Wikipedia:Drawing board/Archives/2007/September

William Turnbull (ETS)

Would this man qualify for an entry in Wikipedia? He was a Princeton graduate (psychology) who was appointed VP of the Educational Testing Service in 1948. He took over as President of the ETS from 1970 to 1981 and won AERA's E.F. Lindquist Award in '81.

I haven't created an article for Wikipedia before and don't want to start by adding anything which is unwelcome. -- Analog Kid 17:45, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. If you simply put up a stub that consists of your second through fourth sentences, it's quite likely that someone would say that there was a lack of notability. More importantly, if you just put up a couple of sentences, and it gets deleted, you've wasted your time and the time of other editors.

But I think that if you wanted to do a reasonable amount of work on this, it would be fine. The goal would be to write (say) at least a couple of paragraphs, with a half-dozen or so citations. Then you'll have created something that (a) won't be challenged and (b) can be built on by others.

In doing a Google search, I came across this: "We end the book with William Turnbull fighting the growing criticism of ETS and eventually succumbing to the pressure." That part of Turnbull's story certainly seems worth an encylopedia article. One place to start would be the Atlantic Monthly, June 1980 ("The Test and the Brightest"), available online only to subscribers, but certainly available via libraries (and citable as such). (Similarly, "The Great Sorting", Atlantic Monthly, September 1995.) For example, from that second article, "ETS therefore wound up in an odd position with respect to intelligence testing. Within the organization and its ambit there have always been pockets of belief in g as an inherited trait. Chauncey's extremely conscientious No. 2 man, William Turnbull, though not a g man, confessed in a 1963 memo to Chauncey that he harbored a "long-held conviction that 'native intelligence' has some point to it."

Finally, for new articles, see Wikipedia:Your first article. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 18:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

World Gaming Center Article! 123,352 is enough users to show its noticable

And we need to make one without it being deleted —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndrewWGCMAN (talk • contribs) 20:32, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you review Wikipedia:Notability (web) and then post (here) in what way you think this website qualifies? (I note, for the record, that an article on this topic has been deleted five times to date with the name "World Gaming Center" and an additional two times with the name "World gaming center"; one of the seven deletions included this AfD.) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 00:56, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Clayton Kratz

I think that wikipedia should have a page on Clayton Kratz. I can research him and such but I would like some help. Some people who were related to him go to my church and I am pretty sure they would let me see some of his things for photo's and to ask questions and stuff. Anyone willing to help? I don't think I will be able to make a whole Wikipedia article by myself. Even if you could just edit my works daily and tell me what would be helpful to readers would be helpful to me. I really think he deserves this. Please post on my talk page, It is Callan93 please!!!!!! Callan93 00:18, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm putting a note on your talk page, as requested, but I want to point out here that things that aren't accessible to the public (for example, personal stories and photos) fall under our prohibition against no original research. You can certainly use such information to inspire or guide you in your writings, but you absolutely should not cite it. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 13:19, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

in other words i shouldn't say who the people are or where i got the items from?Callan93 20:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

It's not a matter of where information comes from (sure, you can say that, assuming whoever provides you the info is agreeable); it's a matter of whether the information was ever published.

Having said that, let me correct myself: Wikipedia is quite happy to have editors upload and add images (such as photographs) to articles (where appropriate) even though they haven't ever been published. In fact, generally, being published means there is a copyright, and Wikipedia does NOT put copyrighted images into articles. So, for example, a scanned photo of Clayton as a young man, from someone's personal photograph album, could be an excellent addition to an article. (For more about adding images to Wikipedia, see Wikipedia:Copyright FAQ and Wikipedia:Image use policy.)

What is problematical, then, is content (words) in an article. Consider this example, "Clayton was always a risk-taker, according to several people who talked to his relatives". If a reporter talked to Clayton's relatives, and this sentence was in a newspaper article, then it could be in the Wikipedia article. But if you are the one who wrote that sentence, based on interviews you did, letters you read that have never been published, etc., then you are doing "original research" and that is unacceptable in Wikipedia articles. Please (re)read that policy; if it's still not clear, please ask again. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 22:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I figured that to avoid WP:COI issues it would be best if the article, and basic facts, were created and established by someone like me, that was previously unfamiliar with the topic (as well as not associated with the Mennonite community), so I created Clayton Kratz using the online sources I could find. I think they're pretty solid, but could possibly be challenged as they're basically all from the Mennonite community, so any offline print sources that could be found would help for WP:VERIFY. The books and other published material used as refs for the Molotschna, Mennonite Central Committee, and maybe even Russian Mennonite articles seem likely candidates. Mainstream news sources would be best--one source also mentions article(s) in the Harrisonburg (VA) Daily News Record. Adding photographs and other images would contribute greatly to the article, as long as the current owners of the images understand they must be released to the public domain, or licensed under the GFDL or compatible license. Good luck. Hellosandimas 23:00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Nicely done. Thanks. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Science in Switzerland

