Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

Welcome to the miscellaneous section
of the Wikipedia reference desk.

skip to bottom

Select a section:

• Computing
• Entertainment
• Humanities
• Language
• Mathematics
• Science
• Miscellaneous
• Archives

Want a faster answer?

Main page: Help searching Wikipedia

   

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
• Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
  • We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
  • We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
  • We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

Ready? Ask a new question!

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

See also:

• Teahouse
• Help desk
• Village pump
• Help manual

January 10

Something I heard...

I heard from a friend that there is a fish in a river in South America that when a person urinates in that river, the fish flies up and goes up through the genitals. What's this fish called, what river does it live in, and is there a way to get it out of the genitals if it sticks up there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirdrink13309622 (talk • contribs) 00:37, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

It's called the Candiru, it lives in the Amazon river, and I believe a big knife is involved in its removal. DuncanHill (talk) 00:42, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

From the page:Because of spines protruding from the fish, it is almost impossible to remove except through surgery.[8]. It doesnt say how big the knife is. I would have thought it might be a scalpel (or maybe a corkscrew). Ouch! anyway--TreeSmiler (talk) 03:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Otherwise known as the urethra fish. Helpful if you're ever trying to come up with animals for every letter of the alphabet. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:52, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Or the willy fish. DuncanHill (talk) 00:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Redmond O'Hanlon, in his book In Trouble Again describes adapting a cricket box and a tea strainer to make a protective device against this piscine menace. DuncanHill (talk) 03:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

This is quite possibly the most bizzare animal I have ever heard of. What sort of niche does this fill!?TheGreatZorko (talk) 09:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Err, it fills an anatomical niche <rim shot> --WebHamster 13:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

It fills the niche of scaring people who might otherwise pee in the pool.

Atlant (talk) 13:03, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I remember reading about this in Willard Price's Amazon Adventure many many moons ago. Sandman30s (talk) 14:11, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

To clarify the OP's phrasing, I don't believe anyone's claiming that the Candiru "flies up" if someone isn't submerged in the water at the time of micturation; rather, it swims in only if you're in the water. This myth is addressed in the Candiru article. jeffjon (talk) 15:13, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Our article also mentions that it's probably not attracted to urine. (Re the discussion above - I expect when your penis is being cut open the size of the knife is the least of your worries...) — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 20:00, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I rather think that if the creature is addicted to urine, it would quickly find its way to your bladder, if not your kidneys! OOOO! that hurts!--TreeSmiler (talk) 03:34, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

That’s one of the most amazing/bizarre/revolting things I’ve ever heard of! I’ve added it to our Wikipedia:Unusual articles. --S.dedalus (talk) 03:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

For these with a macabre interest in this check out the YouTube video. --S.dedalus (talk) 03:39, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Y'know, I'm not even *tempted* to click on that link now. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 11:17, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I read that the candiru is attracted to concentrations of urea which are produced by water flow through fish gills. So the candiru is trying to lodge itself in the gills of fish.Polypipe Wrangler (talk) 01:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The fish features in the novel 'A History of the World in 10 1/2 chapters' by Julian Barnes. Worth reading

Saddest movie...EVER!

What is the saddest, most heart-wrenching movie you've ever seen? I'm looking for some real tear-jerkers here. Thanks for all of the help! --71.98.26.188 (talk) 01:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Sicko^{[citation needed]} is a sad movie, though probably not^{[citation needed]} the saddest movie ever. Warning: This movie, like most good documentaries, is biased^{[citation needed]}.Kushal^t 01:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not literally looking for the absolute saddest movie ever (subjective and impossible to find, anyways), but rather just some real tear-jerkers that'll make you cry. Thanks for the suggestion. That movie, like most movies by Mikey boy, is VERY biased. --71.98.26.188 (talk) 02:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The Reference Desk is not really a place for these kinds of questions. You should just Google "saddest movie ever" and look at what you find. It'll be a lot more helpful, I think. — Kieff | Talk 02:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Why not? But I already tried googling it and I thought that instead of sifting through the massive piles of worthless forums and junk I'd just go straight to the source -- the fairly reliable, kind, insightful, and movie-watching people who frequent the Ref Desks and have excellent tastes in cinematics. So thank you for your comment, have you seen any good movies lately? --71.98.26.188 (talk) 02:26, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I find this question (and others that demand subjective rather than factual answers) is perfectly acceptable here. --Taraborn (talk) 08:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Titanic is very sad. I mean, the whole love story, plus the ship sinking. You'll definetly think its sad, that is, if you have a soul. Grango242 (talk) 02:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

What, it sinks?!? Spoiler! :P FiggyBee (talk) 02:55, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

My sister tells of coming out of the movie theater after watching Romeo+Juliet and overhearing a couple of high school girls discussing it. One of them sniffed tearily "I can't believe they died". --Trovatore (talk) 02:59, 10 January 2008 (UTC) Or did I tell that story to my sister, having heard it from someone else? Can't remember now.

Haha, ZOFMG! Romeo and Juliet die at the end? I totally wasn't expecting that even though it says it straight out in the first scene of the first act or something like that. But yeah I've seen the Titanic, and Romeo + Juliet (I honestly didn't think it was very sad). Let's see...I think I recall that One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest was a good, sad movie.

Btw - I should probably elaborate: I'm looking for sad movies that have been pretty well received by critics. I don't care if they bombed in the box office or if they are an indie film, but I want a nice sad flick that's really good to watch. Thank you for your suggestions so far. --71.98.26.188 (talk) 04:29, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, for current/recent releases, Lust, Caution struck me as sad, though not in the manipulative way associated with the term "tearjerker". Fast Times at Ridgemont High, though funny, left me deeply depressed; I don't know whether that was what the filmmakers were going for or not. It was a sadness without catharsis, which may not be what you're looking for.

The other night I saw an episode of The Twilight Zone that might fill the bill -- it was the one where the Mexican boy is about to be hanged and his father buys "magic dust" from the town scumbag to save him. --Trovatore (talk) 04:37, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Definitely Stroszek. Just ask Ian Curtis.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 04:52, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Love Story (1970 film). --Richardrj ^{talk email} 05:08, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Schindler's List is the saddest movie I've ever seen (at least, it is the only movie where I have ever bawled uncontrollably). Titanic was definitely not sad...for some reason me and a bunch of my 17-year-old friends saw that in the theatre and burst out laughing at a particularly sad part when people are falling off the vertically-tipped sinking boat (one guy hits the propellor! I mean, come on!) Adam Bishop (talk) 08:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Not a movie but - Jurassic Bark. I nearly cried. The Snowman when he melted at the end. I cried, but I was about nine years old. Lanfear's Bane | t 09:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Grave of the Fireflies, Ikiru, and Late Spring are my three must-see tearjerkers. It's just coincidence that they're all Japanese. Also La Strada, Bicycle Thieves, The Passion of Joan of Arc, Harold and Maude. -- BenRG (talk) 09:46, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

This might do better on the Entertainment reference desk. But since it's here, Charly (the movie made from Flowers for Algernon) is a pretty sad movie.

Atlant (talk) 13:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The Green Mile has to be right up there with the tear-jerkers even though it isn't billed as such. --WebHamster 13:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

You want melodramatic tear-jerkers, 3 hours at a time, check out every second movie from Bollywood! Sandman30s (talk) 14:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Caseys Gift (the love of a child) is pretty sad, kid dies in neighboures pool, very sad indeed. pretty old though —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.151.98 (talk) 20:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Old Yeller stands out in my memory. I was about 8 when I saw it. -- Arwel (talk) 16:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I_am_Sam is pretty sad (but it's the proper cinematic experience where there's the happy ending and you come out feeling "moved"), but I'm sure there are sadder movies. Rfwoolf (talk) 20:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The Elephant Man gets me every time; a couple of scenes do, anyway. --Milkbreath (talk) 20:38, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

How about... Sidewalks of New York is quite tear-jerking at times. It depends on what 'gets you'. If it is ultimate sadness, or lost-love, or love-found, or someone who misses out on what they want. That sort of thing. I would include in my list of favourite 'emotion producing' movies...The Bicentennial Man, You've Got Mail, When Harry Met Sally, Groundhog Day (in parts), Punch Drunk Love and many others I cannot think of now. Personally i'm not a fan of the really maudlin movies which are over-dramatic. I prefer a bit of balance between happiness, connection with the character, then rooting for them to get what they want (rather than just awful tragedies happening to people). ny156uk (talk) 21:52, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I found Dancer in the Dark depressing to the point that I disliked it. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 22:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you all so much for your suggestions! They're much appreciated. And I was considering asking this on the entertainment desk, but nobody goes there =P. Any more ideas? Thanks again. --71.98.13.166 (talk) 23:09, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Brokeback Mountain was the last film that had me crying like a girl sniffling. My Own Private Idaho, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon & Hard Core Logo were good for that too. My sister still tears up at the mention of All Dogs Go to Heaven, nearly 20 years after seeing it.--Kateshortforbob 23:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Since you asked nicely...I liked Big Daddy, Goodbye Mr Chips the version with Martin Clunes in. It's very good, it's a made for tv film though. Also Serendipity is great, and I love Lost in Translation probably more than any movie made in the past 20 years - kinda amazed I forgot about it in my original list. ny156uk (talk) 23:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The episode of Futurama with Fry's dog is infamously the saddest TV episode ever spawned. Watch that, it's only half an hour long. --f f r o t h 02:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

My two saddest movies are both black-and-white 1950s films made from Terence Rattigan plays: The Browning Version (1951; the later versions are ok but just not in the same class); and Separate Tables (1958), which won David Niven a Best Actor Oscar. Another real tear-jerker for me - but not a sad film at all, in fact one of abundant hope and joy - is Field of Dreams. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:34, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Subjective question or not, you guys are all wrong. The saddest movie is Awakenings. And when you're done bawling at the end of the movie, reflect that it is based on a true story and start crying again... Matt Deres (talk) 21:29, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Any existentialist outcome gets me down so I vote for Lost in Translation as a dipper, but Arwel (talk) might like this from Steven Spielberg who votes for Bambi here[1]. That shot sounds like it echoes through history! Julia Rossi (talk) 09:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

There is a couple parts in World Trade Center that had me welling up, Ladder 49 and Click are also very sad movies. 2deuce2 (talk) 19:54, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Dogville and Dirty Pretty Things were both extremely depressing (and the latter very good, the first not so much). I second Field of Dreams as a more uplifting kind of tearjerker, and would suggest Big Fish and In America as being in that category as well. -Elmer Clark (talk) 02:41, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

TDSB Transportation

Hi there, I want to know something. My have friends who live in Toronto and they sons and daughters. My #1 friend has one son and one daughter. Both of them graduated from Crescent Town PS and my #2 friend's son and daughter graduated from Secord PS and they are currently studying at D.A. Morrison Middle School and this their final year (gr.8). After that, #1 friend's son wants to go to Easy York Collegiate Institute and the daughter wants to go to Danforth C & TI. Same thing with #2 friend's children. They are going to these schools because of the TDSB street guide. If the son of #1 friend is going to East York C.I., then which transportation does have to take? What about the daughter? Which transportation does she take when going to Danforth C & TI? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Don Mustafa (talk • contribs) 02:39, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

TDSB Transportation 2

Which type of transportation does the students of Presteign Heights, Victoria Park, Selwyn and George Webster, elementary school take to go to George A. Brown middle school? and after that, how about East York C.I. and Danforth C & TI?

For those who may be mystified, this would be in Toronto. As to the question, I can't say. --Anonymous, 05:43 UTC, January 10.

For both questions, if you contact the school board, the individual schools, or the TTC, you will probably have an easier time finding answers. Adam Bishop (talk) 08:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Stock Information Offine

There are many websites out there that offer information regarding stocks on the Toronto Stock Exchange, NASDAQ, and NYSE. For example Google Finance, Yahoo Finance etc.

I was wondering in regards with getting all the information of the stocks offline including p/e etc. I have MS Office and XP.

What would be the best way for me to go around doing that?

Thanks.

No response at the computer desk inclined me to post the question here

--Obsolete.fax (talk) 10:59, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't quite understand how you mean by getting the information offline? Surely once the stock information is offline it can no longer be updated and is thus useless? Or do you mean offline as in not using a web browser? EDIT: Does your version of Office come with Microsoft Money? It seems this would most likely do what you want, although having never used it I cannot tell you how

EDIT EDIT: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel/HA010346091033.aspx may be helpful in doing what you want.TheGreatZorko (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Blah! It's not letting me download the MSN MoneyCentral Stock Quotes excel add-in software. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=485FCCD8-9305-4535-B939-3BF0A740A9B1

Now I need to go hunting for more product keys for Office XP! :) --Obsolete.fax (talk) 11:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

www.iii.co.uk is a uk site that gets you the information you require in a copy/pasteable format for excel. Having the data off-line is extremely useful as it allows you to developed advanced filters, to track information that you want to return to, to build your own charts/things like that. Rather than relying on the more 'industry standard' filters/charts that the websites tend to produce. What you're looking for is something with a CSV style output. It shouldn't be too hard to find one of the many online stock-brokers that will provide info on the constituents of the above stock exchanges. ny156uk (talk) 21:42, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Where in the www.iii.co.uk website can I get the information in copy/pastable format? --Obsolete.fax (talk) 11:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Whom is more famious?

Whom is more famious, Elvis or G W Bush? Weasly (talk) 13:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

It depends. George W. Bush is probably more infamous, especially to modern-day persons, but Elvis will always be known as the King. So, I suppose it depends on your definition of famous, as well as what field of fame are you speaking of; political or general. EWHS (talk) 13:35, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

"Elvis" gets 65,100,100 Google hits, while "G W Bush" only gets 1,840,000. Edison (talk) 13:37, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

And "George Bush" gets 17,000,000 while "George W Bush" gets 11,000,000. My money is on Elvis. People with little access to education are more likely to have heard of him.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:44, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The only problem I have with that, Shantavira, is that in the current situation, people in wartorn areas in the middle east (e.g. small, impoverished, and uneducated families in Iraq) might be more likely to know about George W. Bush, the "hated American President," rather than Elvis. And when searching "George Bush" rather than "George W. Bush," I'm am willing to guess that the majority of those articles are about George W. Bush. EWHS (talk) 20:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Even if George W. Bush is more discussed at the moment, and I'm not sure that he is, in 20 or 30 years, he will be largely (fortunately) forgotten outside of history books, while Elvis will probably retain popular appeal, only somewhat diminished by the passing of a generation. Marco polo (talk) 21:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know any singers from earlier than the 1940s, but I know plenty of presidents.. --f f r o t h 02:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

You don't know Enrico Caruso? --Trovatore (talk) 07:30, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The current leader of the strongest nation in the world vs one of the biggest name singers in history...I would say entertainment will trump politician every day of the week. As for G W Bush, his presidency has had some major events so his name is likely to be one of the more famous presidents of modern times. History will be kinder to him than the current day (it almost always is), but I would be amazed if he was more famous than Elvis, who, lets face it, was an icon of an era - and not only any era, the era of tv-for-the-masses and the first real music-aimed-at-youth. ny156uk (talk) 21:39, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not so sure about the entertainer trumping a politician every time...think about Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden; their very famous/infamous (depending on what part of the world you live in) and on a worldwide scale, are probably better known than Elvis. Maybe in a few decades they will fade into obscurity (more or less), but who knows? --71.98.13.166 (talk) 23:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Remember the fuss caused when John Lennon said that the Beatles were "bigger than Jesus". It all depends on what you mean by famous, popular, big, important, etc. BrainyBabe (talk) 13:40, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

It's "who is more famous", not "whom". "Whom" is the adjective form. It's like saying "Me am more famous than you". JIP | Talk 12:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Objective, not adjective. Otherwise, yes. :) FiggyBee (talk) 15:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

One indication of a person's fame, or pervasive influence, in a society is if there begin to be stories told of people seeing the person after they've died. There are a number of such instances throughout history where this has taken place, including Alexander I of Russia, Saint Francis of Assisi, and perhaps Jesus. Whenever you start hearing multiple stories of people seeing a famous person after he or she has died, it is a good indication that the person has acheived a status of significant cultural value in that society. So, although George W. Bush has not died yet, it is probably safe to assume that not too many people will start seeing him after he's passed on. However, Elvis, on the other hand, has been "seen" by quite a number of people since his death, indicating that he has acheived a significant cultural status. It could be said that Elvis has become a Jungian archetype, or in the mythological sense, a classic "hero" such as the Greek Jason or Odysseus, both of whom may have been actual real people. Because of this, I would say that Elvis is most definitely the one who is the most famous - especially after some time has passed and George W. Bush will be just another US President that school kids will have to memorize. -- Saukkomies 11:17, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Who's George Bush?

