Talk:Ghilji

"The Lodi dynasty, who were rulers of the Delhi Sultanate (1450–1526), were Ghilzai Pashtuns."

This statement is wrong. The Ghilzai(Ghilji/Ghalji) are the kindred tribe of the Lodhis. The Ghilji are descendants of the eldest son, of Shah Hussein of Ghor and Bibi Mato, called Ghilji. The Lodhis are the descendants of the younger son, Ibrahim Loae. The Ghilji represent the western house of Mati and the Lodhi represent the eastern house of Mati. Together, they are called by their metronymic, the Matizai, which is rare in Afghan tribal culture.

Additionally, the Ghilji are not Khilji Turks,or descended therefrom. This is supposition on the part of the author. It derives from the mystery of the Khilji, a people described as allied to the Afghans during the latter's invasion of India and of residing in the area of Ghazni during the time of Sultan Mahmud of Ghazni. Ironically, today the Ghilji reside in that same area but they spread into the area, as they are famously part-time nomads, especially before modern borders were fixed, and used to travel in the winter as far as Calcutta. Also, most tribes of Turkish or 'Turco-Mongol' descent are proud of the fact and would not deny it if it were true e.g the Turi Turco-Mongol tribe of Pakistan's tribal areas, the Karlugh Turks of Hazara division or the Qizilbash Turks of Lahore.

Both the Ghilji and the Lodhi share the tribal heritage of descent from Shah Hussein, a Ghorid prince who left the petty kingdoms of his Ghorid homeland of Ghor and Bamiyan in search of spiritual growth. Thus, they are both descended from House of Ghor. The Ghorids were the rulers of the central massif of Afghanistan for hundreds of years till their destruction during the Mongol advance of Genghis Khan and were deemed to be descended from a ruler of Iran. Neither tribe of Ghilji or Lodhi has facial markers of Turkic/Mongol descent (wide set narrow eyes, flat facial features, brachycephalic heads). Rather, they have a surprising degree of variation in features, from Aryan to Semitic, similar to many Afghan tribes.

Please do not insist on this fable of Turkish descent. It is unsupported by books and by the tribal heritage of the people themselves. At the very least, let us obtain a neutral POV on the matter.

It definitely needs NPOV, and it needs sources. I have left in the idea about Turkish descent for the time being, but again, the point is that a source is needed. It would be interesting to know which language the Ghilzai speak. Itsmejudith 21:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Shah Hussein was not a Ghurid prince nor was he from Ghor but from modern Turkey. He was a Seldshuk prince that travelled to the Sulaiman Mountains..so the myth of the Ghalzais and their common father. Hussein which live in their myth was a Turk, the Gok-Turk tribe of Khalji was also a turk...but ok.. what do you say about that: Abdalis->Ephtalits (turco-mongolian tribe with some lesser iranians), Zadrans->Jadrans, Jaji (also Zazais)->Jaji, Kharoti->Karot/Kareit ...ect. that Pashtuns claim him as their ancestors is because Ghalzais and Seldshuks had still eastern asian features..and that brought them in contact ...even the Ghalzais lived for ca. 200 years in modern Afghanistan (Ghazna). They were maybe the direct descends of the Gök-Turks who defeated the Abdalis with the help of Vahram Gur who pushed them to modern pakistan. That´s why Ghalzais and Abdalis still fight eachother...tough both do not the reason for it because they have forgotten the happenings in the past but because their rivalery was still among them so they couldn´t and can´t stop with killing, raping and looting eachothers ownship.

To understand who these tribes are you have to analyze the turks, mongols and pashtun tribes clearly..their myth´s, their culture, language, names ect. The Khalji were originally from Altai, later moved to Turkestan where they migrated to Punjab and adopted first the language of the population there that´s why they had also all indian names..and later they became afghanized and they adopted their language. Sebütgin, the Ghaznavid ruler brought them from Punjab to Ghazni where they later felt into slavery of the Persian Ghurids...so they ptook them back to India where the Khaljis gave their children also islamic and persian names beside their indian names. With the death of the persian general Aybak they took the power of the Indo-Ghurid empire and started to manage the mamluk empire...slave-dynasty of delhi --Aspandyar Agha 12:29, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

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1722 - 1725 H.M. Mahmud Shah, Shahanshah of Persia. b. at Kandahar, ca. 1699, educ. privately. Murdered his uncle and assumed the Governorship of Kandahar, 1717. Invaded Persia for the first time in 1719 and 1721-1722, which culminated in his victory at the battle of Gulnabad, 8th March 1722. Laid siege to Isfahan and forced the abdication of Shah Sultan Husain Safawi, 23rd October 1722. Responcible for the murder of a large number of Princes, nobles, and Qizilbashi notables, some by his own hand. Deposed by his cousin on account of his madness, 22nd April 1725. m. at Isfahan, 1722, Shahzadi ... Begum, sixth daughter of H.M. Zill-u'llah 'Abu'l Muzaffar Sultan Husain Shah, Shahanshah of Persia. He was k. in prison at Isfahan, 25th April 1725 (bur. at Najaf), having had issue:Copyright© Christopher Buyers 1) H.R.H. Shahzada ... Mirza. b. ca. 1723 (s/o the Shahzadi). He was blinded and k. on the orders of Ashraf Shah,

1725 - 1729 H.M. Ashraf Shah, Shahanshah of Persia. b. ca. 1700, educ. privately. Imprisoned by his cousin Mahmud Shah after he murdered his father, 1717. Succeeded on his deposition, 22nd April 1725. Released from confinement and crowned at Isfahan, 26th April 1726. Defeated the Turks 1726 and concluded a peace with them a year later. Terminated hostilities with the Russians and concluded a peace with them in 1729. Expelled from Mashhad and Herat by H.M. Shah Tahmasp II Safawi, and was forced out of Isfahan, 13th November 1729. m. at Isfahan, April 1725, Shahzadi ... Begum, seventh daughter of H.M. Zill-u'llah 'Abu'l Muzaffar Sultan Husain Shah, Shahanshah of Persia. He was k. by his adherents while fleeing towards Kandahar, 1730.

Itsmejudith 21:01, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Ghilzai

The Ghilzai are not Turks or Tatars (the Tatars are a Turko-Mongol group in Eastern Europe!!!). It is speculated by some that they may have had some distant links to the Khalaj people who are counted among the early Turkic tribes, but this is only speculation, because the Ghilzai neither have East Asian physical appearance nor any signs of Altaic influence in their language except for some vocabulary that infiltrated Pashto after the Mongol conquest (that means some 500 years after the Khilji had already moved into the Iranian Plateau). And even if the distant ancestors of the Ghilzai were Turks, it has definitely changed in the past 1000 (!!) years. The Hotaki dynasty existed in the 18th century, that means more than 800 years after the migration of the Khiljis, and more than 500 years after the Turko-Afghan Khilji dynasty of India. The Hotaki dynasty did not rule as Turks, they ruled as Sunni Pashtuns who claimed the throne of entire Persia. See this document from the website of Yale University: http://www.yale.edu/agrarianstudies/papers/19weapons.pdf -DerDoc 00:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC)