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November 16

Electronic Medical Records (EMR)

Is there any governing agency that is mandating that hospitals convert to EMR? If so, what is the date in which this is to happen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stvzgrl (talk • contribs) 02:25, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

You didn't say which country... so here's the UK situation. The UK's National Health Service has the National Programme for IT which includes an "electronic care record for patients" and should link General practitioners and hospitals. After at least 5 years and the departure of several IT partners, the project is still unfinished and the estimated costs have risen 5-fold. The article however does not state the estimated completion date. Astronaut 05:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

You may be interested in reading Electronic medical record and Electronic health record. From the list of problems and the slow rate at which hospitals are moving toward EMR, it seems unlikely that there is any agency that would mandate a change in the near future, regardless of country. 152.16.59.190 (talk) 01:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no such government mandate I know of in the US. The hospital I work for has implemented an EMR system in a policy to (slowly) go paperless, but this was purely a choice by the administration. -- Kesh (talk) 15:29, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Largest unsupported marble dome

What is the the largest unsupported/self supported marble dome in the world? Emporis says the Minnesota State Capitol [1] but also says that the Rhode Island State House is 2nd behind St. Peter's Basilica. [2] For some more contradiction, most Rhode Island sources give a list as St. Peters Basilica, Minnesota State Capitol, Taj Mahal and then the Rhode Island State House, while most Minnesota sources list their State Capitol as the largest. Lets add this source to the mix. [3] Any ideas? Eóin 03:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Let's talk diameters;

• St Peters - 42m (138.8ft) interior
• Minnesota - 18.38m (60ft) interior (27.12m (89ft) exterior) [4]
• Taj Mahal - 17.7m (58ft) interior
• Rhode Island - 15.24m (50ft) interior [5]

So, in summary, the Rhode Island State House article, Brown and Emporis are completely wrong. A couple more thoughts; St Peters was never the largest unsupported dome of any kind - It's slightly smaller than the concrete dome of the Pantheon, which is 1400 years older. Also, none of the four domes mentioned are made entirely of marble. They are all mostly brick and/or steel, with marble facings. FiggyBee 12:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I saw after I edited it that you've been working on the Minnesota State Capitol article. I didn't mean to tread on your toes. :) FiggyBee 12:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem. This clears things up nicely, thanks. -- Eóin (talk) 21:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Psychology question

Halloween is over, so the local stores are putting up their Christmas decorations and music. I've recently read Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal. Mmy question is: Is it normal that I break out into uncontrollable laughter every time I hear the line "holy infant so tender and mild" from Silent Night? --67.185.172.158 06:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

No it isn't. I suggest you visit a qualified physician :-)) Astronaut 07:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

At least you don't think it's "hold the infant, so tender and mild." like everyone else around where I live. Kind of funny to listen to them carolers. Dureo 12:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Good example for our mondegreen article. -- -- JackofOz (talk) 20:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Given the context, I'd suggest that thinking it's funny is normal. Laughing out loud in public places is a violation of social norms, however, and the lack of ability to control this deviant behavior suggests a medicalization of these symptoms might be appropriate. Though IANAP (where P = psychiatrist), you might consider asking one about this issue. Jfarber 14:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Isn't anyone going to remind the original questioner that we can't give medical or dietary advice here on the reference desk? Otherwise, someone's liable to soon recommend some fava beans and a nice chianti...

Atlant 13:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I used to have an mp3 of Soylent Night. I can't remember who did the song but I want to say it was negativland. I'll try to find it. -- Diletante (talk) 01:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe when you were a kid something really funny happened while that line was playing in the background, except you dont remember it, and thats why you find that particular line funny. --Candy-Panda (talk) 03:23, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Come to think of it, "tender and mild" does suggest that the "holy infant" was marinated in a slightly spicy sauce prior to cooking. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 02:54, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

We don't have an article on infantophagia (or infantophagy?) maybe someone with reliable medical sources could create an article in both Wikipedia and Wiktionary about this behaviour associated with the pica disease. I think eating babies and feotuses is practiced by some people who believe it contains rejuvenating substances, I don't know the name of this practice and couldn't find a reference here on Wikipedia. I have some stomach churning pictures of people eating cooked babies in my 'unusual images' folder. I try to keep a scientific interested eye on human practices but sometimes it does get a bit too graphic. Apologies for bringing this joyous thread to a too down to earth level. Keria (talk) 11:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Usenet groups legality

I'm not sure if this should be in the entertainment section, computing or where but here goes... With the large record companies having the clout to shut down music sharing internet sites, busting pirate companies all over the world and even taking individual people to court, is there any reason why the usenet groups have remained relatively untouched and generally out of the debate? For a resource that lets people easily download just about everything it seems low on the 'get rid of it' priority list. Kirk UK 88.144.64.61 09:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

It's possibly the distributed and decentralised nature of usenet which presents the problem. --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:34, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it's more down to the fact that Usenet is simply off most large media companies' radar. They don't understand it, largely because it predates the Web. Also I suspect the amount of file sharing that goes on via Usenet is not huge. These days, newsgroups are increasingly accessed via Google Groups, which I think does not allow for sharing of multimedia files. So in order to download you have to use a news client, which are not always particularly easy to set up. Furthermore, many ISPs don't provide news servers any more.

The same goes for IRC. It's possible to download all sorts of stuff on IRC channels, but most people don't know anything about IRC, and for those who do, it's not really worth the bother. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Disagree; I'm sure it is on the agenda. I think their defence tends to be in adding useless file data, and in getting one out of the n posts which make up a RAR or a ZIP taken down, such that the whole file is useless. YMMV --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Just commenting on Richardrj's reply: there is tons of stuff available on usenet. I'm trying to find a cite somewhere, but I have a figure of "several terabytes per month getting uploaded" stuck in my head. Certainly several dozen (if not hundreds) of DVDs and CDs are posted daily. The mp3 groups are particularly active; I imagine it's a logistics problem and/or lack of knowledge problem that keeps usenet under the radar, not a lack of posts. Matt Deres (talk) 05:23, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I do not know if this practice is done by media companies or by virus/trojan creators, but if you browse the listings for say (it was quite common in one of the Erotica video groups_) you'll find listings for scene releases but the content of the releases does not match the ground name. So they will have an XviD release done by RNS, which is an mp3 group or an XXX DVD release by LOL, which traditionally releases XviD TV rips.--152.2.62.27 13:53, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

GFDL and re-use of article

My questions: ++What else would I have to do? Is there something about linking to the GFDL? ++Where do I have to do this. It seems crazy to list the contributors and the GFDL Text with an article thats of one page only.++Can I just give the URL address of the site from where the article is taken. In such a case is the copyright law violated? If yes, what is the way out?

I'm sure this has been answered before, but I can't track down any answers and I'm having a heck of a time understanding exactly how to comply with the GNU FDL. I've read the license several times but could not get an answer to my question. If I see an Article, which is part of a compilation that is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License and I make it into a derivitive work such as a newsletter or a journal that I then distribute to clients, what must I do?

Thank you all so very much in advance for your help. Nurture 11:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

On the web, licence your instance of the text under the GFDL, and linking to the GFDL, are all you need to do. That could be done by a single line at the foot of the page. In print ... maybe a bit more difficult. You'd satisfy the spirit by saying "This article licenced under the GFDL, details at http:// some web address. I think technically you need to include the whole of the GFDL licence, which is why Creative Commons seems to be more popular - see the cartoon at Commons:Licensing, for instance. A link back to the original article, I think, will satisfy any conditions on the listing of the authors. --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:GFDL Compliance indicates what wikipedia expects, citing four levels of compliance:

• Undetermined or disputed: Either more research is needed, or it is disputed.
• Low/None: Fails in a very significant way, usually by lacking mention of Wikipedia, the GFDL, or both.
• Medium: Makes an effort to comply, usually including mention of Wikipedia and the GFDL. May link to offsite GFDL, and/or lack link to original article.
• High: Approximates our licence; should link to original article[1]; should link to local GFDL[2]; should list original authors and dates[3].

Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks notes, regarding authors, that the copy: must acknowledge the main authors (which some claim can be accomplished with a link back to that article on Wikipedia). I'd tend to agree with that. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:09, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Technically you are supposed to include the entire GFDL with your copy of the article. Sound crazy? It is! The GFDL is not an ideal license for re-using material at all. Imagine trying to use photograph with a GFDL license in a magazine! ---- 24.147.86.187 (talk) 18:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Sport amongst non-humans

Are there any other animals that could be said to play any kind of sport? Not just cats play fighting, but something with some sort of rules/structure based play. I'm thinking like perhaps monkeys might play 'defend the tree' or animals may play something akin to British Bulldogs (or whatever other places call the game). ny156uk 16:43, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Not sure if this[6] meets your criteria, but it seems interesting and relevant. Doubt you're gonna see "sport" in the way most people think of it, but definitely appears that certain animals do exhibit play behavior with some kind of consistent rules/structure. Also, I've seen video of chimps playing soccer, doing karate, playing pac-man, etc., though I doubt that's what you were looking for; monkey see, monkey do after all. I also vaguely remember one of the Steves pointing out in response to some question that his dog follows a set of rules in playing the "tug o' war" game with a rope. -- Azi Like a Fox (talk) 17:22, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article on otters says they play at tobogganing, though other sources claim that they only slide as a means of locomotion. ---- Milkbreath (talk) 18:02, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Ravens are said to enjoy a little sliding on their backs in the snow. This mentions it. I think there was a National Geographic article about it years ago, with photos. -- Corvus cornix (talk) 19:05, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Excellent responses - thanks everyone. I particularly like the idea of ravens doing a form of sledging down hills in the snow! Sounds great. ny156uk (talk) 01:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

You see some interesting competitive behavior in leks. Not sure whether you'd call it "play" though. -- Diletante (talk) 01:16, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

It's really obvious that animals 'play' - play being practice for real activities, mostly (but not entirely) undertaken by the young - who most need the practice. The real question here is whether there are rules to that play.

I think you can see clear rules in the way dogs play. My dogs play at least three distinct games with us and (to a lesser extent) each other - which all seem to have "rules". One, for example, I call "Three inches away and growling". The dog has a toy in it's mouth and will come up to you like they want to play catch or some kind of pulling game - as you reach towards them, they'll stand absolutely still until your hand gets with in three inches of the toy and then quickly pull it away so you can't quite reach it. This behavior gets repeated over and over - usually with some play-growling going on at the same time. Your job is to try to distract the dog with one hand so you can sneak in and grab the toy with the other. This seems to be a game - and it has just one essential rule: The dog isn't allowed to simply move the toy out of reach immediately - (because that's too easy and this is a test of reaction speed). So only when your hand gets within three inches are they allowed to react. Yeah - it's simple, but dogs are simple.

Even rough-and-tumble fighting games have a "rule": You have to execute a 'play bow' before you start in order to indicate that this is "just for fun" and not a real fight. So each dog will lower their head to the ground with their tails up in the air prior to the start of the game. Unless both dogs do this, the game can't start (or, it'll end badly with some actual vicious yelping barks and real biting because someone didn't want to play).

SteveBaker (talk) 15:41, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Seagulls enjoy fighting each other out of boredom and this has a complex set of 'rules' that they all observe, much like a sport has. My budgies like rolling balls around the carpet and their favourite sport of picking toys up off the top of their cage with their beak and seeing how far they can throw them onto the floor although I think their main enjoyment from that is seeing me pick the toys up and put them back so they can do it again! GaryReggae (talk) 16:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

So your budgies have successfully trained you to play "fetch" ? Would you ask them how they did that because I've never been able to get my dogs to do it properly and maybe they could give me some tips.  :-) SteveBaker (talk) 19:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Installing adobe flash player

I can't seem to install flash plater. I downloaded the exe and ran it. After a couple seconds, it said done and hit close but it didn't do anything as far as I can tell and I definitely don't have flash player...

Did you close your browser and re-launch it? ---- 24.147.86.187 (talk) 18:07, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. It just doesn't do anything.

Well, try it again. ---- 24.147.86.187 (talk) 20:11, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I did. Several times. Nothing is happening.

Well, perhaps you could be a little more verbose in explaining what happens, what type of operating system you are using, what browsers you are using, etc. We aren't psychic here ---- 24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:14, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Windows vista with firefox

24, are you talking to yourself again? --- SandyJax (talk) 22:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:CIVIL. The question was originally asked by User:206.169.187.67, whose IP resolves to Time-Warner in Los Angeles. 24 appears to be Comcast Cable in Massachusetts. Corvus cornix (talk) 00:46, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Again? I don't talk to myself. Not on here anyway. And I sign my posts! Also, it would be a little counter-productive to argue with myself over something like this. when I do ask questions they are usually over verbose, not terse! --24.147.86.187 (talk) 05:33, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I have the same trouble with Firefox and XP. You should really be asking this at the Computing desk though. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:53, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that's the way you install Firefox plugins. You should go to a page that has flash content, and Firefox will give you notification that additional plugins are needed. Click install additional plugins, and it'll install Flash by itself. No exe file needed. --antilived^{T | C | G} 09:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I concur with Antilived; at least that's how it works with XP. Firefox just says it wants to update something, you click yes and away it goes in the background - there's no manual downloading and executing of a file by the user. I would ask the OP how he/she knows they don't have the player - are there websites that don't work? When you get to one, Firefox should be asking you if you'd like to update (again). It's not really a stand alone program you launch and use to make Flash animations (that one costs $$$). Matt Deres (talk) 02:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes a reboot is needed. Also visit the flash site in your firefox browser.Rfwoolf (talk) 16:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Pool Noodles

Does anyone know what the exact name for the material pool noodles are made of is?