Connecting to LimeWire

I can download, install, and open LimeWire, but I'm unable to connect to the network. I'm positive that the school is somehow blocking programs from connecting to outside networks. I used to be able to connect, but then coming back from a break, after considerable work on the proxy, computers, etc., I'm not able to. Even after my countless 1st periods spent trying to figure out how they are doing it using command prompt, I'm still not able to find it. So, I need two things: 1- How do I enable Control Panel, using Command Prompt, on a computer that has it disabled. (I can use administrative powers if necessary) 2- How can I stop whatever is blocking LimeWire from connecting from doing exactly that?

(Note: I've checked the bylaws, and using command prompt to run and alter programs that aren't specifically designated for education purposes (e.g. LimeWire) isn't forbidden, so I'm completely legal.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by EWHS (talk • contribs) 13:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Some 1 help this guy i could do with limewire at work!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 13:38, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

You probably go to crooms, lol

Check out this google search and click the second link. When i post the link directly it doesn't work. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=control+panel+command--Dlo2012 (talk) 14:22, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I've already checked this links (I actually follow Desk advice and research before asking) and I recieved the message that "Control Panel has been disabled on this computer." I need to figure out how to enable Control Panel, rather than run it. Anyone else? —Preceding unsigned comment added by EWHS (talk • contribs) 20:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I can't remember exactly where it is but if you go to Start -> Run -> Type "Gpedit.msc" you will find the option to enable it in there somewhere, I vaguely remember "Administrative Templates -> Control Panel" --WebHamster 21:13, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Shareaza connects to the Limewire network. --Obsolete.fax (talk) 11:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

It seems that none of the settings under Control Panel are configured according to the gpedit.msc command (note: I accessed the gpedit screen by typing in gpedit.msc in the command prompt, rather than the "run" option, for the run command is also taken off the computer). Is there any other way that the school could be blocking LimeWire? That being said, what is the equivalent of the "run" button in Command Prompt? I could actually open Control Panel at that point and try adding LimeWire to the hidden proxy's "accept" list.

It sounds like group policies are set up at a domain level rather than on individual computers. The "run" option is just a cmd without the command prompt box appearing. If I were the systems admin I'd deny access to Limewire via port filtering in the network firewall. Depending on the sophistication of the system and the admin staff packet sniffing could also be an alterenative. A sysamin who disallows access to places via the use of a local HOSTS files shouldn't be in the job. --WebHamster 15:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Book Collection Advice

I need some advice on what to do with a book collection.

My grandfather read during his life a huge amount of books and kept a few of them. After he died almost 40 years ago, my grandmother and after her my mother has kept the book collection together. A collection of over 2000 books on a wide range of topics economics, geography, art and the books by Voltaire, Sartre. And in 4 different languages.

The idea is to keep the collection together, but that requires plenty of space, which I don't have. I've heard you can donate book collections to libraries. Does anyone know anything about this or can point me in the right direction? AlmostCrimes (talk) 13:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it would be helpful if you could tell us in which country you live so that locals might feel more confident in offering help. Richard Avery (talk) 14:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you might want to go to your local librarian and ask--Dlo2012 (talk) 14:26, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Good advice. First thing I'd do is trot down do my local library and ask whether they want any books. They'd direct me to where I should go. I saw this done a few times. If this particular branch will not be able to use the books you give them, they will distribute them among other branches of the city/province/whatever library. --Ouro (blah blah) 20:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd agree with the library suggestion, or you can see if there are any second-hand bookshops around that might want them (and you could get some credit for more books in return!). You'd probably also want to do just a little research, if any of the books looks like it may be valuable (e.g. a first edition of a popular title), as there would probably be some collectors interested in them. Finally, you could try to become BookCrossing's most prolific contributor. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 22:36, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Please note that most libraries aren't archives. That is, although the library may be happy to accept your donation, they won't necessarily agree to keep the collection together. I know that the modus operandi for my local public library is to sell donated books (with profits going to the library) rather than placing them in the collection -- even if they don't have a copy of the donated book. Even when a book is added to the collection, there is no guarantee it will stay there. They occasionally do purges where infrequently borrowed or worn books are removed from the collection and sold at the booksale (Foreign language books would likely not last very long). If your intention is to keep the collection together, you would be well advised to talk to the library about what they would do with the book. Also be aware that things may change in 5-10 years when new management takes over. A better bet than the public library may be a college or university library. A university library, especially a small, poorly funded one, would likely be happy to receive a collection of scholarly books, and would be less likely to sell poorly-used books, favoring instead to keep them for the rare student who would need them for reference. But again, talk to the librarians to see what they would intend to do with your donation. (As a postscript, note that an additional monitory donation for collection maintainence would likely assist in keeping the collection together longer. If you can get them to name the collection ("The Richard P. Cries Book Collection"), that would further help.) -- 128.104.112.236 (talk) 23:44, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Distributed Proofreaders is always looking for new out of copyright books if you wanted to donate them so that they are available for the entire world. 70.162.25.53 (talk) 01:13, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

A school may want them,given the shortage of money in education anywhere.They have libraries,the collection would be kept together and maybe they would memorialise your father in some way through them.hotclaws 07:46, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Second-hand booksellers are always looking for merchandise, although there is no guarantee that the books you describe will be very saleable. Schools, like libraries, would probably just sell off the books; they have no reason to keep them together, since many will be duplicates or not needed. There is no practical way to keep this collection together as a collection, unless you want to endow a fund to preserve it as a mini-archive; and that ain't cheap. --Orange Mike | Talk 15:03, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I am a librarian, and have over the course of my professional experience, been involved in several cases that precisely duplicate what you are describing here. Someone dies, leaving a very substantial book collection, and the heirs contact a library with the proposal to donate the material. Now, you might believe that such a thing would be viewed as a windfall by a library, however such is not necessarily the case. It takes a LOT of labor. First, professional librarians have to be able to go throught the entire collection and determine whether the books are needed for the collection. As has been mentioned, not all books are going to be needed. If the library accepts a book that is not going to be needed or used by its patrons, it is actually taking away valuable resources from the library by requiring time put in by the staff to process the book and catalog it, as well as it taking up valuable space on the shelves of the library that could be used to hold books that would be more useful to the collection. My advice is don't naturally assume that the librarians are going to jump at the chance to accept this gift - it DOES NOT come with no strings attached because by accepting these books the library basically is going to have to spend time and resources that it may not have. It very well might be that some of the books may be valued, but if you wish to keep the collection intact, don't expect it to stay so if you donate it.

An exception to this is if the collection was of a particular subject, and was had good "depth" to it. For instance, if the collection focused on (say) photography, or mining engineering, or bird biology, etc. Then you may have more success with keeping the collection intact if it was donated to a library. Otherwise, what you'll end up finding is that the librarians will go through the collection, grabbing all the best and most valuable books, and leaving you with the junk, which they'll most likely either sell in one of their book sales, or throw into the recycle bin to be converted into paper pulp (gasp!).

You might ask yourself why you want the collection to remain intact. If it is to honor your departed grandfather's memory, perhaps it would be best to try to keep the collection within the family somehow. Otherwise, I'd say you're going to have a very hard time trying to find some place that would keep it intact.

One suggestion is to find a library in some developing country that really needs to expand its collection. You could offer to pay the shipping costs to send all the books to some library in Africa, Asia, etc. This would probably be the best bet to insure the collection stayed intact, and might even go as far as having the collection named for your grandfather. But if you live in a post-industrial country such as the US, it's going to be hard to find a library that will want to accept the whole collection and keep it intact. -- Saukkomies 11:34, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Standard subject descriptors for tagging IT-related documents

Are there any freely available classification schemes that provide standardized subject descriptors for tagging information technology-related documents? --64.236.170.228 (talk) 16:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether you can get this for free or not, but try looking in the ISO (International Organization for Standardization) site for this. I'm sure that they have a standard for what you're wanting. -- Saukkomies 11:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

DVD Player

Hi, I just bought a DVD from ENgland and it won't allow me to play it in my DVD player, it says something about region. What kind of a DVD player will read and play this DVD player, is it available in the States? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.120.71.118 (talk) 18:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

For background, you can read DVD region code, and the links from that article. More specific to your current problem, you would need a "region free" or "multi-region" DVD player. These can be found in the US with some searching, or you may be able to find instructions on the web for a simple way to convert your player to be region-free. Personally, I purchased a Philips brand player at Circuit City and pressed some keys on the remote and now I can play all of my ZTT DVDs. --LarryMac | Talk 19:03, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The other thing to be aware of is the TV standard. US uses NTSC wheres the UK uses PAL50. You will need a TV that will accept multistandard formats or will accept a raw RGB or component signal. --WebHamster 20:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The "secret remote control codes" that unlock multi-region usually enable PAL/NTSC as well. I am fairly sure that players specifically sold as multi-region also have this capability. --LarryMac | Talk 21:09, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

They can't change the settings for the TV, only if the DVD player will output the relevant standard. This is far easier outside "Fortress America". Most machines in the US can't be converted by using cheat codes. --WebHamster 21:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

And yet the last two DVD players I've purchased have been easily modified to multi-region and play Region 1 / PAL discs on my NTSC TVs with no problem. --LarryMac | Talk 21:23, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Presumably you researched the purchase first? My experience of the average American is that they have no idea that there is such a thing as region coding much less differing TV standards. These people will go out to Target, WalMart or wherever and buy a generic DVD player this isn't convertable. There are some makes such as Sony who deliberately make theirs non-convertable (or at least they used to). Admittedly the cheaper Chinese made brands do tend to be hackable primarily to make it easier for the manufacturer to make one machine that can be sold all over the world. It's rarely a facility that is there for the consumer's benefit. In the UK and Europe multi-region is freely available everywhere, by all accounts this is not the case in the US. --WebHamster 21:46, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Which I think I covered by saying "These can be found in the US with some searching, or you may be able to find instructions on the web for a simple way to convert your player to be region-free." And frankly, the "generic" players from the discount stores are the ones most likely to be modifiable. --LarryMac | Talk 14:09, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The point being that most people in the US don't know, don't care and don't understand the difference. The other thing to beware of is that a lot of DVD players in the US don't have the range of outputs that European and RotW devices have due to their lack of SCART sockets. Most US players I've seen have S-video, composite and if they're really lucky component outputs. It's not called Fortress America for no reason --WebHamster 15:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Meaning of "DZ" in Chinese/Taiwanese/Asian products

This may seem like a very weird question...
I'm busy looking at various manufacturers of vacuuming machines. Almost all of them are from China, and although all of the machines have different "manufacturers", the model numbers are strikingly similar:
(Here are the model numbers from 7 different manufacturers):

• DZ600/2S
• DZD-400/S
• DZQ-400B
• DZD-500S VA-500s VAQ-400
• DZ-300Z DZ-400Z DZ'-500Z
• HD-DZ-400C
• DZQ400A

What's also odd is if you do a google search for "DZ series" you will get a whole lot of part numbers across various different industries that all start with "DZ"
But what could it mean? Does it denote a standard? A Manufacturer?
Other examples are screw driver sets beginning with "DZ"
Here is the "Might USA Inc." brands of "Bridge Machines": DZ-3240 DZ-4240 DZ-5240 DZ-6240
Hitachi has a whole series of camcorders that start with "DZ"
There's a "DZ" series of breaks.

Any idea what this could mean?
I hope you don't mind me also posting this question in the Language section. I will try remove one posting once I have an answer
Rfwoolf (talk) 19:41, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Housecleaner Etiquette

So I'm hiring a housecleaner for the first time to tidy up my home since my wife and I work and our children are doing the opposite of cleaning. How picked up does my house need to be prior to a housecleaner's visit? thank you. Beekone (talk) 19:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC) I would leave yr house the way it is that way the cleaner knows exactly what they are getting.--Harliquin (talk) 20:27, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

As a general rule, cleaners clean they do not tidy. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 20:47, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Right. During my starving student days, I briefly worked as a housecleaner. My job was basically to vacuum, dust, and scrub kitchens and bathrooms, maybe wash dishes. Most clients were reasonably tidy. I had one who was an absolute slob. In order to vacuum, I had to pick trash and dirty clothes off the floor. Since I was never told and didn't know where the dirty clothes should go, I just put them in a neat pile in the corner of the room. I can imagine that kids leave toys lying around the floor. If you want the housecleaner to pick these up (as well as dirty laundry or trash) you should discuss that with the cleaner and instruct the cleaner where to put these things. It would be unfair to ask the cleaner to estimate the cost of cleaning without clarifying this. Marco polo (talk) 21:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

There are different levels of etiquette that I've seen. I've known people to sweep the floor so that the cleaner isn't embarrassed to come in, and others to make the cleaner work around whatever happens to be left around. Like Theresa Knott's contribution, the cleaning is the important bit of the role of the cleaner, rather than the tidying. You will probably find that most cleaners will want to discuss their limits before you sign them up (some may do laundry, other may not). Few will agree to general tidying, partly due to the risk of handling personal objects and being accused of damaging/stealing them. If you hire through a cleaning company, they will have their guidelines and limitations set out clearly in their agreement statement. Steewi (talk) 05:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Trustee Savings Bank

I have a 1966 london trustee savings book, does anyone know who deals with these books now--Harliquin (talk) 19:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Lloyds TSB are the bank of which Trustee savings now forms a part. SaundersW (talk) 20:00, 10 January 2008 (UTC) Thank u so much, i will now take the book into them and see if they will update it.The book dates back to 1966 and has 55pence in it , it will be intresting to see wot intrest will be put on it ,x —Preceding unsigned comment added by Harliquin (talk • contribs) 20:21, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, tell us when you find out! --Ouro (blah blah) 20:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I assume the book was used for a few years after 1966, since "55 pence" is not the normal way to describe an amount in pre-decimal British money. Still, the book was presumably unused for many years. I think it's true in both Canada and the US that the bank would have closed the account for inactivity, and with only a small balance, they would have retained it. Or else maybe the accountholder reported the book lost and got a new one and went on using the account, in which case there is nothing to update into the old book. Still, it will be interesting to hear what happens, if Harliquin will tell us. Somewhat to my surprise, Wikipedia seems to have no article on dormant or inactive bank accounts. --Anonymous, 21:29 UTC, January 10, 2008.

Hmm, by an odd coincidence, here's a similar case in the news, but involving rather a larger amount of money! Credit goes to Snopes for calling attention to it. --Anonymous, 00:27 UTC, January 12.

Here is a link to information about how to reclaim funds held in a dormant account in Britain. [2]. DuncanHill (talk) 00:32, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

geography

What is the only city in the united states thats not in a state? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onstedmccarter (talk • contribs) 21:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Washington, DC. --Anonymous, 21:30 UTC, January 10, 2008.

