Talk:Brethren Court

Capt. Teague

On the Disney official website (will post link in short moment), it says Capt. Jack was born Jack Teague, later changing is name to Sparrow. Here we have his father listed as Capt. Teague Sparrow, which is incorrect seeing as Teague is the family surname, not Sparrow. Anyone else's thoughts? Watemon 03:24, 30 May 2007 (UTC)'

Pieces of Eight

I didn't catch what each individual piece of eight was from each Pirate Lord. I only know Swann's necklace, Barbossa's false eye, and Sparrow's metal object. I also saw a playing card, but I don't know who it came from. Someone with a more definite list please update.Locke 18:10, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

The playing card came from the French Lord, Chevalle, and I know Mistress Ching had a pair of eyeglasses (classic reading style). Jocard's appeared to be a horn or large tooth of some sort, and I think Sumbhajee was the second-to-last person, putting in a small drinking chalice. Not sure about the others. Cybertooth85 20:16, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Any idea as to the actual object that Jack put in? I'm not quite sure what to name it.Locke 20:57, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Seemed like a simple silver coin, much like the ones that were being collected by Beckett in the film, albeit somewhat smaller. "Small coin charm" would be fine. Cybertooth85 20:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Apologies. Amand seemed to be the second-to-last to put his Piece of Eight (small chalice) in the bowl.Cybertooth85 21:00, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Jack's coin is not a Spanish Piece of Eight like the ones collected by Beckett. It is a small scalloped coin, actually similar to ones in use during the 20th century in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Turkey (often used in tribal belly dance costuming these days).

I thought that Sparrow was the only one to actually keep his original piece of eight. Maybe the movie people made a mistake and gave Depp ther wrong type of coint to use. Emperor001 16:15, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Nope, all of them were burned. Therequiembellishere 17:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

By the way Emporer dude, your wording is confusing...not sure what your talking about. If your talking about the ending Tortuga scene with Gibbs and the two women, your answer is that Jack got a small Kraken's tooth to replace it. Secondly, Sparrow's coin really isnt an actual Spanish dollar (also known as piece fo eight), because it is smaller, is octogonal or sinilar, and I think it has the Emblem of India pillar on it, or a horse. I saw two halloween costumes, they each give diffrent details. Maybe horse is on one side and the pillar on the other, I dont know. Forgive my rantings, the important thing is that it is NOT a spanish dollar. --Count Mall 00:31, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Davy Jones

In His early life Davy jones was the Pirate Lord of the scotish Locks.172.202.109.218 22:02, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

What is your source for that?--89.172.239.10 07:44, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Elliot and rossio, they came up with it as part of davy jones past life.172.202.184.199 11:24, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Its true it was one their website awhile back, and in an interview with the costume designer when she was coming up with the costume for the human jones in the flashback scene.172.212.8.52 12:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

We're gonna need a lot more tangible source. Give us a link or something. In the movie DJ and the 1st BC are always mentioned as separate. Thanos6 19:36, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Davy Jones was at the first brethern Court and showed the pirate lords how to imprison calypso in human form. in an online production diary the costume desighner said (while desighning the costume for the human jones in the flash back scene)that as a former Pirate Lord jones would have been a very snappy dresser. in a web interview with ted and terry they stated that when coming up with davy jones beginings they conceived of the idea that jones was one of the original pirate lords and that he ruled over the waters of his homeland of scotland.172.202.125.141 22:56, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Link to the diary?Locke 02:35, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I want to see a link.

And I, too.--89.172.201.147 14:51, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Because it is not confirmed that Davy Jones was pirate lord, I remove him. --89.172.206.86 07:36, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it was. --24.56.216.190 18:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

No, it wasn't, do not move things without making a clear consensus on the talk page. Therequiembellishere 19:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Template?

I'm not sure where the template went, so I'll just put it back.Locke 18:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest a sort of template for the info on the Pirate lords as a way of making the info more coherent.You could do for each, Name: Territory: Bounty: Piece of Eight: etc. It may make it look neater and easier to follow. Oatzy 14:42, 27 May 2007 (GMT)

I agree, Oatzy. It would help with reading through the entries and getting to desired info. Cybertooth85 17:50, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Sources for certain character traits

While the website does provide very nice background info on the Pirate Lords (criminal acts, bounties), I don't know if any of their relationships can be inferred from the online mini-game where they give up (literal) pieces of eight to allow the user to move forward. It just seems like something invented for the website. Cybertooth85 22:35, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Although it's only a minigame, it's still on the official site.Locke 00:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Davy or David

Now we know for certain that jones was a pirate lord should he be under david or davy, seeing as he was born as david.172.209.147.47 15:56, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I've always thought David was a good choice, seeing as it was pretty much another life, and for that life another name, but Davy is probably canonical.Locke 17:55, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Still waiting for a source on DJ being a lord. Thanos6 19:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Its bin confirmed by ted and terry on their website.172.142.203.75 22:06, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Tweezers?

