Talk:Chow mein

This is wrong. Note:

• There may indeed be a "real" Chinese noodle-related dish with a name sounding like chow mein.
• This is en.wikipedia.org, the English wikipedia, not cn.wikipedia.org
• In English, the term "lo mein" is the dish containing soft noodles.
• In English, "chow mein" is normally lacking in noodles (it has a small amount of pale thin sauce though)

In other words, if the "real" Chinese dish with noodles is pronounced "chow mein", then the Chinese "chow mein" is the English "lo mein" and I don't know if there is a Chinese name for the dish called "chow mein" in English.

Rarely, fast food places may add crunchy noodles on top of chow mein, but this is not exactly standard. It's an add-on that appears to be going out of style.

I'd fix this with a simple move, except that I can't tell if the Chinese characters need to be adjusted. I can delete them if need be; perhaps the reader should just use cn.wikipedia.org if they want to see the Chinese characters.

• I googled several recipes for chow mein and they all contain noodles. Kingdom of Loathing recipes contain noodles as well. I don't see any point in moving the page. Grue 08:43, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Speaking from my personal experience, only: In California, the noodle dish is "chow mein," while in New York, Massachusetts, and other parts of the Eastern U.S., the same dish is referred to as "lo mein" while "chow mein" is the noodleless dish with pale thin sauce.

Thank God we have Wikipedia, allow a chow mein expert to bring some light to this argument. While I have not had the west coast chow mein, the east coaster posting above has missed one crucial argument for the noodle based chow mein. Think back to the last time you ordered a small chicken or shrimp chow mein. You might have forked out the white rice onto a plate, poured on the contents of the chow mein. Perhaps you reached into the bag and grabbed a plastic fork, maybe some soy sauce. Was there anything else in that bag? Think very carefully. Yes, there is a small bag (that many people discard) with some crunchy, fried noodles. There are you fried noodles my friend. Next time, test one for freshness (or should I say staleness) and top your chow mein with some delicious fried noodles and soy sauce. Your taste buds might just thank me. Modesty84 17:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

San Francisco

Sure it wasn't chop suey that was invented in San Francisco? AlbertCahalan 04:56, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

It appears that Chow Mein was invented in the United States, at least according Iris Chang, in The Chinese in America. Apparently, a Chinese cook accidently dropped a batch of noodles in a pot of simmering oil and it became a hit with the customers. Chang cites two sources:

• Imogene L. Lim and John Eng-Wong, "Chow Mein Sandwiches: Chinese American Entrepreneurship in Rhode Island," Origins & Destinations, pp. 417-35
• Peter Kwong, The New Chinatown (New York: Hill and Wang, 1987, first edition, and 1996, revised edition), p. 34

However, Chang is a controversial auther, so it may be well to check these two and maybe secondary sources as well to confirm this. --Yuje 02:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

If Chow mein as a specific dish is supposed invented in the US, while we all know there are countless 炒面s of various styles in Chinese cuisine, is it then appriopriate to split this article into two for better clarity?--Huaiwei 04:14, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it would do to describe the specific Chow Mein dish in one section, and in another section state that 炒麵 in Chinese is a generic term for many different kinds of stir-fried noodle dishes, perhaps giving descriptions and examples. It should also be noted in places in the US that have large Chinese communities (and therefore "authentic" food catered to ethnic Chinese), chow mein and chow fun 炒粉 (and sometimes chow fan 炒飯) are also used as generic term per the Chinese sense. --Yuje 05:17, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Or is it better for the page title to be Fried noodles and Fried rice instead?--Huaiwei 05:29, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Allegedly, some varieties of Chow Mein don't even contain noodles. Being from one of the aforementioned areas, I've never actually seen or tried this dish, so I can't comment, though. If splitting the article, though, the usual translation would be stir-fried noodles, not fried noodles. The only objection I might have is that such a title doesn't make the distinction between 炒麵 and 炒粉.--Yuje 05:43, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes they are stir-fried, but so is Fried Rice, which is still "erronously" refered to as "fried". Either we may split them, or have a general article on fried noodles and a section on Chow mein instead, such as the example in fried rice? I understand some dishes dont even contain noodles, but being named Chow mein is just as confusing anyway.--Huaiwei 05:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