Ah, a flawed question! Let's not forget San Juan, Puerto Rico or Charlotte Amalie, United States Virgin Islands (or far too many others to mention). All in the US! None in states! — Lomn 21:34, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The first sentence in the article United States seems to conflict with that assertion. William Avery (talk) 21:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

And the closing sentence of the lede confirms it. Don't read too much into a first sentence good-enough-for-most-answers simplification. Alternatively, what sovereign state (geopolitical sense, not Maryland sense) are those cities part of if not the US? — Lomn 15:56, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Unincorporated territories of the United States may be under the jurisdiction of the US government, but are not necessarily part of the US, or as that article says, they are "not part of the United States proper". Though the article Insular area, says that their goods can be labelled "Made in the USA". Was the Philippine Islands from 1902 to 1935 part of the US? Cuba? No more, I think, than Hong Kong was ever part of the UK, or a sovereign state of its own. From that example it's clear your premise that all cities must be located in a sovereign state is incorrect. William Avery (talk) 21:36, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

wisdom teeth

I was just wondering how people in the past would deal with their wisdom teeth. I know that most people now can just have surgery and take out the teeth if it doesn't fit in their mouths, but what did people do back then to solve this problem?--Dlo2012 (talk) 21:52, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe until fairly recently (the past couple of decades), people just let them stay in. Having great teeth wasn't a big concern (think of stereotypical early 20th century British people) and malocclusion wasn't a big deal. Tooth aches are another story though... --71.98.13.166 (talk) 22:57, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

they probably died before their wisdom teeth came through--TreeSmiler (talk) 03:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Dentists often take wisdom teeth out because they may push the other teeth crooked so it's aesthetic.It can be painful or ache somewhat occasionally while this happens but it's not bad really.(I speak from personal experience as mine were not removed and occasionally were a bit sore or achey but no real problem.)If you have teeth missing,the wisdom teeth have gaps to push into.In the "olden days" laudenum and other opiates were freely available and are great for toothache.hotclaws 07:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ancient surgeries aren't uncommon at all. In fact, as early as 14 AD (if not earlier), ancient Romans were performing cataract surgery, successfully. I'll research a bit more to see if anything about wisdom teeth pops up. (To help, is there a specific name for the wisdom teeth procedure?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by EWHS (talk • contribs) 13:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

If they treated them at all, it'd've probably been a simple tooth pulling (hmm, that should at least be a redirect to Dentistry), either under laudanum or simple alcohol, and probably performed by a butcher. I'd concur with the above that they'd've in all likelyhood be left untreated, though. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 16:31, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be performed by a barber? Rmhermen (talk) 17:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Whoops, yep. Not sure why I said butcher there :) GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 18:20, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Certified Nursing Assistants in Europe

For both personal interest and the purpose to expand the italian entry it:Operatore socio-sanitario, i'm looking for this profession in other European Countries. I'm almost sure that the English equivalent is Certified Nursing Assistant, but I'd like to receive a confirmation. What about Spain, France, etc.? Can you address me to the right wiki entries? thanks Giorgian (talk) 22:11, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

In the UK the personnel who provide basic healthcare under the supervision of a Registered Nurse may have achieved a level on the National Vocational Qualification (NVQ) scheme. Although this is not obligatory. I am not aware of any of these type of workers being called a "Certified Care Assistant" They usually have a title reflecting their role but this will vary slightly depending on their employer. Their title will be something similar to 'Care Assistant', 'Nursing Assistant' or Nursing Auxiliary'. Sometimes the word 'Senior' is added to the title to indicate that they may have a qualification or significant experience. The entry in Wikipedia for Certified Nursing Assistant is not entirely applicable to the UK National Health Service or private healthcare provision in the UK. Richard Avery (talk) 08:32, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

January 11

food imports restrictions + health

My cambodian roommate just got back from christmas break, and he brought with him 3 HUGE plates of seafood. He's sleeping and they're just sitting there on his desk- a 1' high heaping pile of dry tuna, a 1' high heaping pile of shrimp, and a 1' high heaping stack of whole, dead fish that have been smoked but they're staring at me right now. My question is: how didn't they stop him at customs?! I thought you weren't supposed to bring parasite-ridden seafood from third-world hellholes. Also, they're REALLY big piles and they'll be there for awhile. Please tell me A) I won't get sick from breathing tuna powder, which has made the room cloudy. B) It will go bad so he will have to throw it out. And C) that I'll eventually get used to this smell, which I'm convinced will never leave my clothes unless I burn them. --f f r o t h 02:05, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

According to the US Customs and Border Protection website: "Personal quantities of seafood not intended for commercial consumption are not subject to approval by the Food and Drug Administration. Most personal quantities of seafood are admissible, with the exception of endangered species which are subject to restrictions by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service." (as an aside, I also found out that it is illegal to carry a switchblade into the USA unless you only have one arm!) Therefore your roommate's fish stash is probably perfectly legal. As for questions, A-C. Who knows? Perhaps you could ask your roommate to store the fish somewhere more suitable. Rockpocket 02:20, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Grr, ok. He barely speaks english and it's pretty awkward so I try not to talk to him.. but this is really just too much. My pillow is going to smell like a giant shrimp! --f f r o t h 02:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Buy him some Tupperware. DuncanHill (talk) 03:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a sec, you got a roommate you don't speak with? I envy those piles of seafood. Your clothes will probably not smell bad, and you won't get sick from being in the same room with that, don't worry. Cheers, Ouro (blah blah) 07:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Internet Explorer

I have a question about my internet explorer. Sometimes when i go on internet explorer, it will just close all of a sudden. I don't think i have any viruses or anything, but it has been doing this for a while. Does anybody know what it is?--Dlo2012 (talk) 02:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Viruses or something? Try Mozilla Firefox --f f r o t h 02:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Get rid of IE and change to Mozilla Firefox-- its much faster and more reliable.--TreeSmiler (talk) 03:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Also with firefox you can get add ons for wikipedia like twinkle that wont work in IE. And firefox FTW BonesBrigade 03:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

This question fits better to the Computing desk. --Taraborn (talk) 11:32, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Could be a popup blocker e.g. Google toolbar, etc. 207.148.157.228 (talk) 19:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

You could easily have a virus or something and not know. Many do almost nothing. *Max* (talk) 01:23, 16 January 2008 (UTC).

Australian Senator being Prime Minister?

Has a Senator ever become Prime Minister of Australia? Or has the opposition ever made its party leader (the leader of the opposition) a Senator (as opposed to a Member of the House of Representatives)? (For example, the Greens leader Bob Brown is a Senator, so say if the Greens formed a majority in the lower house, would that make Bob Brown Prime Minister?) How would the House of Representatives be conducted then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.208.109.169 (talk) 04:40, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Senator John Gorton was appointed Prime Minister on 10 January 1968, but the circumstances were extremely unusual. The Prime Minister Harold Holt drowned on 17 December 1967 and his body was never recovered. He was declared "presumed dead" on 19 December, and so another PM had to be appointed. It was assumed that his deputy William McMahon would be the obvious choice. But John McEwen, the leader of the Country Party, the minor party in the Liberal-Country party coalition, announced that he would refuse to continue the coalition if McMahon were the Liberal leader and PM. The Governor-General Lord Casey commissioned McEwen as an interim Prime Minister until such time as the Liberals could choose a new leader. On 9 January they chose Gorton, who was a Senator, but on the understanding that he would resign from the Senate and contest the by-election for the House of Representatives seat left vacant by Holt's presumed death. He did, and won it handsomely. Prior to the by-election, Gorton had resigned from the Senate as he was required to do under the Constitution. So, after having been PM as a Senator for a couple of weeks, he continued as PM for a couple of more weeks without being a member of Parliament at all (which is permitted by the Consititution up to 3 months), then continued as PM as a member of the House of Reps.

The reason the PM always sits in the House of Reps - barring the extraordinary circumstances outlined above - is that the government depends for its existence on money bills being supported by the Parliament, and money bills can only be originated in the House of Representatives. The government is always formed by a party or coalition commanding a majority in the lower house, no matter what the numbers might be in the Senate (which is often hostile to the government of the day). That said, there's nothing in the Constitution to require this, but it's a convention adopted by all modern-day bicameral Westminster parliaments. And it's a very sensible convention, because it would make no sense for a majority in the lower house to be led by a person who sat as a member of another chamber (despite ministers being drawn from both chambers). (The UK Prime Minister was often a member of the House of Lords in days gone by, but that hasn't been the case for over a century.) During the Holt-McEwen-McMahon-Gorton affair, the Parliament wasn't sitting, so it was never tested how the arrangement might have worked on a parliamentary basis. By the time the Parliament sat, Gorton had joined the lower house.

If the Greens formed a majority in the lower house, the Greens leader in that house would almost certainly be Prime Minister, not anyone in the Senate, including Bob Brown. They don't have a leader in the lower house at the moment, bectause they don't have any members in that house (there's only ever been one, to date). Bob Brown is parliamentary leader of the Greens overall, which would include any Greens members in the House of Reps, if there were any. That's until such time as they gained 5 lower house members, which would give them "party status" in that house, and they would then elect a lower house party leader. Brown would then become the Greens' leader in the Senate only. The only way Bob Brown could become PM is to get elected to a lower house seat. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Excellent answers and well explained, thank you very much Jack :) 203.208.109.169 (talk) 07:50, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

You're most welcome. Drop by anytime. -- JackofOz (talk) 09:01, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Championship Belts

In the UFC, boxing etc. where a belt is the prize, do they have 1 belt that changes hands or does each champion receive one and keep it when they lose ?

Does anyone know how much a belt costs in say the UFC? Thanks, Killa Klown (talk) 05:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I dont know about boxing, but Im pretty sure the UFC beltholders get their own belt to keep, forever. I recently read about a past heavyweight beltholder, Ricco Rodriguez who attempted to auction off his belt for around 20 to 30k, [[3]]. 2deuce2 (talk) 20:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

getting drunk faster?

Yes, this is a serious question. I was just reading the article alcohol by volume, and it stated that beer has 3-12 % alcohol by volume, whereas wine has 6-18 % abv. Does that mean that a person gets drunk at a quicker rate by drinking wine than they do beer? for example, suppose you drink 20 ml of beer versus 20 ml of wine. Which gives the greater effects? I just don't understand what the article means.76.216.113.87 (talk) 06:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Note that those ranges overlap, so a particular beer may contain a higher percentage of alcohol than a particular wine. But if you mean say beer that is 5% alcohol by volume and wine that is 10%, then yes, the wine will have twice as much effect on you. This has a lot to do with why people tend to drink wine in smaller quantities than beer. --Anonymous, 07:24 UTC, January 11, 2008.

Random insert, but it is possible to get drunk faster on beer than wine. Ever heard of the funnel-in-the-rear trick? Pour some alcohol down there, and it reaches your bloodstream un-filtered, and will get you drunk much faster. But, beware of enemas. EWHS (talk) 13:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow, what a lame, useless answer. For any given means of consumption, a stronger beverage would generally have more effect than a weaker one. The commonly-stated rule of thumb is that a typical serving of wine, beer, or liquor all contain about the same amount of alcohol. This is because the typical serving size gets smaller as the strength goes up, in approximately the right proportion. There are certainly exceptions, tho- the 12% beers for example. Friday (talk) 16:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

As the anonymous reply says, yes, something with more alcohol by volume makes you drunker, faster. In Britain, there is a concept of unit of alcohol, so that a half of beer (300mls (ish)) is equivalent in effect to a small glass of wine (125 ml) which is equivalent to a single shot of spirits - 30ml or so, I forget. As the alcohol by volume goes up, the serving size comes down, effectively. I hadn't realised that this was a UK-specific term. Telsa (talk) 17:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

. If you really want to get drunk quicker, drink your wine through a straw. Ask the Science Desk why this works SpinningSpark 20:34, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I've heard this many times, but I've never heard a reasonable explanation of how it could work. I've always chalked it up as a myth. Friday (talk) 20:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I posted the question just now. I have also heard this, but like Friday have always treated this as a kind of urban legend. --Ouro (blah blah) 21:01, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Short answer: It doesn't work that way. Long answer here. --Ouro (blah blah) 07:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Drink 40% stuff [4]

--TreeSmiler (talk) 23:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I took a look at TreeSmiler's link, and this sentence jumped out at me:

The proof of alcohol is equal to twice the percentage so that 80-proof vodka is equal to 45% alcohol

Hmm, can't say that exactly inspires confidence right off the bat.... Trovatore (talk) 23:31, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it should read 'proof about twice the percentage'. I dont know the actual relationship as all drinks here are now quoted as ABV (%).--TreeSmiler (talk) 02:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

In US usage, proof is exactly twice the percentage of alcohol (by volume, I think). ISTR that there is another definition floating around somewhere. But 80 proof is a standard concentration for vodka, and it's 40%, not 45%. --Trovatore (talk) 02:02, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Proof (alcohol) discusses the different definitions. Rmhermen (talk) 14:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Bacardi 151 (151 proof) and Everclear (190 proof) are overproof liquors that you may be interested in if you want to get drunk quickly. I know taking shots of Bacardi 151 regularly is possible (I'm living proof), but I haven't consumed many shots of Everclear so reader beware.--droptone (talk) 15:07, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Food left out overnight

I made a big pan of chili beef last night, ate half of it, meant to refrigerate the rest and reheat it today. But I forgot and left it out in the pan overnight instead. It's winter here. Is it safe to eat? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately not. Bacteria multiplies in beef left out of the refrigerator at room temperature more than 2 hours. So you need to throw it out to be safe. - Nunh-huh 09:01, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

This isn't analagous to having taken a hunk of raw meat out of the 'fridge and having left it at room temperature for twelve hours. You're absolutely correct: that would be dangerous. But in this case, the beef was (presumably) heated to the boiling point (and probably in an acidic tomato environment) so quite sterilized; new bacteria would have to arrive as infall from the air. I'm a fool so in the absence of any evil odors, I'd probably just reheat it to boiling for thirty minutes or so. Of course what you really want in this situation, is a food taster.

Atlant (talk) 13:07, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Pooh. OK, thanks. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:12, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Bah. Reheating it would likely kill the bacteria. So long as you don't eat it without cooking it a bit, you should be fine. EvilCouch (talk) 09:13, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The question was not what you could likely get away with, but rather what was safe. Food poisoning arises not only from bacteria but also from pre-formed toxins, not all of which are inactivated by heating. Similarly, any sporulated forms will not be killed by "cooking it a bit". - Nunh-huh 09:24, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

My family leave leftovers unrefridgerated everyday in Winter, and I never had a problem with it. --antilived^{T | C | G} 09:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I happen to be in the same situation as antilived (for years, now) and I've never had the slightest noticeable problem (neither me nor my siblings). --Taraborn (talk) 13:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

It used to be common practice to nail a freshly killed goose/duck to a door by its neck, and wait until the meat was rotten enough for the body to detach from the head and fall. This was considered a good time to eat the meat, seeing as it was made softer and less leathery. This is called aging. I don't know if this applies to pre-cooked meat, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EWHS (talk • contribs) 13:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

And something similar is still common practice in Iceland; shark meat (from the Greenland Shark) is prepared by letting it rot underground for six months prior to eating. There *is* a reason for this though - the Greenland Shark has no bladder, so its uric acid is instead leaked into its muscles, making the meat poisonous. After it's left to "breathe" for six months, the carcass is dug up and the meat eaten with Breniven (think aniseed schnapps). I can attest that it is the single most disgusting thing you're ever likely to consume in your life, and this is from a lifelong eater of Stilton cheese. The after-meal drink isn't nicknamed "Black Death" for nothing. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 16:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Im reasonably certain the food is fine to eat. Of course you would have to take into consideration its appearance, smell, and the ingredients used. For example a cooked pasta is less safe after 12 hours than cooked meat. And if it doesn't smell so good or taste so good then obviously don't eat it. As a small note you may also be concerned about contamination from insects (cockroaches, moths or flies which could have gotten to the food if left uncovered). Although we can't really advise you to eat something, the theory is that it should be okay. Rfwoolf (talk) 13:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Folks, when you tell the poster that it is ok to eat the dodgy chili you are working contrary to the spirit of the rules against giving medical advice. As a counterexample, I recall when I was in elementary school that the school's dietition had been at a conference at the other end of the state and brought back home on a long bus ride some leftover sandwich meat from the meal at the conference. She ate it after getting home, got food poisoning, and died. It had stayed too long without refrigeration. She probably thought it was just as safe to eat as some of the above posters. Then there is the question of whether the cat stuck his paw in it, if a cockroach ran across it, or if someone sneezed near it while it was out overnight. Might that introduce some undesirable bacteria? If in doubt, throw it out. Keep hot food hot, cold food cold, and don't mess with mister in-between.Edison (talk) 20:42, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Cost of throwing out the food: $5.00 wasted. Risk of eating contaminated meat: a lifetime of hemodialysis, and possible death. Do the math. Any restaurant that served a meat dish that had been at room temperature overnight would quite properly be shut down by the health department. - Nunh-huh 22:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