It appears that the information on the page is flawed, as I just watched the movie, and Gentleman Jocard put in something not toothlike, but tweezer like. Any takers on what it was? Locke 05:40, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it's an animal tooth of some sort.

I thought it was a tuning fork. Therequiembellishere 16:22, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

There appears to be an animal tooth as well, aside from the tuning fork. Nice description, by the way. Prongs might work too, though. Locke 19:08, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Prices

Where did the information regarding the prices on each of the pirate lord's heads come from?

The offical At World's End website.

Fan Group?

Is it really appropriate to have the section about an exclusive membership fan group on the Wikipedia page? I mean, it's nice that they've got a club and all, but is that information really worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia? Roundelais

Deleted the 'Real World' section, it is just a collage fan group not worthy of mention and certainly not extrodinary.

Let's redirect it

This page is vital to the POTC section here and it can't be deleted. All of these characters are important to the plot, and since none of them actually paid any real big roles, I suggest that we re-direct the page to the "List of Minor Characters" page. --KnowledgeLord 01:37, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure we should do that. This isn't just a page for the characters, it's a page that explains the titles and the positions and the history of the Court, it wouldn't fit on the "List of Minor Characters" page. Therequiembellishere 02:45, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Then what? It'll be deleted!--KnowledgeLord 15:32, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

If it gets deleted, I have all of the information on my computer (including code), so I can put is on the Minor Characters page if and when that occurs, otherwise, I suggest we should just fight as hard as we can to make sure that it doesn't get redirected or deleted. Therequiembellishere 20:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

It should stay as-is as far as I'm concerned. They're characters essential to the POTC plotline.Zisimos 23:27, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

So how can we make it so that it doesn't get deleted?--KnowledgeLord 08:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, I've sourced all I know and I know for a fact that there are absolutely zero spelling mistakes (as I said, it's on my computer, and Word has found them all, so I've fixed them too). We're absolutely sure that the pictures are fair-use, right? The wording is good prose and all original research and speculation has been removed. Perhaps we could sources the producers and the junior novelisation? Other than that, the articles seems perfect to me (if only Anetode could realise that). Therequiembellishere 23:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Some thoughts

I have some issues with this article. First off, after seeing the movie, there's nothing to suggest much of that "so-and-so #1 has a deep respect for so-and-so #2 because so-and-so #1 only put their Piece of Eight in the hat after so-and-so #2". Although there is a character relationship like that that was explained in a visual guide or something, I think people are reading too much into the order in which they put in their pieces. Second, the thing about Captain Teague being Pirate Lord of Madagascar and Davy Jones as Pirate Lord of the Scottish Lochs absolutely reeks of fanon to me. Until anyone has a solid source for those two assertions, they should be removed. Teague and Jones do belong in the article though, because of the former's involvement at the Court and the latter's assistance in binding Calypso at the first Court. Finally, as for the issue of the images, I suggest that someone find a picture of them all sitting around the table. That way we have one fair use picture and not nine. --Hemlock Martinis 04:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

We're in the process of digging out the links which speak of Davy Jones as the Pirate Lord of the Scottish Lochs. Also, the parts about whoever putting in their piece of eight after so and so is from a minigame released on the official website to promote the movie. I suggest moving Jones into the section of "Other Affiliations" to clean it up, as the picture down there clutters it up enough.Locke 04:12, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, we'll put it back in when you find the link. As for your suggestion about moving Jones down to Other Affiliations, it's done. --Hemlock Martinis 04:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

About Capt. Teague, I've been going along with the whole, "He was the former Pirate Lord Of Madagascar, though he resigned his position to become Keeper Of The Pirate Codex," but the entire time, I've been wondering where this came from. Initially, I deleted it every time I saw it, but enough people keep switching it back, so could someone please find a source or delete to put my mind at ease? Therequiembellishere 04:32, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I've seen it on the Pirates Wiki, although I only saw it on there after I saw it on this wiki, so I think using that as a source would be initially backsourcing ourselves.Locke 05:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Capt. Teague was definately the pirate lord of madagascar he resined to become keeper of the code, the decsion was made when keith richards wanted more interaction with johnny depp. Ted and Terry annouced this on keep to the code.com when the richards first announced he would be playing jacks dad it is definately cannon. Im not sure about jones but it does make sense.172.201.81.225 12:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, very much! Therequiembellishere 12:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you link us the exact quote so we can use it in page, please? Thanks! --Hemlock Martinis 23:17, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

