Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Post Revolution

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The central concerns regarding reliable sourcing and the notability guidelines are not much addressed by the comments in support of keeping the article.--Kubigula (talk) 03:59, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Post Revolution

Post Revolution (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Delete Article written by the creator of Post Revolution (see his userpage in es.wiki as proof) (WP:COI?). It lacks significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, and thus is not notable. Chabacano 16:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:ORG. It hasn't been the subject of coverage in reliable and independent secondary sources. --Paintman 21:51, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 05:01, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Both users Paintman and Chabacano are from es.wiki triyng to delete every article i write to wikipedia, it´s a personal situation and don´t must to be transferred to any wikipedia article. Personal issues must be out, the PostRevolution is an open sourced, GPL´ed, non commercial software like many others CMS in Wikipedia, has sufficient coverage and even has entries in SecurityFocus as a software in development and used in many spanish weblogs --Fabiomb15:00, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment I arrived to your article in this wikipedia because it is common for WP:COI affairs to spread from one wikipedia to another, and I consider irresponsible to do maintenance in es.wikipedia and to look the other way in en.wikipedia. Please, avoid ad hominem arguments, and focus in whether Post Revolution is notable or not. Avoid also insults and WP:CANVASSING outside wikipedia. Chabacano 16:05, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment: When you mention its entries in SecurityFocus... do you mean [1]? This is not a valid secondary source. Chabacano 18:43, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment citing rules is not a valid argument. You must to explain and there´s no actual point in your claim. My own weblog is not an issue (focus on article you say, you too please). --Fabiomb

Comment Your weblog became an issue here when you wrote a post making a call for "help" to your readers. I will quote and translate your words there: "el imbécil de "Chabacano", ese usuario de Wikipedia español que me persigue y me baneó sin mediación alguna, ahora quiere borrar mis artículos en wikipedia en inglés ¿alguien con ganas de ayudar por mi lado?" -> "The idiot of Chabacano, that user of the Spanish Wikipiedia that is chasing me and that banned me without mediation, now wants to delete my articles in Wikipedia in English ¿anybody wanting to help me? (plus a link to this page)". That produced some meatpuppets, as you can see below. And the point is well explained, but I will repeat it one more time: It lacks significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Chabacano 19:18, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

CommentThe reason to eliminate the article is your personal problem with the creator of the CMS? --Gabotes

CommentWow Chabacano, you are admiting this is personal? c'mon, delete this discussion, the article does its job well, Chabacano is using and blogger reference to delete an article! first, "no suficient links", second, when all is lost, goes to personal issues, you are not serious, this whole poll is useless. And the sources sited in the article are independient from the subject, you must to re-read them.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Gabotes (talk • contribs)

• Keep First. The objective of wikipedia is to create an encyclopedia. Not the persecution of the witches of Salem.

Second. In this case exist reliable sources, for example all users of this CRM or some reviews of argentine magazines.--Gabotes

Comment: Users of a software are not sources. Where are those reviews by Argentinian magazines? this is not valid: Taringa is a Digg-like meta-blog. A post there is not a reliable (and probably nor independent) source. Chabacano 16:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

comment this is not the spanish wikipedia, here you can't use the samr arguments. Taringa style is not in discussion, but still is a correct soruce. there's an article of this software at secunia and security focus. only common software lands there. about 100+ users of his CMS are sufficient. if there's personal issues try to avoid them for this dicussion. sorry,im writing this with a treo , its hard, so im not logged in

comment: Can you provide links for the sources you are talking about? Is this the article os security focus? It is difficult vo verify your claims. Chabacano 20:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

CommentChabacano: An example in a first search in google: Digital blog: Blogs, la ventana al mundo (it is not a review, but it refutes the saying by Chabacano)

CommentTaringa is NOT a Digg-like meta-blog, to see the entrance in es.wikipedia… OPS was erased because only have 20,000 visits per day, is not relevant in es.wikipedia parameters, sorry. Gabotes 17:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment You are right: The blog you are quoting does not make a review, and its depth of coverage of Post Revolution is minimal. I do not know what does it refute, but it is obviusly not the main flaw: "lack of significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".Chabacano

Comment Chabacano: i don´t think like you, Social Networks are valid sources, wikipedia is a Social Network and Taringa is not like Digg or Meneame, so, i don´t get your point. I think this is a pointless discussion, trasnferring a personal issue to an article discussion. I believe you can make this article grow, not delete it, it´s better for wikipedia. Can you help to improve the article? --Fabiomb

