Talk:Colgate University: Difference between revisions

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Maroon News Date

The paper was founded in 1868, per this page and this page. Any change should cite a source at least as credible and authoritative as these. Cheeser1 06:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Colors

Hey all, didn't know there was an actual debate going on about this. Notwithstanding Colgate's new flashy website, I think the colors are properly maroon and white. Otherwise, the article is inconsistent with itself, talking about how gray was added in the 1970s. Just because Colgate's new website declares that the colors are maroon and gray does not make it an objective reality.

Colgate's colors are maroon and gray. HelloAnnyong 14:53, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whoever put that on the website is flat-out wrong. Colgate has never used gray as a primary color - when gray has been used, it has been as trim on the uniforms. We have been maroon and white since at least the 1920's. See "Roar From The Valley", a history of Colgate Football from 1890-1990. Any review of the school's yearbooks from the last 80 years will also confirm this.— Preceding unsigned comment added by FCGibbons (talk • contribs)

Do not edit other entries. And the proof is at Colgate's official site; how much more proof do you need? HelloAnnyong 05:38, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry I edited your entry, which was an accident. However, as I said and noted my sources, the website is wrong. I am the second member of my family to attend Colgate in the last half-century, and neither of us, nor anyone else we communicated with, recall that gray was ever a university color. If it has been changed, no one was told.— Preceding unsigned comment added by FCGibbons (talk • contribs)

I'm sorry but HelloAnnyong is right. Content in Wikipedia articles is meant to be sourced properly. Colgate's official website is an appropriate, credible source. Anecdotal evidence like "I recall..." and "my friends remember..." doesn't meet any reasonable standard of credibility, nor does compelling us to go read a yearbook. If you and a group of other alumni have an issue with what the university states as its official colors, that's an issue for you to take up with the university, not with Wikipedia content that cites the most credible, reliable, and qualified source for this information: the university itself. If the university states that its official colors are maroon and gray, they are maroon and gray. -- 149.43.x.x 05:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See here http://www.colgate.edu/DesktopDefault1.aspx?tabid=493&pgID=1010— Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.43.218.7 (talk)

Heh, thanks. Guess I missed the chance to revert that before.. HelloAnnyong 10:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So what you are saying is that the website, which could concievebly be prepared and/or maintained by one person with limited or no access to research materials, trumps about a century and a half of recorded history in books and other materials based upon first-hand observation? At best, let's agree to disagree.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.79.89.150 (talk • contribs)

Read 149.43.x.x's comment above. Colgate's website is an official source, so it trumps all. HelloAnnyong 16:37, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lawsuits

Can anyone provide credible sources for how many lawsuits are actually pending, and what their status is? As best as I can find, there were three lawsuits, of which the Phi Delta Theta one was thrown out, and the other two - DKE and Beta Theta Pi - are still pending. [1] [2] So why does the article say four? 149.43.126.9 22:32, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to this google cache of a forum post, there are actually two DKE-related lawsuits: an anti-trust complaint (by DKE alumni?) and a discriminatory housing complaint by DKE undergrads. If correct, these lawsuits would make four. Additionally, the poster claims that the Phi Delt lawsuit is under appeal. Anyone have a more reliable source? -- Touchstone

Note that changes have been made to reflect that one of the lawsuits was dismissed recently. 149.43.x.x 23:34, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

News of the dismissal is here. --HelloAnnyong 02:16, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Another revision as well. See here. 149.43.x.x 17:37, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of SA4C and NPOV

Some things need to be addressed here.

First, this article is about Colgate, not SA4C. SA4C is unaffiliated with Colgate, and as such, a link to its website in the External Links is inappropriate.

As to a section about the Greek controversy, I think it's all well and good to have it there, since it is an issue that is important to some. If it is to be included, though, it should have both points of view. Removing the supporters' viewpoint is unfair and violates Wiki's NPOV

Response to above:

SA4C has asked Wikipedia to give us an opinion on being included on the Colgate site under external links. Here is there comment:

"I have re-added the link, which seem a valid addition to the article." Lisa Carter, Wikipedia information team

Therefore, stop deleting the sa4c.com link on the Colgate University page. The discussion about Greek Life is biased enough as it is, without your heavy hand trying to stifle all comment. - Christine Burtt, sa4c Executive Director sa4c@sa4c.com

There are two links in the article already; a third is quite unnecessary.