As were on the subject of jones regardless of wether he ends up in the former pirate lords section or the other affilations section, could we get a picture of him as a human when calypso touches his heart, as that was what he looked like when he was at the first brethren court.172.201.81.225 13:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Historical Inspirations

While I'm pleased to see that some of the material from the OW mini-game has been removed, what about the historical bases for some of these characters? Ching Shih in particular seems something like clear. What kind of source material do you think we'd need to include a reference to the historical Madame Ching? Darkfrog24 18:15, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, I mentioned Sumbhajee's, Ching's and Feng's inspirations, but they were removed as they are kinda speculative and unsourced. Therequiembellishere 19:53, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that they might be original research, but I'm not entirely sure. ^ЖLockeЖ 02:00, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

This interview [1] mentions that Ted and Terry took actual pirates to create them, however, it does not mention which inspirations were which pirate. Therequiembellishere 19:58, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Finding a good picture

Can someone find a screencap of all the Pirate Lords sitting around the table, or at least as many of them in one shot as possible? That would help alleviate the fair-use concerns. --Hemlock Martinis 07:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Wait till the DVD comes out. I know a shot, but it isnt in a preview. --24.56.216.190 15:38, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

This article should stay

While six of the Pirate Lords are relatively minor, the Brethren Court in itself is a crucial plot point in At World's End. And the official website does have actual tidbits of information as to their respective bounties and criminal offenses, I find it disconcerting as to why most of the Pirate Lord entries need citations when there are links that prove the statements. The Pirate Lords having a supposed deep respect to a certain Lord is just a part of the online mini-game, so it would not be considered part of the film canon and therefore should not be added as additional information to the Pirate Lord entries, because if anyone had seen the film, there is no actual point of reference to determine that Chevalle agrees with Sumbhajee, Jocard with Ching, etc. And while Jack, Barbossa, and Elizabeth are major characters, I think it would be fair to post a photo beside their profiles, though a group photo would suffice.

Why didn't you put this in the AfD page?^ЖLockeЖ 18:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Would they have listened? I myself, have posted things on the talk pages of other things many times before and have had no results. Besides, if we did, it'd be too late for the page as it would be deleted.--KnowledgeLord 21:03, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Who wrote this article?

Everything was messed up! Davtra 06:11, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Everything is perfect, I don't know what you're talking about. Therequiembellishere 06:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, everything is perfect now.Davtra 07:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

You . . . didn't change much. Therequiembellishere 12:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I know I didn't change much as it was getting late for me. Thank you for the fixes, Therequiembellishere! You've done really well cleaning up the mess. The article before was just terrible. - Davtra 12:30, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Ugh, I know, every time people edit, there are usually a myriad of spelling mistakes I have to change. Therequiembellishere 12:42, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I was madly adding those fact tags and deleting rubbish/junk. That was actually the worst article I've seen on Wikipedia. It was a nightmare, but it's all over now :) - Davtra 12:50, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Generally, unclean articles are the community's fault, not the author. Danke. ^ЖLockeЖ 01:45, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Yay! The article's a keeper! AND it's clean and good to read, too!

Birthplaces

On the official site, Beckett seems to have positioned their wanter poster on their approximate birthplace, should we include this? Therequiembellishere 06:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

If it's a fact, then maybe we should, but it needs to fit into one of the sections...maybe the History? - Davtra 07:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

It's just that it doesn't apply to all of the Pirate Lords, just the specific ones. For example: Jocard's wanted poster is in the center of Africa and Villanuevas appears to be in New Spain or some other South American colony. Chevalle is in North France and Sumbhajee looks like he's in East India. Feng's poster is northwest of the centre of China and Ching's is much farther north and much further east (around where modern-day China borders North Korea). Finally: Sparrow's is in India and Barbossa's in Turkey or something and Ammand is in European Russia. These are all approximations, perhaps you could look at the official site and clarify some things (It's the room with Beckett). Therequiembellishere 12:08, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Flags