Comment: Your personal thoughts about Wikipedia are, like mines, totally irrelevant here. The point is if it does violate the rules of Wikipedia. Taringa is a social network where, as happens here, anybody can write a post, and consequently a post there is not a reliable source. Chabacano 18:27, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Wrong, Taringa has it´s own rules to prevent casual user posts, you must to be aproved and has sufficient relevance on the site to write a post (more requirements than wikipedia!) so, it´s not a valid argument (for me, of course). Still the article has sufficient reasons to exist, and you can improve it. --Fabiomb —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabiomb (talk • contribs) 18:33, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Then do you think that this post with 584 lectures until now at Taringa, a general purpose social community, is a reliable source??? (Reliable sources are authors or publications regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand.) I'm amazed.Chabacano —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chabacano (talk • contribs) 19:07, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Social networks are NOT valid sources to use for establishing notability. Please review the policy on reliable sources. In order to be notable, a subject must be covered significantly by multiple, independent sources. --Darkwind (talk) 20:18, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment: So... Wikipedia is not a valid source, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.122.114.243 (talk)

Comment Chabacano: who or what gives you enough credentials to determine what is valid content or not? what are you searching for? personal glory?. Please do not let your personal feelings for the user become your doom, or people are going to start looking at your articles and check if they have enough external references --Gmfnem —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmfnem (talk • contribs) 18:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep I don't have an account here. If the question is being "worthy of wikipedia" or not, I think we are just out of the question here. Since other CMS like Phpnuke or Drupal are comfortably found in wikipedia. If it's a popularity matter, i think the users of PostRevolution are enough to make it "worthy". On a personal and professional (sorry, i have to mention here that I'm project leader on programming resources for the National and State (Provincia de Buenos Aires) governments) opinion I think it would be fair not only to keep the article, but to instruct es.wikipedia's mods on restoring it there as well. PostRevolution's community is growing as well as the interest on it on behalf of the Argentine (and most Latin American countries) government, which has stated privilege on the use and support for all OpenSource projects and developments (only mentioned it so whoever is asking, make your maths, it WILL continue to grow interest). For what's my opinion worth, I find no COI nor ORG here. If it's selfpromotion what is questioned here, I think (and most people would agree) Google is by far a much better promotion tool. This software IS free and GPL, people wants to know it's history in english AND IN SPANISH, as well as "what it is" and how can I learn more about it and about others of the kind. Please KEEP it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.231.173.53 (talk) 19:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC) — 201.231.173.53 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Keep Why is the article marked for deletion and not marked for completition? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.216.229.49 (talk) 19:57, September 13, 2007 (UTC)
• Delete as non-notable. Google searching for "Post Revolution"+"content management" and "PostRev"+"content management" were both unhelpful in locating reliable sources to verify notability. As a comment on some arguments made above, number of users of a software package does not grant notability, and neither does the use of said software by a government body, unless that usage is significantly covered in multiple, independent sources. --Darkwind (talk) 20:27, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep If articles as who Voldermort is are relevant, the this shouls also be relevant.--Harry Potter (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmfnem (talk • contribs) 20:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:NOTE. The few sources provided are not reliable (blogs, social networks) nor independent of the subject, and do not provide significant coverage about it. And like Darkwind, I was unsuccessful locating valid sources (which is why there are so many comments about the existence of such sources but actually none have been provided, I suppose). Besides, the canvassing outside wikipedia is quite troubling. And I'm not even going to comment on the 'Voldemort' argument. Delete as non-notable. Raystorm (¿Sí?) 13:13, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

• Very weak keep: The site Post Revolution site have no english translation in it (unable to comprehend it), and its name is clashing with common phrase (making google search hard to find it), thus making it hard to verify the claims. Source code, documentation and the software itself is in spanish (or maybe some similar language), therefore it is hard for english user to use it or find any information about the software, as target audience is spanish-speaking people. There are some vulnerabilities [2] suggesting the software is at least somewhat used and examined. --Mpx 16:25, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

reply:The fact that there is no English content is a sign of its lack of notability. But in Spanish there is no much difference: there are some blogs (of course, this is a software for bloggers), a post in a social community. Of course the software exists and some people are using it, nobody doubts it, but it is not notable. There are no reliable, independent sources talking about it. Even its own creator, Fabiomb, is unable to find them. Maybe in the future, but the promotion must be done outside Wikipedia. Chabacano 22:27, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Delete: So even the author is unable to find any sources? I do not understand spanish, so I can't look for them myself, but if this is the case, I think perhaps delete would be better --Mpx 01:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Keep at this time. • Lawrence Cohen 01:52, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment: On what grounds? Raystorm (¿Sí?) 13:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.