decades. Don't tell me what I meant to write. If you think that the lexicon should contain only those words that are unique to Appalachia, then consult the relevant literature, change the article, and defend your edits here. I really can't be bothered by what you folks in southern Indiana call a frying pan. People in the Southern Midland dialect area say "skillet" instead of "frying pan," and it's documented in dialect surveys. If you're so keen on describing your own language, maybe you should start your own article. BrianGCrawfordMA 23:42, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

The whole point of providing samples of a language is to show how it differs. If a "sample lexicon" said people from Appalachia use the words "the", "bear", "food", "pencil", and "truck", it would be true, but it would also be pointless. Only usages that are UNIQUE to Appalachia should be included; there's no point in including anything else. Kurt Weber 02:49, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

All I was trying to do is to describe the dialect for people who don't speak it. If you'd like to produce a list of words that only Appalachian speakers use, I'm all for it, but I have serious doubts about whether such a list could be reliably made. Someone could torpedo any word on the list and say, "hey, I live in X and we say that, so it must not be unique." This is a problem of original research, which is why I have cited a linguistics textbook at the bottom of the page. It seems like you have a fundamental disagreement on the prevailing methodology in dialect studies, and I'm neither inclined nor qualified to sort it out with you, since I don't have a PhD in linguistics or English, and I haven't published anything on dialect myself. If the idea of "skillet" being in the word list remains a real problem for you, maybe you should contact someone at the Dictionary of American Regional English at the University of Wisconsin at Madison and ask them to explain their methodology. Brian G. Crawford 16:43, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

About the 'sample vocabulary.' Perhaps a RECENT peer-reviewed SOURCE of Appalachian vocabulary is in order, with words randomly selected and accompanied by appropriate citations of the source. There are a number of things to consider. Perhaps there have been significant changes within Appalachian culture (and subsequently the dialect) in the postmodern age. While perhaps 40 years ago the usage of the article’s selected words was more prevalent, most of the listed vocabulary is antiquated and seldom used colloquially in everyday interaction. Perhaps the selected words as a current vocabulary do not adequately reflect the cultural and linguistic vicissitudes that have occurred since the postmodern age, as it seems the article treats their usage as temporally immutable. Perhaps the range of words selected seems a little narrow; 4 words describing tobacco and its use, 3 words for food, and one for a shotgun. Seems a little stereotypical, as surely there are a number of old sui generis Appalachian words that exist aside from tobacco, food, and guns; surely the current selections wouldn't match the counts of a randomly selected pool of Appalachian words in a normal distribution. Moreover, perhaps the example sentence choices for the vocabulary and grammar needs to be changed. Examples like "That boy done slobbered all on my plug," "Lay down and hush" or "If Wal-Mart ain't got it, you don't need it" all feed into the stereotype of a rural cultural backwardness of someone 'slobberin' on someone else's tobacco, bizarre behavior ('Lay down and hush'?), or being a Wal-Mart dependent consumer base. Perhaps the article is good (and done in good faith), except for the vocabulary selection and vocabulary and grammar examples, as they need revision. As I mentioned before, while I’m sure the usage of the listed vocabulary is extant, perhaps its usage is limited mostly to the older generations of Appalachia and the vocabulary needs to be supplanted with a more up-to-date, collectively exhaustive random selection of Appalachian words from a peer-reviewed source, as well as the vocabulary and grammar examples improved to reflect the reality of a more culturally diverse region than they depict. Sunny_Lewis 11:40 pm, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any backwards-ness about an 'orn skillet.' That's what my momma calls it and what my grandma calls it. My mother also tells children to "lay down and hush," and although noone in my family smokes tobacco, she sometimes comments if she sees someone "slobberin." I can see your point that stereotypes are bad, but where I come from, we call a skillet a skillet.--MaskedScissorDoll 23:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

"Via"?

The article presently contains this sentence:

• "Some speakers claim that those who came to Appalachia from Northern Ireland via Scotland, the Scotch-Irish or Ulster Scots, had the greatest role in shaping modern Appalachian English..."

I'm not about to make any claim about the Scots-Irish influence, just the fact that the Scots-Irish were people of Scottish origin waylaid in Ireland for a few centuries enroute to the Americas. The current phrasing makes it sound as though it's the other way 'round. Sigh. This is why I hate the word via. No one knows what it means. Anyway, I'll be changing this. JordeeBec 22:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It was a simple error I made. I know exactly who the Scots Irish are, and I sure as hell know what via means, since I've taken lots of Latin. In the ablative singular, it means "by way of." Is that good enough for you or do you want to continue to be an obnoxious snob?

you'ns, we'ns and hit

I was surprised to see no mention of "you'ns", use in many areas instead of "you all" or "y'all". Ditto "We'ns"

Pronouncing "it" as "hit" is also common as in "Hit's time to go."