Pirate lords use historical pirate flags. Villanueva use Blackbeard's flag and I saw flags of Christopher Moody, Bartholomew Roberts, Edward Low... I think it should be mentioned. --89.172.195.247 09:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Jack Sparrow's flag is not identical to Henry Avery's flag. Jack Sparrow's flag has a red sparrow in top right corner. You can see Sparrow's flag here. Here, Jocards flag is not Moddy's. Can somebody change this? I'll do it. Moddy's look to be Chings, and Jocard's loks more like Bartholomew Robert's second one.--Count Mall 19:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Ching's was something more detailed, but yes, Jocard's was not Moody's, it has the skull with crossbones and the chalice with wings reversed. If someone can take the image and change, we'd be fine. I myself cannot do it, as I am completely inept when it come to images or templates. Therequiembellishere 20:03, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but...there was Bart's first flag too. Could it be Teagues? 24.56.216.190 22:08, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, Roberts' first flag was definetely shown, however, I doubt it was Teague's, as it seems like they only showed the Pirate Lords' flags. I believe it was Sembhajee's flag and I'll add it for now to make the article complete, but if anyone finds a reason to contest one of the Pirates Lords' "ownership" of that flag or is able to change it to show how they portray it in the film, please do so. Therequiembellishere 22:13, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought his had a blue bakground but I'm not entirely sure. It have been his sails--Count Mall 22:22, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I think those were his sails--and I must have accidentally pressed ENTER while giving a reason for deleting your image, I was going to say, "It doesn't really show his flag". Therequiembellishere 22:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. I thought it looked funny...but I got the message--24.56.216.190 03:28, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Sumbhajee's flag has a blue background. His flag is not first Bartholomew Roberts's flag.--89.172.196.221 09:27, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Does somebody see Sao Feng's/Elizabeth's flag. I think that Tai Huang raise some flag on the Empress before the battle. --89.172.196.221 09:37, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Guys, you can see all flags of pirate lords here. --89.172.196.221 10:12, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Huh! Thats very helpful. It would be nice if that person sourced those, though. Aw well. But its just strange that those other flags appeared in the trailor, maybe there were other pirates there? --Count Mall 14:57, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe that other flags are used by their original owners; Edward Low, Christopher Moody... --89.172.195.128 16:03, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll bet that one of them is Teague's--Count Mall 16:48, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I know at least the Ching and Sumbhajee's seem to be correct, as I distinctly remember their flags being red and blue, respectively. When the movie comes out on DVD, somebody take the images we have and edit them to the one's shown in the movie. In addition to this, I am 100% certain that I was Christopher Moody's flag in the movie with the chalice with wings and the skull with crossed bones reversed. It may have been Teague's. I'd also like to point out that the source gives Ammand's filled with crescents, which also looks right, as he is portrayed as an Islamic pirate against Christians. Therequiembellishere 17:55, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Article Title

Therequiembellishere suggested on my talk page that I bring up an idea for amending this article's title here.

Following is an excerpt from my response to Thereruiembellishere's question (about my desire to merge this article) a couple of days ago: Sometimes it seems like Wikipedia covers fictional characters, events, locations, ideas, etc. more than it covers history and the world in which we actually live. Because of the historical existence of a loose organization of pirates in the Caribbean called the Brethren, I hate to see the real world topic confused with and obscured by a scene from a Disney film.

Perhaps if we changed the title of this entry to Brethren of the Coast (Pirates of the Caribbean) we could help to prevent the real world topic from being obscured? Any thoughts/ideas? Thanks for suggesting that I bring this up here Therequiem! Bradybd 22:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

But in the movie, it's not called Brethren of the Coast. It's the Brethren Court.

I agree, Brethren Court (Pirates of the Caribbean) is probably a better decision. Therequiembellishere 03:16, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

yeah, really. Who even cares about the real world thing. Its just another group of frat boys. --24.56.216.190 19:17, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Why add a (potc) to it? It's not like there's another brethren court. Brethren of the coast doesn't still redir here does it?

No, it does not.Therequiembellishere 21:06, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought that perhaps it could help to prevent confusion and the obscuring of real world parrallels - just an idea, but certainly not necessary. Would love to hear anyone else's opinion on this! Bradybd 17:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

former lords and villinueve

First off, I put a note that stated the 'other attendees' may possibly be former lords, but it arguable. Will this be good enough for both sides untill its cleared up by the crew (of the movie)? I feel this is the closest thing to both sides being happy as it can get. Second off, do we had verification that Villinueve's name is Eduardo?--24.56.216.190 19:24, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I am really sick and tired of people contesting the factuality of Eduardo before reading the section on him. Therequiembellishere 19:36, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'm sorry. (PS, I just now logged in (24.56.216.190 is me)). I did put it in a hidden note, since its current place made the section look crappy.--Count Mall 19:40, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Nine lords, ten areas?