I would also like to point out that by bringing up SA4C so enthusiastically, you are opening yourself up to information about your group being published on Wikipedia. I can venture a guess that this would result in a NPOV examination of your group, something you may not find favorable. 149.43.x.x 15:48, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, it is absolutely inappropriate for you to continue to remove the disclaimer that SA4C is not associated with the University. It should be clear that this was part of the compromise you are touting as cause for inclusion of the link at all. 149.43.x.x 15:51, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The external links section is for any external links that are relevant to the subject. That includes links to critics and to critical sites. It is not an "official" listing of webpages related to the subject. The only external links in the body of the article should be references to show the source of an assertion that needs backing up. Of course, there should be no confusion as to whether it is an affiliated site or not, but that's easy to ensure. I strongly suggest that both sides make better use of this talk page rather than reverting. And keep it polite please folks, you may be in dispute elsewhere, but let's not bring that into Wikipedia. Thanks -- sannse (talk) 16:04, 12 February 2006 (UTC) (a.k.a. Lisa Carter)[reply]

I agree that sa4c has a place in the external links page. However, I have replaced the suffix "Not University Affiliated" with "a group which opposes the Greek Reorganization, not affiliated with the university." This label accurately describes the groups status and primary purpose as expressed by their website. Furthermore, it is in keeping with Wikipedia practice to label external links to wholly or partially critical groups as such, e.g. the ACLU, Book of Mormon, Greyhound racing, Paul Crouch, etc.). HelloAnnyong argues that the label is redundant because sa4c's opposition is discussed in the "Greek Reorganization" section, but by this argument, the link itself is also redundant.

The SA4C link must be maintained on the main page, in the interest of NPOV. This issue has been brought up before, to the point where admins have been involved, and they ruled on it. HelloAnnyong 19:46, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Picture caption

I edited the picture caption, which incorrectly labeled the photo as being taken at the end of summer. The changing leaf colors are clearly indicative of fall at Colgate. Also, with respect to the source discussion about the photo, it is from the Colgate homepage.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.2.124.195 (talk)

Actually, Summer technically runs until September 21, and the leaves definitely start changing before then. But I agree that it is more of a "Fall" shot.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.196.116.2 (talk)

Black student enrollment

This edit is an interesting one. I'm pretty sure it violates OR; certainly there are a lot of unsourced references in there. I looked around, and it doesn't seem like many other university pages have content on minority issues, so it seems weird that this page would. Based on that, I think the edits should be factored into the text in some form, but otherwise removed. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 19:12, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Greek" vs "fraternities"

For anyone who hasn't been to an US college, "Greek" organization means an organization for people from Greece. If you want this section to be comprehensible, please use "Greek-letter society" (with wikilink) or "fraternity/sorority" as appropriate. --Alvestrand 09:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC) (I'm Norwegian).[reply]

Fine, but "Fraternities" is inaccurate because the issue dealt with both fraternities and sororities. Also, it doesn't get capitalized. I'll fix it. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 12:52, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not so sure this makes sense - it's called "Greek life" explicitly, (e.g. "Director of Greek-Letter Operations" and this). It is not incomprehensible, as far as I know, and it does get capitalized. --Cheeser1 13:26, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's just explicitly stating the topic. If you Wiki for "Greek life," it redirects to "fraternities and sororities." I looked around, and other articles either say "Greek-letter" (here) or just "fraternities and sororities" (here), though the latter points to an article that uses "Greek organizations." I have no problem with the change, as it's a little bit clearer. And "fraternity" isn't a proper noun, so it doesn't need to be capitalized. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 13:34, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

True. It's not going to really matter which we say. I just figured the language used in real life, in this specific case, would be most appropriate (it seems to favor "Greek"). Wikipedia is not monolithic - the terms we use can vary from article to article, according to context. I also believe it would be analogous to writing "people" instead of "men and women" - it simplifies the language involved by avoiding unnecessary dual terms. --Cheeser1 15:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would also point out that "Greek" is an appropriate term here - it is "damn English" and can't be removed on the basis that the word "Greek" has some other meaning. That was, of course, the original justification of the move, and I don't think that's valid. --Cheeser1 16:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

reunion

In case there was any question, the comments about the reunion appear to have been removed. I'd just say that this makes sense because (1) all colleges have reunions - it hardly merits particular mention in this context and (2) it wasn't presented in a very neutral or factual manner. In case there were questions about that. (Note that I did not remove this myself, I'm just making a little note here.) --Cheeser1 07:12, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 ==Colors==
+Hey all, didn't know there was an actual debate going on about this.  Notwithstanding Colgate's new flashy website, I think the colors are properly maroon and white.  Otherwise, the article is inconsistent with itself, talking about how gray was added in the 1970s.  Just because Colgate's new website declares that the colors are maroon and gray does not make it an objective reality.
 Colgate's colors are [http://www.colgate.edu/DesktopDefault1.aspx?tabid=493&pgID=1010 maroon and gray]. [[User:HelloAnnyong|HelloAnnyong]] 14:53, 9 May 2006 (UTC)