Seconding this - these are all things my entire family says, and I did not realize that it was unique to our dialect until I left home. I am not a linguist, however, and am unsure exactly how far these words are used abroad (I'm originally from the Knoxville/Chattanooga area, where this is common). 68.10.172.197 06:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Southern vs. Appalachian English at the fringes -- class distinctions?

Has anyone ever formally studied how Southern and Appalachian English mix in the zones where they meet? I'm thinking of places such as Knoxville, Asheville or Roanoke. My impression is that the more Southern an inhabitant's speech, the more affluent they're likely to be. I could speculate on the reasons, but I'd be interested to learn what more formal studies have found. (Or if any have confirmed or disconfirmed my impression). --A. B. 17:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

A.B., see "Linguistic Diversity in the South" (Bender, et al) for some research on the issues you mention. In a nutshell, there does appear to be a general tendency that the Southern dialectic person has more formal education than someone with an Appalachian dialect. However, this is a by-product of, and not a cause of this disparity. The remoteness, and hence the difficulty in traveling into and out of the Appalachian mountains before the late 1800's, resulted in a certain amount of isolation that contributed to the disparity in educational resources from those in the flat-lands.

Also, while a rather dated book, "Our Southern Highlanders" (Horace Kephart) gives a very early 20th Century perspective on the Appalachian way of life and speech. ++ Arx Fortis 07:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks -- I look forward to reading these! --A. B. ^(talk) 13:07, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Shall only used in Law

Whaaa? I know 'being from here, speaking said dialect" doesn't make me an expert in most people's eyes, HOWEVER, the term 'Shall' is not and has never been used only in Law. And trust me, I live in an area and often visit the most rural and backwoods parts of Southern West Virginia. We do use 'Shall' in speech. Always have.

Kyarn

I understand that life-long residents who have been raised speaking the dialect and hearing it spoken are "does not cut it" when it comes to explaining to others how we speak, regardless of the profiency in Standard English they have achieved. However, kyarn not a separate collequialism in the sense that poke is when referring to a small bag or sack, but a dialectal pronunciation of carrion and therefore refers to all rotting flesh and not roadkill specifically.

SonPraises 12:19, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

What people mean when they say that speakers are not experts in the dialect is that there can be a lot of what you might call "ideolectical interference" -- that is, no two speakers of any language or dialect speak literally the exact 100% same way. There are a lot of minor variations in speech in an area from town to town and even from speaker to speaker, so part of dialect research is gathering data from a broad range of subjects and areas rather than just listening to one person tell you how they talk. (Also, sometimes speakers of a dialect are not able to accurately explain their word usage -- in the same way that native speakers of a language often cannot give good grammar explanations even if they use the grammar 100% correctly in their daily speech.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.180.44.242 (talk) 15:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC).

When I hit college, I was deemed enough of an expert in Appalachian English (wich they referred to as Appalachian Regional Dialect) to be forced to sit through a non-credit class to weed out regionalisms. Be that as it may, there are a lot of claims made in this article, and the only one which is directly cited is my addition of directly.

I also object to the claim (which has every marking of original research!) that native speakers are stumped to explain their language--especially to native speakers. It takes only a teenager of average intelligence to explain what the word hella means (as in he's hella cool). He doesn't need a Ph.D. in linguistics who has conducted field research involving multi-city vocabulary surveys to be able to say "Hella means "very". He just needs a working knowledge of the slang he is using and of Standard English.

But this is a digression. The claim, which has no support that kyarn is a regional lexical feature rather than a reigional pronunciation of carrion, is still in the article. Since no claims in the article are referenced, and it would be useless to add the "citation needed" notation after every single sentence, implies that some original research is tollerated, but just not from native speakers of Appalachian English. SonPraises 02:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Userbox proposal

I've come up with Babel userboxes that might work for Appalachian English. (If you're a Wikipedian but don’t know what userboxes are, or Babel, please read WP:UBX and WP:BABEL.)

Comments are invited, but will be less welcome from folks who don't recognize that "Southern" and "Appalachian" are not the same dialect. Gin ye caint tell nary diffrence, I'd as lief ye stayed furnint yer own halss an dint bother me none consarnin thisere.

The boxes are here. -- Rob C (Alarob) 00:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Non-ISO language userboxes are here. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 00:17, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Scotch-Irish

Currently the article has two seemingly contradictory paragraphs:

English speakers who settled the area came mostly from West Anglia, the Scottish Lowlands, Wales, Ireland, and Scotland via Northern Ireland in the middle 18th and early 19th centuries, and their speech forms the basis of the dialect. Along with German immigrants, these groups populated an area which is still largely homogeneous culturally.

Some speakers claim that those who came to Appalachia from Scotland by way of Northern Ireland, the Scotch-Irish or Ulster Scots, had the greatest role in shaping modern Appalachian English, but there is no evidence of this aside from overly sympathetic and romanticized comparisons with modern English spoken by Protestants in Ulster. Such comparisons are often made by self-educated amateur local historians who self-identify as Irish or Scotch-Irish.