What, pray, are pool noodles? -- DuncanHill (talk) 19:41, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Why, they are Pool noodles, of course! And they are made of polystyrene foam, according to the article. - Eron^Talk 19:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I had bizarre visions of Olympic-sized pot-noodles! -- DuncanHill (talk) 20:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

That's obviously wrong. That's Styrofoam. Googling seems to indicate that it's EVA foam. ---- Milkbreath (talk) 20:11, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The pot plot thickens: this link suggests that it's polyethylene foam. I'm itching to improve the article, but now I don't know how! - Eron^Talk 20:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm doing it now. EVA is a kind of polyethylene foam, sort of. ---- Milkbreath (talk) 20:23, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

(I can't believe I'm actually discussing this) Here are some more links in support of the polyethylene foam theory: [7] [8] [9]. I read the description of EVA and its uses and it didn't seem quite right to me. - Eron^Talk 20:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

That Thermotec link looks legitimate, but they don't say what their "Supafoam" is, exactly. The other two are ads, which I don't think we can trust to get the science right. You might be right, but we're not there yet. And what do you mean you don't believe? These pool noodles are the greatest thing since the Hula hoop. ---- Milkbreath (talk) 20:47, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I am hoping to find a patent application somewhere that will nail it down. And don't get me wrong; I love the noodle. I'll just never be able to sneer at seemingly pointless pages again. - Eron^Talk 20:52, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I've changed the article to read "polyethylene foam", but I'd still like to nail it down. ---- Milkbreath (talk) 21:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

This is a most edifying thread, and pool noodles seem to have that effect! They were also used to build a fun and flexible model of the double helix, in celebration of "DNA Day". ---Sluzzelin talk 07:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

The exact name is "Funoodle"

Buying a digital camera - UK High Street.

Please don't bin this as I am NOT seeking legal advice - merely purchasing guidance. I bought a digital camera from a well-known Uk Photo Shop that turned out to be well below advertised standards - and returned it per the company's 30 day returns policy. But was told I had invalidated that policy because I had opened the software packet and loaded it onto my PC - but had NOT registered the software - or the camera. I was told that at the instant I opened the packet, I had breached the copyright license and had thus invalidated the whole returns policy. BUT, how could I have otherwise transferred the digipics I took as part of my sampling process when the camera was NOT recognised by my PC unless I loaded the camera-specific software. I eventually resolved the situation to my satisfaction - but only after threatening Trading Standards authority intervention etc., but seriously, when I was offered (and accepted) a replacement, on opening the box, the first words I saw were instructions that I should first load the enclosed software???????????????????????????

Well done for getting satisfaction. I would think this would fall under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 since, as you say, you can only establish the bona fides of the product by opening the package. File under "vendor trying it on". I don't know what case law there is in this area - IINAL - but I know concerns exactly as yours have been raised many times about so-called shrink wrap contracts - e.g. Cory Doctorow - "Shrinkwrap Licenses: An Epidemic of Lawsuits Waiting to Happen" --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

So long as the software was uninstalled when the camera and software disc were returned then there is no problem whatsoever with copyright. The software licence trumps their returns policy. ---- WebHamster 23:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, drivers and accompanying software are commonly publicly available through the manufacturer's website. Using copyrights as an excuse is simply invalid if you're allowed to acquire such software without actually buying the camera. --antilived^{T | C | G} 09:52, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I recently had to return camcorders to both Sony and Panasonic shops and they refunded instantly withou question. Great service.--88.110.2.66 (talk) 12:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

November 17

Colorblindness restrictions

I acknowledge that there are various forms of colorblindness. But could a colorblind person have difficulties distinguishing between a yellow and red traffic light? As well, could it be a potential limitation for future careers such as a graphic designer and pilot? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 01:37, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes (and between red and green), although shape and position of the lights helps. Yes, it is a potential limitation - Colourblind people can get private pilot licenses in most places, providing they can demonstrate they are not unsafe, but military and commercial aviation generally requires accurate colour vision. You can read the ICAO opinion on colourblindness here. FiggyBee (talk) 01:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

As for graphic design, I could imagine someone being a just fine designer despite having red/green issues—color is important for design, but in many cases it is not as important as a good eye for proportion and a good sense of creativity. Every once in awhile they'd probably do something accidentally outrageous to the non-colorblind but that wouldn't be that hard to correct for if they had an editor. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 05:31, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

A LOT depends on which kind of colour blindness you're talking about. You have three types of colour sensor in your eye. Red, Green and Blue. Any or all of those could be faulty - and they could either be 'weak' (ie producing a smaller visual response than they should) or absent altogether. So, for example, you might not be able to see red - or you might see red only weakly. So you could have Red-missing, Red-weak, Green-missing, Green-weak, Blue-missing, Blue-weak or (very rarely) combinations of those (eg Red-weak, Blue-missing). There are fancy names for each variety and combination.

My son has one of the mildest and most common forms of red/green colourblindness, his green sensors are weak, He tells me that he can easily tell the difference between the colours on a traffic light - and not just by their position. But he does have some clear restriction in the area of red/yellow/orange/green discrimination. We only found out that he was colourblind at all because I was nagging him for continually leaving his Nintendo Wii game console in 'standby' (or 'pause') mode instead of turning it off. The console has one of those tricolour LED's that shows Red when it's plugged in but turned off, orange when it's in 'standby' and green when it's fully on. It turns out that the orange and the red LED colours were ALMOST indistinguishable to him. I wondered if he was colourblind and gave him one of the many online colourblindness tests - which he failed (he subsequently had the high school nurse run the same test with a proper calibrated set of tests and got the same result). I think he has a 'weak' green sensor - so colours that are predominantly red but with small amounts of green differentiating them are hard for him to distinguish. Somehow that messes up his red/orange perception in LED light but not for traffic lights. It's a subtle business evidently.

While I've definitely heard that being colour blind is a limiting factor in aviation - and a problem for graphic designers, it depends a HECK of a lot on which kind of colourblindness you have. There are about a dozen variations - some more severe than others. In fact, my son's main passion in life is 3D computer graphics - and he's been turning out excellent work in that field since he was 7 years old. The fact than neither he nor I could tell that he was colour blind for 16 years - half of which were when his major passion was in an area where colour mattered greatly - means that this is not in any way a limiting factor until you come to being able to turn off your Wii! The ICAO aviation test mentioned above requires you to distinguish red, green and white - which you can do with the most common forms of colour blindness because white contains blue - so if you are missing or weak with either red or green, your blue sensor will still tell you which one is white. Similarly, inless you are missing both red and green, you'll easily be able to tell the difference between the red and green lights because one or the other would appear much darker than the other.

Actually, this discovery of his problem has been greatly upsetting to him - because he worries that it might limit him in a future career - and since it is such a very minor limitation, I really wish I'd never tested him. We've tried lots of practical tests on the computer - and aside from the official colourblindness tests (the ones with the numbers made out of coloured dots), and red/orange/green LED's - it's impossible to fool him.

Incidentally, we figured out a way to fix the Wii problem. We taped a sheet of green plastic over the LED. That filters out most of the red light so the LED is almost dark when it's showing red, a dim shade of green when it's showing orange and a bright shade of green when it's on. This is plenty good enough for him to distinguish between the three states.

But - as I said, some people are profoundly colour blind - and that an entirely different matter.

SteveBaker (talk) 15:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi: The men (and some of the women) in my family "suffer" from colorblindness. You should know that the "red" and "green" lights on a stoplight are not pure red and green. They are orange-red and blue-green. That's so we colorblind people can tell the difference. Colorblind people can learn to notice the small differences in colors that others take for granted. I remember as a child getting flipped out by the horizontal traffic lights in downtown Cincinnati, because it was difficult for me then to tell the red and yellow lights apart without the top-bottom difference. I'm pretty sure you can't be a pilot and be colorblind. My grandfather wanted to join the Air Corps during WWII, but was disallowed because of his colorblindness. It was fortunate -- several friends who did join the Air Corps never came back. My grandfather wound up spending the war repairing tanks in England. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:47, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

My grandfather too was shut out of the air force during World War II because they discovered he was red-green colorblind. He ended up driving military trucks. --S.dedalus 02:44, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Must have been before they did serious studies on colorblind people. It turns out that colorblind people make excellent snipers -- disruptive camoflage doesn't work on them. --Carnildo (talk) 06:16, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm colorblind, several optometrists have told me and I've done tests online. They've told me I can't drive a train, and I think they said I can't be a pilot either. I was however a graphic designer, a good one I'd say, and coped just fine. The one job I had I told them I had trouble with certain colours, but in the next job I made a decision not to - and so I had to discretely ask for opinions on certain colour matches. I guess it depends on how it affects you. If you outright can't tell the difference between red and green you might have problems, but for other subtle differences it shouldn't rule you out. On the other hand if you had to get a job mixing colours such as a printer or mixing inks - you would absolutely have to have someone check each mix. But graphic design is a lot more than just using colour, it has to do with visual layout, proportions, sizing, and yes an understanding of which colours work well together and illicit certain responses. Rfwoolf (talk) 16:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Colorblindness might actually be an advantage for someone in an artistic field. For one, a colorblind person has to actually learn facts about color relationships that a normally sighted person can take for granted. This is not unique to colorblind people. I remember reading how when they designed what's now called Quicken Loans Arena, Gordon Gund, the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers who had been blind for 25 years, vetoed a proposed orange-and-blue color scheme because he knew it would be harsh on the eye. Gund may have just remembered that from his youth, but I bet he also read about colors and people's reactions to them. The other advantage to being colorblind is that if you can't tell apart the colors, you know another 10% of men won't be able to tell them apart either. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 17:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I have a colour problem but the other way - I can clearly see the difference between different batches of paint or coloured materials. Nearly every room I walk into looks like a patchwork quilt. Is there a medical term for this?83.148.88.37 (talk) 21:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Re-use of Article

My Questions: ++I have taken an article, of about one page, from the Wikipedia and want to use it for distribution, to my clients as a newsletter (printed copies). I have decided to add the URL Address of the page as a reference at the end of the page. In such a case, am I violating the copyrights law? ++If yes, what is the way out?

Nurture (talk) 10:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Technically, the terms of the GFDL require that the full text be appended to any documents licensed under it. In practice, however, it's generally acceptable to provide a credit tagline at the end of the article. Type in the article name at Special:Cite for a few potential layouts. If the article includes any pictures, it's probably a good idea to add separate credits for them. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 14:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree - nobody is going to bother you for not including the entire text of the GFDL (a couple of pages) with every copy of a one page article - so long as you clearly state where the article came from, that it is licensed under the GFDL and where the GFDL can be found. It's plenty good enough to say something like:

"This article has been reprinted from Wikipedia (www.wikipedia.org) under the terms of the GFDL (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:GFDL)".

SteveBaker (talk) 14:45, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, legally it is not 100% plenty good but practically it is. Legally the GFDL says that no only you have to include the entire text, no matter what size of material you are reproducing, but you have to go through the trouble of indicating which version it is from the article history, a list of its authors, etc. Totally, totally impractical for offline dealings, and IMO it's too bad that Wikipedia didn't dual-license under its own more-free license from the start. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 16:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

There has been significant discussion about adopting the GNU Simplified License at the next licence update (which is allowed by the terms of the GFDL). I've not read the thing in detail, but hopefully by the time it moves on from the draft stage it'll've redacted most of the unwieldy aspects of the current licence. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 17:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

ASK A LAWYER. Jon513 (talk) 13:57, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there a word for fear of flying ladybugs?