When a Pirate Lord passes his or her Piece of Eight to another ship captain, that captain is then officially known as the next Pirate Lord of their predecessor's area. But we have nine current lords and ten areas: Black sea (Ammand's area), Adriatic sea (Villanueva's area), South China sea (Sao Feng's/Elizabeth's area), Pacific ocean (Ching's area), Atlantic ocean (Jocard's area), Indian ocean (Sumbhajee's area), Caribbean sea (Sparrow's area), Mediterranean sea (Chevalle's area), Caspian sea (Barbossa's area) and Madagascar (Taeque's former area). If Teaque passes his title and area to another captain, then one of the nine current lords must be lord of the Madagascar. It would be logical. --89.172.205.249 11:26, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

He obviously didn't pass it on, it may be that there were ten Pirate Lords, but this article is specifically about the Fourth Brethren Court. As such, Teague is not the Pirate Lord of Madagascar and the Piratical Lordship will be considered defunct. Therequiembellishere 00:13, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Calypso is captured with nine pieces of eight, therefore, there was a nine pirate lords who pass their pieces of eight to another nine captains. --89.172.200.151 10:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Captains inherit the pieces and areas of the former lords, but the areas can be expanded or shrunk, much like country borders of the time.--24.56.216.190 03:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

We dont know if they inherit areas. Pirate Code by Gibbs suggests that Teague is still lord of Madagascar, but just by the tence it used. It could be possible that the Keeper keeps lordship of an area but must hand down there piece. --Count Mall 00:22, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Titles

I think we should strip the titles from the section headings (i.e. Sri Sumbhajee to become Sumbhajee) as they aren't really needed and interfere with the page's alphabetical order. Therequiembellishere 00:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Please respond or I'll just do it. Therequiembellishere 03:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Tense

Should this be in present or past tense? I think most articles in fiction should be in past tense and many other wikis uses this form (and considering this was in the 1700s, it technically would be past tense). Therequiembellishere 03:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree. Unfortunately, there's large gangs of other Wiki editors and some admins who are apparently engaged in a quest to suck as much fun out of this project as possible; one of their favorite methods is to demand that "fiction" articles be written in present tense. Thanos6 11:50, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, is it an official rule, or can I do it? Therequiembellishere 23:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

It didn't use to be an official rule, but the Fun Destroyers pushed it through recently. Thanos6 10:31, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler warning?

The 'History' section gives away a pretty big plot point (not that Calypso had much to do with the movie...major MacGuffin Device...), shouldn't it have a spoiler warning? I don't know how to do it or I'd put it on there... --StarChaser Tyger 01:04, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

No, under Wikipedia's rules, it's unnecessary. Therequiembellishere 02:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Feng's flag

In The Pirate's Code by Joshemee, it gives Feng's flag as Low's flag on the big world map. Other sources have said that his flag was the pink Tew's flag. His crew did fly the Tew flag but while under Elizabeth Swann. Which one is the right one?--24.56.216.190 20:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Now that's where the problem arises. Anyone else have a take on this? Therequiembellishere 20:50, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the pink flag is Elizabeth's and the skeleton one Feng's.--Count Mall 02:11, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

But I don't get why why Elizabeth's flag would have Chinese characters on it. Therequiembellishere 03:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, she is the pirate lord of the South China Sea. Her crew is also Chinese. --24.56.216.190 21:51, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

But she isn't. Therequiembellishere 23:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but why would Feng have a pink flag? Not very scary for a male pirate to have a pink flag.--Count Mall 19:43, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

You see, now we're both going entirely on speculation here, we need a solid source. Therequiembellishere 03:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Pirate's Code gave Feng's flag as Low's--24.56.216.190 18:00, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Then what's the source for the Tew-based flag at all? Therequiembellishere 23:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The movie. The crew flew it under Captain Swann. --24.56.216.190 22:55, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Then why is there a debate at all?! I'm changing the flags according to these sources.Therequiembellishere 23:00, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, mind you, I'm making the Low flag Swann's and the Tew flag Feng's simply because it makes more sense. Therequiembellishere 23:58, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I guess I'll support you there, but I think the source for the pink flag is ambiguous, a screenshot of the source is [2]. But the Pirate's Code by Gibbs is very clearly labeling the Low flag as Feng's. Also, as I have already said, the Empress crew flew the pink flag but while under the captaincy of Swann. If you disagree, I'll support your recent arangement, but I think there should be something in Feng's section about the confusion. --Count Mall 00:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I honestly have no idea, do what you want. Therequiembellishere 01:32, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Um...Ok then...alright. Ok then. Ok. I guess I'll just do what evidence suggests... alright I guess... --Count Mall 02:12, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