Aren't the English speaking people who immigrated to Northern Ireland and then to America Scotch-Irish? That is basically what the Scots-Irish American page says, as well as various books I have. So the first paragraph here seems to be describing the Scotch-Irish (aka Scots-Irish), while the second paragraph denies any connection in a rather critical tone. One book I have, "A History of Appalachia" (Drake, 2001), describes the dialect of the 18th century Scotch-Irish immigrants as what became the norm in Appalachia. Among the specifics he describes are "the love of r, as in fire (far), hair (har), and bear (bar); triphongs and quadrithongs, as "abaout" (for about ) and "haious" (for house); the use of h for specific emphasis, as "hit" (it), "hain't" (ain't), and hyander (yonder); the double and triple negatives for emphasis.." and more.

I'm tempted to be bold and simply delete the second paragraph and add some of this info with references. But I thought I'd write here first, since it looks like others have discussed this a bit in the past. Thoughts? Pfly 07:59, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

You Fanatic Northeastern Liberals (Wikipedia) have a political agenda rewritting history the way you see fit where im from Southern Ohio Wilmington we Conservative bible-belt Hillbillies disagree with this.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Celticpete (talk • contribs) 01:37, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I have no political agenda and was merely mentioning something I read. But I get the message and will leave this page alone. Pfly 06:48, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Reckon

"Reckon: think, guess, suppose. I reckon you don't like soup beans. This is an actual English word that is used only in Appalachia, Britain and Australia."

I live in Indiana, and can attest that the word "reckon" is not used only in Appalachia, Britain and Australia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.254.81.196 (talk) 04:03, 15 April 2007 (UTC).

It is often used in Canada as well, so I've added that in. Not as often as "think", but it's not exactly rare either. Just search for any Canadian newspaper + "reckon" and you'll get many results. In my experience, it is used when the desire is to make the sentence sound a little more sophisticated. Odd how that works, no? Here it is associated more with the King's English rather than with hillbillies. Esn 08:20, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Ozark English + Appalachian English + X = Southern Midland English

I'm baffled as to why the area described does not include the Ozarks where a nearly identical dialect is spoken. In fact, I haven't found any description of Appalacian English, other than geographic, in the article that does not apply to Ozark English. I'm both a linguist (in the sense of speaking multiple languages) and a native speaker of Ozark English but I haven't done any "original" research in this area, I'm just baffled at the peculiar exclusion.

I think the article title should be changed to Southern Midland English and the correct geographic area be covered. There are differences between Appalachian and Ozark varieties but they don't seem to be covered by this article in its current form, anyway.

The Ozark variety may be in greater danger of disappearing due to tourism and dilution but let's not completely forget it. Halfelven 05:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

That would be appropriate only if the term is already in use among scholars. Coining a new term, or redefining linguistic categories, is well beyond the scope of Wikipedia and would constitute original research.

So is there a consensus among linguists about the existence of Southern Midland English? Is there danger of confusing it with a dialect of the English Midlands? -- Rob C (Alarob) 00:23, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I am not a linguist, but I definitely remember seeing "Midland" as a category or classification of American English dialects on maps from various dictionaries (probably all variations of Webster's, whether Merriam-Webster, Simon & Schuster, or otherwise), and I do believe at least some of the maps broke it down into "Northern" and "Southern Midland". The area basically begins in the Mid-Atlantic region on the East coast, and includes Delaware, Maryland, District of Columbia, and much of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, and eastern Kansas (areas further west had not been fully studied yet), as well as parts of Virginia, New York, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Tennessee, Iowa, Nebraska, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Texas. I believe it definitely has, or had, some currency among lexographers (dictionary writers), if not other linguists. I am not sure if in fact it has any ties or relationship to the Midland dialect in England; so I cannot rule this possibility out. The dialect seems to be approximately intermediate between "northern" and "southern" US speech, is largely rhotic, and is basically (though not entirely) identified with most of the Midwestern and western United States, although points further west than eastern Kansas have not been thoroughly analyzed. User:Shanoman12.40.34.150 13:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Appalachian: Pronunciation?

I'm a bit put off by the fact that this article claims that AP-uh-LAY-shun is the correct and common pronunciation of the word "Appalachian" outside of the area. I have consulted several sources, including the author of "Is There a Cow in Moscow?" (Charles Harrington Elster), who says that the pronunciation AP-uh-LAY-shun is not accepted by any modern dictionaries as being preferred. I can attest to the fact that AP-uh-LATCH-in is used here. It's even listed in many dictionaries (where as AP-uh-LAY-shun is only listed in two, according to Elster), and was once preferred by most (says his book, "Is There a Cow in Moscow?") Any other users out there that agree that this needs to be changed? - Isaac Smith 03:57, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Examples of Vocabulary

Some of these words are not really exclusively Appalachian.

Poke is used up and down the east to mean bag.

Coke is the name for all soda in Texas and lots of the sout.

People in Chicago and Detroit say "Pop" instead of Soda or Coke.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but I've heard "fixin'" all over Missouri.