Talk:Madden Curse

Madden 97

Reggie White was featured on a cover of the Madden video game. Specifically, the Madden 97 video game, as seen here: http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/60000200/Images/29/1109041225701_MiscMadden97.jpg. Madden 97 was released in 1996, the year Reggie White had one of his most successful seasons, and his team went on to win Super Bowl XXXI. How is he not included in the discussion of the Madden curse or as a player that graced the Madden video game cover? Jdhein22 00:28, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

White is never mentioned in the sources, external links, etc. I guess the curse doesn't cover players before 2000, who knows, but it's not listed in the snopes article so adding Reggie White and the previous players would be original research.++aviper2k7++ 05:14, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

If I had to interpret this, I would say Reggie White was not affected by the curse directly, since he was not on the cover directly. However fact is fact, and he did pass away at the early age of just 43. Starze 05:15, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Eddie George?

Isn't it a bit of a stretch to say he was cursed when he had the best year of his career? Borisblue 07:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

2008 cover

Please see WP:NOT, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. The whole section revolves around original research and speculation.++aviper2k7++ 02:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Second Paragraph

Is the second Paragraph of this article really needed? It basically states information which is later stated in another, more proper parts of the Article. If it's really needed, perhaps one can just trim it down. --ShadowJester07 18:09, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Should be trimmed, not completely removed per WP:MOS. I'll try to trim it.++aviper2k7++ 18:18, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Why Just Football?

I am very willing to create a new "Curse of EA" page and move this over there. I can't believe people are disputing this page as a WP:NOT crystal ball when there are UFOs and other pages that are even less proven. Anyhow why limit it to just football?

1. What about Dan Heatley of the Atlanta Thrashers in hockey. He was in a major car accident that killed his teammate after he graced the cover.
2. What about Roy Jones Jr the boxer who graced the cover of Fight Night 2004 and suffered back-to-back losses. His first two real defeats in his career.
3. Shaquille O'Neal: Misses 28 games in 1996. Then left Orlando to Los Angeles in the off-season.

Starze 05:06, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Adding such would be original research. If it's verifiable and written about by news medias, then add it, but I doubt it's written about in that context. And my crystal ball comment was directed toward a section someone created speculating the 2008 cover.++aviper2k7++ 05:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I am going to see if others have more comments before I make any page changes. The news/media are not going to write it in that context. They don't want to be sued by the billion dollar EA conglomerate. But it is in forums all over, and to me that's better than 1 news person saying it thru some news center. Starze 05:25, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately it's not. Please see WP:V as Wikipedia frowns upon sourcing forums or blogs. Adding this information would be against WP:OR due to lack of sources linking this to the madden curse.++aviper2k7++ 06:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok I have enough reliable sources to link a ton of new info. I am proposing a move of this page to "EA curses". It is fascinating stuff that should not be limited to just 1 sport. Any objections?Starze 04:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