I've been scared of them since I was a tiny kid! MalwareSmarts (talk) 16:55, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yahoo Answers says it's Coccinellidaephobia, though given that all 6 ghits for that word point to Yahoo Answers, I'm guessing someone made it up by tacking "phobia" on to the latin word for ladybug. It's really a very specific form of entomophobia. - Eron^Talk 17:06, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Find a computer through it's MAC adress

Is it possible to find a stolen computer when it connects to the internet with its MAC adress? Keria (talk) 18:26, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure only the router it is on sees the MAC address. So yes, you could, but only if the router it connected to is one which you controlled. And even then, the most you could do is say, "Jinkies, someone has connected my computer to the internets!" and maybe deny them internet access. Maybe if you had your router's IP assignment very well set up you could say which internet outlet it was plugged into in your building, but again, that depends on them using it on YOUR specific router. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 20:39, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, MAC is a physical-layer thing and this information won't exist in the IP layer. You can only see MAC address on the local network segment. Also I think it's pretty standard these days that MAC addresses can be easily changed by the end user. Friday (talk) 20:42, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, I think the MAC address is specific to the network adapter, not the computer, and it is very easy to replace this (or just add an extra one). Only the address of the adapter you are using to connect to the network will be visible to the rest of the network. 130.88.79.77 (talk) 13:31, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I have an alternative that might work, though... You could write a programme that automatically starts when the computer is booted, and emails you a copy of the computer's IP address whenever it connects to the internet (of course, this assumes that the computer has not already been stolen, and that its new "owner" will not format or replace the hard disk, or carefully check running programmes or the way any firewalls are set up, or install a new firewall, before connecting to the internet). You could then perform a DoS attack (it seems like this could be illegal depending on where you live), and you might be able to find the approximate location of the computer (like the town it is in). 130.88.79.77 (talk) 13:41, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

need to verify a name of hospital in Africa

I hope that someone can help me to find out if there are Iwosan clinics in Nigeria. Someone told me that there is a clinic in 7 fola coker street Ijebu ode, Ogun state. Will you please verify this place of address? Am seeking a friend thats there and am not sure if is still there and be of that address too.

thanks,

Kenneth Allen Khalln (talk) 22:34, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Whichever country you are currently in probably has an international exchange service - and might even be free. You call this number, they then call directory services in Nigeria and with all 3 of you on the line they get the number for you. Of course this service can only confirm an address, you might not be lucky to GET an address by just giving them a name - they are usually only happy to give out telephone numbers and confirm an address. Then once you have the this information, it will cost you to make the call. Rfwoolf (talk) 16:16, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

November 18

Motorola Razor Cell Phone

Does anyone know how to (and whether or not it is even possible to) change the following "setting" on a Motorola Razor cell phone? In my cell phone's address book, all of the entries are listed as such: (for example) John Smith 18005551212. Is it possible to make the address book entries read as such: John Smith 1-800-555-1212 ... (that is, with the three traditional dashes placed in the telephone number in the correct positions)? It's extremely difficult to read the telephone numbers when all eleven digits are strung together with no separations at all. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:57, 18 November 2007 (UTC))

To my knowledge this is impossible with Motorola's original firmware. There are many alternative free softwares available to replace the firmware for that phone. You might want to read on those and see if any proposes what you want. You will have more hits in GOOGLE if you typer RAZR though. Keria (talk) 13:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC))

Vaudeville Performers

I am looking for information on a vaudeville duo by the name of Jillson and Reed.209.244.188.57 (talk) 01:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

There's a little here. Xn4 02:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Urinal Cakes in the mouth?

What happens when you hold a urinal cake in your mouth? Are they toxic? How does it taste? BradTimlin (talk) 02:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

They most likely have dangurous chemicals and the drinking of ones urin can make you EXTREMLY sick and other would be even worse. It would taste horrible, a good idea would be to drink your own piss then add chemiclas then old warm pee from about 3 days ago. Esskater11 02:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Parts of that answer are slightly urban-mythesque. I would recommend not ingesting a urinal cake, because of the toxic chemicals. However, drinking of urine, while it can be dangerous if you have certain diseases, is not necessarily dangerous (it's not necessarily beneficial either, but that's a different issue). You probably take a greater risk eating chicken in certain dodgy eateries than you do in drinking your own urine. There are millions of people who drink their own urine on a daily basis with no ill effects - see urine therapy. When Morarji Desai became Prime Minister of India in 1977, he initially attracted much more attention from the Western press with his revelation that he was a daily urine drinker, than the fact of his political success at the age of 81. He died at the age of 99. As for the taste issue, maybe a citation would be more helpful than Esskater's assumption that "it would taste horrible". -- JackofOz (talk) 02:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

The urinal cake article says that they're mainly made of either paradichlorobenzene or naphthalene. Both of those are toxic, and considered to possibly cause cancer. MrRedact (talk) 03:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Well thank you for the "answers" but I was thinking about holding a NEW urinal cake in my mouth, not one with piss on it... what chemicals are in it that would make it harmful? BradTimlin (talk) 04:05, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you missed the answer right above yours, but they contain toxic and carcinogenic chemicals. Don't do it. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 05:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

According the articles paradichlorobenzene and naphthalene some symptoms include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, blood in the urine, jaundice, fatigue, lack of appetite, restlessness, pale skin, dizziness, headaches, liver problems, painful irritation of the nose and eyes, skin blotches, lower numbers of red blood cells, cancer, liver and kidney tumors. In short DON'T EAT IT. Jon513 (talk) 13:55, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It would be advisable to not eat anything in a motorway service station, even though urinal cakes might be the best option.

Song in dell comerical

In the Dell comerrical where the guy is walking in that robot suit. What is that songs name. Sorry for being vauge. Esskater11 02:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

The W. A. N. D. by The Flaming Lips [10] --Melburnian (talk) 03:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

career in extraterrestrial/paranormal studies

how would i go about finding a career in studying/researching aliens or other paranormal things? what kind of degree would i need? who would i work for?

Though it would be fun to be a professional ufologist, most people who study UFOs do so as a hobby. There aren't any real careers in ufology, outside of writing books or giving lectures on the subject. Zagalejo^^^ 06:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Here's an article from CUFOS that might be of interest: [11]. Zagalejo^^^ 06:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

What with the dearth of evidence for the "paranormal", etc., chances are that you'd be working for a charlatan or nutball. -- Hoary (talk) 07:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

There is extremely little professional parapsychology research going on any more, and what little there is is on the decline, but it does still exist. See Parapsychology#Parapsychology today and Rhine Research Center. Getting a PhD in psychology might help. MrRedact (talk) 14:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

The FBI has a very small number of jobs available in the extraterrestrial/paranormal field, according to a documentary I once saw called The X-Files. MrRedact (talk) 16:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

My advice about starting a career of this sort would be to go and read some Isaac Asimov books on the topic and then reappraise your position. Richard Avery (talk) 09:21, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

There is the Koestler Parapsychology Unit at the University of Edinburgh. DuncanHill (talk) 09:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

The trouble is that these subjects have been researched and found to be simply untrue. Hence we know the answer and there is clearly no need for further research. What research remains is being done by the nut-jobs - so funding is going to be tough to find - and jobs even tougher. I strongly recommend getting some serious scientific training and researching some of the utterly bizarre, mind-twisting things that are really happening in our universe - once you get past the superficial stuff, UFO's and 'paranormal' phenomena would not be as weird. You certainly could get a job researching 15 dimensional space or quantum computers that can do an infinite number of calculations in parallel or the prospects for making tiny robots that are small enough to enter your bloodstream and repair cells or materials that are strong enough to make an elevator that would take you up to geostationary orbits - which is hanging from literally nothing! There are plenty of really interesting subjects to study that will actually give your contribution meaning for the future of humanity - rather than flushing your life down the toilet doing 'junk science'. SteveBaker (talk) 17:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Not true Steve. There are a lot of charlatans, and I am in no way claiming that there is such a things as 'the paranormal', but to say "these subjects have been researched and found to be simply untrue" when the question asked "how would i go about finding a career in studying/researching aliens or other paranormal things? what kind of degree would i need? who would i work for?" seems rather slapdash. Aliens have not been researched and found to be untrue, but plausible explanations that do not involve aliens have been found for most terrestrial 'alien' sightings. Aliens themselves remain rather likely, although it has not been possible to do much research into actual aliens as we haven't found any yet (and may not).

The question asker wanted to know what degree would be useful in researching paranormal things, and I would think it would depend on what paranormal things you wanted to research, and what aspect of them you wanted to look into. If you're interested in a particular area, get a degree in a reputable subject that would give you insight, become a research scientist and see if you can convince someone to fund you to research the area. Some people would be happy to fund some odd things out of curiosity, some would fund some things to see them disproved, some in the hopes they would be proved. Or you could end up poor lab-less :) If you're more interested in the general paranormal 'experience' and the way these things spread and are discussed (including those who believe, and those like Steve above), perhaps an anthropology degree would be best. That would probably increase the chances that you'd get paid to research and write about these things, although you'd be looking with a very different perspective.

I find these things fascinating, and I'm afraid I'm a Fortean. If you tell me you saw the ghost of your dead mother and she made you a pancake, I'll be terribly interested. I probably won't believe your interpretation, but I'll certainly file it away as something that happened, and investigate the smell of fried batter that lingers in your room... Skittle (talk) 23:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

You could go for a career in astrobiology (also called exobiology) but although you would be researching "aliens" you wouldn't be studying anything "paranormal". A degree in astronomy or biology would be a good start for that type of career. Keria (talk) 11:37, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Latina and Polynesian Porn sites

Hi I'm just wondering if anyone here knows of any good sites with latina and polynesian chicas? Lesbian would be best but if not hardcore porn. Thanks in advance LocoLatino (talk) 07:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Porn sites seem to be very energetic in advertising their existence, and there seem to be plenty of bulletin boards devoted to this uplifting subject. You're an active contributor to "talk" here; would you care to contribute to an article at some time? -- Hoary (talk) 07:39, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

You asked this question before, it can be found in the archives, specifically Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 November 9#Latina and Polynesian Porn sites. Rockpocket 07:43, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

semiconductor

Band diagram of a p⁺n junction. The band bending is a result of the positioning of the Fermi levels in the p⁺ and n sides.

i have read the book of the semiconductor and found the probleme with instrinsic fermi energy level in the topics of banding of energy band. as i read it is found that the fermi energy level is constant for a semiconductor and if the semiconductor isnot dopped uniformely,making dopped gradient along the length,the bending effect of energy band is found eg: the cb,vb and fermi energy level get slope and as i said that the fermi energy level is same so it doesnot get slope but the istrinsic fermi energy level is get slope

but i m confused what the actual physical meaning of the instrinsic fermi energy level????

Are you referring to this image? I'm no expert, but I think it is misleading. The intrinsic Fermi level does not change. The diagram is meant only to illustrate the change in the positions of the conduction and valence bands relative to the device level, and the intrinsic level has to remain between them. It would be better if the device level sloped and the other three lines were straight across. You should ask this on the Science desk. --Milkbreath (talk) 17:33, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

No, the diagram is not misleading. The point is that the Fermi level is always flat within any set of conductive materials in electrical contact, once equilibrium has been reached. If at any moment the Fermi level is not flat, electrons will flow until it is. The Fermi level is essentially the dividing line between filled and unfilled electronic states, and if electrons have a higher energy in one material, they will flow to an available lower-energy state elsewhere, thereby increasing the electrostatic potential in that region, until the Fermi level is flat. This is completely analogous to a water surface. If two or more containers of water are connected with hoses, water will flow between them until the water level is the same in all the containers. In a given semiconductor material, the Fermi level has an essentially fixed position (determined by the doping) relative to the valence and conduction bands, so after the Fermi level has become straight, the valence and conduction bands will be bent. --mglg_(talk) 01:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, now I'm confused too, I guess. The diagram shows two Fermi levels, one for the device and one for the intrinsic semiconductor material. The first is straight and the second is not. "Intrinsic" means "undoped", so that line should be at the same level on both sides, because both sides are silicon. Also, this is not conductive materials in electrical contact, it is a pn junction. Electron and hole migration ceases when a depletion region forms, and that region is in equilibrium, not the two materials. Further, the highest available energy level (Fermi level) of an electron in the valence band or conduction band will not be affected by doping, what is affected is the balance between carriers, which will move the device line to express a sort of average level.

I really wish he'd asked this on the Science desk. I'm a little over my head, but I'll stand in for the questioner until I understand this myself. --Milkbreath (talk) 03:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• A p-n junction is an interface between two materials – p-doped silicon and n-doped silicon – in direct contact (including electrical contact).
• The depletion region is established by the charge-carrier flow that I mentioned. The displacement of charges results in electric fields, which produce the band bending and the flat Fermi level. When electron and hole migration ceases, it does so precisely because the Fermi level has become flat, so that no direction is "downhill" any longer.

Maybe some background will help: In the absence of doping, there are no states in the band gap, so there is the same number of holes in the valence band as there are (thermally excited) electrons in the conduction band. This is described by a Boltzmann distribution around an average energy in the middle of the band gap. This average energy defines what the diagram calls the "intrinsic Fermi level". If you add some dopant atoms (with one electron "too much", in the case of n-doping), there will be more electrons than holes around. This will correspond to a higher average energy in the Boltzmann distribution (an actual Fermi level, which the diagram calls "device Fermi level", that lies closer to the conduction band). Similarly, p-doping will lower the (device) Fermi level, moving it closer to the valence band. If an n-doped region is in electrical contact with a p-doped region, the true (device) Fermi level has to be flat, because otherwise charge carriers would move until it became flat. This will cause the other bands to bend. That all the energy levels in the materials far from the junction on either side have moved up or down simply means that these regions are at different electrical potential (relative to some common external reference). If you are familiar with chemistry or thermodynamics, the Fermi level is essentially a chemical potential for electrons. --mglg_(talk) 04:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm familiar with electronics, or used to be. Or thought I was until I saw all this about a quantum approach to semiconductor theory. The higher-energy electrons on the n side cannot flow to the p side because of the space charge at the junction barrier. And the diagram seems to show that electrons in the conduction band, for instance, are at a higher energy on the p side than on the n side; how can that be? I'm using the technique here of asking stupid questions until the other guy figures out what it is I don't know that I can't tell him I don't know because I don't know it. But let's try returning to the original question: "What the actual physical meaning of the instrinsic fermi energy level?" --Milkbreath (talk) 11:42, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Do paypal provide service for Bangladeshi users ?

I'm a Bangladeshi resident . I've started signing up in paypal but i did'nt find Bangladesh in their country/region list ? Is it possible for me to enjoy the service of paypal ?