You might want to scale back that claim a little... I'd hate to have to give up on my tasty lunchmeats --Mdwyer (talk) 23:45, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, then, non-preserved meat :) - Nunh-huh 23:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Wonder if the OP ate the food after all ;) --Ouro (blah blah) 07:45, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, he was editing almost 24 hours later. If the food was *still* out at room temperature at that point, he's got noone to blame but himself :P GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 10:58, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Since you ask, yes I did, with no ill effects. Sorry for not taking your advice, Nunh-huh. If it's any consolation, I probably wouldn't do it again after reading the points you made, even though I got away with it this time. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 20:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

You might like to look into highly spiced foods that originated in warm countries to beat the lack of refrigeration. Food like curry and chili are meant to "preserve" the food temporarily. The best thing is that it's covered lightly even to prevent airborne contaminants. Julia Rossi (talk) 11:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Long socks and shorts

My sister insists that this is a fashion faux pas, but I can't find any mention of this on teh internets. Is this true? If so, can someone give me a source? Borisblue (talk) 10:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

You don't need a source for everything, you know :) It all depends on whether you think it looks OK. Personally, I think it looks a bit strange and I would not wear that combination. While we're on the subject, wearing socks with sandals is also a bit of a no-no. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 10:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Like Richard says, socks and sandals... but long socks and shorts? apart from your sister's attempt to educate you peer-pressure wise, It depends who's wearing this combination. For girls these things make for cute combinations – but for guys if it's someone around 12 to 15+, it could be a skater or pre-teen, even preppy thing; if it's someone older, it's seen as conservative and being "out of touch" with popular culture and unstylish. In Australia it's considered daggy but that doesn't stop people who want to, from wearing them. It's kinda the inversion of being a fashion victim. Someone cool with it may well come across as being indifferent or even anti-fashion. As for me I'm more impressed by people who're not so self conscious about these things. _||_ Julia Rossi (talk) 11:20, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, when playing basketball and tennis, I wear soccer socks that go above your knees. I am often seen in public like this, and I actually get compliments from strangers. I guess the psychedelicness of the red and white tie dye socks with white shorts is attractive? But, then again, I just do it for sports. Not all the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EWHS (talk • contribs) 13:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

That's part of many school's uniform in here, so I guess it is quite uncool to wear it other than when you need to... --antilived^{T | C | G} 22:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

How's that uncool (?). Personally i have absolute no problem with individuals wearing long socks with shorts, and i attend the same school as Antilived. Bonjour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.90.21.58 (talk) 07:44, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Best -Free- Music Download Software

My grandmother is getting a new computer and high speed internet, and I've been told that I can use that computer as my music headquarters and whatnot, seeing as she has a studio there for me as well. In your opinion, what is the best music download software? (i.e. LimeWire, iMesh, Frostwire) Why? Why not the other ones? I'm looking for good quality music downloads. EWHS (talk) 13:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you want free software or free music? We're really not here to help you infringe copyrights. --LarryMac | Talk 14:03, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can tell (since I'm not in prison), LimeWire isn't illegal yet. Software similar to this, downloaded from the actual sites. I don't want to steal anyone's software. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EWHS (talk • contribs) 14:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

IANAL, but as I recall, it's not the downloading from P2P sites that's illegal, but the providing of files to the network. So, provided you're just a "leech", you're not *technically* breaking any laws. It's still pretty cheapskate not to buy tracks for the whopping price of $0.99 from iTunes instead, though. 90.242.157.16 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 15:51, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't sound right to me. Numerous individuals have been prosecuted for doing nothing more than downloading. To answer the OP's question, I would look at BitTorrent. Loads of great free music available for legal download through that protocol. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 15:58, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

There is a big difference between civil law and and criminal law. Something being illegal implies it is a violation of criminal law i.e. the government can bring a case against you. Most of the P2P cases simply involve civil law, i.e. the company who own's the copyright sues you for violating their copyright. In most cases, these people have distributed (i.e. uploaded) content which often makes it even worse. This isn't surprising since with most P2P programs you are forced to distribute. But particularly when all you have done is downloaded content it's often not a violation of criminal law, i.e. it's not illegal. This all depends on jurisdiction obviously (in the U.S. I think it is a against the law simply to possess copyright violating material). BTW, personally I use eMule for my P2P purposes. And I would never purchase DRM encumbered audio, even if it's trivial to remove. Nil Einne (talk) 19:53, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Fun Quote

Not really a question, but I got bored one day and wrote this quote in Latin. I'm not 100% sure of the syntax, but kudos to whoever translates it. No using translators, either. :-P

Regular Script "Petediemcumoptissimumvivistumvivediemindiebus"

Nicely spaced and punctuated script, for easier translation "Pete diem cum optissimum vivis, tum vive diem in diebus"

EWHS (talk) 13:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can make out,it's something like... He lives life with optimism,he who lives life day by day...or words to that effect Lemon martini (talk) 14:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Somewhat close...take the verbs that end in -e (pete and vive) and make them imperative. That should help some. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EWHS (talk • contribs) 14:31, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Another question about Jail (TV series)

When did Jail (TV series) have its 2nd season premiere? Ericthebrainiac (talk) 14:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

tv.com will often say Nil Einne (talk) 19:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Another "fun" quote

As the fun quote guy above asked a q about latin, I've got one. What does "Noo ani Anqueetas hiq qua Videum" mean? Weasly (talk) 14:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

This is not necessarily pure Latin, and comes from Stargate SG-1. --Ouro (blah blah) 15:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

It is apparently similar to Medieval Latin, and reads "We are the Ancients. The place of our legacy." See Ancient (Stargate). Think outside the box 15:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

That's not similar to Medieval Latin at all...nor any kind of Latin... Adam Bishop (talk) 19:42, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, do bear in mind that this is from the same show that contends that neutronium can be readily mined from random planets, that humans have spread across three separate galaxies, and even if those humans were taken from Feudal Japan or Ancient Egypt, every one of them is capable of speaking perfect English. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 21:07, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Nintendo64 fan games

Are there any Nintendo64 fan games out there, like ones that'll run on an emulator like Project64? Weasly (talk) 14:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

You may want to search Google for something like: Nintendo 64 homebrew, or Nintendo 64 homebrew games. Homebrew is the term usually designated for the type of games you are describing.--droptone (talk) 15:09, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Ailsa Craig Engines

Why has this page been deleted?

I am the grandson of the founder and have full copyright on this. Please restore.≈≈

Chris Kisch —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.113.19.130 (talk) 15:27, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ailsa Craig Engines was deleted because "17:39, 5 January 2008 Jj137 (Talk | contribs) deleted "Ailsa Craig Engines" ‎ (This item appears to be a copyright infringement of http://www.ailsacraigengines.co.uk/index.php?page=history, and no assertion of permission has been made." That is to say, because the article included copyright material from another site, it had to be deleted under Wikipedia policies (to comply with copyright law). DuncanHill (talk) 15:36, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

There is some further information about how to proceed at User talk:Ailsacraigengines - basically the copyright holder needs to email the Foundation to give the appropriate permission for the text to be used on Wikipedia. DuncanHill (talk) 15:40, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

And it should be added that Wikipedia will require more than just the permission of the copyright holder, the material must be released under a free licence, typically by the website in question placing a GNU Free licence on the copied page. SpinningSpark 20:22, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Vote for the crook, not the Nazi

I remember seeing this slogan pasted about a while ago, but I don't recall the details. Who was the crook, and who the Nazi? Why? Where? When? 90.242.157.16 (talk) 15:53, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The crook was Jacques Chirac, the Nazi Jean-Marie Le Pen. DuncanHill (talk) 15:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Since Duncan's answered the who, the where and when are easiest: 2002, France. As for the why, Chirac was put as a crook over his "cooking the books" as Mayor of Paris to fund his campaign, while Le Pen was a "Nazi" thanks to his (and his party's) somewhat extremist far-right ideology. The French presidential election in 2002 was essentially a lesser of two evils vote and, at least in my opinion, the French made the right choice. Though I'd've personally voted for Lionel Jospin over either, had I been of majority (and, y'know, French) at the time. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 16:22, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

• In Louisiana, they had the opportunity to "Vote for the lizard, not the wizard" and "Vote for the Crook. It's Important" when David Duke ran for governor in 1991. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 17:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

wagyu where in the uk can i get it

Iforh (talk) 19:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

A quick search on Google.co.uk turns up a number of inviting sites advertising "Kobe-style" beef. Bear in mind though that in the same way that you can't get non-French champagne (well, other than in the U.S.), you'd have to order directly from a Japanese supplier to get "genuine" wagyu beef. Still, the British alternatives should do fairly well as an alternative. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 21:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if the applies to you, but in the USA we've got a ban an Japanese beef imports, so we can only get Kobe style beef right now. See the article that the other editor linked to see what it takes to be Kobe or Wagyu. --Mdwyer (talk) 23:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Pottery

Ok, I was wondering this. Why is it better to create pottery using coils of clay instead of molding by hand?T3hStoner (talk) 19:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

By molding by hand, do you mean slabs, casting or wheel work? Coils offer strength and scale and don't need a wheel or other mechanical tool. Amphorae in ancient times were built using coils as far as I know. Julia Rossi (talk) 21:56, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

And just as additional note, coil pots are a lot easier to make than hand-molded in terms of symmetry, consistent thickness etc. Hand-molding on a wheel, for example, is extremely hard to get right, and you'll probably end up covered in muddy water from head to toe. --Kateshortforbob 00:17, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

But by using coils of clay would that be able to streghten it for that when you heat to it make it solid?T3hStoner (talk) 19:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Is your question about the best or easiest method to make an object for firing? The coils are a thicker "wall" in the pottery, but I'm not sure what you mean by "strengthen". Do you mean do the coils stay upright better because they are thicker while you get it ready for firing, or during firing? Pottery needs to be 1) shaped, 2) dried (say in a drying cupboard or bench), then 3) fired. All kinds (forming, coil, and wheel work) cope with this treatment, but making coils is the more simple or manageable approach. Each method is strong in it's own way, so it's really up to you and your skills level, you think?Julia Rossi (talk) 03:30, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

FastCupid

FastCupid.com is a company that runs dating websites. It seems to run the personals websites for nerve.com and The Onion

I think there are more sites as well. Can someone help me find a complete list of personals sites run by FastCupid? --24.189.12.121 (talk) 20:12, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Dinosaurs in Bible

With all seriousness, the opening lines of the Bible says something along the lines of, "On the first day, God created the Earth. On the second day, he created the rivers or humans..." But no where does the Bible mention dinosaurs... From archaeological evidence, it is pretty safe to assume that dinosaurs came before humans; the Bible does not give mention to this. What's going on here? Acceptable (talk) 22:44, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

He was moonlighting and didn't want the IRS involved? --WebHamster 22:56, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

From the point of view of the Bible's own logic, dinosaurs would have been created on the sixth day, along with the other "beasts of the earth", and man was created after that. Or you can assume the Old Testament is a man-made work created many centuries before dinosaurs were really understood. Whatever floats your boat. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 22:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Dinosaurs are figments of the collective unconscious. Sort of like God. They exist because we want them to exist. BrainyBabe (talk) 23:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

There's one flaw in your logic, BrainyBabe: we've found the dinosaur bones. So far we've not found any physical evidence of God's body. -- Saukkomies 17:50, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

If you are going to criticise the Bible you ought to get your facts right. God did not create the Earth on the first day. On the first day He created light (let there be light . . .). The second day was neither rivers nor humans, but the whole day was taken up with just seperating Heaven from "the waters" (quite slow going this creation business you see). It was not until the third day that we got the Earth. At least those are the facts as presented in my King James version. Now for the real info (which is not in the Bible but comes from my own personal OR). The dinosaurs survived the flood because they were on Noahs Ark (that's why it had to be so big you see) but later died out because they failed to adapt to the traffic conditions of the 20th century and road kill took out too many of them. SpinningSpark 00:19, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh no, rest assured, I'm not criticizing the Bible. I'm just trying to figure out where the dinosaurs fit in. Acceptable (talk) 01:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I have seen Young Earth Creationist sites that have postulated that the Leviathan mentioned at one point was a dinosaur. But on a more serious note, the discovery of dinosaurs and the unambiguous knowledge that extinction existed posed a major problem for Christians at the time, as neither fit squarely into the standard Biblical story as it was commonly understood. These were, along with other things, elements on the intellectual path towards an evolutionary theory of life. One does not normally picture a ground sloth in the Garden of Eden or hopping up on the Ark... --24.147.69.31 (talk) 02:20, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

They dont fit in because according to the Bible, the earth is only about 4000 years old. Interesting huh?--TreeSmiler (talk) 15:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Of course, the first few days are sort of screwy, since if we, as the bible's writers presumably did (having no access to quartz watches), define the day as one rotation of the earth, then we have days before days existed... - mattbuck 02:27, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

And light before the sun. And day and night before the sun and earth. - Nunh-huh 03:50, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Right, it doesn't really make a whole lot of scientific sense no matter how you try to parse it. It is clearly, as far as I can tell, not meant to actually be a literal history of the universe as a scientist would understand it. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 04:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Nostradamus managed to make lots of "predictions" too, the problem is that they shouldn't be understood "literally". --Taraborn (talk) 08:12, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

"And light before the sun" actually, the standard model of the Big Bang theory agrees with this. The point at which electrons/positrons were "frozen out" of the quantum chaos was immediately followed by mass matter/anti-matter annihilations and a huge burst of light. This happened rather sooner than one day after creation by the way. It was at this point that the universe ceases to be opaque and becomes transparent. Surprisingly, the remnant light of this event can still be found today. "And day and night before the sun and earth", I really wish people would actually read the bible before they criticise it. Day 3: Earth, Day 4: Night and Day (And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night). I am not a Creationist, but it does ones argument no favours to misquote the other side. A Creationist misquoting Scientists would be mocked - this has to work both ways. SpinningSpark 09:01, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The interpretation of Genesis 1:4 is interesting. The phrase And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness has been taken by some to represent variously the creation of good and evil, the separation of good from evil, or the demarcation of the boundary between them. For those who insist on trying to put a scientific slant on the story (which is a silly thing indeed), it could be taken as a metaphor for the creation of time itself. Before Creation, there was no Universe and no time.

There are, of course, many different schools of thought on the meaning of Genesis, and I would refer interested readers to the original King James version for reference, and to our articles on the Book of Genesis, Allegorical interpretations of Genesis, and Creation according to Genesis—as well as the scholarly references linked therein. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

This image was up on Conservapedia for a while, before being taken down, and take a look to the right to see the Creation Museum's take on humans living alongside dinosaurs. :) GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 11:06, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I knew the camera was an old invention. But they had colour film in those days? Wow! you learn something new on Widipedia every day. SpinningSpark 14:08, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Going back to the original question, I note that in Genesis 1:20, we got sea creatures and birds on the fifth day:

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

In Genesis 1:24 we got all the land animals:

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

So we got birds and aquatic creatures on day 5, and land creatures on day 6. (Plants, if you're interested, showed up on day 3.) That means T-Rex was day 6, and pterodactyls were day 5. Unless, of course, one prefers the interpretation that dinosaur bones are all part of an elaborate practical joke by God (or Satan), in which case fossils would show up on day 3 when God created land. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

From a Jewish perspective, do a Google search on /Torah dinosaurs/ and you'll find plenty of discussion on the matter. Basically, Judaism says that if science contradicts one's interpretation of the Torah, the interpretation is wrong. The Torah itself can never be wrong. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

According to "the Bible", the earth is 5767 years old, not 4000 as has been mentioned here.