The difference being that fried noodles usually refers to pan-fried noodles, such as Hong Kong fried noodles, 香港煎麵. But never mind; I went ahead to create the fried noodles page, and noted the difference between the two. --Yuje 15:18, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Fried rice can also be pan-fried rice as well, if you did not realise. Btw, does "fried noodles" usually refer to pan fried noodles? Even the Fried noodles page does not seem to support this suggestion.--Huaiwei 16:12, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

That's because I just wrote it. --Yuje 16:33, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I know. It does seem like its mainly stir-fried rather than pan-fried thou.--Huaiwei 16:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Removing a stub

I'm removing the Hong Kong-related article stub because there is no difference between this being a dish from China or a dish from Hong Kong. Their cultural is nearly identical, especially in cuisine. Nothing special here. Let me know why you disagree if you do. Pandemic 07:15, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Hong Kong and China have the same culture? Are you mad? In terms of food, the food eaten in HK is far more western - though it doesnt taste anything like you would get in the west (Europe, US etc) and they still eat Chicken Feet, Sharks Fin etc - compared to the surrounding area where cats, dogs, snakes and virtually every organ of every farm animal is found on the menu.

Aye buddy, no offence but that - "their cultural is nearly identical" - was probably one of the more ignorant things I've heard to date. GeneralChan 09:20, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Picture

That picture looks like Lo Mein, not Chow Mein. --RLent 21:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Bean-sprout variety

I know of several Chinese restaurants in the northeast US which serve a Chow Mein which does not have noodles at all - it is mainly bean sprouts and vegetables instead. Most east coast Chinese places I've seen refer to the dish described here as "Lo Mein", while Chinese places I've been to on the west coast have never heard of "Lo Mein", yet serve essentially the same dish under the name "Chow Mein". Has anyone else noticed this discrepency? Lurlock 04:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Caribbean style

People in Trinidad, Guyana and Jamaica (& probably elsewhere in the region, I think Cuba has a very vibrant Chinese style cuisine native to the country) have some "Chiny" dishes, including chow mein which contains noodles. Unfortunately there is no mention in this article. --Mista-X 01:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Chow mein vs Lo mein

There seems to be a huge discrepancy here. I'm a Chinese American, and the food that I know as "chow mein" is actually the food described in the lo mein article. I'd never even heard of lo mein until I ordered chow mein at a restaurant, got the food described on this article, and ended up in a long discussion with my friends about what in the hell lo mein is and how is it different from chow mein and what the hell is this crap that the waiter just brought me?

It seems that the terminology "chow mein" and "lo mein" as described in these articles mainly applies to westernized Chinese restaurants. I think we need to look up what these dishes are in the original Chinese and add that to these articles. Viltris (talk) 06:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh yeah, and for those of you who claim that "chow mein" is a dish with no noodles... The next time you order "chow mein", if you didn't get noodles with it, then you just got cheated. 'Cause "chow mein" is Chinese for "fried noodles". And if you ordered "chow mein" and didn't get noodles, then you didn't get what you ordered. (Same if it's not fried, although it's a lot harder to demonstrate that something is not fried than it is to demonstrate that it has no noodles.) Viltris (talk) 06:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

K, after some really brief google searching, I've found a source which explains it: http://chinesefood.about.com/od/chinesedishfaqs/f/lomeinchowmein.htm . Basically, chow mein is stirfried noodles, generally mixed with meats and vegetables in the wok (note that noodles are boiled before they're fried), whereas lo mein noodles generally aren't fried at all and the lo mein dish generally has a thicker sauce.

Also, it should be noted that chow mein and lo mein don't necessarily use different types of noodles. The article also debunks the myth that chow mein is a type of crispy thin noodles.

I am inclined to believe this article as this is consistent with both my knowledge of the Chinese language and my personal experiences of eating authentic chow mein. I just hope no one denies the accuracy of the source just because the author appears to be not Chinese.

I am currently in the process of adding the source's knowledge to the articles Chow mein and Lo mein. Viltris (talk) 06:48, 27 February 2008 (UTC)