It seems that Bangladesh is not one of Paypal's "supported countries". I noticed that a few other Muslim countries (Pakistan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Egypt, Iran, United Arab Emirates) are not "supported", or served, by Paypal, nor are some poorer countries in the Americas (Haiti, Dominican Republic) or some African countries (Nigeria, Ghana, Congo-Brazzaville, Zimbabwe). Possibly, legal or financial infrastructures in those countries would make it difficult for Paypal to offer its services in those countries, or U.S. government restrictions on money transfers to or from certain countries may stand in the way. Marco polo (talk) 02:35, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Paypal also relies upon all sorts of electronic banking services that may simply not exist in those places. SteveBaker (talk) 17:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Extras in Films and Lip Readers

I've just been watching a film with a restaurant scene. You can clearly see about 3 groups of extras in the background talking (though obviously the voices are not heard) and it got me thinking... What do they talk about and can lip-readers see what they are saying? I expect they don't talk based on any sort of script, so plausibly they might be discussing roles they've done in other film or just day-to-day things. Anyways seeing as A) I cannot lip read and B) I don't know anyone who has been in a film. I wondered if anybody knows, or indeed if they do lip-read, does watch the extras. I should note that this is just because I was watching a film i've seen about a million times, normally i watch the main characters!! ny156uk (talk) 12:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Not so sure about films, but in plays the characters having unheard conversations in the background are discouraged from having meaningful conversation because they might get involved and miss a cue, so it is common to just repeat a phrase (softly) such as "Bread and butter" while appearing to show facial expressions consistent with a conversation. Edison (talk) 14:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Edison - wow, that is interesting. I would have never known that. But, yes, it does make a great deal of sense. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC))

In film they can talk about anything although it's important that they don't actually make a noise. In any professional production (compare to an unprofessional production where the director might not be very experienced) the extras are supposed to be absolutely silent so that the actors' voices can be recorded clearly. This gives the editor the chance to put background noise in later - and whatever noise might have been picked up by an extra might contaminate the added background sound in an unideal way. Some of the time the extras are saying nonsense lines like "I have no dialogue" - but other times if they can hear eachother they may even have proper conversations. I'm no expert on lip reading but I would guess that you would need to clearly see the lips and facial expressions, and, you'd need to watch the movement for a couple of seconds to get some idea of the sentence structure to make out what the person is saying - and in a film it's rare to clearly see an extra speaking for a long time where you would get an opportunity to make out what they're saying -- but either way it's probably nonsense. Rfwoolf (talk) 15:18, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

See also Walla. 84.65.107.232 (talk) 15:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

According to the lip reading article, it says "...Other difficult scenarios in which to speechread include: lack of a clear view of the speaker's lips. This includes obstructions such as moustaches or hands in front of the mouth; the speaker's head turned aside or away; bright light source such as a window behind the speaker.". It also mentions that to lip read you normally rely on a lot more than just the lips, such as the tongue, facial expression and movement, gestures, as well as context, and that only about 30-40% of english speech is deciferable from lips alone.

So my guess is that lip readers would have a hard time deciphering what extras are saying - not without a bit of sound or context etc Rfwoolf (talk) 15:26, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

There's a term for what they say in the background, and I'm pretty sure we have an article on it, but I can't remember what it is at all. There are some specific nonsense phrases which are often used because they sound like "background chatter". --24.147.86.187 (talk) 17:03, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

See walla. I always preferred rhubarb. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 17:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb. Custard! FiggyBee (talk) 17:45, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Rhubarb#Other_uses_of_the_word. Corvus cornix (talk) 22:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

"natter grommish" – I think I got that from David Gerrold's book on the making of The Trouble With Tribbles. —Tamfang (talk) 22:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

This probably also applies to newsreaders on TV. Many news shows start out with 2 people chatting, and when the lights go on they turn to face the cameras and start the show. At the end, they do their goodbyes to the viewers, then resume their chat. I always wonder whether they pick up where they left off before ("As I was saying before we were rudely interrupted by this damn news broadcast, ...."), or start a new conversation, or whether they're just saying "rhubarb" etc. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:55, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

BONSOR

Bonsor name is extremely rare in India. In UK there are many listed in Wikipedia, including that of Sir Nicolas Cosmos Bonsor, the fourth Baronet. Am interested to trace my ancestary,and therefore request e-mail/ address of Sir Bonsor to enable me to get in touch with him. Further,i would like to know how i can insert my write up in the Wikipedia. Thanks.

Surinder Bonsor, India. 59.95.24.213 (talk) 13:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

A quick search on google doesn't turn up a site/email that is forthcoming. For individuals of this nature you may be best writing to the houses of parliament in the UK, or the MP that is now in one of the constituencies he represented (namely Angela Watkinson). ny156uk (talk) 14:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Some genealogical info is on thepeerage.com and he can be contacted via his website. 84.65.107.232 (talk) 15:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, an article on him is at Nicholas Bonsor. Feel free to edit this, but please remember to keep to the rules/guidelines at Biographies of living persons and cite reliable sources of your information. Foxhill (talk)

A question concerning "Universal Pictures Lorimars" 1984 production of "The Last Starfighter".

Are there plans for creating a sequel to this movie? The door for a sequel was left open by allowing the bad guy, "Xur", to escape in the final moments of the movie. Thank you,

Brian Long

This is probably a question that's impossible for us to answer on the Reference Desk unless there's an employee of Universal who contributes. Even then he/she may not be able to answer due to confidentiality issues. My gut instinct says unlikely, the film is very much a product of it's time and it's nearly 25 years old - a remake is a more likely idea. Exxolon (talk) 18:08, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Gold In Desert

Could gold only be found in river and creek beds? Because a picture that showed a large gold nugget described it as being discovered in the southern California desert, would that have to be found near or in a river or creek, not the actual desert?

See gold prospecting. Gold is found in seams in rocks, but some gets washed out with erosion and becomes concentrated in river beds.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

See Gold#Production and daughter articles Gold prospecting, Gold mining, and Gold extraction. Exxolon (talk) 18:03, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

So it wouldn't be found beneath the desert floor/sand? The big rock was probably found in the pictures that was discovered in the southern California desert was probably found in a riverbed or creek, not the actual desert? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.120.225.37 (talk) 14:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• High-tech gold mines need not necessarily have anything to do with rivers. Our Open-pit mining article lists several gold mines around the world where all the gold is found by mechanical or chemical processes. In fact, in these types of mines water can often be more of a nuisance than an aid. --M@rēino 16:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Even if it were true that gold was only ever deposited in river and creek beds, a lump of gold will sit around unchanged for millions of years. So a river that flowed through lush vegetation in southern California a few million years ago, eroding mountains and dumping gold into it's bed might well have dried up and turned into desert today. The gold, however, would remain right there where the river used to flow. Hence, it should come as no surprise that gold shows up in lots of places where there is no modern river. However, it's probably a lot easier for a prospector to recover gold from a river that's flowing right now than it is to trek around at random digging holes and looking for the stuff out in the desert...which would explain the idea that rivers are good places to look. SteveBaker (talk) 17:44, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Metrodome Field

In the Metrodome, the Gophers and Vikings play on back to back days. They change the paint in the endzone and midfield. How do they get the gopher's paint off within 12 hours to get the Vikings paint down instead?

Since the Metrodome uses an artificial surface, they just replace the sections with the logos. They're not repainting anything. — Lomn 19:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Tallest building in Flagstaff

What is the tallest building in Flagstaff? Æetlr Creejl 19:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Sechrist Residence Hall, with 8 floors,

Also Sechrist Hall, with 8 floors at Northern Arizona Universtiy.

DarkZorro 19:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Stripes

How do they get those broad, faint stripes across a soccer pitch, a bit like the yard lines in American football? --Milkbreath (talk) 20:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

If you mean the green-on-green stripes, they occur when you mow the lawn in different directions, causing the grass to be bent in different directions. I believe professional groundskeepers use special mowers for this, but it is very low-tech. Google "stripe mowing" and you'll find a bunch on that. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Its not really even that special of equipment. Its just a roller on the back of the lawn mower that pushes the grass in one direction or another. They use them in Baseball alot and make some pretty intricate designs in the grass.

A couple months ago I saw a book that showed how to make designs in your lawn with similar techniques. Don't remember the name of the book but I'm pretty sure a little hunting around on Amazon would turn it up. Dismas|^(talk) 11:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it's done with a cylinder mower (one with a rotating cylinder of blades that push the grass in the direction the mower is being pushed. The groundsman mows across the pitch to the other side then turns round and does the next strip, pushing the grass in the other direction in the process. In the old days, most mowers were of this type but more recently, rotary mowers have become more common, these just have a rotating propellor type blade underneath which doesn't really make any pattern. GaryReggae (talk) 12:55, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Buying watermelons

Is there a key to choosing ripe/good watermelons in stores? I've heard that if one taps/slaps the watermelon and if it makes a certain sounds, then one can know that it is ripe. Is this true? Acceptable (talk) 22:28, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I've been taught that if it sounds hollow inside it's a good one. --antilived^{T | C | G} 23:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

After living for a while in southern europe where watermelons were very common during the summer the key is to buy them from where the seller will slice into the melon to show you that the flesh is ripe to within 1/2 cm. of the skin. This rarely failed but I admit is of little use in modern supermarkets. I have witnessed lots of learned tapping and slapping of watermelons but have not yet found that there is a sure and certain method to ensure sweetness from maturity. The knowledge of the vendor is the best guide. Richard Avery (talk) 09:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

My wife (who is French and must therefore know everything there is to know about food) claims that pushing her thumbs against the ends of the melon provides the necessary information (although precisely how remains a mystery to a mere Brit like me). Personally, I want a double-blind placebo study of her abilities because I'm not convinced they produce results that are better than chance. SteveBaker (talk) 17:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I hope for your sake Steve that she doesn't read that! DuncanHill (talk) 17:39, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

That's an interresting technique. I thought it was "the darker the better" but I wish I could see a proper scientific investigaion into the matter. Keria (talk) 20:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't hit the fruit; grocers hate that. The watermelon should should look good - no cracks, blemishes, mushy bits, etc. It should seem rather heavy for its size (lightness implies less water, which could indicate either lack of ripeness, or a poorly formed fruit). Turn the melon over until you find that pale patch where the fruit was on the ground - unripe melons will have a very pale, whitish, patch; ripe melons will have a yellowish patch. Since it had no exposure to the sun, the only way it could take on colour was if the fruit was completely ripe - which is what you want! Up next for Matt, peace in the Middle East... Matt Deres (talk) 02:17, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

November 19

What do South Asian peasantry wear to protect themselves from the sun?

In Southeast Asia the rural folk wear conical hats, so surely South Asians also have protection?

lots of issues | leave me a message 05:12, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by "South Asain"? Indians? "South Central Asia" like the middle-east?

PS: It's better if you use internal links like [[User:Lotsofissues|lots of issues]] (Result: lots of issues) than external links like you're doing. --antilived^{T | C | G} 08:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Modest South Asian women (not necessarily peasants) wear their dupatta so that it covers their hair. If you click on the article, you'll see that the woman in the right of the top photo is using hers as a sunshade. --M@rēino 21:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
• Oh, I forgot! In some situations, it's perfectly acceptable for a man to soak a turban in cold water, which protects him against the sun's heat (although not so much against harsh sunlight). --M@rēino 21:15, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

How does one fart on command?

How does one fart on command? What preparation is reguried? Thank you for your help in this matter. Weasly (talk) 10:36, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

This requires considerable practice and constant vigilance on the part of the practicant. The first stage is the obtaining of the gaseous emission. Usually this amounts to a slow accumulation of small amounts until it is felt (both literally and metaphorically) that sufficient is available when required. However, this brings us to a quite difficult part of the practice, the emitting of small amounts to retain a reasonable state of digestive comfort but not so much as to deplete the available store. This will normally be held in the appropriate receptacle known as the (..........) insert name as required. On the command being received the participant should be in a position to oblige. However, under no circumstances should the command be obeyed with any force or vigour. The reasons for this are firstly that the deposit of gas may be depleted too quickly and the participant will be unable to repeat the order if required and secondly there may be laundry implications.

I hope that helps. Richard Avery (talk) 11:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

See Flatulist. Le Pétomane, a famous French flatulist, gave himself an enema everyday to ensure that there were no unpleasant smells, but then his ability was unusual, in that he could fart indefinitely (he could take in air through the anus, rather than having to rely on the digestive system to produce the gases). Professional flatulence was once a very profitable business (Le Pétomane was paid more than almost any other celebrity, while Roland the Farter was given a 30 acre manor in exchange for farting once a year at Christmas!) Laïka 13:39, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

You can do it by "inhaling" so to speak into, the intestines from the outside. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.191.102.55 (talk) 18:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Rotary vs foil razors?