On the official movie website Feng's flag is the purple (not pink) flag. Also, Feng would not have a westernized flag, and Elizabeth does not know how to speak, much less write, Chinese, and so her flag would not include Chinese characters.--Lord Grey 17:48, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It does not say it's his. It says "China Sea" (or something), not "Sao Feng". Its ambiguous. Pirate's Code by Gibb's clearly labels the skeletan one as "Sao Feng"'s. I admit Fneg's crew did hoist the 'purple' flag, but after he died and Swann took control. I've been doing nothing but trying to stay acurate to the evidence. As far as your evidence, it's lame, and we dont know whats going on in their heads! Stick with the evidence, people.--24.56.216.190 04:44, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

My evidence is not lame, it is sensible. And the flag on the site says nothing at all. However, when you click on it, it gives you information on Sao Feng, not Elizabeth Swann. The official site takes presidence over a low-status book.--Lord Grey 18:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Can we just DROP this already. We dont know which one is ment to more cannon so your evidence is, in fact, flawed. We have to go with what the evidence points to and not what makes most sence to US. I PROMISE TO DEAR LORD ALMIGHTY that we can pick this up when the movie comes out and we both own a copy. There should be at least SOMETHING in there that will tell us. For now, let us just stick with what this little evidence points to. --Count Mall 02:24, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

How can you say my evidence is flawed? The official site states that Feng's flag is the purple one! I haven't even heard of this book, and, though I am sure it exists, it can't be accepted over the movie's official website. I'm sorry but, common sense should tell you that Elizabeth would not have a Chinese flag. The red skeleton flag was raised over the Black Pearl in the movie, prior to the battle around Calypso's maelstrom! As I have also said, as Feng avoided the Western world, and its problem's, he wouldn't be sporting a western flag. Everyone is saying "look at the facts" and "stick to the sources", when I have tried to get everyone to use common sense, and accept the source with greater presedence. People from Disney made that website! Some book author who recieved a license from Disney wrote the book. Its doubtful that the publishers of the book looked over the flags to make sure they were correct, and took for granted that the author had already done that. It was a mistake! You must accept the official site over the book! If not the site, then the movie, which does have the Black Pearl hoisting Barbossa's and Elizabeth's flag, while the Empress hoists Feng's flag. I mean it makes sense, if Swann was using the Pearl as her flagship, then why would (what you believe to be) her flag, be hoisted on another ship? You can't blindly follow this book you keep refering to, but listen to reason, and the official sources.--Lord Grey 11:51, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Because it was no longer Feng's ship, it was her ship. She was using the Pearl as her flagship, but only because it was most familier to her, and the Empress was her ship. The Pearl would not hoist her flag because it is not her ship, it is grudgingly shared between Barbossa and Jack. Feng is DEAD so his flag would not be flown at all. Common sense isnt always the best way to answer things. I wish someone else would voice their opinion, but lets look at what we have.

Your reasoning

• Why would Elizabeth fly a flag with Chinese characters on it?
• Why would Feng fly a Western style flag when he avoids the West?

My (Countmaall's) reasoning

• The book lists Feng's flag as the skeleton one.
• The site lists the pink flag as the flag of the South China Sea. It's label doesnt even mention Feng.
• Going with reasoning from the official sources, and not common sense, Feng's flag would be the skeleton one while Elizabeth's would be the pink one.
• The Empress does, in fact, fly the pink flag. However, this was during the Captainsy of Elizabth.
• Why would fierce and powerful Feng fly a pretty pink flag with lace?
• Why would the female and caring Elizabeth fly a flag with a terrifying blood-red skeleton?

I am using common sense and official sources. The label does mention Feng, because when you click the flag it goes to his picture and profile! Since Elizabeth is using the Black Pearl as her flagship, she would use her flag, not submit to Barbossa. And, in fact, both of them fly their flags, a ship is not limited to one flag. Also, back then, pink was considered to be a nessicarily a feminine colour. And your also using sexist stereotypes by assuming that a woman would not use a "terrifying" skeleton flag (we are talking about a pirate you know, she's not so warmhearted and caring). Besides, using your logic, why would "sweet and caring" Elizabeth have a severed arm on her flag? I am not only using common sense, and that's just putting words into my mouth by saying that I am. I said a combination of common sense and the official source. The book cannot be more canon then the official site; the site must be accepted over the book. You people aren't listening to reason, and you keep forcing me to repeat myself, when all my explainations are in my previous comments. The site is more canon, and it must be taken over the book.--Lord Grey 12:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