I would like to start an article with this title, can anybody help? Laleena 21:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

You might start by adding a section to the article Switzerland. You could also ask about other interested editors at Talk:Switzerland, or, probably better, Wikipedia:WikiProject Switzerland. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

International credential evaluation

Text deleted - JB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.249.30 (talk) 23:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Please read our policy on no original research. Basically, we want reliable sources to provide content for articles; we don't want essays by contributors. Sorry. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:59, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Soul Broker

Soul Broker is a heavy-rock quintet formed in 2004 and based in Richmond CA. Their debut CD Soul For Sale has had moderate success and they have spent the last 3 years building a reputation for great, energetic shows filled with blues-based stoner metal coupled with a punk rock sensibility.

Vocals: Mike Billings
Lead Guitar: Dan Wingfield
Rhythm Guitar: Keith Manners
Bass: "The Reverend" Harlem Watts
Drums: Mike Airoldi

www.soulbrokermusic.com
www.myspace.com/soulbroker
www.cdbaby.com/cd/soulbroker

Brainchylde 00:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

If you look at Wikipedia:Notability (music), you'll find a dozen criteria for a band to be considered notable. Which one(s) do you think this band has met? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 02:01, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Live Simply

Does live simply warrant a page?

It is currently ranked 5000 in the UK see Alexa

Its the first website to allow both landlords and agents to advertise for free online. Search google for Livesimply.co.uk

it features in several reviews online, and has been mentioned by industry experts in offline publications.

However it is a small company and a website?

what's your opinion?

Thanks--82.45.173.171 11:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you read Wikipedia:Notability (web) and see if this website qualifies for an article, based on that guideline. As for offline publications, many are certainly reliable sources; the question probably would be more whether (in this case) they are (I'm guessing) small (local) newspapers, which often simply rewrite press releases. But an article in a national publication in a specialized area (say, online marketing) is fine. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 02:05, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Body Modification

If the lizard man can have his own Wikipedia page, then these two individuals definitely should have one as well!:

http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/addsub/

That's pretty extreme if you ask me. --69.84.118.221 02:05, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

April 1, 1999 publication date. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 13:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

So can we include it? --69.84.118.221 17:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

You're going to have to provide another source for this claimed transfer of a human limb; an April Fool's day article is NOT a reliable source. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 21:14, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Note that the existence of similar articles is not a valid reason for inclusion of an article.--Max Talk (+) 21:21, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

PRAKASH INDUSTRIES

PRAKASH INDUSTRIES LIMITED(PIL) is an emerging indian limited company.It manufactures steel,pvc pipes.It has recently signed some contract with Barclay's also.I am very impressed by its outcomes..Its share price rose from 38 or so to 100 ruppees within 3-4 months on bse.It is a part of surya roshni,another leading lightning company in india.According to me PIL has a great future.I request for views regarding formation of an article of the same.some sources as follows:

official website PIL bse homepage PIL money contol homepage

Kanha008 12:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies), which lays out criteria for whether organizations should have a separate article or not. In particular, you need to provide links to independent sources of information (newspaper and magazine articles, generally; stock price quotes and a company's website are almost meaningless in determining notability. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 21:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Da frame 2r / DAFRAME2R

Arctic monkeys rarity 'da frame 2r' has relatively no publicity at all, yet it is a fantastic track. it is supposedly set to be released as a b-side to a new single, 'matador', which is also a fantastic track. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.211.131 (talk) 22:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Per WP:NOT, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. If something becomes very successful, THEN it's appropriate for Wikipedia. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 21:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

JL Audio

Can we have an article about the car audio company JL Audio? 12.175.85.80 19:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Off-hand, I'd say that the company is entitled to an article. To repeat what it says at the top of the page:

• If you simply want to suggest a topic for an article without giving any details or sources, go to Wikipedia:Requested articles. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 21:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Apex Electronics

Apex Electronics is a small family owned business that specializes in buying and selling surplus electronics. It is also a tourist attraction.

Apex Electronics was established in 1953 and has been at the same location 46 years.