Due to sensitive skin and labourious nature of manual shaving, I'm thinking of giving electric razors a try. Would get a chargable and washable razor. If they could shave other areas such as armpit, nads etc that would be an added bonus. Did a little research about them. However, a few questions remain and a new questions have popped up. First about foil razors: Are the ones with 2 or 3 foils better than the one with 1 foil?. Do the foils last longer than rotary cutters?. Do they have a larger shaving surface than rotary razors?.

and about the rotary razors: do they offer a better shave than foils? are they better for people who get razor bumps?

about both: what to look for when choosing one? and what to avoid? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.46.26 (talk) 14:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I've found (rotary) electric shavers much more irritating than manual shaving with a safety. FiggyBee (talk) 22:43, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't get as good a shave from a rotary than from a safety (although I don't shave at all at the moment. It's important to keep up on the maintenance on a rotary, or the performance is quite less than optimal. Steewi (talk) 05:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Wireless Earphones

How does wireless earphones work? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.120.225.37 (talk) 14:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Fundamentally, it's a transmitter/receiver pair. The precise technology can vary, but solutions are found in the same frequency bands as cordless phones and other consumer wireless devices. Bluetooth, for instance, runs around 2.4 GHz, and is commonly used by newer wireless headsets. — Lomn 14:32, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Bluetooth is a bit more subtle than just a transmitter/receiver pair - the headset has to negotiate with the phone (or whatever) to agree on how they will communicate. Bluetooth is a digital network protocol. This is what allows (for example) 10 people crammed together in an elevator to all use their headsets at once without interfering with each other. SteveBaker (talk) 17:32, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Measure of Effects of Alcoholic beverages

Is there a boundary for Alcoholic beverages effects(immediate effect) which lower than that percent,the harms and effects will be wiped out?Flakture (talk) 14:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not known. Several recent studies have suggested that moderate consumption of alcohol (on the order of 1 drink per day) may actually reduce a person's risk of certain diseases (including heart disease). It may be a balancing question—is there a tradeoff between slightly increased liver toxicity and decreased risk of cardiovascular illness?

Also worth noting is that a small amount of ethanol is present naturally in the body, produced by various mechanisms: [12]. Is this endogenous alcohol detrimental? Would we be better or worse off if it weren't present? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:06, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean the immediate effects or the effects of long-term consumption? Rmhermen (talk) 16:22, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually I mean immediate effects.Flakture (talk) 13:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Is this site okay to use...?

Someone Is Missing -

If someone you know comes up missing... This website will supply you with the following; A web address to use immediately Web space, and our abilities for as long as you need Taxa (talk) 16:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Are you asking a question, or placing an advertisement? If you're doing the latter, you're pretty foolish; this page will be archived in a few days and generate very little traffic thereafter. --M@rēino 16:33, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I think they're either a) asking if the site is legit, and will do what it says rather than run off with any info you give them or b) asking if it's okay to use the site (as a reference?) in Wikipedia. 130.88.140.7 (talk) 16:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the advertisement stuff. That said, I'm very skeptical of the "we'll be a household name and deter would-be kidnappers!" claptrap. They won't, it won't, and there are far more visible forms of media already available (namely, local TV news). I suppose that every little thing might help in a missing-persons case, but this looks like a waste of time. — Lomn 16:40, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

From first impressions, the fact that it is a very amateurish looking website rings my internal alarm bells. Also reading the terms and conditions on the site, a full privacy policy is mentioned in passing but I can't seem to find one anywhere in the domain. The site doesn't seem to have any formal links/agreements with any Law Enforcement agencies and seems to me to be run purely by a group of volunteers. The 'List a Person' page/form is also not secure. There are other, more official sites such as theyaremissed.org (USA), missingpeople.org.uk (UK) (and many others) which are run by charities or law enforcement agencies that do this kind of thing a lot better. (in my opinion). 81.76.37.180 (talk) 17:03, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems unlikely that members of the public are going to go there on a regular basis to see if anyone they know the whereabouts of just happens to be listed missing. If a lost child shows up needing help - I trust that one's first call would be to 911 - not to go look at some web site just on the offchance of seeing who they belong to! That being the case, it's hard to imagine that this is going to be of much use. On the other hand, desperate parents, looking for anything they can possibly do to locate a lost child will get some comfort from the feeling that they did one more thing with a chance of helping in the search - so I suppose it's not a complete waste. I'm skeptical that the site managed to locate 3 missing persons - I suspect that what they are really saying is that three missing persons on their site have been located (but not because of their publicity perhaps). At worst, this site may be merely well-meaning but ineffective - at best, if it helps in locating just one person then it's more than worth all of the effort to maintain it. It's hard to imagine any kind of scam that might be involved. SteveBaker (talk) 17:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

For 911, of course, read "their local emergency telephone number". Funny, I'd gotten the impression Steve was British (their number would be 999 or 112). --Anon, edited 18:08 UTC, Nov. 19.

(I am British - but I live in Texas - and the habit of saying 911 is hard to break! Fortunately, most non-Americans know what 911 is.) SteveBaker (talk) 18:33, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Several people already mentioned holes in this site. If you ever need to coordinate the search for a missing person. Get together with media and law enforcement officials and get out an official Amber Alert if you're in the United States and the missing person is a kid. People are more likely to watch a website if it is part of an official missing persons organization. Small organizations won't do much to boost visibility. - Mgm|^(talk) 20:57, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Jayhawk, Dolphin team colors

I was curious about the team colors for the Jayhawks after seeing their football game highlights, and it brought to my mind a similar question for the NFL's Miami Dolphins. The jayhawks' page says blue and red, but is it a certain shade of blue? Because it almost looks closer to purple at times, by what I remember of their basketball games. other times, it's more clearly blue. It's a *very* deep Royal, anyway; don't know what you'd call it. The settings were not changed on the TV's contrast, brightness, etc. This brought to my mind a similar question for the Dolphins. At times, I recall their non-white uniforms look bluer, and at other times greener. The blue is clearly Aqua like your site lists (and like the blue of the dolphin on their helmet), but the other looked kind of washed out, meaning the couple times I saw that on TV, it might have been an effect from washing that made them look a little different.4.68.248.130 (talk) 16:28, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Teams tend to have fairly specific (and sometimes trademarked) colors used. The St. Louis Rams, for instance, moved from blue and yellow to "New Century Gold" and "Millennium Blue" when they changed color schemes around 2000. There's probably a specific Pantone designation for each of those. On the other hand, there are cases like the Tennessee Volunteers where, despite being readily identified by "orange", at least three different shades of orange have been on a uniform at once.[13] — Lomn 16:52, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I've always believed that teams change their colours regularly in order to improve sales of replica uniforms to their fans - so this may be a deliberate change, introduced to make every fan want to buy "this season's" uniforms. But it's also possible that the more subtle differences you are seeing are due to different stadium lighting (day versus night games, one football field versus another) - or in the automatic or manual adjustments made during TV production at the whim of producers and cameramen - or even whether you are watching TV with the room lights on or off. Colour perception is a complicated matter and it's really easily messed up. So if even if it was something as subtle as the colour of the grass beind different in the various cases, you might be subject to the Same color illusion for example. SteveBaker (talk) 17:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Top of a tall tower

Is there a name/word/article given to the act of bottleing up ones emotions for years before going to the top of something tall and starting to shoot randomly with a rifle. An/or what people should do instead, if not Ill let you know... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.191.136.3 (talk) 17:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

This has happened very few times in recent history - so it's unlikely there is a clear, simple name for it - we certainly have articles about some (if not all) of the times it's happened. (Charles Whitman, the Beltway sniper attacks and of course the John F. Kennedy assassination come to mind). In terms of what a deranged person might do instead - there are plenty of options that don't involve killing a bunch of innocent people and then end up (typically) with a slow and painful death (or a lifetime in jail) after being gunned down by police. Psychotherapy would probably be the most obvious (and perhaps, extreme) alternative - but there are many others. Simply yelling and screaming from a suitably high (and hopefully deserted) place would probably be just as effective at getting rid of pent up rage and frustration - taking up adrenaline-depleting extreme sports might be another. After throwing a car violently around an autocross track several times, one feels an inner calmness that's hard to beat - it's a cheap and fairly safe sport. SteveBaker (talk) 18:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I would recommend moderate-intensity aerobic exercise as a way of releasing tension. I'm not sure of a word for bottling up one's emotions, but the apathetic free feeling beforehand can be described as fey. -- _{Escape Artist Swyer} ^{Talk to me} _{Articles touched by my noodly appendage} 18:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Modern popular parlance would term this type of activity as going postal, the formal name for it in some circles is a killing spree or running amok. 81.76.37.180 (talk) 19:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Psychotic break?--droptone (talk) 20:38, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It is, of course, a subset of a nervous breakdown Steewi (talk) 05:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Mr. and Mrs. Jane Doe

Amanda Gamble writes that a couple must always be referred to under the man's name if they are to be called Mr. and Mrs., and that "Mrs. Jane Doe" is only used for divorced women. Do progressive and feminist etiquetticians agree with this? Similarly, do they allow a man to call himself "Mr. Jane Doe" if he is less famous than his wife? Also, do same-sex couples become "Mr. and Mr." and "Mrs. and Mrs.", or "Messrs." and "Mdms."? NeonMerlin 23:12, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard of a Mr. Jane Doe style but the rest sounds the right. With people concerned with feminist etiquette (e.g. my wife) you use Ms. Jane Doe even if they are married. I'm not sure that this is widely followed, though, but if my wife insists on it being proper etiquette it probably is, though I'm usually mystified by such customs and somehow grew up ignorant of them. No clue about same-sex couples—the rules of etiquette are, as you have no doubt noted, extremely heteronormal and favor the old idea of a woman as a man's property, so applying it to homosexual relationships is going to somewhat upend the whole project in my view. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 23:34, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it's outdated and undoubtedly sexist - but the idea is that the woman "takes the mans name" - and that includes both first and second name in this case. So "Mr & Mrs John Doe" is correct. It is presumed that if the woman doesn NOT wish to take her husbands name then it'll be "Mr John Doe & Mrs Jane Throatwarbler-Mangrove". The option of the man taking his wifes name is presumably also possible - but I've never heard of it happening. SteveBaker (talk) 02:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

That sounds a little odd Steve - In my experience not many women call themselves Mrs <Maiden name>. FiggyBee (talk) 03:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, probably Ms <Maiden name> - but that doesn't really change what I was saying. SteveBaker (talk) 14:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm old enough to remember my mother being referred to as "Mrs (Dad's given name) (Dad's surname)". It still happens in very formal circumstances like the awarding of British Honours. If the famous writer Jane Smith is awarded an honour, and she's married to Norman Nonentity, her name will appear in the Honours List as "Mrs Norman Nonentity (Jane Smith)". The idea of Mrs being attached to a wife's given name (Jane) is relatively recent, but is now almost universal, and only the most abject pedants would take exception to it. That's where "Mrs" is used at all, which is increasingly uncommon - "Ms" is far more common these days, for married and unmarried women alike, and for good reasons imo. Or, indeed, no title at all. The "Mr Jane Doe" style is merely jocular; I suppose the otherwise non-notable Larry Fortensky might have been referred to occasionally as "Mr Elizabeth Taylor" after someone asked "Larry who?", but his actual name was always (Mr) Larry Fortensky.

On the same-sex thing, and again it would only apply in very formal circumstances, I guess if Sir Elton John was invited to a Buckingham Palace garden party and partners were also invited, the invitation would be addressed to "Sir Elton John and Mr David Furnish". I'm sure there would be cases where one same-sex married person has changed their surname to their partner's, or where they've both adopted the same different surname (eg. Barry Blue married Robert Red and they become Barry Purple and Robert Purple), but I can't think of any notable cases. I guess it'd be "Mr Barry Purple and Mr Robert Purple", not "Mr and Mr Barry and Robert Purple". -- JackofOz (talk) 03:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

One further thought. Mrs Jane Doe is used not only for divorced women but for widowed women. The protocol I had drummed into me, and I still abide by with elderly people, was that:

• whenever I wrote to a married woman who uses Mrs (and they all did back then), for example, to thank my grandmother for Christmas/birthday presents I had probably already broken, the envelope was addressed to "Mrs (husband's name or initial) (husband's surname)" - eg. if my grandparents were Ambrose and Felicity Splinge, I'd write to grandma Felicity as "Mrs A Splinge" or "Mrs Ambrose Splinge"
• but if grandpa Ambrose were to die (because, heaven forbid, divorce was not only unknown and unthinkable in my family but so unmentionable that the protocol didn't even contemplate such a circumstance; seriously, the first divorced person I ever met was when I was about 16), then I'd write to Mrs F Splinge or Mrs Felicity Splinge.

Mind you, this was back before "Ms" had been invented, and Ms has swept away many or most of these notions, but people of my surviving aunts' generation (one's just turned 90, and they're all at least 85; all widowed) appreciate these sorts of things from their (obviously) favourite nephew.

Also, when writing to a couple, the husband's name takes precedence not only in the surname itself but also in the order of titles - Mr & Mrs A Splinge, never Mrs & Mr. It's easy to work out why it's that way: our society is patrilinear - it's short for "Mr Ambrose Splinge (the head of the family) and his wife, whatever her name is". But it's also odd given that the culture in which these conventions thrived was also the culture that insisted on "ladies first", an audience is always addressed as "Ladies and gentlemen", never "Gentlemen and ladies", etc. Funny, I'd never noticed that anomaly before. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:40, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

in the article about the frech national motto liberté is mistranslated

i am a french speaker and i have become aware that the article of liberté egalité et fraternité has been mistranslated liberté is not liberty but freedom i am not a registered user of wikipedia so could someone edit this ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.23.48.9 (talk) 23:40, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

What meaning of the word 'liberty' do you think is intended here, that is not 'freedom'? Skittle (talk) 00:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

If you compare the meanings of the English words "Liberty" and "Freedom" in Wiktionary, you'll find that both definitions for freedom are included in the many meanings of liberty. All of the other meanings of liberty that are relevent here contain the word 'free' or 'freedom'. So as far as Wiktionary is concerned, they mean exactly the same thing (unless you are using "liberty" in the sense of a sailor's vacation or "taking a liberty" as in breaking a social convention). So I think you can translate liberté either way - and given the choice, it makes sense to pick the word that has the closest sound to the French word. Anyway, my wife is native-born French and has spent a good fraction of her life in various English speaking countries and she says: "Either liberty or freedom is OK but liberty sounds better." So, no - please don't change the article - you wouldn't want to upset my wife...trust me on this one! SteveBaker (talk) 02:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

side note: one does not have to be a registered user to edit an article (except when it's protected, which the article on france isn't) Cryo921 (talk) 04:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

November 20

Illegal/Navy

Can an Illegal Immigrant join the Navy,or the air force,army,marines,coast-guards etc.? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.170.104.24 (talk) 00:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Im almost 100% to join the the U.S militaary you have to be a LEGAL U.S citizen. If you try to join at least one of these 3 will happen.