The whole point with the Abrahamic religions (excluding christianity maybe) is that there is a single God who has created nature and can override its rules at will. Rejecting the Torah on the grounds that "you can't have light before you have a sun", or any similar claim, is laughable. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 15:50, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

One rabbi told me Adam was created 5,767 years ago, but that the universe could be billions of years older. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 19:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I guess that is possible, if by "universe" we mean the chaos that existed before the genesis started. I'll try to look into that. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 21:44, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

While I am Christian, I suggest don't taking the Bible too strictly, or you will believe only 144,000 (or so) souls will be saved at the end of times. Also, people used to live over 900 years before. And remember that there may be certain misconceptions (like the eye of a needle, where it could be talking about a rope instead of a camel). Could the 7 creation days have spanned thousand of years in between instead of just 7 days? That is the explanation an evangelical friend told me. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 21:58, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Aha, friend, I'm afraid I don't know Hebrew, but the point you're making is very common, and was believed by C. I. Scofield, as well as many other prominent Christians. The standard argument for this is II Peter 3:8, which says, "...a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." The second clause in this verse negates the possibility of the first referring to a "day" as any period of time: it is just saying that time means nothing to God. However, the Hebrew word "day" is "yom" which in the Old Testament almost always refers to a 24-hour period, and the plural "yammin" absolutely never refers to anything else.[5] Hope this helps. Fléêťflämẽ U-T-C 05:05, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the word "yammim" can also mean "year" or "years" (it's probably used this way several times in the Mikra, I'll look into that. And it can also mean "seas", but I'll have to check if that's indeed the same word). But that is irrelevant, each day of the creation was one day, otherwise god wouldn't have sanctified the Shabbath. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 09:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Again, I'm not a Hebrew expert, but aren't the words "yammin" and "yammim" different? Fléêťflämẽ U-T-C 20:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I have never seen the word "yammin", and I'm not sure where you found it. The closest match is "yamin", which means "right" (the direction). That said, both endings "im" and "in" can be used for pluralization, where "im" is more common in modern Hebrew and in the Mikra, and (if I'm not mistaken) "in" is more common in medieval writings. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 20:42, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Note that transliteration details (such as single versus double "m") depend on the Niqqud, which I do not remember precisely for all words. So I may be using "incorrect" transliteration. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 20:47, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

My apologies, the word I found in a quote which was in italics. It does indeed say "yammim." I'll try to be more careful in the future :-) Fléêťflämẽ U-T-C 20:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe I can find any web sources; but interestingly, some people (like me) believe that dinosaurs do still exist. Here's the logic: the word "dinosaur" means "terrible lizard," right? So, a dinosaur as it was first described was nothing but a terrible (read: big) reptile. Now here's the kicker: reptiles grow constantly their whole lives.[6][7] Therefore, if living creatures did live longer back then, as is proposed by some, then any reptile would have the potential in, say 800 or 900 years, to become as big as dinos were. These suckers already have an advantage over most, since they get so huge in their current life span; and if you look at many reptiles, they look scarily like dinosaur fossils. Just a thought! Fléêťflämẽ U-T-C 04:55, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Hanging/aging meat

Related to the discussion above on food hygiene, how does hanging meat work? As I understand it, the fresh carcase is hung in a cool place for several weeks to improve the taste. How do butchers know when it is ready? Is this used for steak tartare -- what about food poisoning and microbes? I can see nothing under hang or meat. BrainyBabe (talk) 23:09, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps the Curing (food preservation) article will help? --Mdwyer (talk) 23:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Curing is another process. Aging of beef comes in two forms, wet aging and dry aging, but both are usually done under refrigeration. The process tenderizes the meat through the action of the enzymes already contained in it (and not through bacterial action). The tenderization is rapid for the first 7 to 10 days, and much slower after that. (DIfferent cuts are aged for somewhat different times.) So usually it's 3 to 90 days and it's done. Anything longer than 28 days doesn't do much for palatability and may result in unwanted flavor changes, and risks bacterial contamination. Since steak tartare is usually finely chopped, the initial tenderness isn't really a big issue, so it would be a waste of aged steak. - Nunh-huh 23:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Nunh-huh, that's a succinct introduction and it makes sense. I'm not doubting your word, but can you guide me to sources? I'd like to read more. BrainyBabe (talk) 10:37, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, I'm just googling "wet-aged beef" and "dry-aged beef" and picking some that are web-available (some good refs are in Food Science journals but are less accessible):[8], [9], [10] . I also just realized we have: Dry aged beef and Wet aged beef, with some associated refs. - Nunh-huh 23:28, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Hm. I'm kinda getting the idea. Thanks for the tips - there is nothing useful under rot, decomposition, preservation, or anything else I would have thought of. BrainyBabe (talk) 00:02, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Steakhouses strive mightily to disassociate "aging" from "rot" and "decomposition" :). Go figure.... - Nunh-huh 00:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

The strangely preservative effect of rotting is mentioned in passing in an essay prepared by a travelling bishop for the BBC. He describes the burial of unspecified food by the islanders of Tikopia, and how it ends up weird but edible (he is more diplomatic). The point is that such caches cannot be swept away by tsunami or other natural disasters: [11]. BrainyBabe (talk) 01:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

January 12

Smell

Can you smell all of the smell out of a smell? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.210.146.104 (talk) 00:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

When you smell an odor, you are inhaling molecules that have already volatilized. They're "gone" whether there's someone there to smell them or not. So no: smells fade, but it's not because they've been smelled too much. You may be thinking of the process of adaptation: once you've been smelling an aroma for a while, your smell receptors get "tired" and the aroma seems to lessen or disappear; in actuality, it's as strong, you're just not sensing it as well; someone else entering the scene will sense the smell immediately. - Nunh-huh 03:48, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

cupcake with a bit taken from each one

I dont remember this one too much, but back in the early 90's there was a brand of cupcake that was shaped as though someone took a bite out of them. In particular I'm looking for the commercial, on youtube probably, where a cartoon dragon is talking about how much he likes them, so he takes a bite out each one before putting it in the box. What was the brand name? Iownatv (talk) 03:38, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Not sure about a commercial with dragons, but Hostess came out with Grizzly Chomps in the early 90s, which was a cupcake with a built-in bite out of it. That had a bear mascot though. 75.157.56.145 (talk) 08:50, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Alternative search engine

I attend a religious school that widely censors content on the internet officially deemed inappropriate for viewing by college students. This includes everything from sex education to "gruesome content".. anyway, as part of it they censor google results. Of course it still works mostly fine, but I object to it, and I don't like only getting half the results, no matter what results are lost. So I want to find a different search engine.. in my experience everything except google is just terrible, but the internet is a big place.. does anyone know of a non-Yahoo non-Live non-AltaVista search engine that's really good? --f f r o t h 04:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Ask.com, also known as Ask Jeeves. SpinningSpark 08:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

How about this Google scraper, from Scroogle? It Runs your Google searches from its own machine, and displays the results on its own page.--86.146.241.252 (talk) 14:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

You may also want to try a Metasearch engine. Depending on the software the school is using, though, you may find that any search engine you use will return censored results. 152.16.59.190 (talk) 03:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Question

Why are quotation marks used in headlines like "Someone was 'planning to blow up a store'"? Hyano czespony (talk) 05:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

This is confusing to answer because you used the word "someone". Let me change the example: "Moriarty was 'planning to blow up a store'".

Okay, what this means is: "Someone says that Moriarty was planning to blow up a store. We're not saying that ourselves, but we thought you'd like to know that someone said it. And they used the actual words 'planning to blow up a store'". If only the words "blow up" were a direct quotation from this person, then only those words would be in quotation marks. (At least, that's usually how it works. In some papers the headline writer might make small alterations that did not affect the sense.) In other words, the story is about someone saying something. On the other hand, if the paper had been able to confirm that it was true, then they wouldn't use the quotation marks.

See? --Anonymous, 05:55:55 UTC, January 12, 2008.

The rule of thumb is that a good way of judging whether news stories have actual solid evidence in them, and should be taken seriously, is to look at the number of quotation marks. Quotes in the headlines are bad; quotes in the article are good. Quotes in the headlines mean that the newspaper will not stand by the story. Quotes in the article mean that individuals have agreed to talk. BrainyBabe (talk) 10:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, sometimes [...] is used to indicate bits left out of the quote. For example, if Moriarty said "I am planning to go to the pub and then blow up a store", the newspaper would say "Moriarty said he was 'planning to [...] blow up a store'". JIP | Talk 12:40, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but the OP was about headlines, and ellipsis is usually not made explicit there. BrainyBabe (talk) 12:57, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

"scare quotes" --65.161.73.245 (talk) 14:20, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Where can I find this commercial...?

Back in 2003, on TV, I saw a Wonder Bread commercial where some announcers are heard and some soccer player is closing on the soccer ball and the player kicks it and then it cuts out to see a little girl in soccer attire playing in the backyard. That was a nice commercial. Now, where can I watch this commercial here on the Internet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirdrink13309622 (talk • contribs) 06:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

youtube?--68.157.23.56 (talk) 19:47, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Acting principal (school)

What does this phrase "acting principal" (or should it be "Acting Principal"?) mean? From what I read around, it roughly means that a... temporary(?) or vice(?) principal assisting the actual principal in a school. :S — Yurei-eggtart 09:59, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

See Acting (law) and Acting (rank). BrainyBabe (talk) 10:39, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

As for "acting principal" vs. "Acting Principal", it is only capitalized if it is used as part of the person's name: "Acting Principal Percy Pettibone", but "Percy Pettibone, acting principal". --Milkbreath (talk) 18:58, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The title of "acting" principal (or for any job, really) usually means ... the job of principal is vacant at the moment ... if, for example, the former principal died or quit or was fired or is very sick or whatever. They need to ultimately get an official replacement --- but, that takes time. So, in the meanwhile, while they are waiting to fill the job with a permanent replacement, they need a temporary person to fill in and "act" as the principal for the moment. (The day-to-day matters still need to get done.) Thus, that person is acting in the capacity of the principal only temporarily until a permanent replacement principal is hired. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:36, 18 January 2008 (UTC))

coffee

about cappuccino diet coffee brazilian under name cacique —Preceding unsigned comment added by Navchaa (talk • contribs) 14:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

What is your question?--86.146.241.252 (talk) 14:36, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Cacique is a Brazilian coffee roaster producing primarily instant coffee. They seem to be the largest producer of soluble coffee. Unfortunately, I can´t understand your question, Navchaa. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Sauna

When I was in Germany they had a nice thing at a spa which was sort of like a cold sauna. Basically, it looked like a sauna (but white) and felt like a fridge. Has anyone seen these before? What are they called? --Bearbear (talk) 19:53, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

This isn´t going to be of any help: The German term is "Kaltsauna", literally the compound noun for "cold sauna". As Kaltsauna was also a red linked deity of the Amerindian Yana tribe (around Sacramento, extinct since 1916), this is unlikely to be adopted in the USA. Googling does not give any hints on a possible English name, either. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The Romans (trust them!) had a frigidarium as part of their multi-room baths. BrainyBabe (talk) 23:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, however the frigidaria were not cold saunas, but were unheated pools of water - swimming pools, if you will... -- Saukkomies 08:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

What the heck is a cold sauna? To me, a sauna is a room with increased air temperature and moisture, which induces excessive sweating. How is this done if the air temperature is at, or below, normal room temperature? And how are people dressed in a cold sauna? I would imagine not either fully nude or wearing only a towel or swimwear. JIP | Talk 03:03, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

You obviously don't sweat, so it's more like the opposite of a sauna. Thanks for the help everyone! --Bearbear (talk) 10:18, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

So it's a place to get rid of the sweat? Myself, I use a shower. JIP | Talk 11:26, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

The explanation for this lies with the health practice that is common throughout parts of Europe in which the patron of the spa is introduced repeatedly to alternating hot and then cold environments. Sometimes this will take the form of baths, and sometimes open air bathing (such as hot and cold saunas). There actually is a fair amount of scientific data that supports the healthy aspects of this practice. When the body is exposed to cold for longer than five minutes or so it begins to produce a lot of antibodies in order to beef up the immune system. If you then follow this up with a nice warm/hot environment, it protects the body from the ill effects of exposure to the cold. The overall result of this is to envelope the cold exposure with exposure to heat, making sure that the end result will be a nice warm glow AND a blood stream full of antibodies that help fight off disease.

I do not know for sure, but I believe that the reason this practice is popular in parts of Europe is due to the fact that in the Jewish religion there are requirements for adherants to perform ritual baths as part of the Biblical Laws of Purity. Both women and men were supposed to take baths at various times and under certain conditions. This bath is known as a Mikvah. I have myself had the opportunity to frequent a couple of Mikvahs in the US, although I am not Jewish, and there are indeed both hot and cold baths and saunas present. I think that every community in Europe that had a Jewish population of any size would have had Mikvahs, and that my theory is that these baths eventually began to be used by non-Jews, leading to the modern practice of what you experienced in Germany today. -- Saukkomies 09:13, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Wizards of Oz

How many relatively well-known people are nicknamed "The Wizard of Oz"? Seems like it'd be quite a large number... Vitriol (talk) 20:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

May I suggest that the equally famous "Jack of Oz", a distant relative of the OP´s fictional wiz, is ideally suited for an exhaustive answer... --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:29, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

And don't forget the Lizard of Oz (explanation here for those not familiar with the nickname). AndrewWTaylor (talk) 21:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Noblesse oblige. I suppose it all depends, as C. E. M. Joad would have said, on what you mean by "relatively well-known". Seventeen of my 682 nephews have been given this appellation at one time or another by their no doubt well-meaning parents; a few of them have got their names in the sports pages of their local papers, so they were "relatively well-known" amongst a relatively small number of people for a relatively short time - about 24 hours - but they sank to their richly deserved oblivion after that. But then, all 682 nephews and even about 250 of my nieces were informed by their fathers as soon as they (the children) were old enough to talk, that they were going to grow up to become Prime Minister of Australia. (None of them were ever sure whether this was just a paternal promise or some formal requirement they had to satisfy in order to remain accepted members of the family. Our family is not big on letting people know exactly where they stand in matters such as this.) In not one single case did this occur - although a very distant relative, the Lizard of Oz, did crack the big time for 5 years (that's big, relatively speaking, of course). So, it appears that the promises of parents are patently pathetic. The sad part is that 103 of the nephews and 14 of the nieces shot themselves, hung themselves or swallowed battery acid, for failing to become Prime Minister. I would have said, "Wait, there's still time", but they were all pretty convinced it was beyond them, particularly as none of them had ever got around to joining a political party, had no knowledge or interest in the workings of government, knew nothing about social issues, and couldn't relate to other human beings. They all thought it was an open-and-shut case - and on reflection I'm inclined to agree with them. Not with the suicides themselves, of course; just the reasons for them. So, to come back to the question, if we're talking about people to whom I'm not actually related, ah well that's a different story. I do believe The Don was occasionally referred to as "The Wizard of Oz". I'm sure it's been applied to various people - headline writers couldn't possibly have resisted using it on all and sundry, e.g. here’s a selection of some recent ones [12], [13], [14], [15] - but whether any of the names have stuck in the social memory ... none come to mind, I have to say. There’s also a body called The International Wizard of Oz Club, but on closer inspection it’s obviously a front for the CIA. I make this claim because there are no Australians associated with it – none. They say it exists to honour the work of some obviously fictitious person, and they talk about some obscure movie of the same name, apparently made in the 1930s, but I’ve never heard of it, I must say, and neither have any of my friends, so it obviously wasn’t very well-known or popular, not even relatively speaking – that’s if it exists at all, which I very much doubt. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:36, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

• Baseball player Ozzie Smith, so n >= 1. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

And football player Ozzie Newsome. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:24, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Catfish

How do you hold a catfish without touching the posioinus spikes in its gills?--76.28.67.224 (talk) 21:26, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Eeny, meeny, miny, moe

Catch a catfish by the toe

--Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 22:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

To not serve as catfish food,

Put some sturdy gloves on, dude. --Ouro (blah blah) 07:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

My dad used to catch catfish when he was younger. I asked the same question as above to my dad a few days ago, he said always grab the catfosh by the tail and when you first make contact with it, the fish will always extend it's spikes underneath the gills, but do not worry about that since your hand is grabbing the tail (hopefully).--Hey mrs tee (talk) 08:01, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

And just hope there aren't any snapping turtles or snakes when you're noodling. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 18:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Why are poor people fat?

Just wondering. Bellum et Pax (talk) 22:08, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Cheap agricultural produce is almost always fatty and / or full of carbohydrates.

Compare the prices of a lean cut of beef to something more "generously marbled".

Compare the prices of an average soft drink to some orange juice of reasonable quality.

Poor people also don´t spend money to visit the fitness centre and infrequently play golf or tennis.