It has the biggest electronics surplus mess on earth. Its a wonderful place.

http://www.xymox1.com/Apex/Apex.htm

They now have a virtual tour

http://www.apexelectronic.com/virtual.htm

http://www.apexelectronic.com/

They have supplied movie and TV props for decades for some famous movies. Aircraft, Electronics & Military Props http://www.la411.com/company-Apex%20Electronics&lid-3600308.htm

There was a story in the LA Weekly on this place

You have to scroll to the bottom of the page where it starts off "MADMEN AND TINKERERS" and it continues on page 2.

http://www.laweekly.com/general/a-considerable-town/hunting-and-gathering-the-cult-of-the-purple-mulberry-eaters/10400/

It needs a wiki page. --Xymox1 00:13, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

After thinking about this I regret this might be a local interest :(

--Xymox1 05:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, probably only of local interest. The LA Weekly story is a very good start, but if that's the only story that meets our criteria for reliable sources, the company isn't notable enough. Is does seem to be getting some attention from bloggers (see, for example, this), but that isn't enough. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 14:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Early vertical forearm

EVF is a term becoming popular in competetive swimming. It apples to all four strokes commonly used in swimming: Freestyle, Backstroke, Butterfly, Breastroke.

I'm only puting this on the drawing board because I don't even know if anyone will ever search it. 65.24.110.225 20:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Per WP:NOT, Wikipedia isn't a dictionary. Please see Wiktionary for a better alternative. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 12:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

West Indian Intellectuals

I would like to start up a web page that brings together the Intellectuals from the English-speaking Caribbean. There are some web pages for some random individuals, but no page brings them all together. People like CLR James, Carolyn Cooper, Derek Walcott, Stuart Hall, perhaps a hundred more, should be recognized collectively here.

I'll be back tomorrow to check in. 138.49.40.190 20:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

There are real problems with getting agreement/consensus among editors on terms such as "intellectual" - who is, who isn't. I discourage you from pursuing this.

If you do go forward, you have two alternatives: a list (a separate page) or a category (adding a category to each biography of a qualifying "intellectual"). See Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and series boxes for a comparison of the merits of each. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 12:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Lifestyle Coaching

What is a lifestyle Caoch? A lifestyle coach is a coach that aims at improving all physical, soial and psychological aspects of his/her clients. A basic knowledge of health, fitness, nutrition, sociology and psychology are necessary. A full qualification in these areas is not necessary although having a qualification in one field and basic course in the other should procide the coach with more vast knowledge. The ultimate aim of the lifestyle coach is to help the person him/herself create his or her goals and also understand the requirements and plan for achieving these goals which are obviously directed to enhanced health matters, better quality of life and nonetheless prevention of disease. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.156.120 (talk) 14:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I think this topic has possibilities; it seems more than a definition (if that were all it were, it should go into Wiktionary. However, there needs to be at least a few reliable sources as the basis for the article, not merely definitions of what such coaches do (probably taken from web pages of those who call themselves "life coaches"). Things such as (1) who were among the earliest to call themselves "life coaches"; (2) are there any formal certifications? (3) what do consumer organizations and other potential skeptics say (criticism); (4) what have national publications like the New York Times, Newsweek, the New Yorker, and so on, written on the topic (if nothing at all, that's not a good sign). In short, references, references, references. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Astral Catalype

For some years i had suffered from these types occurances. I felt niether awake nor asleep. It was very spiritual. My mind told me simply that it was my mind waking before my body.... My spirit told me it was more of a spiritual warfare. I'd awaken unable to move. My body may as well have been lead. There were disturbing forces at hand- once, it was almost as if this force was trying to pry my mouth open to enter my body. Though my entire body was immobile it took any and all my strength to keep my mouth closed. It seemed like an eternity. I snapped or came to almost in a cry to God to help me. I was exhausted but it was over for the moment. I heard very little of astral catalypse and am interested in knowing more. Does the spirit realm have anything to do with it?? Or are these two separate occurances happening simultaneously? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wisper314 (talk • contribs) 17:10, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Please post such questions at the Reference desk; this page is about possible new articles, not personal questions. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Ustream.tv

Hi, I would like to propose the creation of an entry about Ustream.tv. I guess it can start out with a stub to begin with and then enhance or expand upon it after reading more about it. Just a little background about Ustream.tv is that it's almost like a live version of "YouTube." It's basically still in the web 2.0 stage but from what I've read on CNET, it could be the next best thing because it has already won several awards such as the Webware 100, which also included well-known internet sites such as YouTube, Flickr, Photobucket, Yahoo! Video, and Netflix, and Under the Radar: Best in Show among others. Also, over the past few months, presidential hopefuls such as John Edwards, Chris Dodd, Hillary Clinton, and Mike Huckabee have been been broadcasting live from their campaign trails, trying to connect with younger voters. I will be happy to help create this article because I have found out quite a lot about the company the past month while reading their daily blog and by means of those who stream regularly such as well-known techie Leo Laporte. I would appreciate if at least a stub about Ustream.tv could be made for the time being. Nnssm 23:31, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

It's best not to start a stub unless there is enough there to avoid getting it immediately deleted (about 2000 articles a day are deleted here, most of which have been posted for less than 24 hours). Once an article is deleted, it's much harder to get it re-created; so it's best to get it right the first time.