• 1. You will be detained then proably deported
• 2. possibly granted a greencard or something
• 3. Told you cant join and be let go.

Im no expert on what will happen though so takes theses with a grain of salt if you are illegal and try to join. Esskater11 01:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No, you don't have to be a citizen, but you have to be a legal resident. My last ship had a couple of non-citizens. BTW, you generally do have to be a citizen to hold a security clearance and not having a clearance limits your job opportunities within the Navy (and other services)> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.128.41 (talk) 02:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

You certainly don't have to be a Citizen - and serving with the US military puts you on a fast-track to getting citizenship when you leave the service. There was a piece on NPR the other day about non-citizens who were in the US military and had been killed in Iraq - there was some kind of scandal about the subsequent fate of their families (who were also non-citizens)...I forget the details. However, I'm also doubtful that they'd accept an illegal immigrant. It might be possible to go back to ones country of origin and apply to join from there - since everything would then be legal, maybe that's OK. But I don't know for sure. You'd need to check with a military recruitment person. SteveBaker (talk) 18:50, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Fuck i always mix the words citiznes and residents up. Have you ever been thinkinh of one word then said another well...Esskater11 04:25, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

No, you don't. A neighbour of mine joined the US army (I'm in Ireland) and got citezenship soon after leaving. He apparently got a great penision too--Phoenix-wiki ^{(talk · contribs)} 16:54, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

An essay about the well-meaning but misguided

I once ran across an essay/commentary on the problem of 'difficult users' or 'challenging users'. I'm fairly certain it was once linked to by a Wikipedia editor in a discussion, but I don't recall where the essay was hosted. (It seems like a Meatball Wiki kind of thing, but I can't locate it there.)

Generally speaking, it discussed the issue of individuals whose intentions were unquestionably good, but whose continued participation in or contributions to a project or community were ultimately detrimental. It examined the conflicting interests at work, and acknowledged that in some cases a community must sometimes eject a good-faith but incompatible contributor.

If I recall correctly, the specific case study looked at a mailing list for some sort of open-source software project. Most of the major contributors to the list were developers who were actually cranking out code, but one of the most-frequent messsagers was a kibitzer. It was widely agreed that he was a nice guy, but he wasn't writing code and his frequent messages were a distraction to the developers. After a number of pleas to him to reduce his frequency of posting and/or increase his contribution to the work, the decision was finally taken to ban him from the mailing list.

Ultimately, one of the developers went so far as to telephone the kibitzer, to explain matters. Despite their best efforts, the kibitzer never really understood why he'd been banned.

If anyone has seen this essay, or can point me to one on a similar theme, I'd be much obliged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TenOfAllTrades (talk • contribs) 00:40, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Saddam Hussein and Terrorism

Hello:

I am a bit confused about Saddam Hussein's connection to terrorism. I was wondering if someone could answer the following questions I had regarding this:

1. Was Saddam Hussein a terrorist? 2. Did Saddam Hussein fund terrorism? (If so, did he fund terrorism in Iraq, specifically?)

Thanks,

--Vikramkr (talk) 00:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No and no. Saddam cracked down on terrorist groups, as when you're a secular dictator of a country you don't want a bunch of religious extremists running around blowing things up. In fact, we have a whole article on this at Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda! -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 00:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't mistake "terrorism" as being synonymous with "al Qaeda" or even "religious fundamentalists". There have been terrorists long before al Qaeda (e.g. Shining Path, Organisation de l'armée secrète, Pablo Escobar, Timothy McVeigh) and there are many branches of terrorism today unrelated to al Qaeda or Islam at all. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 01:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

My understanding, though I don't know much about it, is that at various times Saddam Hussein's government did support terrorist groups operating outside of Iraq. They did not include al Qaeda, and I'm not sure whether these groups were effective or how long this support lasted (or in what form). If I recall he "sponsored" (again, of what sort?) terrorism against Israel and Iran in particular, but again I'm not sure of the details off-hand. See, e.g., Abu Nidal, which has some lines in it about the Iraqis sponsoring attacks against the Saudis, or the Iranian Embassy Siege. He would not have funded terrorism in his own state—terrorism is destabilizing and Saddam's state was characterized by (brutal) attempts at order. As for the question of whether he was a "terrorist", it depends a lot on what you mean by that. Personally I don't think it's the most useful analytical term by itself. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 01:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Today the word terrorist has no real meaning anymore. Anyone who kills alot is a terrorist. Saddam was a tyranical dictator who ordered the deaths of thousands of men and women to stay in power. But anyway, Props to 24.147 for bringing up pablo escobar. hes probaly the worst narco terrorist ever. Esskater11 02:13, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

As others have said, the word "terrorist" lacks a clear meaning. However, Saddam Hussein, by nearly all accounts a brutal dictator, was most famously accused of terrorism and ties to terrorism by the U.S. government. Critics of the U.S. government, however, cite evidence in support of allegations that the U.S. government has itself sponsored terrorism. Marco polo (talk) 02:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

A great book that recently came out is Mike Davis, Buda's Wagon: A Brief History of the Car Bomb. Highly recommended for those wanting to think about the global history of terrorism; it is a short book, a well-written book, a "fun" book, a depressing book. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 02:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• Saddam Hussein used to make payments of US$10-25K to the families of suicide bombers who had attacked Israeli targets, presumably to annoy the Israelis and raise his own image in the Arab world (source). When the GOP was beating the drum to attack Iraq in 2001-2003, it often would conflate his sponsorship of this kind of terrorism with having something to do with 9/11. As .187 notes, all terrorists aren't on the same team with Osama bin Laden playing the role of Cobra Commander. --Sean 14:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Carlos the Jackal had some association with Saddam but with anything to do with Carlos the details aren't exactly clear. Rmhermen (talk) 18:52, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Looking for an editorial

I am looking for an editorial or article from the Washington Post on Jim Gilmore on his tenure as governor of Virginia when Gilmore announced his presidential candidacy in December 2006 when Gilmore decided to run for president. The article or editorial was very critical of Gilmore and compared him to the current occupant of the White House. My google searches of wapo have been unsuccessful. Can you help me? --Blue387 (talk) 02:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

May I suggest going to your local library and asking them if they have microfiched archives of the Post? Or even, possibly, have kept back issues from 2006. Corvus cornix (talk) 20:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Tylenol vs no-name

Looking at a package of Tylenol painkillers, the only medicinal ingredients in the pill is acetaminophen. Would that mean that the rest of the pill has no medical effect and does not contribute to making one feel better? Alternatively, if one compares a pill of Tylenol with a pill of a lesser-known brand of acetaminophen painkiller, assuming the active ingredient is present in equal amounts in both pills, would it have the same effect in suppressing headaches and pain? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 02:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Assuming that the label on the lesser-known brand is accurate, then yes. Marco polo (talk) 02:23, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I always buy generic-brand painkillers, because they're just enormously less expensive, and they still work just fine. --Masamage ♫ 02:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

My pharmacist, when I asked a similar question, told me that the generic-brands are usually equally effective, but have less control over the production (so 200mg might be somewhere between 180mg and 220mg), because they are manufactured more cheaply. They will also likely have a different make up in the non-active ingredients, which can be important for people with allergies. Steewi (talk) 05:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

There was some upset about generic versions of drugs recently (not Tylenol) because the generic version didn't have the same time-release packaging that the original had. So the branded version would produce a gradual supply of the drug over several hours but the generic equivelant would dump the whole amount into your system in a couple of minutes. For some drugs this doesn't matter - but for others it's really serious. Anyway - those packaging details don't appear in the "active ingredient" list - so two versions of the medication could appear to be identical - but in practice operate very differently. SteveBaker (talk) 07:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

As well, aside from the amount of acetaminophen and flavour, are there any other difference between Tylenol for children and adult Tylenol? Acceptable (talk) 21:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Taco bell meat!!!

Ok i LOVEE taco bell, i mean love. i mean love in the sort of way that if taco bell was a girl id impregnat it. But i always eat tacos and everytime i eat the meat part im like theres no fucking way this is real meat. Sooooo ANYWAY is the meat in thier tacos real of like odd mystery meat thing. Esskater11 02:59, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, but your desire to impregnate meat reminds me of Portnoy's Complaint, in which, at least in the book, Portnoy masturbates with the use of a piece of liver. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

That’s Philip Roth for you. Has he ever written a book without a major sex scene? --S.dedalus (talk) 20:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

It's ground beef. What else would it be? See [14]. —Keenan Pepper 04:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Try looking up the local regulations for the definition of 'meat'. In Australia (if I remember correctly), in a meat pie, for example, 'meat' can include a whole list of animals (including some surprising ones, like bison, possum, and so on), and 'meat' only has to apply to 25% of the ingredients, the rest of which can be made up of gravy and textured vegetable protein. Steewi (talk) 05:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

According to this statement (warning- pdf file), Taco Bell meat does indeed has beef as its first ingredient, seasoned with lots of natural and not-so-natural flavors and some coloring. I was fascinated to see cocoa powder on the ingredients list; that's the secret ingredient that makes the meat in Cincinnati chili so yummy, too. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 13:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

After you cook the meat, grind it in a blender until it is the correct texture. This helps to keep the meat in the taco shell on buritto wrap, etc... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.88.64.190 (talk) 16:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Mawson Station Antarctica

Could you guys please find me a logo or symbol representing Mawson Station in Antarctica? 58.163.140.103 (talk) 05:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I looked all over their website - and waded through a few hundred Google images hits - there doesn't seem to be anything like that. If they have a logo, they're awfully shy about showing it! The nearest things I found were general Australian Antarctic mission logos and some crappy commemorative coin. SteveBaker (talk) 07:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

This could be it http://www.virtualantarctica.com/mawson2000/images/station_logo.gif (from [15]). There's also this generic Australian Government Department logo - "Australian Government - Department of the Environment and Water Resources - Australian Antarctic Division" - but it's rather small and not really worth putting in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.99.82.107 (talk) 10:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

It's bad. I found a postmark on page 11 of this from Australia Post (you'd better have a fast connection), and an image of the coin from the Perth Mint mentioned above. Neither is the logo. --Milkbreath (talk) 13:23, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Commercialization of fictional objects

What was the first fictional object (if we don't count religious texts as fiction, and therefore don't count things like the True Cross) to be turned into a real product and mass-marketed? Was it the Necronomicon? NeonMerlin 07:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it quite meets your criteria, but you may want to check out The Archies. They started out within the comics alright, but it's debatable whether they actually were a real group as such. Your question could be quite broad. If National Periodicals sold Superman capes in 1940, would that qualify? I don't know for a fact that they did, but there was a ton of Superman commercialization at the time, so I'd be surprised if they didn't. It wouldn't have been marketed as the "real" Superman's cape, however. Matt Deres (talk) 11:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

what about cans of Krusty Cola? I'm sure that there are various other Simpsons related merchandise which originated from the show. I think also there were some Jurassic Park items too. 83.104.131.135 (talk) 13:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

and, adding to the proof that Wikipedia does have an article for everything there's this List_of_products_in_The_Simpsons 83.104.131.135 (talk) 13:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

And of course - Wonka Bar's first appeared for sale in 1971. I would imagine that post-1940 (when we entered the television age) there are lots and lots of these. Pre-1940? we'll have to see what others can think of. 81.77.230.15 (talk) 13:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

The waterbed may meet your requirements for being a fictional object that was later marketed. See Robert A. Heinlein for more. Dismas|^(talk) 14:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• H.G. Wells predicted atom bombs in The World Set Free (1914). I believe da Vinci drew some helicopter-type things. --Sean 14:59, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Though they weren't really anything like what atomic bombs ended up being. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Which in turn makes me think of Jules Verne. Lanfear's Bane | t 16:37, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

That's not really got anything to do with commercial exploitation, though, has it? Whereas Fly Fishing by J.R. Hartley... 64.236.80.62 (talk) 16:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No, but I did just say it made me think of... but you are correct. And good example. Lanfear's Bane | t 16:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Thankfully, atom bombs haven't been mass-marketed (yet...) shoy (^words _words) 17:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, they sort of have been. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

So, to summarize: What's the earliest thing we have so far? The first actual published Necronomicon was in 1973, so Wonka bars at 1971 knock that one out. Anything from The Simpsons is beaten by those two. The Archies...I dunno - iffy at best. Da Vinci's helicopter first flew as a practical vehicle in 1942 - but had been used as a toy by the Chinese in 400BC (1800 years before Da Vinci) - it's also arguable that it wasn't "fictional" - Da Vinci designed something that he believed would really be possible - so it wasn't technically fictional. Waterbeds were around in 1871 - long before Heinlein - so they were real before they were fiction and therefore out of the running. Fly Fishing by J.R.Hartley (whilst an EXCELLENT choice!) is far too recent. Atom bombs are from 1945 - and we might argue about whether they were sold - but Superman's cape in 1940 beats out everything so far (including any claim The Archies might have and that dubious helicopter).