That´s why. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:15, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Start with poverty and obesity. BrainyBabe (talk) 23:35, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

This person is to blame[16] SpinningSpark 00:00, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

The standard answer is that healthier food costs more, although that's certainly not always the case (apples are cheap, for example). I think Maslow's hierarchy of needs might have something to do with it -- people struggling to get by aren't going to be as concerned about their body-mass index. In addition, people with less education are both less likely to understand the danger of obesity and more likely to be poor. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

This is a phenomenon not universally true. The "poor" in India, those in refugee camps around the world (of whom there are none much poorer)and the poor in China, Japan and Korea, for example, are anything but fat, or so it appears from television documentaries. Are there any real numbers on this? Bielle (talk) 00:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Um, have you been to India? My observation has been that in the countryside, poor people are usually lean, but in the large cities, they're just as fat as in any American ghetto, especially the women. It's also important that we make the distinction between the merely poor and the starving.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 06:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

It is not true that refugees are the poorest people in the world. Internally displaced persons have fewer rights and far less international recognition, so they get a rawer deal. That includes less in the way of food handouts. BrainyBabe (talk) 01:12, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps it's more a matter of developed vs. undeveloped countries. Wildly generalizing, developed countries tend to have much more developed tertiary (service) industries-including unhealthy fast food restaurants. On the other hand, in undeveloped countries, these luxuries are less common and the citizens are "forced" to adopt a healthier diet and lifestyle. Acceptable (talk) 00:38, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Could be more a case of fat people being poor as they spend too much money on food and drink--TreeSmiler (talk) 02:11, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Do not speak of things of which you do not know. Corvus cornix_talk 06:05, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

And you know? 66.91.224.203 (talk) 18:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I know that TreeSmiler's comment is offensive. Corvus cornix_talk 20:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

How is it offensive? -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 21:35, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Fat people have so little self control that they will eat and eat and eat until they not only get fat, but become poor? That's not offensive? Corvus cornix_talk 04:31, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The truth hurts sometimes. —Nricardo (talk) 06:38, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow. Just, wow. I will not continue this discussion due to my complete and utter fury at the way this has turned. Corvus cornix_talk 19:44, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Saying that this could happen to some (implied word) people is not offensive. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 09:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

PS. Fat people, by definition, eat more than they should, for whatever reason - be that hormone imbalance, lack of self control, indifference to the effects of obesity, or any other. It doesn't take a huge leap to suggest that this excessive consumption could also have financial implications. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 09:07, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Ignorance is not bliss. Just bigotry. Such bigoted comments about black people, gay people, Muslim people, Jewish people, would be met with a lot of rancor, but these comments go unchallenged.Corvus cornix_talk 19:44, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

<sarcasm>Right... If someone asked "Why are muslims less involved in car accidents?" (assuming this is true), and I would answer "maybe it's because they are forbidden from drinking alcohol", everyone would give me a beating. </sarcasm>

Now, would you be so kind as to get off your high horse and tell me which part of my last comment is ignorant or not patently factual? -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 09:24, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the original question assumes we're talking about a country like the U.S. where poverty is associated with obesity. Most of the poor people in the U.S. are not so poor that they are undernourished (although there are, of course, hungry people in the U.S.). -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Aren't the poorest people in the world also the thinnest? I've seen many pictures of African children with arms and legs thinner than an empty toilet paper roll. I'm unusually thin myself but these pictures shock me every time. So in light of this, the original question is very dependent on the country being investigated. JIP | Talk 02:55, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd agree with the notion that poor people tend to be undernourished, going for what is cheap and looks attractive but isn't necessarily healthy, but filled with excess fats and additives to add to the weight. In Africa, however, they do not really have much of a choice - if there is nothing to eat, that means there is no food, and they - well, that's a good thing - can't go to that place. --Ouro (blah blah) 14:46, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, poor people have big round bellies (not "fat", but instead pregnant-like bellies, like this image, one of the Commons Picture of the Year candidates showing a naked woman) because of parasites infesting their stomachs. Of course, also Kwashiorkor. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 20:54, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

(In the West) poor nutrition and/or poor nutrition education? In some countries the size of a person is related to economics, ie, if you're thin it's because you can't afford to eat much; if you're roly poly, it somehow shows you're wealthy.Julia Rossi (talk) 07:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

US Commercial mail-receiving agencies

According to this article people wishing to make use of a private mailbox service must divulge their personal information to te CMRAs and the USPS. This sort of defeats the purpose of private mail boxes, in my opinion. Did these laws ever come into effect? If so, I think we should make some changes to the corresponding Wiki article. -- Ishikawa Minoru (talk) 22:32, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Lots of nasty, illegal activities can be done if there was no such rule. If a person was able to set up a mail drop without any possibility of a trace being done to determine who was the responsible party, it would allow the person to have illegal correspondence sent to the mailbox without being caught or arrested. Additionally, the US Postal Service guarantees delivery to any business's or citizen's address - but not to an anonymous person. -- Saukkomies 09:19, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

LazyTown advanced studio?

I read that LazyTown uses some sort of cutting-edge, high-budget studio on Iceland. But the show is really cheesy SFX-wise and even has an annoyingly low framerate (you can tell it "lags"). So what's the deal here? What am I missing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.49.211 (talk) 10:39, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

It's a blend of live action, CGI and puppetry that means it costs over $1million an episode to make - more here including the quote "The show’s computer graphics are so advanced that Scheving had to commission a unique, 70-terabyte processing unit, which is kept in an air-conditioned bunker lest it burst into flame. This is more processing power than exists in the rest of Iceland." 84.71.190.170 (talk) 16:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Well... what is this CGI you speak of? I never have seen anything of the likes on the show. Are you kidding? Is this a big joke or something that I don't get?

Yes, it's a joke.. --f f r o t h 04:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Changing gear ratios in cars

Suppose if one wishes to change the gear ratio of the first gear from, for example, 3:1 to 2:1, does the physical gear face have to be changed and replaced with a smaller gear face? Acceptable (talk) 01:44, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, you understand the mechanical advantage issues involved, right? So the gear needs a different number of teeth. This would mean the gear would be a different size- things would need to be rearranged for the transmission to still work. I believe this is the basic reason that most transmissions aren't set up for easy tweaking of gear ratios by end users. What people do fairly commonly is swap out the differential for a different overall final drive ratio- but this would effectively change everything, not just first gear. Friday (talk) 01:49, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

The simplest way is to either change the gearbox or change the size of the wheels. --WebHamster 01:51, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Credibility

Why is it that info criticising skeptics is not allowed on Wikipedia ?

• Wikipedia on UFO Watchdog: UFO Watchdog used as evidence of criticisim of "believers", people who investigate paranormal matters. when info concerning skeptics is found on the SAME source, it violates Wikipedia standards, such as being "inappropriate", as stated in edit summaries.

• UFO Watchdog: Criticises both believers, investigators AND skeptics. One famous skeptic criticised by UFO Watchdog is Philip Klass and CSICOP.

• Source of criticisim: www.ufowatchdog.com Click on "Hall of Shame 1, see the 7th entry there. Ignore the bathroom joke there about fiber and anal probes. Click on the underlined matter there.

This sort of thing can and will destroy what credibility that Wikipedia has. People will think that Wikipedia will actually supresses info concerning the criticisim of skeptics while it permits the criticisim of "believers" and paranormal investigators. UFO Watchdog is used in the following articles:

• Linda Howe
• Richard C. Hoagland

It calls both "conmen" and even nuts.

When placed as source that has evidence criticising a famous skeptic, it is deemed a unreliable source, even "inappropriate". Same source, different standards. 65.163.113.170 (talk) 02:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

My terminal screwed up, thus had to use another terminal. 65.163.113.170 (talk) 02:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd say this'd be more appropriately placed at the Village Pump, not? --Ouro (blah blah) 07:25, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Cryo921 (talk) 16:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Anybody moved it there yet? Did the OP? Sorry, I'm just a bit bummed out today. --Ouro (blah blah) 17:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Anyway, the answer is that there isn't one entity known as "Wikipedia" that makes or interprets the rules and if you are having difficulties with editors regarding the use of sources you should take one of the many ways of soliciting other opinions and try to maintain a cool head. It may very well be the case that some editors are interpreting the rules to fit their own POV but if you make it sound like there's a conspiracy against you you'll end up looking like a nut and be discounted. If you are interested in seriously hashing this out with others it is recommended that you get a log-in name because "anonymous" IPs are treated as second-class citizens in questions of content disputes and have to overcome a higher burden of proof than established editors. Learning the Wikipedia rules on using sources will help you to use the system to your advantage; if you don't take the time to learn them, the people who disagree with you will find ways to use them against you. It's not a conspiracy, it's just how this sort of loose social network works, and if you don't want to take the time to learn how to make the system work for you then you're better off finding a different hobby. Editing on Wikipedia is an intricate system of little social games, for better or worse. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 22:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Automatic Center Punch

Where can I find a description of how an ACP works? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.100.12.59 (talk) 04:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I cant find anything after a quick look on Google. If you have one you could take it apart and try to figure out how it works, then let us know!--TreeSmiler (talk) 05:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

It's tricky to explain without a diagram, but basically, within the punch body are three moving parts stacked-up in series. From the business end to the back of the punch, let's call them 1) the punch rod; 2) the intermediate rod; and 3) the hammer mass.

The hammer mass is spring-loaded from the back of the punch by a large spring (and you can adjust the tension on that spring by turning the backmost portion of the punch). There's a hole drilled a short distance into the front center portion of the hammer mass.

The intermediate rod is where the magic happens. It's designed so that its resting position is skewed and it bears on the hammer mass slightly off-center, on that part of the front of the hammer mass where the hole isn't. So as you press the punch rod inwards, the intermediate rod bears on the hammer mass and pushes the hammer mass back against its spring.

But at a certain point, a spring and ramp mechanism associated with the intermediate rod straightens out the intermediate rod ("unskews" it). Now centered, the end of the intermediate rod falls into the central hole in the hammer mass and the hammer mass, driven by its spring and no longer held back by the intermediate rod, starts accelerating towards the front end of the punch. But the hole in the hammer mass is only so deep so eventually the moving hammer mass bottoms out against the tail end of the intermediate rod and the impulse of the hammer mass is transmitted through the intermediate rod, through the punch rod, and into your workpiece.

"Thunk". The can of Xerex antifreeze is punctured and the TV commercial can continue.

Atlant (talk) 00:13, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I was able to find a punch and take it apart but going just by memory of the parts your description is good enough to explain the operation... Maybe there should be an article... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.100.12.59 (talk) 01:58, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Article? Done! Check it out and please feel free to be bold make improvements: Automatic center punch.

Atlant (talk) 00:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

To eliminate reader confusion it might be better if the word "rod" in the text and the word "pin" in the illustration were one or the other but not different. In fact I'd like to find some way to say rod or pin. I can change the drawing, no problem, but what do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.100.12.59 (talk) 06:00, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Hashbrowns

Is cooking hashbrowns on the stove like how you would cook grilled cheese bad for you? (no oils) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.119.61.7 (talk) 14:28, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

If you burn yourself on the stove, yes. Otherwise no. Remember that there is no such thing as 'bad' food - only a bad diet. Your hash-browns will doubtlessly be tasty and very enjoyable to eat and will have zero ill-effect if incorporated into a good diet/lifestyle. They are pretty much made of just potato and whatever oil you add when cooking (or as the article suggests sometimes a binding agent such as egg). 16:13, 13 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ny156uk (talk • contribs)

• Also, don't use too much salt. --M@rēino 18:00, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

The study of self esteem in children aged 6-10

working with children aged 6-10 years describe a way that you can support a childs development in 1, self esteem. 2,self expresion. 3, sense of identity. 4, self help skills.--77.96.184.31 (talk) 15:10, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

…Okay, sorry for the flippant comment if you caught it, but in the Welcome box at the top of this page you will read what wiki ref desk is not including this: "Do your own homework. The reference desk will not give you answers for your homework, although we will try to help you out if there is a specific part of your homework you do not understand. Make an effort to show that you have tried solving it first." Because your topic is known to you and you probably have a reading list, and google, we encourage you to make an effort in a specialised area like this. Any snags with it, let us know. Meanwhile you might like to look at Wiki article child development adn the links at the bottom of the page. Cheers, Julia Rossi (talk) 07:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

AXE Shock

My cousin gave me a bottle of AXE Shock shower gel. When applied to the pubic hair, it creates a cold sensation. When applied anywhere else, it's nothing unusual. Why is this happening? JIP | Talk 22:01, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Because your crotch is a highly sensitive area of your body... The gel will initial be very cool compared to your skin temperature. It's kinda like how when you walk into the sea (at least cold seas) the sensation is about a million times cooler when you get to your crotch than it is just wading your legs. At least that's my take on matters. ny156uk (talk) 22:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Not to mention that the groin is one of the warmest external spots on the body, so applying a cold solution is going to have more of an effect anyway. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 23:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I once had this sensation too - but it was a dedicated washing gel for cleaning those areas. This, too, made me go whoa ;) --Ouro (blah blah) 06:35, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Does it have mint in it by any chance? I have endured some sharp intakes of breath using a minty shower gel. Lanfear's Bane | t 10:18, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Not looking for legal advice - curious about Squatters rights?

Just watched an excellent suspense movie called Pacific Heights in which a young couple buy a large Victorian mansion in San Francisco and let out 2 basement apartments. One "tenant" deliberately becomes a nuisance but hides behind his "tenant's rights" in a move to get the owners out and reduce the market value of the house so that he can acquire it and make a substantial profit. I live in Scotland and recall many years ago that lots of English properties were occupied by "squatters" who were virtually irremovable by the owners. What happened to those types of event as they don't nowadays appear in the media? And again, out of simple curiousity, what rights would a person have who walked into your unlocked home while you were next door borrowing a cup of sugar and claimed they had squatter's rights?? Would they be entitled to stay and live in the home until lawfully evicted by the civil courts or would they be charged with illegal entry?? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.241.155 (talk) 23:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

• Squatters' rights differ considerably depending on the country and even within the country. New York City, for instance, has laws that give renters much more protection than they would get elsewhere in the State of New York. Like most laws in the Anglophone world, it stems from a centuries-old "common law" -- if a land-owner pays so little attention to his own property that he cannot be bothered to either evict squatters, or demand that they pay rent, within 20 years, then the squatters own the land. In modern times, of course, 20 years is an eternity to be living in legal limbo, and many of the twists and turns of ancient property law seem a little too aristocratic, so different versions have evolved. In any case, anywhere in the modern world, if someone sneaks into your house and claims squatter's rights just because you left to visit the neighbors for a minute, you don't have to wait for the courts -- you can have them arrested for breaking and entering or disturbing the peace. --M@rēino 01:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

We have an article on Adverse possession that covers squatter's rights. SWAdair | Talk 07:39, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Although may seem impossible that anyone could occupy a property for 20 years without being evicted or having rent demanded, it does sometimes happen - see, for instance, Rainbow George Weiss. Warofdreams talk 00:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

January 14

Silver Half Dollar Coins

Estimated value of 72 Silver Half Dollar coins year starting 1930. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.36.74 (talk) 00:05, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

• I'll give you $36. --M@rēino 01:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll give you $36 plus 50c p&h. Alternatively, have a look at what they are going for here Rockpocket 01:36, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Life Expectancy

I have four questions to ask you:

1. What was the average life expectancy of the world in 1669?

2. What was the average life expectancy of the world in 1900, at the beginning of the 20th Century?

3. What was the average life expectancy of France in 1900, at the beginning of the 20th Century?

4. What was the average life expectancy of the world in 1950, at the middle of the 20th Century?

When I say life expectancy, I mean life expectancy for both males, females, and overall in years to at least one decimal place.

