Talk:Progress (spacecraft)

Do we need to include the Everything2 sig at the bottom? I am unfamiliar with their license but if it doesn't need to be included, it shouldn't be... -lommer 20:39, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Many changes have been done since the original Everything2 version. I also suggest removing the label.

I think that the references to N2O2 oxidiser in this article should actually be N2O - can someone check this?--NHSavage 10:40, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Now fixed - just a typo, the linked article was correctly N2O4.--NHSavage 10:58, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

ATV delayed::

The ATV has been delayed till ~ mid 2007. Changed accordingly.--subzero788 4:44, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Unmanned?

Is it correct to call this spacecraft unmanned when it is unmanned only during the launch and re-entry and when docked with a space station it can be entered and inhabited by astronauts? If it is still unmanned, then all modules of the space station also should be called unmanned since they also inhabited only when docked to the station.--Planemo 20:38, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with it being called unmanned, it is not flown my anyone inside. It can only be entered if attached to the space station in orbit. I suppose it could make clear in the article that the spacecraft when attached to the space station acts basically as another section of it, allowing astronauts to enter it. But the important thing is that it is never used for flight (either into orbit, in orbit, or in re-entry) manned. Anyway that is IMHO 128.243.220.21 14:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC) this is me Lethaniol 14:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

You're right, a spacecraft attached to a space stantion work essentially like a module of the station. And all modules of a manned space station considered manned, in spite no one ever entered in orbit in it or re-entered atmosphere.--Planemo 16:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Looks like you've worked out a consensus on this. FWIW, I agree that technically its considered unmanned, even if it does support life while docked with the station. Shell ^babelfish 23:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

What's the difference from a space station module?--Nixer 07:22, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Space station modules are (semi-)permanent fixtures of the station and generally cannot operate independently. The Progress is a cargo ferry, and is only entered for loading and unloading, and operates independently and unmanned when not attached to the space station. siafu 00:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

This is the key word: unmanned when not attached to a space station. I will change the article. --Planemo 08:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

It's unmanned period. The fact that people go in there when it's attached to the station to unload it doesn't mean that it's suddenly "manned". siafu 14:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems that the consensus here is that the spacecraft is to be consider unmanned, so I'm changing the article back to reflect that. siafu 18:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I would have to say it is unmanned. My understanding of unmanned is that it is not guided by a human or if it is, then the human is not on board. If a person gets into a UCAV to put some more ammunition in or take some out, it is stilled classified as unmanned. The flight of this vehicle is when nobody is on board so I would support this being labeled unmanned. James086 ^{Talk | Contribs} 03:51, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Then any space station module should be labelled "unmanned". The fact is that all spacecrafts are devided in two large classes: manned and unmanned that share common properties. Manned vehicles always pressurized, have thermoinsulation and usually have docking nodes. Unmanned usually unpressurized and never have docking nodes. The Progress shares properties of all the manned spacecraft and naturally should be classified as a part of manned astronautics.--Planemo 05:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Pick any unmanned aircraft or spacecraft, and at _some_ point there will be people in it doing something, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly manned. The Progress space freighter does not transport humans, so it is unmanned. If you want it classified otherwise, provide good quality references that describe it as manned. WP:NOR - CHAIRBOY (☎) 06:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

It is a transport module, some other parts are living quarters. The reason it is pressurised and insulated is so that the astronauts can access the supplies without suiting up. I don't want to sound as though I'm trying to disprove you but these sources say that it is an "unmanned" spacecraft[1][2][3]. James086 ^{Talk | Contribs} 07:06, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Heh, look at the first link. At the top. Now read. SPACECRAFT:Manned:Progress. Now open the third link. Look at the top. "Article Number: 11F615A15. Manufacturer's Designation: 7K-TG. Class: Manned. Type: Logistics. Destination: Space Station Orbit. Nation: Russia. Agency: MOM. Manufacturer: Korolev." The second link is prohibited to access from my location.--Planemo 10:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid you need to read the articles, that is the title of the first link, in the article it reads "The concept of the unmanned ship ultimately won". With regard to the 3rd link, that is referencing the craft that they modified to make the Progress. The first line of the 1st paragraph reads "Progress took the basic Soyuz 7K-T manned ferry designed for the Salyut space station and modified it for unmanned space station resupply."

But enough of this petty arguing. How about we edit the article to say

• "The Progress spacecraft is unmanned during it's flight but upon docking with a spacestation it allows astronauts inside."

or something along those lines. Any comments? James086 ^{Talk | Contribs} 10:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

See also here:[4], here:[5] and here:[6]. This is official designation. It is labelled manned by the manufacturer. I think your wording acceptable, but we should mention that it is classified manned by the producer.--Planemo 10:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

You are correct. I will let someone else edit the article however it does say the craft is manned so I have changed my mind. The article should say "manned". James086 ^{Talk | Contribs} 10:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, nicely done [7]. Explains the situation with the manned'ness very well. James086 ^{Talk | Contribs} 11:03, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Er, that's actually a bit circular. Any reference to Mark Wade is identical to references to Encyclopedia Astronautica. In the end, a single source is being cited for the 'Manned' designation. If you actually visit the manufacturer (Korolev/Energia), they use 'Unmanned' whenever they describe the Progress freighter. Here is an example press release, there are many more on their site. I think Mark Wade is great, but I would think that the actual manufacturer's designation would be considered a bit more carefully. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 15:17, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Progress 24 from Plesetsk ???

• Afaik, all Progress have been launched from Baikonour. Furthermore, I doubt the image is a NASA one... Hektor (talk) 14:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)