It's hard to imagine that there isn't some example before 1940...but right now, I'm stuck for ideas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveBaker (talk • contribs) 18:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

This is a 1939 cut-out paper doll set from Gullivers Travels. (Actually, I'm not sure this counts as a fictional object "made real") SteveBaker (talk) 18:23, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Coonskin caps arose from the popularity of the Davy Crockett shows in the 1950s. I had one. Corvus cornix (talk) 20:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Those were never fictional objects though - the native Americans were wearing them long before Davy Crockett famously didn't wear one at the Alamo. Yes - there is no evidence whatever that he wore one - it's an urban legend stemming from movies that depicted him that way. Still, I have to be careful what I say - Texans don't like to hear that - it'll upset them tomorrow while they are celebrating how the early "American" settlers saved the Indians from starvation by giving them turkey at thanksgiving.  :-P SteveBaker (talk) 14:31, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Does the creation of a new fictional name that is now commonplace count ? If so WENDY was invented for the sister in Peter Pan90.14.21.247 (talk) 16:03, 21 November 2007 (UTC)petitmichel

And "Kim" comes from Show Boat. The character of Kim was born on the boat at the place where Kentucky, Illinois and Missouri come together. The book that the play is based on even mentions how everybody considered her name ugly because it was so unusual. Corvus cornix_talk 17:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't doubt the provenance of that particular character's name. And maybe it was very unusual for a girl at that time, but there would have been plenty of boy Kims by then, certainly in Britain and India. Rudyard Kipling's novel Kim predated Edna Ferber's novel by about 25 years. It was a huge seller in most English-speaking parts (which may or may not include the deep south). -- JackofOz (talk) 18:52, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

See also Pamela (name) and Vanessa (name). —Tamfang (talk) 23:52, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Toy soldiers, dolls, and stuffed animals have been around forever, and in general many of them are taken from fiction, so I think your question is bounded by your definition of "mass-marketing." How about the Velveteen Rabbit? -Arch dude (talk) 19:13, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The Velveteen Rabbit would only count when someone actually started making velveteen rabbits - and I suspect that (just like toy soldiers, dolls and other stuffed animals), the actual toy existed BEFORE the fiction. Perhaps someone started making and selling actual velveteen rabbits that look exactly like the fictional one - but I don't see any evidence of that before 1940 - so Superman Capes are still the winners. It seems crazy that we can't come up with a clear pre-1940's example though...it's driving me nuts! SteveBaker (talk) 20:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Teddy bear, 1902. -Arch dude (talk) 00:00, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Train Disappearences

We've all heard of disappearing ships (Mary Celeste and USS Cyclops (AC-4)) and disappearing planes (flight 19 etc.)

But have there been any train disappearences where the train completely vanished without a trace (like the USS Cyclops) or was found completely deserted (like the Mary Celeste)? --Wiki Fanatic | Talk 12:38, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

The Phantom vehicle article mentions a ghost train in Indonesia in 2000, but the external link is in a language not English. A Google search for the incident turned up nothing. --Milkbreath (talk) 13:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

There was a sci-fi short story (which I would have sworn was by Isaac Asimov) about a small change in the Boston subway network that results in the network gaining infinite connectivity. As a result, a train disappears on the network. I can't find the story with Google, but if I can remember and no one beats me to it, I'll post more about it when I get home.

Atlant (talk) 14:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe you're referring to A Subway Named Mobius by Armin Joseph Deutsch. Algebraist 15:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

But Asimov was a good guess: Asimov was a friend of Deutsch's and encouraged him to have the story published. That's why it was set in Boston, where they lived. The movie version was set in Buenos Aires, because that's where the filmmakers lived. --Anonymous, 05:22 UTC, November 21, 2007.

I appreciate the effort, but I'm only interested in real-world examples. Completely fictional accounts really don't help me.--Wiki Fanatic | Talk 16:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

(I moved WF's response to avoid confusion, which would not have arisen if not for Atlant's unusual habit of signing on a separate line. —Tamfang (talk) 23:56, 21 November 2007 (UTC))

In Back to the Future 3 they had a train they use to go back to the future that to those who remained will have looked like it disappeared, though I guess that's not going to count...ny156uk (talk) 17:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually the train doesn't go forward in time, just the DeLorean which is pushed by the train. The train ended up at the bottom of Eastwood Gulch. Donald Hosek (talk) 17:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No - Ny156uk is thinking of the time-travelling locomotive at the very end of the movie when they are all back in the present-day. SteveBaker (talk) 17:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

It's an unrealistic request - I mean, ships can be wildly off-course and sink without trace and planes too can crash in the ocean or in places so remote and far from their flight path that they are never found again. But a train can only be on the tracks or somewhere very close by - how could it possibly vanish? A 'ghost' train travelling on with nobody on board is also unlikely because all modern trains have elaborate systems to ensure that they stop if the engineer isn't right there at the controls (See dead man's handle). SteveBaker (talk) 17:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I am doing a report on vehicular disappearances. I found many stories (sourced and unsourced) on disappearing cars, ships, planes, mobile homes, motorcycles, hell even bikes. But I haven't been able to find any on trains; maybe its because of the reason you list above, but I feel there must something out there regarding trains. And it doesn't necessarily have to be modern.--Wiki Fanatic | Talk 18:08, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like trains (and buses) are pretty safe then. But seriously I have never heard of such a thing. Googling "train that disappeared" throws up some interesting references, mostly fictional of course, but there is the classic case of that train full of Nazi gold....--Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I suppose it is possible that all the people on a train or even a train it’s self could disappear without a trace if “foul play” (what a ridicules euphemism) was involved. It must have happened somewhere. --S.dedalus (talk) 20:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No, it's not true that it must have happened somewhere. I would go so far as to say that it's absurd to think it could have. --Anonymous, 05:26 UTC, November 21, 2007.

Really? According to Many-worlds interpretation this event must have taken place a nearly infinite number of times. :) More in our plane of existence, it seems likely that the fog of war and its accompanying confusion would have resulted in the disappearance of a train or two. Perhaps a military historian could help. --S.dedalus (talk) 07:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems a train disappeared briefly in 1903. [16] --S.dedalus (talk) 07:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh come on! The train was a few hours late - you can't count that as 'disappeared'! SteveBaker (talk) 14:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Of course, the Mary Celese didn't disappear, the people on board did, but I get your general drift. I know of a case where an armoured personnel carrier disappeared. A friend of mine was in the Australian Army Reserve some years ago, and he told me that while out on a training exercise one weekend, they managed to lose an entire tank. The fun part was reporting it to their senior officer; they decided to just add it to a long list of minor items scheduled to be written off - like boxes of paper clips, etc. They did this, the officer never noticed the new entry, he approved the whole list for write-off, and nothing more was ever said about it. I never got an explanation that washed, but my friend has always swore this was the literal truth. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

A Google Books search for full text books with occurrences of the words "train" and "disappear" shows many instances of trains disappearing: around the bend, around the curve, up the glen, or simply in the distance. In [17] a train disappeared beneath the water when a storm blew down the bridge.. Presumably it vanished from sight without a trace in each instance. In [18] a train disappeared for three weeks: then it was found on a siding. Then there was Byron [19]: "'Let the chamber be clear'd.'- The train disappear'd." For a mystery story dealing with a train's physical disappearance, see "Snowball in July [“The Phantom Train”; Ellery Queen], (ss) This Week Aug 31 1952 ,Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine, Jul 1956, mentioned at [20]. Edison (talk) 17:44, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Except for the Byron quote, which obviously is using a different meaning of "train", I can't view the pages cited. The first passage is presumably referring to the Tay Bridge disaster, where although the train was out of sight, there was no question as to where it was (and indeed the locomotive was later retrieved and repaired). Ellery Queen is fiction. That leaves the second passage cited, which I don't know enough about to comment on. --Anon, 23:45 UTC, November 21.

An/arctic satalite pics

I was trying to find satalite pics of north or south pole stations, particularly south pole, on google maps, I was hoping for satalite shots, just curious. can some one pls give me a link. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.191.136.3 (talk) 14:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

You could try some of the external links at Arctic#External_links and Antarctic#External_links as a starting point. Lanfear's Bane | t 16:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I should point out that most of the photos on Google maps are not from satellites but from aircraft. The best resolution from commercially available satellite photography is several meters per pixel - but some of the Google stuff is down at 10cm per pixel which means it's gotta be from aerial photography. This probably explains the lack of decent data for the poles. SteveBaker (talk) 18:38, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, the high-resolution photos that they provide for big cities and other areas of great interest are indeed clearly from aircraft. For other areas the resolution seems to be within the satellite range. I have no idea how many photos of one type they serve vs. how many of the other. --Anon, 05:30 UTC, Nov. 21.

In the case of the Antarctic, it's hard to imagine an aircraft flying up and down a continent twice the size of Australia taking detailed photographs - especially given the rigorous conditions there and the unlikelyhood that anyone is going to use Google Maps for navigating there! In the case of the Arctic, nothing stays still for very long (there is no land there - you'd just be looking at floating sea-ice) - so whatever photos there are will not represent how it looks now. Hence, I doubt anyone would take the time and effort to photograph it closely. So it's down to satellite photography then - but the resolution will be poor - NASA's Landsat-7 was in a polar orbit - and took photos at 15 meter per pixel resolution. You can probably see the polar data with the NASA World Wind system - which you can download for free (links are in the article). The QuickBird commercial system is also in a polar orbit and produces monochrome images down to about two thirds of a meter and colour down to 2.5 meters - which is probably good enough for your needs. But still, the quality won't be anything like as good as you are used to finding with Google Maps for most urban areas. SteveBaker (talk) 15:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

In any case Google Maps does not cover the poles; all coverage ends at latitude 85 north or south. --Anon, 00:00, November 22, 2007.

Another song finding question.

Does anyone know what song is playing in the background of the new scion comercial, it flashes between cars driving at night and some light effects, sometimes slowing down or speeding up randomly or nonrandomly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.191.102.55 (talk) 18:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No idea but their site (http://www.scion.com ) has lots of music in its media-player, I would be amazed if one of them on that list didn't feature in the advert. ny156uk (talk) 22:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Foreign Policy in the United States

Why is Foreign policy important to the united states government? I have an essay over why the united states political system is great i have everything but foreign policy, it confuses me i cant find what exactly is foreign policy. HELP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.66.147.1 (talk) 19:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Try: Foreign policy and Foreign relations of the United States. And, I suppose, Hegemony. I have an essay over why the united states political system is great. Oh good. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Just remember that greatness and goodness are not the same thing! —Tamfang (talk) 00:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Game Maker.

In the Game Maker (lite), from YoYo games, I'm working on a game, but theres thinks that, if i knew, I could use to make the game better, but know matter have much I reread everything, review the samples, and experiement, i can't find out how to make the stuff happen, please tell me how to do this stuff...

1- Make the main character shoot something, like a gun, or an arrow, anything, (example- click Space to fire gun...)

2- make another character do something when he/she sees your character, (example- you enter an alley, someones in there, because he seen you, or you entered the alley, he fired his guns...)(Example- You enter a sertant square, and another character will automaticcly do something...)

3- place up the points and want/where their at, (Example- if you look to the right of the screen, your see a box, in side the box is your lives and score...)

4- Instead of the screen being one HUGE map, and the bigger the map, the smaller everything in the map is, the screen is normal size, and when you which the side of the map, it starts scrolling over to reveal/show more land, (Example- You reach the end of the map, and it scrolls over...)

5- This might answer #4, so i'll ask it, When something happens that causes the level to change, how do you skip levels, or choose which level you go to? (Example- [level 9] You fall into the hole, it that's you back down to level 8, but the hole next to it is much farther down, and will take you to level 3...)

Please answer it in a way that it's useful, Thnak you... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.130.222.150 (talk) 21:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• I haven't the foggiest idea, but my guess is that since you have fairly specific questions about a fairly specific piece of software, you might get better results at their dedicated community support forums: http://gmc.yoyogames.com/. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:40, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Without seeing your game and being a deep guru in the yoyogames system, it's very hard (well, impossible really) to answer your questions. However, I'll say this much - those automated 'game maker' systems (and there have been a lot of them over the years) that claim to allow you to write a game without doing any programming are all horribly limiting. If you really want to make a game by yourself that follows your vision of how you want it to look and play, you are going to NEED to learn to program. Even with the massively sophisticated Unreal engine we use here at work (I'm a professional games programmer), we still need a dozen full time C++ programmers working on the game along with all of the artists, game designers and audio guys. SteveBaker (talk) 14:49, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It's true that they are limiting but that's no reason to discourage people playing with them. The entire point is that they are limiting—they narrow the parameters so you don't need to do everything from scratch or require a whole team of workers. Nobody is claiming that they're going to write the next big hit with such software, but it's a great way to learn programming concepts and encourage a hobby. I disagree with your assessment about what people need to learn in order to make a game that they want; I've been using Adventure Game Studio for awhile and am coming up with a great version of exactly what I want, which happens to be a retro, Sierra-style adventure game that requires—wait for it—a text parser!! This is the sort of thing that no commercial studio would give five minutes of time today, and it isn't something that's going to make any money at all, and I'm doing it for myself and for people like me. It's fun, it's entertaining, and I bet you the final result will be more interesting to a lot of people than a lot of commercial products.