There are many more sources that site a "Madden Curse". There are more reliable sources that call it the "Madden Curse" and not EA Curse. I've never heard of an EA Curse actually. Google results turn only 1,970 results while madden curse returns 64,000. Moving this page to EA curse wouldn't make much sense as most people know this as the Madden Curse.++aviper2k7++ 22:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry. I can move the wikipedia page no problem, and it will self-link to madden curse to the new EA curse page. Done it many times. The google result is not indicative of anything, since a search on "madden" will result in 25 million hits versus "nba live" with just 2 million hits. So "madden curse" is definitely going to get you a higher number. Compared to the other sports, the football player injuries are quite minor in comparison. Let's see if anyone else objects. I do appreciate your feedback. With my sources I do have alot more info to offer. The only one I probably won't bother mentioning is Shaq's 28 games since I honestly couldn't get a decent reference on it. Thanks again. Starze 04:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I searched "Madden curse" in parenthesis, which searches the whole term. I really don't see your argument, how can 1,970 hits on the term "EA curse" be verifiable? I mean, the term Madden Curse is quite well known, more-so than EA Curse. There's more reliable and verifiable sources with the "Madden Curse" than there is "EA Curse". Don't know why it'd need changing.++aviper2k7++ 05:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Did you know EA the company acknowledged the curse when they pulled Dan Heatley's cover off the shelf. That has NEVER HAPPENED IN FOOTBALL. Please read the Wikipedia:Five pillars because you point of view is no longer neutral, limiting to your favorite sport. Also please read What Wikipedia is not. Because you are currently "censoring" and "discriminating collections of information". Really, I am open to any discussion not based on popularity. There is no policy in wikipedia saying materials are only allowed when it has reached X number of hits on a search engine. Starze 17:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Who said my favorite sport was football? I've played hockey all my life. It's not a point of view, it's the amount of valid sources writing about a Madden Curse and not EA Curse. Unless you own a book or a couple of magazines that say something about an "EA Curse", there is not enough Validity to change the name of the page. There's thousands or articles about a Madden Curse and there's about one or two good valid articles about an EA curse.++aviper2k7++ 21:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I have left this discussion open for 3 days, and the only attempt to prove an "EA curse" does not exist is that google doesn't have enough hits for an unwritten article? Other wikipedians are not going to be able to input for the other sports, when this page continues to suppress to 1 league. Again, this is censorship and discriminating information against wikipedia policies. This page will be moved to "EA curse", and it will self-link to "Madden curse" automatically. The word "Madden curse" is not going to disappear. Don't worry. It will certainly be incorporated into the next article changes. You may not accept "EA curse", and I can understand. But thousands of hits on google tell me it has already been accepted. Your argument is based entirely on looking the other way. Starze 04:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, first off, there’s no real evidence that proves the existence of either curse; we merely assume the two exist based on pure superstition, similar to broken mirror and black cat phenomena. The Madden and SI curse have gained wide spread attention for three basic reasons, consistency, frequency, and recognition. The only reason why the madden curse article has not been deleted is because various, credible sources, ei CNN, ESPN, 1UP, ect have written about it, and reinforced the information with credible facts. Additionally, something has gone wrong to almost every player who appeared on the cover – perhaps not all – but to the extent and frequency at which it has drawn significant media attention. If you claim that there is an EA curse, please state some sources that can verify your claim. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  05:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Here are 4 quick references for starters. Notice how they call it "EA cover curse" or "Curse of EA" or "EA sports curse". If anyone doubt the legitimacy of the sources, I'd rather post this to wikipedia dispute page and let the administrators take a look. Otherwise I'd like to move on with the editing.

Yahoo.com
PC gameworld
Gamespy
Xbox gamezone Starze 17:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

While the sources are legitimate, they seem to be dated, a majority of the sources are from 2004. Also, the sources seem to only attack athletes who have had something bad happen to them. Albert Pujols appeared on the cover of EA’s MVP 2004, had one of the best seasons of his career in 2005. The hockey thing is also questionable, while one thing happened to Markus Näslund, Vincent Lecavalier, or Alexander Ovechkin. Additional questions can be raised about EA’s NCAA Football/Basketball and NBA Series. As I mentioned before, constancy is one of the most important things when when one writes something about a speculative subject. It's a natural tendency to connect events that occur in sequence, Leading us to associate superstitious phenomena with misfortunes, and ignore the laws of probability (Locke, Hume, Aristotle). Using similar rationale, I can assume all Chicago Bears quarterbacks with the even jersey numbers will be plagued with bad luck ( ei Chris Chandler, Cade McNown, Rex Grossman, Shane Matthews, Kordell Stewart). The Madden Curse, with the exception of the Eddie George, has proven to be consistent. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  23:41, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok I added a section below. I guess I am not going to bother putting it into the main article. Starze 17:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Non-Football Curses

Here is a list of non-football related curses. Feel free to add to the list. It has been decided that the article be kept to football materials only, since injuries are more consistent on a season to season basis. Should other sports result in the same consistency in the future, the article may be rediscussed to relocate to an EA curse page instead. Starze 17:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Hockey

• Dany Heatley was featured on the cover of NHL 2004. Afterwards the Atlanta star was involved in a preseason car crash that killed teammate Dan Snyder. Heatley will face vehicular manslaughter charges stemming from the crash. EA took the game off the shelve and recirculated the game with a new cover.Source
• Eric Lindros was on the cover of NHL 1999. During an April 1, 1999 game against the Nashville Predators, Lindros suffered a collapse lung life threatening injury. Lindros was sidelined, and striped of his captaincy. He would not play in the 2000-01 season, followed by years of trade disputes and conflict with management.Source

Baseball

• St. Louis Cardinals Albert Pujols was on the cover of MVP Baseball 2004. His Cardinals lost in a four-game World Series sweep to the supposedly Bambino-cursed Boston Red Sox.Source

• Randy Johnson was featured in the covers of Triple Play 2003. He had a dismal season along with a number of injuries. His ERA nearly doubled, he had more losses than wins.Source

Boxing

• Roy Jones Jr suffered back-to-back losses after he appeared in Fight Night 2004. The first two real defeats in his career. Knocked out by Antonio Tarver in May 2004. Knocked out by Glencoffe Johnson in September 2004.Source

Don't forget that the cover boy for NHL 2004 was supposed to be Joe Thornton, but they yanked him before any games were shipped due to assault charges. 24.83.3.54 23:43, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Vince Young on 2008 Cover...