Let's start with "I've found out quite a lot ... while reading their blog". First, what you personally know is not relevant; you need to cite sources. Second, blogs are not reliable sources. The awards do tend to indicate notability, which is crucial if a new article is to remain alive. So, before I give you some more specific suggestions, what links/sources can you provide from independent places - CNN, New York Times, PC World, whatever? (Note that incidental mentions, such a popular politician using the service, aren't relevant - there need to be articles about Ustream itself.

Also, editors here appreciate absolute honesty. You didn't mention, for example, that this topic has already been deleted three times:

1. 1:24, 27 August 2007 FisherQueen (Talk | contribs) deleted "Ustream.tv" ‎ (No assertion of notability)
2. 18:09, 24 August 2007 Jaranda (Talk | contribs) deleted "Ustream.tv" ‎ (CSD G11: Blatant Advertising)
3. 19:51, 22 August 2007 TexasAndroid (Talk | contribs) deleted "Ustream.tv" ‎ (CSD R1: Redirect to non-existent page)

Finally, you've come very close to wearing out your welcome by this posting, which violated our rule against personal attacks. You're a complete newcomer here, and you appear almost clueless about the rules, so I strongly recommend that (a) you ask, don't demand, that things be done, and (b) be fully prepared to admit (inadvertent, presumably) mistakes. I'm still willing to help, but you don't have a large reservoir of goodwill accumulated at this point. And if you have a conflict of interest, you need to declare it here and now.

So, to return to the point - what reliable sources can you cite? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:58, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Kieskagato

File:Http://classifieds.portlandmercury.com/photos/bafc841b574e7f815199497bf48c9074/large-1145128273-1.jpg

The extremely unique Portland, Oregon band should have a wikipedia page. They are an amazing band that have critics raving. Their music has been compared to Radiohead, Coldplay, Mogwai, and others.

http://www.kieskagato.com/

http://www.musicemissions.com/artists/albums/index.php?album_id=3431&sid=480963fc5f1c2b472e511a5b733ed04d

http://www.cosmik.com/aa-april-july07/reviews/review_kieskagato.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/105-7217533-8690849?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=music&field-artist=Kieskagato

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.portlandmercury.com/images/channel3-botw-top.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/Page%3Foid%3D304965&h=73&w=160&sz=5&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=QHtjVdLiUqygYM:&tbnh=45&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3Damazon%2Bkieskagato%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dyroba86 (talk • contribs) 04:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

If half the information posted on their website about press reviews is true, then they probably meet the criteria for bands (see several postings, above). Unfortunately, none of the quotes on the page are linked to their source; otherwise it would provide a starting point for a well-referenced article. Please look at Wikipedia:Notability (music) to see if the band meets the criteria laid out there. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 12:37, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Freebies and Free Stuff

The culture of requesting freebies and free items from various internet sources... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Milliondollars (talk • contribs) 05:29, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

We don't accept original writing; see Wikipedia:Alternative outlets for places that do. Unless this cultural phenomena has been notice by and published in reliable sources, it is inappropriate for Wikipedia. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 12:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Tyler Lee

Tyler Lee is a renowned video gamer and automotives enthusiast. He enjoys cheeseburgers and Cambodians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.30.222.183 (talk) 18:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Good for him. When he is notable, please feel free to come back here and post again. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 12:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

AFL commentating

Because we have so much AFL stuff, why don't we make one about AFL commentating. If you need help with any info, my login's mousejr —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.220.130.42 (talk) 13:50, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I'll take your word for it, regarding the login; perhaps next time you should log in before posting?

As for an article, you might start by stating exactly what you mean by AFL. Then you might consider when commentating about that (sport?) has been covered in media reports; if there are no reliable sources, there can't be an article.

Personally, this strikes me as a topic that would be very inviting for people to insert their own opinions, contrary to policy. Still, maybe three is a neutral language article that could be written, I suppose. So - sources? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 00:29, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Why not!

Why can't we make bios of people? Whats so bad about making things about people? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mousejr (talk • contribs) 13:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Good to see you signed in this time, before posting.

I'm guessing that you're referring to (your?) article on Ryan von Einem, a cached version of which is here. Basically, you don't seem to understand that Wikipedia only contains articles about notable people. You may feel that's unfair, or that everyone is entitled to an article because (well, whatever), or that the rules should be changed, but those are the rules; if you don't like them, please go elsewhere.

Another way of putting this: if someone isn't notable, then there aren't any reliable sources that have reported on that person, and so the only thing that could be in articles would be what we call original research - which is banned because, well, this is an encyclopedia, and we've got no way to distinguish truth from non-truth if we're relying on personal opinions and personal statements. Again, if you don't like that, there are tens of thousands of other websites where you can post whatever you want. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 00:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)