We're talking about Elizabeth. She IS caring and warmhearted or have you not actually seen the movies. Its kinda obvious. You are also making me repeat myself. Also Feng was dead and no longer a lord by the time of the battle, therefor his flag would not be flown at all. I am going with nothing but official sources and not worrying about common sence (this is Wikipedia, commen sence is not the best answer some times).--Count Mall 21:27, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I no longer care about the consequences that may follow, but I feel I must speak my mind. You are a complete moron. You keep repeating yourself, you ignore everything I say, no matter how I defend myself, you skip over the defense and go right back to your flawed accusations. You are just like a mentally-challenged parrot. Elizabeth is a pirate, you fool. Killers aren't all-around good people. How dare you insult my intelligence by assuming I don't realize what you are trying to do either. I have given you solid facts and sources, you have ignored them, and made the false assumtion (again) that I'm just using common sense. Tai Huang adopted Feng's flag as his own, pardon the phrase but: "duh". You are no better than a simple-minded vandal and you, and those like you, all make me sick to the stomach.--Lord Grey 00:17, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Dont bad mouth me, and I am not a vandal. I hate vabdals, vandals should die and burn in Hell. That we agree on (yay!!). I am not mentally chalanged either. Tai Huang wouldnt have adopted his own flag because works for Elizabeth. It would like Gibbs taking a flag. And I am not saying killers are all-around good people, but Elizabeth is. And you ARE using mainly common sense, and you've said so yourself. I admit, you are using SOME official sources, but I am using more official sources than you. Dont take this the wrong way, I have never tried to insult you here, I have only tried to stay true to Wikipedia codes. And you are not the lord of England, and you also keep repeating yourself, you also said that yourself. --Count Mall 17:33, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, this certainly doesn't seem to be going anywhere, so, if Wikipedians want to mislead their readers, then fine.--Lord Grey 16:58, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Thats exactly what I'm trying NOT to do--Count Mall 18:46, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Official Website Mini-Game

I just checked it and they have a new thing n the treasure. There's the Jolly Roger, the shield and the Pirata Codex, which won't open on my browser, so could somebody please open it up and find out if it gives any information or is just another game within the game. Therequiembellishere 07:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

To pick at an old bone . . .

Is there any actual evidence that that Jack changed his last name from Teague to Sparrow? Therequiembellishere 07:49, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Teague is his father and his father's last name is Teague and not Sparrow. This is proved because he is known as Captain Teague, and officially the title Captain is followed by the surname, and "Captain Teague" is being used in the official manner. Since at this time the son would inherit his father's surname, he must have changed his surname to Sparrow at some point in his early teenage years because he used Sparrow during the canon prequel books, when he is about 16.--Count Mall 00:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I know, and that sounds logical, but Jack is known as Captain Jack and since when have Disney movies used correct titles? I have almost always heard the King or Queen addressed as "Your Highness" when it should be "Your Majesty". Therequiembellishere 02:46, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Villinueve is a good example. His first name is Eduardo but he goes by Captain Villinueve. --Count Mall 03:17, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'll accept it ^^ Therequiembellishere 03:18, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Teague

Should we move his bio from the minor character's page to here since he's the Keeper and all?--Count Mall 03:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I guess, tey don't have a page on the other Pirate Lords. Therequiembellishere 03:18, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Images

Some flags and Teague's pic are about to be deleted. Could somebody help me out here? I have no idea how to do rationals!! Save the flags!!! Pleeeeeeaaaaaase!!!!!--Count Mall 17:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Teaque's flag

File:Teagueflag.jpeg

How's this?

You can see Teaque's flag here. It is very similar to Blackbeard's flag but with two white hearts and without horns on skeleton's head. --89.172.202.168 08:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Alright...I'll see what I can do.--Count Mall 17:10, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Alright...how do you feel about this?--Count Mall 18:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

No its a fan made image and therfore cant be used here, pluse the figure in teagues flag is a demon lik blackbeards not a skeleton.--172.212.54.216 09:09, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the one that somebody just put I like better, too.--Count Mall 12:45, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

But is there a copyright status and a source?--Count Mall 12:48, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

This flag here is much better then flag seen in the article. --89.172.230.99 13:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Really? --Count Mall 13:18, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

But I think that there is no watch-glass on the flag. --89.172.193.159 15:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah...but the arm is up like that--Count Mall 19:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Your flag is fan made therfore it CAN NOT be used in a wikipedia article the flag in the article is the jolly roger of a historical pirate, which the film makers have adopted for teague, like villanueva uses black beards flag.

Watch the video. I am trying to reconstruct Teague's flag from the 3 seconds of footage that it can be seen. It is not fan made it is fan compiled. And why is the one on the article any different? It's fan made, just look at it. You can tell there used to be horns there. Hypocrite.--Count Mall 01:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

You are rather stupid arent you, ive seen the video I know the flag you made is accurate but it DOES NOT matter, you MADE IT YOURSELF therfore it CAN NOT and WILL NOT be used here, do you understand now or do i need to use even smaller words.

Why are you getting mad. I'm just confused because your the only one who has a problem. I have nothing in this flag that is my own work, it was created by the creaters of POTC. They had shown on footage, but, unfortunately, they dont give a clear enough shot to use here. I am taking the elements of that and using it to recreate it. I'm sorry I upset you, but why havent you said anything about the one that was on the article. I sucked and it was fanmade. I ENCOURAGE you to go find an official picture of his flag. If you cant, and I couldnt, we have to reconstruct it from the video fottage. Come on, this whole conversation is supposed to be how to improve that flag or whether we should use it, but not being able you use it because I HAD to consruct confuses me. By the way check out Naruto Geography if you dont like fan made images. --Count Mall 13:46, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Im not getting mad im trying help you understand why we cant use your image because you dont seem to get it. Yes I know the film makers DESIGHNED that flag for teague making it his flag, but the image you have presented to this website to use in the article was MADE BY YOU on paint if im not mistaken, MADE not DESIGNED, if for example your image had been retreived from the at world's end website then fine we could use it BUT IT WAS MADE BY YOU, it is very accurate and i applaude your effort BUT IT WAS MADE BY YOU making it an unnofficial replica, PLEASE try to understand this before one of us dies or goes mad (Ps I did not realise the other one was fan made I appologize).--JohnnyMul-Holland 14:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Images#Making_images_yourself. Still confused. --Count Mall 14:48, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, deep breath, brethe. Right if for example an image for a wikipedia article was required of the Sea, then a photograph taken of the sea by a user could be uploaded for the use of this website, because noboady owns the sea. The Pirates of the Caribbean film franchise is copyrighted material, Disney hold the rights to the serires and that teagues flag as you have said was made by the film makers, if Teagues flag appeared on the pirates of th caribbean website or the essential guide to pirates of the caribbean or any other domain or product released by disney then fine, but a fan made copy of an image copyrighted by disney cannot be used on wikipedia (except on your user page) Please tell me you got that.--JohnnyMul-Holland 15:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I got'cha. But there is no good shot of his flag. What can we use? Or should we just ignore it? Do you know an administrator we could ask? By the way, about that other flag, you didnt know it was fan made? Really. Where did you find it? --Count Mall 16:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Im afraid theres nothing we can do we just have to exlude the flag all together, I found the other flag on a google search by the way, I hope that no offense has been caused by this edit conflict as i think your a very good editor, we could use you on the Pirates of the Caribbean Wiki, if you could find that paragraph about madagascar it would be most appreaciated.--JohnnyMul-Holland 16:13, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. What does it mean by 'draw an image digitally'. I thought it ment we could use the flag, oh well. --Count Mall 17:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Edward Teague

whats the source for teague being called edward.--172.143.167.230 21:57, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

There's a note y'know . . . Therequiembellishere 23:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Supposedly its the At World's End video game.--Count Mall 17:09, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

And Pirate Lord of Madagascar?--172.212.143.59 21:04, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

LOOK AT THE NOTES. Therequiembellishere 22:08, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Well Id like to see a link otherwise im going to remove the info.--172.212.54.216 08:49, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

ITS ALL SOURCED--Count Mall 12:49, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

CAN YOU PROVIDE A LINK YES OR NO.--JohnnyMul-Holland 21:09, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

No, the source is not an internet source. But it is sourced, taking it off will be vandalism.--Count Mall 01:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you posses this book.

Yes I do--Count Mall 14:49, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Well then could you please type the exact passage that describes teagues posotion as Pirate Lord of Madagascar here on this page.

Chapter 1, page 7, paragraph 2, line 12. Sentance 5 on lines 10-12: "...Barbossa maintained that only a Pirate King could declare war and this was confirmed by Captain Teague-the Pirate Lord of Madagascar and Keeper of the Code".--Count Mall 16:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pirate lords.jpg

Image:Pirate lords.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)