Since numerous sources have reported that Vince Young is the 2008 cover player, he should have a section in this article. I added him earlier today, but he was removed. Note, the title of the section is "allegedly cursed". Since Vince Young is the 2008 cover player, he would now be "allegedly cursed". Whether the curse is effective or not (if he has a bad season or not), will obviously be determined much later. Bjewiki 23:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Since nothing has happened to him yet, there's no reason to add anything about him. The only true information one could add about him right now is the reported speculation that he may very likely appear on the cover of 08. There's no actual proof that he is even cursed since nothing bad has even happened to him, especially since the preaseason has not even started. It's better to add information when something actually does happens to him. See WP:NOT#Cystal Ball. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  23:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Multiple sources including Madden himself (i believe) and ESPN have reported he's the cover choice for the 2008 game. Remember, it's verifiable, not necessarily "truth", although in this case it appears to be true. In any case, the section in the article is "allegedly cursed". Since Vince Young is the 2008 cover player he is now "Allegedly cursed". If the section was "victims of the madden curse", well then that would be different, because he is not yet a victim. Bjewiki 00:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

See Chris' comments in the history logs. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  00:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

If I say that i'm putting a curse on you, you are now "Allegedly Cursed", in that i'm alleging that I put a curse on you. Bjewiki 00:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, but I don't take it to mean that. Each player has some reasons (albeit stupid ones) that people use to say they are cursed. That is what makes them allegedly cursed. The fact is that Vince Young has not had anything happen that makes him cursed, so what's the point of adding him here? We all know he's on the game, we all know about the bullshit curse, so what's the point of having that info here when it's already known and in other places?Chris Nelson 15:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

It's a moot point, as I changed the section heading to "Alleged Victims" days ago. Bjewiki 16:18, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

First of all, I think that's poor wording, as victims makes it sound somewhat violent and horrible. Allegedly cursed is much better. Secondly, Alleged victims, is even MORE inaccurate when describing Young, since a victim is someone that has ALREADY suffered something. You're not a victim before it happens to you. If I'm killed tomorrow, that doesn't make me a murder victim right now. It should be Allegedly cursed, and Young should not be here, plain and simple.Chris Nelson 18:36, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I made it "alleged victims", because they are alleged victims of the curse. And Young doesn't appear in the alleged victims section. Bjewiki 18:49, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

At this point the curse has been cast. You can add more info about how the curse affects him later, but the info should be out that he has the cover. Removing this information is pointless. The main reason some one would visit this page is to see what year some one had the cover. This year's cover is Vince Young; whether or not he is affected by the curse can be written about later. Digitial20

Young is not a victim of the curse yet - look at the title of section. You may add information about him when something bad actually happens to him. Also, you should probably note he does not play for the Houston Texans. He did, however, attended the University of Texas. ;-) --ShadowJester07 ► Talk 22:33, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Good point ShadowJester, he was drafted by the Titans, the curse lives!!!!! I'll add it immediately. Digitial20

Also please take note that Young is not a victim yet - he's been 'cursed', but has yet to victimize him. The section is only reserved for players that have been 'victimized' by the 'curse'. --ShadowJester07 ► Talk 23:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

If being drafted by the Titans does not make him a victim, I do not know what does... Digitial20

Someone wrote this:

Young allegedly punched a teammate in the head during a training camp practice.

What do you say about that?24.83.3.54 23:36, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

And now it's gone. Odd. 24.83.3.54 23:39, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

And yesterday he went out with a leg injury. We'll see how long he's out. That could be enough to put him in. --204.11.134.202 13:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

The Madden Curse isn't always injuries.

Consider Young's stats to date: 5 games played 703 yds passing 3 TD's versus INT's 1 rushing TD 68 QB Rating Statistically, he is the worst QB in the League right now among active QB's TehPhil 15:42, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Garrison Hearst?

Does anybody have a screen of the Garrison Hearst cover? I know it says that the Madden-only cover was more popular, but I've never seen the Garrison Hearst one. I suppose the same with Madden 2000 and Barry Sanders. Sanders was the focus of the game and the new rushing additions, but ... I don't think he was ever on the cover of any versions in the final print.

Google is an amazing tool.Chris Nelson 00:01, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Leading Rusher

Apparently the Madden curse is about as bad as being the league's leading rusher the previous year. This came from the fouth reference. what do you say? 24.83.3.54 23:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Michael Vick's indictment

Would Michael Vick's legal troubles due to dogfighting be considered a continuation of the Madden Curse? Richiekim 15:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

No, it took place two years after he appeared on the over :p --ShadowJester07 ► Talk 17:52, 19 August 2007 (UTC)