Don't let your professional expectations/norms lead you to crap on people's hobbies and amateur visions; it's silly and unnecessary. I don't think anyone is confusing these programming kits (which just abstract some of the coding for you and simplify the programming) with writing Half-Life. Some of the amateur-made games that have come out of these things have been much better than a number of professional games that have come out; focusing on character development and storytelling becomes a lot easier when you aren't trying to make everything look new and high tech and accommodate an economic demographic that favors senseless violence and button mashing. I got more enjoyment out of the Chzo Mythos than I have out of games for a long time. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 18:34, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

No - please don't get me wrong - these things have a place - and I have HUGE respect for amateur games writers because I was one myself until I decided to take it up as a career (Lemur of Lima, TuxKart, Botzilla and Tux the Penguin - A Quest for Herring to name just a few). If what you have is a toolkit for generating Monkey Island-style games - and what you want to make is a monkey island-style game - then absolutely, go for it! The problem is that people see "Game Maker" and immediately assume they'll have Quake III up and running in a couple of days. If the vision you have happens to line up with what the tool provides, then fair enough. But if you have a personal vision for what you want that differs even slightly from what the tool does (which sounds like the problem our OP is dealing with) - then sadly, you're stuck with it. If you learn to program then given time, you can write anything that the hardware is capable of. I used to have fun with a gadget called 'Shoot em up construction kit' that made games like space invaders, galaxians and such - it was a blast to mess with - although all the games came out looking more or less like galaxians or space invaders! I just hate it when people have huge expectations for these limited systems. SteveBaker (talk) 20:21, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't sound to me like the OP's idea is beyond the capabilities of the system; usually these systems can be pretty flexible within a few major parameters, it's just a matter of knowing how to do it. Anyway learning the limitations is a task in and of itself—I've always said that most programming is not knowing the language itself (languages can be looked up; once you know one you can usually figure out most others that are similar to it) but just learning how to go about problems and even the difference between a big problem and a small one. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Also note that there is a world of gradiation between "automated" game maker programs and the sort of hard-core, bare-metal C++ programming that gives you the Half-Life engine. There are a number of "easier" (arguably), full-featured programing languages, many of which come with toolkits (programming libraries) designed specifically for building games. I don't have much (read: "any") experience, but I'd point you to something like Adobe Flash or to Python with PyGame (or Ruby or Lua or Smalltalk, etc.), if you're interested. -- 20:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.104.112.120 (talk)

All of those sorts of things are still going to be world's harder than the pre-fab makers (which are not usually "automated" in any strict sense; they only simplify). I can program Flash Actionscript better than the average bear but I wouldn't dare try to make a game of any complexity in it; even with the basic graphical apparatus simplified (which is what Flash does best) you'd have to build the rest of the game framework up from scratch, and that's what these "game makers" do for you. Even handling things like simple keyboard controls is a lot easier if the work is abstracted for you. It puts limitations on what you can do, obviously, but for people starting out or people who want to see fast results from their work I recommend the "game makers". You can spend a month trying to learn Flash from scratch and come up with not a whole lot more than variations on Hello world, whereas with a "game maker" like AGS you could have a functional demo in that time. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Gold Placer

What is placer gold and how does it differ from gold nuggets and regular gold? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.126.142.66 (talk) 23:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

We have an article on that (of course!) Placer mining. SteveBaker (talk) 23:19, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

November 21

I want to open a beer in a really alpha masculine way

How can I open bottles with my knuckle? lots of issues | leave me a message 04:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Knucle? thats wimpy. The real alpha masculin way is to quickly pull out a knife, stab the top then down the beer. Thats ALPHA masculine. Knucle is like more Alpha middle school drinker masculine. Esskater11 04:23, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Even more alpha masculine would be to break off or smash the neck of the bottle, then down the beer. Clearly being too alpha masculine can cause injury. As to how to remove a bottle cap with a knuckle, I’m afraid someone else will have to help you, as I’m not of the legal age to imbibe alcohol in the US. --S.dedalus (talk) 05:56, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget to crush the bottle against your forehead when you are finished. (Does not constitute real advice). Lanfear's Bane | t 11:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I once saw a guy at a train station wack the top of a wine bottle and the cap just popped off. Guess he'd had a lot of practice. Think outside the box 11:49, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Something along the lines of sabrage perhaps. Lanfear's Bane | t 13:10, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I can do the whacking it onto the edge of something hard thing - it's not that different from sabrage. Find something with a nice, hard (preferably metal) edge - (The top of my refrigerator works pretty well) lay the side of the bottle against the edge and either jerk it downwards really hard (or less impressively, whack it on top with the palm of your hand) so that the edge of the crown cap hits the edge of the surface (the top of my fridge in this case). If you do it right, the top will pop right off. However, it's not particularly masculine - an ex-girlfriend showed me how to do it - so it's a positively girly way to open a bottle. I agree that stabbing through the cap with a knife and twisting it to make a triangular hole is the only completely macho way. And we aren't talking about your wussy boy-scout knife here - we're talking 8" blade, serrated back edge with blood grooves. Ask yourself honestly: WWCND? (Oh - sorry - that's "What Would Chuck Norris Do?" for the less masculine amongst us). SteveBaker (talk) 14:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, how very tough you lads are. This is almost an alpha male convention. Excuse me while I put up some trees for you to pi** on.

Dude I went to high school with used to open beer bottles with his teeth. Think he wedged the cap against a back molar and just popped it off. We thought it was cool... Probably absolutely terrible for his teeth though, so, not advice, do not attempt, consult a dentist or whatever. Azi Like a Fox (talk) 16:23, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

File:Bowie.jpg

Bowie - not girly?...Not at all

My sister used to do that (thus rendering the 'alpha male' thing questionable...) until she chipped a tooth. Painful. I advise against it. Skittle (talk) 17:53, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Yep - there you go. Biting it off - also officially girly, sorry OP - you're going to have to order that Bowie Knife and just stab away at those bottles (although...a North Korean bayonet circa 1938 would be MUCH more macho...you know...just sayin...not that there's anything too effeminate about a Bowie knife). SteveBaker (talk) 20:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Yea its either a Bowie knife, or you could do the next best thing though you would get arrested. You could take the bottom find the closest guy and break the top of his head Esskater11 20:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Lay a bottle down on a hay bale with a bottle opener wedged in the cap, put a glass under the bottle. Go back 50 yards and shoot the bottle opener with a arrow. The cap will pop off and the beer will fill the glass. I saw a guy do it on TV once.--ChesterMarcol (talk) 20:26, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Basketball

Please explain what "high-low game" and "low-high game" are. 81.89.88.106 (talk) 07:23, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet "high-low game" means the offense runs through the bigger players (so the Power Forward and/or the Center), whereas "low-high game" means the offense runs through the smaller players (the point guard and shooting guard, and maybe the small forward).

Teams with dominant big men who have good hands would run a high-low game, where when offense gets set they pass the ball to the big man who tries to get position on his defender. Since he is so good there would be defensive help from another defender which would leave another person open, or at least partially open. The offense runs through him since he can either score directly or move the ball around to an open player who would score.

Teams with good guard play would run a low-high game. So when the offense gets set the small guys would use their quickness to beat their defender which would require another defensive player come help out. Then there is an open or partially open player that the small guy can pass to. This sort of play would use a quick guard or small forward. The offense would run through them since they could take the ball to the basket, pull up and take a shot over an off-balance defender, or pass the ball off to the player left open by the help defense.--droptone (talk) 13:46, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

VHS vs Betacam

I'm thinking of ordering some archival footage for my own use (potentially to digitize and use in my own film editing). On VHS it is only $10 a film, while on Betacam it is $100. Is the quality of the Betacam going to be superior enough to justify the extra expense? (Note that I am not asking why the expense should be 10X more; archives have ridiculous policies relating to price that usually have no correlation with work performed; at some they charge you much more to scan something at 600 DPI than they do at 300 DPI even though its exactly the same amount of work!!) --24.147.86.187 (talk) 19:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah - Betacam is much better quality than VHS, it's THE standard professional format used throughout the TV industry before digital TV hit the world. Are you sure this is a version of BetaCam you can read? There are many different flavors of BetaCam - some of the most recent ones are digital - the older ones analog. VHS is 330x250, BetaCam is 400x300 - but that doesn't really express the difference properly. The colour quality of BetaCam is vastly better. Some of that $90 difference in price is just the cost of the tape - the rest reflects the cost of the hardware to record it. Whether you NEED that extra quality given the price difference is something only you can answer. But I'm a little puzzled...if you have the ability to play BetaCam tapes, surely you're a video professional and are therefore already aware of the difference in quality. Those machines are hideously expensive compared to VHS machines. SteveBaker (talk) 19:59, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a professional at all in video editing (this would be for my own practice/fun), but I have access to the vast technological resources of a well-endowed university and so reading and converting between different formats is a snap (they have a number of centralized tech facilities with machines set up for this sort of thing). Thanks for the reply—I think in this case the color will be quite important, given that these are really old archival tapes and the color is already going to be somewhat dodgy; I can take whatever I can get. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:43, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

USA Picture Postcards

I am British and consider myself lucky to have travelled fairly widely around Europe and the USA and I take it kindly that quite a few of the people we have met over the years have visited us in our Scottish home, and I include those from France, Germany, Spain, England, Wales, New England USA, California USA and Hawaii USA. Over the years we have also collected picture postcards from all those places and have kept those sent to us from them too. But as much as we love America and like visiting there, I just have to say the quality and photographic standards of the USA postcards compare extremely poorly with those from Europe. Today for instance, we got 3 cards from Hawaii, and the colour quality, the views selected and the general forgettability factor were all dire, I mean really DIRE. But the people who sent them are people who I consider to have otherwise good taste so I can only imagine they are choosing from a very poor range to start with. So, if anyone here can explain why that might be, I would love to know why that is. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.242.21 (talk) 20:38, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It's a fluke. There are postcards to be had here of as fine a quality as one could hope for. But I think that we generally see the postcard more as kitsch than as high art. --Milkbreath (talk) 21:52, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

American postcards are pretty poor today; very little money or thought seems to go into them, most of them have horrible designs, atrocious pictures, and gaudy text all over them. I don't know what the rest of the world is doing with their postcards, but US ones are nothing to write home about (ironically, no?). They have historically been this way—there is a book under the title of Boring Postcards USA for sale if you are interested—though I tend to find the postcards of the last decade or two phenomenally bad. If you browse through postcard holdings in antique shops you'll often find far more interesting ones, with better subjects, better photography, etc., in my opinion. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 01:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Gold Nuggets Worth

On average how much are gold nuggets worth today or in today's market? Haven't they hit a high price for this year? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.127.98.85 (talk) 23:02, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Gold is sold by the ounce. The weight of a nugget and its percentage of gold would determine how much it is worth. Corvus cornix_talk 23:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Contemporary Literary Criticism Volume 21 editor

Help! I forgot to write down the editor for Contemporary Literary Criticism Volume 201; I need the editor for my essay! Anyone know who it is?--24.109.218.172 (talk) 23:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Jeffrey W. Hunter. Xn4 00:40, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.109.218.172 (talk) 01:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

November 22

Slapbands

I can to your site on how to find info on a certain 80's trend that was called a "slapband" (one of those bands that is "U" shaped straight but you can smack it and it will form a circle then unravel it and make it straight again) there seems that there was some sort of contriversy with it in the 80's that it was banned from schools. I searched all over the internet for other names to this "fashion statement" with no luck so I turned to you, but seems that there is no info.

But I certainly thank you for all the awesome info you guys do have and your doing a great job. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.133.34.201 (talk) 01:01, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Yup, I remember them. When we had them in the late 80s they were banned in our school due to a rumour (confirmation?) that the sliver of metal could slide out of the synthetic material outside and slit the wrists of the wearer. That having been said, I still had mine up until a year or two ago. I don't know what happened to it. I'll have to search... Steewi (talk) 01:33, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

See Slap bracelet. These are still made all over the world (google) and were originally trademarked under the name 'Slap Wrap'. The technique has been expanded to also include 'Slap on watches' and other items. 86.21.74.40 (talk) 01:56, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Modern filmaking

Do modern large Hollywood studios such as Universal and DreamWorks use digital film-capturing devices? Or are they still using the traditional film? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 01:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

writing

hello, im a writerbut im on writers block is there any websites that give you plots but i can create my characters and setting? thanxs

need help please

1. REDIRECT Insert textI know you dont help on homework but i am helping my younger sister on a project and i have looked every where from the regular dictionary to every site online and i can not seem to find what we need. she has been given four symptoms, mouth and gum soreness, wounds and cuts will not heal, loss of appetite, and sore joints. i have looked at all the diseases she was given and none of them seem to fit all the way.the diseases are...cholera, dihtheria, leprosy, dengue fever, scurvy, malaria, and yellow fever. They all seem to have one or two of the symptoms. can you help or at least point me in the right direction? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.141.20.156 (talk) 02:05, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like scurvy.

spelling help

When you say a person is full of knowledge, you can say "he is a "plefferer of knowledge". How do you spell that? Thank you

plethora ? Hmm, bad redirect!