Bowei Huang (talk) 00:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

This World Health Organization presentation gives 31 years as the average world lifespan in 1900. This site gives 68.2 years as the U.S. life expectancy in 1950, but not the whole world's. A Washington Post article from 1950 I found (viewable only through subscription databases) gives 48.23 for males and 51.08 for females in 1900 and 65.16 for males and 70.4 for female in 1950 (it doesn't specify whether these numbers are U.S.-specific or worldwide, but I'd assume U.S.-specific based on the high values). This article gives the 1900 life expectancy among the French working class as 47. I know none of this was exactly what you were looking for, but I hope it helps. -Elmer Clark (talk) 04:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Bear in mind that 31 might have been the average age at death in 1900, but it wouldn't have been a typical age. The numbers are skewed by high infant mortality - if you made it to 16, you'd probably make it to 60. FiggyBee (talk) 10:05, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

This is the global average, it's also affected by the low average lifespan in third world countries. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 16:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

What was the average life expectancy of Australia in 1900, at the beginning of the 20th Century? Bowei Huang (talk) 23:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics publication 3105.0.65.001 (Australian Historical Publication Statistics[17]), the life expectancy at birth in the period 1891-1900 was 51.1 years for males, and 54.8 years for females. In 1999-2000, it was 77.0 and 82.4 years, respectively. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 05:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

What was the country that had the highest life expectancy in the world in 1900, at the beginning of the 20th Century? What was its life expectancy? Bowei Huang (talk) 23:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Foods

What are some foods that help you lose weight? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.119.61.7 (talk) 00:32, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

No foods help you lose weight, only a good diet can. Try looking around in google for a good diet plan that suits your needs.--Dlo2012 (talk) 00:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

• That's a little harsh, Dlo2012. Any diet is going to be composed of food, after all. The person who posted the question might be interested in reading our articles on diet fads and nutrition. --M@rēino 01:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry I had to do a double-take on "No foods help you lose weight, only a good diet can." Well I may be wrong, but exercise is still a tool for weight-loss these days right? ;) Croat Canuck If I were from Laos, The Laotian Croatian would fit 03:05, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I's a simple equation. Use more calories than you take in and you will lose weight. What you actually eat makes little difference. If you exercise a lot then carbs will burn off first, so a high carb diet will enable weight loss. Whereas if you eat a lot of fat and/or protein then efficient exercising will create muscle which weighs more than fat so you'll gain weight. Swings and roundabouts really. This advice, of course, does not take into account nutrition and healthy eating. It's only related to weight loss. --WebHamster 03:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe the OP may have been looking for Negative calorie food. Before beginning any diet, however, you should first consult your doctor. The human body requires more than just calories in order to function properly, and many fad diets deprive the body of nutritional elements such as minerals that are needed for good health. Your doctor can help evaluate your nutritional needs and develop a diet and exercise regimen that is right for you. SWAdair | Talk 07:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

business management

why do you think many people have misintepreted Frederick W.Taylor's scientific scientific management being inhumane

Who are you? Four tildes please, and before I misinterpret your question, can you clarify? Julia Rossi (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 07:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Please also clarify. Who says that "many people" have "misintepreted" his work? How many is many? Who claims his work is humane?90.9.212.53 (talk) 15:08, 14 January 2008 (UTC)petitmichel

Basic lead guitar technique question

So, when I'm playing a simple octave chord consisting only of one bass note on the Low E strong and a the same high note on the D string. How do I keep the intermediary string (the A string) from ringing? How exactly do I mute it? A link to a picture or video would be great. Sorry for the dumb question; I know this is basic stuff.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 03:13, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Bridge dampening with the heel of your plucking hand? Slight contact with the finger of your fretting hand? --WebHamster 03:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't bridge dampening mute all strings equally? Or am I supposed to be able mute 1 string at a time with my strumming hand?--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 03:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Therein lies the skill. :) If done right bridge dampening can help stop ringing without actually muting any string. All it takes is a small amount of pressure to stop a string ringing. --WebHamster 03:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

My left hand is an uncoordinated mess, so I'll practice the bridge dampening option first.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 03:40, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

If you want to play octaves (they are not chords), why not just pluck the two strings with your fingers?--TreeSmiler (talk) 04:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I know they're not chords per se; I just wanted to make it clear I was strumming both strings at the same time, as opposed to in sequence. I don't want to pluck with my fingers; I played the bass (never with a pick) for many years and am thus already proficient with my fingers. Since I am new to picking (and have no guitar experience), I wish to develop basic technique.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 05:35, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Play the octaves as if you are fingering a power chord, but with only two fingers. Your index finger will mute the middle string, whatever it is (the A string in this case). You might still be able to hear the pick clicking against the muted string, and if you have enough distortion you might get some accidental harmonics that way, but otherwise it will be inaudible. (This is how octaves are played by lazy rock stars like Billy Corgan and Rivers Cuomo. If there is a more professional way, I don't know it :)) Adam Bishop (talk) 10:03, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed damping the intermediate string with the index finger is another legit way. I believe this method can also be used on chords where say you only want to play the inside 4 strings. Apparently this technique was used by Freddie Green (arguably the best big band guitarist ever)--TreeSmiler (talk) 18:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

you do it useing upstroks. but basically all you need is practice, then you can develop your own technic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.191.136.3 (talk) 14:37, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Why does my dog keep eating cat turds?

He's already well fed. One would imagine he'd have higher standards. Bellum et Pax (talk) 03:44, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Could be his system is unable to metabolise something that he needs, or alternatively he must like the taste. Most hounddogs agree when asked that they prefer a little pussy now and a gain ;) --WebHamster 03:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Our article Dog has this to say "Animal feces. Dogs occasionally eat their own feces, or the feces of other dogs and other species if available, such as cats, deer, cows, or horses. This is known as coprophagia. Some dogs develop preferences for one type over another. There is no definitive reason known, although boredom, hunger, and nutritional needs have been suggested. Eating cat feces is common, possibly because of the high protein content of cat food. Dogs eating cat feces from a litter box may lead to to Toxoplasmosis. Dogs seem to have different preferences in relation to eating feces. Some are attracted to the stools of deer, cows, or horses." Which may help, or it may not. DuncanHill (talk) 03:59, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Ask a vet.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Could be worse, one of mine instintively tries to disguise his scent. This involves rubbing in excerement. Always a nice surprise when you go to put his lead back on. Lanfear's Bane | t 12:59, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

A cat's diet is necessarily more high in protein and actual 'meat' than a dog's is. Cats are almost pure carnivores, while dogs, as I assume you're aware by your question, will sink their teeth into pretty much anything they come across. However, a cat's digestive system is not particularly good at extracting nutrients, meaning that their feces still contain a lot of calories and other, um, goodness that could be extracted by another animal. To put it in a bluntly flippant way: the cat shit is probably better than the stuff you've been feeding the dog, bacterial considerations aside. Matt Deres (talk) 21:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Chipped China

Are chipped dinner plates and bowls safe to use with food? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaadowmisha (talk • contribs) 04:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

A quick Google search doesn't turn up any results, but I would imagine that the only danger would be from cutting oneself on the broken glass. Most china safety issues are from the actual glazing on the china, not the original content (see here). I'll keep looking though. Also please remember to sign your posts using four tildes "~~~~." Fléêťflämẽ U-T-C 04:39, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I can't see any reason why chipped plates should be unsafe. (Presumably the food goes nowhere near the chip.) Cracked plates, however, should be thrown out as bacteria can live in the crack, which also compromises the strength of the plate (or bowl).--Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:26, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Seinfeld George pants

In some episode of Seinfeld, Jerry tells George that once you start wearing baggy/comfortable pants, you signal to society that you "give up on dating". Or something like that. Since I don't remember exactly, I cannot search and find a script on the Web.

Can you tell me which episode? Or even provide an accurate quote? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.51.13 (talk) 13:35, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The episode is The Pilot, Part 1, and the quote you probably want is:

Jerry: "Again with the sweat pants?"

George: "What? I'm comfortable."

Jerry: "You know the message you're sending out to the world with these sweat pants? You're telling the world: "I give up. I can't compete in normal society. I'm miserable, so I might as well be comfortable.""

--Yamanbaiia^{(free hugs!)} 14:23, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I had no idea it was in the pilot... I even watched the pilot recently! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.51.13 (talk) 14:38, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

It's not the pilot-pilot, it's the episode when a show about Jerry (called Jerry) is going to be made and they all meet their counter parts while they are doing the pilot.--Yamanbaiia^{(free hugs!)} 14:50, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.51.13 (talk) 16:33, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Three random questions

1. In one episode of Seinfeld, George starts doing everything the opposite way. Stuff go well for him this way. Eventually he falls back into his old miserable self. Did he stop doing things the other way around? If so, why? What happened?

2. How come the outro to Star Trek clearly shows stars as "little dots floating in space"? Isn't it supposed to be a show popular with "geeks"? This is not good for the suspension of disbelief, even if it looks cool as an effect (Windows 3.1 screensaver).

3. How exactly did the dolphins in The Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy supposedly find out about Earth's fate beforehand? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.51.13 (talk) 14:47, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

For (1), you are talking about The Opposite--droptone (talk) 15:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

For (2), are you referring to the closing credits for Star Trek:The Next Generation? I think the answer is that it's the closing credits, so why spend a ton of money on them? Also, if we take the graphic literally, the stars are light-years away, so they'd look like little dots anyway. --M@rēino 16:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

1. Well, what happened, then? I don't think it's resolved in that same episode.

2. Well... yes, stars are "little dots", but they don't move like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.51.13 (talk) 16:32, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

How do you know stars don't move like that? You've never stared out the bow window of an Enterprise class vessel moving at full impulse. ;) --M@rēino 16:35, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

<geek>The starship Enterprise in Star Trek: The Next Generation was actually a Galaxy-class vessel. </geek> TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

For (3), my recollection (someone, correct me if I'm wrong) is that this part of the joke isn't something that's explained in any of the books, not even So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish. One of the signature Douglas Adams techniques is making several bizarre declarations and then only explaining half of them, so it's not at all out of keeping for him to never follow up on this half of the dolphin joke. It's possible Adams is mocking the Order of the Dolphin, but that's pure speculation, and it's more likely just a throwaway gag. --M@rēino 16:35, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps the dolphins were able to read the notice that was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard." --LarryMac | Talk 17:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Since both the dolphins and the mice were more intelligent than humans, I took it they were in league with each other and the mice tipped them off.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:31, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Alas, that sign would only have revealed the impending demise of Arthur Dent's house. Perhaps (with their vast intelligence and unspecified space-travelling abilities) they visited the regional planning offices at Alpha Centauri. Algebraist 17:59, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

3) Are you complaining that the stars move too quickly, relative to the Enterprise? Or are you complaining that the stars are only rendered as pinpricks of light, as compared to something more interesting? How would you have preferred the stars to be drawn? APL (talk) 20:56, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I assume you mean 2). Anyway... I am complaining that the stars are shown as little dots that float in a black void instead of actual distant little dots that wouldn't move at all since they are so far away and are in fact huge gas spheres. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.51.13 (talk) 03:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Because the moving stars provide a sense of Great Speed for the spaceship? On the same topic, how come spaceships in Star Trek (and most Sci-fi) make a roaring sound as they fly by in outer space? Sound does not travel through space, but on a TV show the effect provides a sense of Great Power. The niche for ultra-realistic "hard sci-fi" is small and not very lucrative. Star Trek is more akin to what I'd call "Space Opera" -- fans accept the blatant silliness in exchange for (hopefully) compelling stories and characters, with a bit of photon torpedos on the side. Pfly (talk) 07:51, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

"Star Date 1,000,001 - Captain's Log - noticed again how empty interstellar space is. Running engines at full power, but speed still 99.99% of the speed of light. Had sausages for tea. Watched Groundhog Day for the 793rd time." Gandalf61 (talk) 13:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, ah, ah - the Enterprise warps space around it, allowing it to traverse distances at what appear to be faster than light speeds, though without pissing off Einstein. It's still mostly empty, though. Matt Deres (talk) 21:41, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm looking for a question

Once this guy that said that he was eighty or so asked a question on here about hotmail.com. He wrote that he had gone to hotmales.com and i would like to find this question in the archives. I think it was early last year. Does anybody remember this question?--Dlo2012 (talk) 18:55, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2007 February 20#Request for assistance. Though I strongly suspect it was a joke. Rockpocket 19:03, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

If it was a troll at least it was an amusing and creative troll. Better than we usually see. --S.dedalus (talk) 21:36, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

January 15

olive complexioned

Often, I hear references to individuals being "olive complexioned" ....Exactly what does that mean? What color skin is that and how is it distinguished from others? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tdogg56 (talk • contribs) 00:57, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Olive-coloured skin is coloured olive. From the article: "Sometimes people are said to be "olive-skinned", to denote shades of medium toned white skin with small hints of yellow and green.". I'm pretty sure many people who have olive-coloured skin are from the Medditerean area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.208.109.169 (talk) 01:25, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't green skinned people more likely originate from flying saucers? I have never seen a human of good health (normal liver function) who was green skinned. Tan or swarthy, perhaps. Edison (talk) 03:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I've always taken "olive-skinned" to refer to black olives which are really varying shades of brown. Although I have seen some people approach the color of the pimento in a green olive when embarrassed.

Atlant (talk) 14:21, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

It usually just means they have a hint of olive in their skin. They aren't green. If people in California have orange tinted tans, people in the Mediterranean often have brown/olive tinted complexion. As for how is it distinguished from others, well, it's not a scientific category. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 16:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Averge time a ref desker stays

How much on averge does someone who awesners question stay about on the refernce desk. Also what the hell happened to stevebaker BonesBrigade 01:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

You can find Mr. Baker at his User page, and his reasons for not appearing on the Ref Desks any longer are on his Talk page. As for an average time, that would be hard to assess, unless a whole bunch of regulars decide to land here with an answer. For many of us, we have the Ref Desks on our watchlists and pay attention when an interesting new section or edit summary comes up. We may only be "on the Desks" as long as it takes us to type a comment or answer, but may be watching them for as long as we are on Wikipedia at any given session. In my case, that could be from minutes to hours. Bielle (talk) 01:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Lots of of people come, stay a while, then leave for some reason. They may also come back later. Working out the average stay is a statistical nightmare problem ;)--TreeSmiler (talk) 02:33, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't fancy doing the stats, but you get get a feeling for how long editors have frequented the desks by using Wikidashboard For example, here you can see the contribution history to this page by the most prolific of ref deskers (you can click on the preferences tab and extend it to more people, if you wish) You will note that some editors, such as User:MacGyverMagic have been contributing at a low frequency, regularly since 2004. Other editors such as User:Justanother and User:Light current edited for short periods, about 6 months, but at a very high frequency. Rockpocket 03:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes it seems that high frequency leads to inevitable burnout (or banning)!--TreeSmiler (talk) 03:48, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

It is surprising I am on the top several list for science and humanities but not for miscellaneous. I have made a thorough study of so many miscellaneous things! Edison (talk) 03:51, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Is this a good place to report (please forgive lack of precise jargon here) that I went to the wikidashboard site (link above), my browser crashed twice, then when I went to a wikipage in history, the dashboard stayed put and when I tried to edit/reply to an RD section, a notice came up saying I was blocked and to log in again, which, stupidly I did when I realised it could be some kind of copy site thing happening. I closed the page, entered WRD's url and everything's back to normal. Have I given my login info away somewhere dodgy? Should I put this on another desk instead? Julia Rossi (talk) 06:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you happen to use Safari? I seem to remember there were issues with dashboard and Safari at one point, though I don't know if they persist. Rockpocket 07:01, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Yep. I do use Safari, so looks like there might still be issues. Were fake sites among them? Julia Rossi (talk) 07:06, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I don't think so. I think it was technical issues with the browser; you should be fine. Rockpocket 07:13, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks heaps Rockpocket. Julia Rossi (talk) 07:25, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) Back to the original question - I just like to come here because sometimes interesting conversations can be found. And, well, sometimes I can answer a question or two, being useful. I like to be useful. --Ouro (blah blah) 09:40, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Like Ouro, I browse to see if I can answer anything or if there is something interesting discussed. Since I contribute based on how much free-time I have and whether a question is asked that I can assist with. So yeah, the statistic would be virtually impossible to figure out since some of us have a very diverse knowledge-base, so we do not reply unless we can help.--droptone (talk) 19:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

US dependant visas

What is the rational behind allowing dependants of L1 visa holders (L2) to work, but not allowing the dependants of H1 visa holders (H4). There shoud be some logical reasoning behind this. I searched the web, but every site just says L2 can work - H4 cannot work. But is there a documented reason as to why this difference in treatment? - Kishore (talk) 03:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Why are ME oil exporting countries such staunch supporters of their dollar pegs?

If the dollar has fallen so much why do they refuse to adjust? Why do they also want to sell oil in dollars? -- 66.91.224.203 (talk) 03:24, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Good question. We have the article Petrodollar warfare which in part covers this, but no really good answer as to why Iran or Venezuela has not by now moved to Euros. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:01, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

If I understand correctly, Iran will only accept payment for oil in Euros. Nonetheless, the price is still based on dollars. This is partly because the two main oil exchanges in the world (there is a new smaller one in Dubai) are in London and New York, and they determine prices based on dollars. The countries can't really make that determination in terms of how it is priced, though, as Iran has done, they can chose to accept other currency. Cheers Geologyguy (talk) 18:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Super Mario Galaxy -- inaccurate title?

Why is the game called "Super Mario Galaxy"? First of all, there are many, many galaxies in the game. Each "galaxy" is a "level". So it should be called either "Super Mario Galaxies" or "Super Mario Universe". It makes no sense.

Actually, since each so-called "galaxy" consists of a few extremely small planet-like orbs, "Super Mario Orbs", "Super Mario Worlds", "Super Mario Planets" or "Super Mario Solar Systems" (that's really stretching it) would be more fitting.

(Don't even get me started about the suspension of disbelief required to accept the fact that Mario can breath in vacuum without any sort of suit etc.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.51.13 (talk) 05:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Super Mario Universe is their upcoming title. --antilived^{T | C | G} 05:30, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The whole game is completely and utterly insane (have you seen the last cutscene?). The title is just par for the course, methinks. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 07:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

But you've had no problem with the previous Mario titles in which giant mushrooms grant magical powers for limited time periods, giant pipes appear throughout the landscape, and a giant mutant turtle-thing is out to get you? --LarryMac | Talk 15:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Anyone know of Grammar Pie

It's a country style dish made from grammar which is a kind of squash or pumpkin but I can't find more about it except that this is the right spelling for it. Plus I want to know what a grammar is and if it is not available generally where can you get it. Anyone? Julia Rossi (talk) 05:24, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Could you mean Gramma pie? Here is a recipe. [18]. DuncanHill (talk) 05:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

And it appears that gramma, also known as rios, is a kind of squash or marrow, Cucurbita moschata. DuncanHill (talk) 05:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, DuncanHill much appreciated. I was confused because a British site called it grammar and then you can guess that google came up with English grammar etc. Took the mystery out of it to find it's a butternut squash. Best,  : ) Julia Rossi (talk) 05:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

It may be worth asking at a traditional greengrocer's, the thing with squashes is that there can be many different varieties within one species, and gramma does appear to be a particularly Australian thing. DuncanHill (talk) 06:01, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Aha. I've heard it does have a unique flavour and by that I take it not regular pumpkin, so will follow up next time I'm "in the field". Do you know if it's very different from pumpkin pie? Julia Rossi (talk) 06:54, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

SVG files

Two part question:

• Is there anyone on Wikipedia that can convert a PNG image to SVG?
• If so, can anyone convert this image from PNG to SVG? TomStar81 (Talk) 06:34, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

There are plenty of people who can vectorise on here, but I doubt your request can be fulfilled. The original is a scan of a real object, not a diagram or drawing, and thus unsuitable for SVG. --antilived^{T | C | G} 08:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, that looks like an drawing to me, not a scan. Notice how all lines and stars are identical. But the resolution is frightfully low. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 16:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

If you bribed or threatened someone they could probably redraw it from scratch in SVG, but it's tedious work, mate. Cheers, Ouro (blah blah) 09:37, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

If you're looking for a quicky way to vectorize something, Vector Magic works better than most, and is free and runs out of your browser. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 16:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The Pentagon looks like a cool place to wander around

But what's a realistic way for a civilian to get a pass to visit?

128.54.76.88 (talk) 07:25, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

You have a few choices. Get a job in the media or make friends with an accredited Pentagon staffer who is willing to give you a tour [19], or contact your state representative’s office (a Senator or Congressman/woman) and request a place on a general public tour. If you are a member of an educational institution, and can round up 4 friends, you can also request a group tour. [20] Rockpocket 08:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

First episode of "The Sarah Connor Chronicles"

At two different occasions, they run over a terminator with their car. Don't cars get ruined by hitting mooses/elks or even deers? So then a heavy metallic machine man should completely demolish the car... no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.51.13 (talk) 07:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Two responses come to mind: First, the cars looked like they would need, at minimum, some serious body work. And second, analyzing every detail for its physical realism is probably not the best way to enjoy the show. --Trovatore (talk) 07:34, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Did you notice how Cameron, the girl Terminator, had to pull the grill off of her truck when she hit the first Terminator, the substitute teacher guy? It was pretty wrecked. Corvus cornix_talk 17:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Cyclist Mickaël Pichon

Is the French cyclist Mickaël Pichon (not the motocross rider) retired or is he still racing? If so, in which team is he? -- Leptictidium (mammal talk!) 09:51, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

According to this entry from three weeks ago, he still seems to be part of the Bouygues Telecom team, but as a mechanic, not as an athlete anymore. ---Sluzzelin talk 13:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. -- Leptictidium (mammal talk!) 14:36, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Helicopters in Popular Culture

I know there is an article relating to the use of helicopters in popular culture because I've made edits to it. However, I cannot remember how to get to it. Could someone be so kind as to point me in the right direction? Z28boy (talk) 16:05, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, it doesn't appear that you have when logged in as Z28boy. This page indicates that the article has been deleted. Perhaps deleted articles don't show in your contribution history, I'm not sure. --LarryMac | Talk 16:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Chalk another one up for the deletionists. That sounds like the kind of quirky article that, IMHO, should have been allowed to remain. Let's face it, there's never going to be a list like that anywhere else on the interweb. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 16:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Yea, I agree. You are correct though LarryMac, I edited it long ago, anonymously, when I didn't have a user name. That is a shame it was deleted but I can understand the reasoning. Is there anyway I can view a history of a deleted page? Z28boy (talk) 16:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Is it the history of the article you want or the latest version of the article itself before it was deleted? If you ask an admin nicely, they might be prepared to send you the text, as long as you promise not to recreate it blah blah. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 16:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's the deletion log, by the way, and here is the discussion. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:19, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

In view of the debate, the delete decision seems to lie somewhere between harsh & capricious. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

How do those decisions work? Is it a simple majority of votes cast (keep vs. delete), or what? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 16:28, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Guide to deletion#Closure: "The desired standard is rough consensus, not perfect consensus. Please also note that closing admins are expected and required to exercise their judgment in order to make sure that the decision complies with the spirit of all Wikipedia policy and with the project goal. A good admin will transparently explain how the decision was reached." I guess Wafulz does not like uncited lists. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:41, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

One of the few discussions on categories for deletion I took part in had a similarly frustrating outcome. Both by vote count and by strength of the arguments provided, it looked like "no consensus" leaning toward keep (in my opinion of course), yet the category was deleted with reference to alphabet soup. ("This category clearly violates WP:ABC, while the keep arguments are a good example of WP:DEF and WP:GHI" and so forth). Maybe reference desk regular Edison can share some pointers, as he has a lot of experience in deletion discussions. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:42, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly, WP:CONS has this to say: "Polling is generally discouraged, except in specialized processes such as AFD." But I can't find anything else in policy about voting in AFD discussions. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 16:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Policy shopping (and next poster: outdent, please) --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

So after all that, are there any proper channels to appeal a delete? Z28boy (talk) 16:57, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Deletion review, I think. ---Sluzzelin talk 17:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Most of the "keep" suggestions were variants of "I like it", "it's useful", or "it will get better", whereas deletion arguments hinged on "it's largely unsourcable", "it's an indiscriminate collection of information", and "it's a list of triva". It almost certainly won't be recreated in this form. Honestly, with an article like this, it'd be better to start from scratch.-Wafulz (talk) 18:36, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

YMMV --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:22, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

See also the essay on in popular culture articles, for some background information on why this article existed, and why it was deleted... FiggyBee (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

How would Terminators come to existence?

Both the The Terminator movies and "Virus" (B movie) suffer from the same problem: HOW do those crude industrial robots begin to create more sophisticated robots without the help of humans who can maintain the factories, provide electricity, get raw material in and help out with details and so on? It just makes no sense. How can this robotic "evolution" take place?

Basically: How do car-building arms turn into T-800s or whatever models are used for actual manifacturing in the scary future? The Skynet virus must somehow spread from "all normal PCs" to factories where the virus knows whatever programming language required to reprogram the arms and then start building robots instead of cars? I have a hard time believing that this would at all be possible.

This really ruins the otherwise great movies for me. Please come up with a reasonable theory as to how this would be possible, even if we accept that it is not likely to ever happen IRL. How does it work IN THEORY? Not even the theory holds up for me (or really is ever explained in any sort of detail). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.49.146 (talk) 17:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

PS: Also, Skynet BOMBS humans to Kingdom Come, meaning the industries would be ruined as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.49.146 (talk) 17:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

In at least one instance (the second film) the base technologies were reverse-engineered by Cyberdyne from Arnie's brain. Algebraist 17:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

In the third film, it's likely Skynet employed a Process Too Complicated To Explain. Algebraist 17:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

If you had sufficiently intelligent Artificial Intelligence then it wouldn't be totally implausible. If you gave a very clever Linux hacker a peripheral they had never used before they'd be able to figure out how to make their own drivers to make it do whatever they wanted — they do this all the time. If you had a massively large, parallel AI system that somehow achieved sentience, then sure, it could use that to build whatever it wanted, why not. The hard part (and very sci-fi part, at this point) is coming up with a computer program that could be so smart and have such a strong will. Once you imagine that, though, it taking over factories, using robots to do its bidding, etc., that's not super implausible.

As for bombing the humans, well, it would depend how they bombed them. You can kill a lot of people without damaging heavy industry, if that's what you want to do. You don't have to worry too much about heavy industry if there's nobody to operate it.

There are, of course, experiments done today on evolutionary algorithms. They aren't always very successful — sometimes if the "reward" is set too narrow they'll find a "cheating" way to get to it (I remember reading about some algorithm years ago that was supposed to do something rather simple, like learn how to set up some sort of communications channel, and it ended up doing it in a very counter-intuitive way, by using some random piece of metal in the computer as a radio receiver or something like that). --24.147.69.31 (talk) 17:33, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey!This is SCIENCE FICTION.Right?

June 27 Query

Hi,

I'm looking for anything to do with June 27 - Birthdays, Deaths, Historical Facts, Events - whatever that happened on this date would be greatly appreciated - going as far back as possible in history. Thanks, Tara Kimberley Torme —Preceding unsigned comment added by Taratorme (talk • contribs) 17:50, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried June 27? -- Coneslayer (talk) 17:50, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Enzo Ferrari

Enso Ferrari 'broke his promise' by designing or manufacturing this car. There are/were only 2 other brands that will/could do 0-62 as stock. This car has/had only 4 available factory installed options, one being a radio designed for this car in particular. This car is not Italian. What kind of car is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.123.161.232 (talk) 17:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• Is this a double jeopardy question? --WebHamster 18:40, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Remote Control Toys

Is there a remote control toy that can also be or plug into a computer (like have a USB port) and take instructions from a computer controlling its moves? Is there a special term for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.203.103.2 (talk) 19:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

There are certainly remote control toys that can accept inputs from a computer program. However, I'm unaware of any specific widely-recognized term to classify them. — Lomn 19:22, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

If you haven't already read it, Turtle (robot), might be useful, although not really current. The IRobot Create appears to be a modern variant - not sure whether it's remote control or pre-progam. Checking out gadget gift websites like I Want One of Those, there are things like the horribly expensive Robonova. It does say it's progammable, but it doesn't say how. I'm sure there's something like what you describe somewhere: you can pretty much buy anything with a USB connector these days. --Kateshortforbob 19:57, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Where could I find them or how could I find more information on these toys with unputs to be controlled by a computer? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.203.103.2 (talk) 19:47, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Google for usb toy, take a look around thinkgeek. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:53, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Lego Mindstorms fits the bill, I think. (And it has Bluetooth connectivity as well as USB.) —Steve Summit (talk) 23:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Right, I think Mindstorms is what you are looking for. They're quite well-known for this ability and have a very developed community and are very flexible. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 23:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Mindstorms has bluetooth now? I feel behind the times. My set needs a serial port! 24.2.176.64 (talk) 04:15, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Looser of the mens marathon at the Mexico City Olympics of 1968

I've been unable to locate the name of the looser of the men's marathon using this website.

The man arrived in the stadium a long time after everyone else and the reason he completed the

race was that he told a reporter-"my country did not send me here to quit"-or something similar.

Thanks --Kirliee (talk) 19:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Here is the story. If you think it should be in one of the articles on Wikipedia, be bold and add it. And please, the word is "loser." "Looser" is what your belt is after you let it out a notch. --LarryMac | Talk 19:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Dissolving tiling grout in a toilet bowl

So having completed tiling our bathroom floor the remaining excess grout ended up in the bottom of the porcelain toilet bowl, where it remains. Any ideas what can be put in the bowl to dissolve the grout? 84.70.165.195 (talk) 19:43, 15 January 2008 (UTC)Steve the Flush

Did I miss the "language" part of your question? Maybe using strong words might dislodge it? +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 19:53, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Nope, but this is the Language reference desk. You might like to try the Miscellaneous Reference Desk instead. Or ask Heloise. —Angr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 19:54, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

moved from language desk -Elmer Clark (talk) 19:58, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Your hand, and some sort of firm but gentle shear action - perhaps with a piece of wood? You should be able to clear grout from porcelain without reaching for the chemicals.--Tagishsimon (talk) 20:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

You dont dissolve it, you pick it out with your hand (wearing rubber gloves if you are squeamish) and put it in the dust bin. There are enough chemicals already in the sewerage system.--TreeSmiler (talk) 00:31, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Spirits of salt will remove any residue that you can't scrape off. DuncanHill (talk) 00:49, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Isnt pouring HCl down your toilet against the local water company regulations?--TreeSmiler (talk) 01:03, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Disposing of industrial quanities of it might be, but a small amount to dissolve accretions should be fine - it is, after all, marketed as a toilet cleaner. DuncanHill (talk) 01:05, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

OK I didnt realise that!--TreeSmiler (talk) 01:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

It's good stuff - but you do need to follow the safety instructions on the bottle. DuncanHill (talk) 01:24, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Gold Mines California

Does anyone know where I could find the resource or a listing of old gold mines in California? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.203.103.2 (talk) 20:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• The state government has some pretty good resources. --M@rēino 22:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

There should be an Economics and Business desk

Yes. Agree? 128.54.77.53 (talk) 21:07, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Not a proper question for RD. Move it to RD talk--TreeSmiler (talk) 21:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Copied to Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk#There_should_be_an_Economics_and_Business_desk. Please respond and comment there. ---Sluzzelin talk 21:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

• Without commenting on the merits of this suggestion, I will advise that if you have a specific question about business, that you use the humanities desk in the meantime, unless the question is mathematical or statistical in nature, then use the math desk. --M@rēino 22:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

January 16

People in general

How can it be that people in general seem to appreciate Seinfeld, The Simpsons, South Park and so on, and yet they keep on being stupid assholes? Don't they see what I see? Don't they take in any of the subliminal (often quite obvious) messages? Do they see it merely as "fart joke"/slapstick entertainment? I don't get it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.49.146 (talk) 05:27, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

• Because they're stupid assholes to begin with. I've rarely experienced a stupid asshole becoming either less stupid or less of an asshole by watching a TV show. Or by any other means. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 07:01, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Some Zen yahoo teacher said, "If you are an asshole and you become enlightened, you are an enlightened asshole." Pfly (talk) 08:33, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Name this toy.

What do you call this toy?

It's a rectangular shaped box, with hundreds of small pins embedded in it, into slots. A person can push the pins with their hand or the face or whatever, and it appears on the other side, like a "hand" or "face" made of metal. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 07:07, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Pin Art. Cheers, Ouro (blah blah) 07:14, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Humility

I really dont know how to cultivate humility and keep my both feet on ground.I easily go onto cloud nine even for small accomplishments(ofcourse there have been only small accomplishments in my life no big ones) and feel great for myself.I get very much embarassed afterwards.This is decreasing my self esteem.I always look for reputation and show factor and never the real thing.Please help me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.2.51 (talk) 09:32, 16 January 2008 (UTC)