Talk:Dublin Bus

Pics

I am considering requesting permission from this website's admin to use if's excellent picture archive here. I'd like people to have a look and determine if the pics would be relevant here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 159.134.113.91 (talk • contribs) .

I would say go for it, hopefully they will let us use the pictures withing the guidelines for image use copyrights or something. Maybe can get some Bus Éireann images from the same site, just dont go overboard with to many images with the small amount of txt. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 03:56, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Comfort section

An anonymous editor thinks that I have being unduly harsh on the comfort section; so lets reproduce it here (labelled for ease, original formulation of text) and give my reasons:

Most services are on double-decker buses. The conditions on Dublin Bus vehicles can be described as basic.Template:Fn

• Seats are configured together tightly, this can cause discomfort to taller passengers.Template:Fn
• Standing is not allowed upstairs or on the stairs but this rule is often not enforced.Template:Fn
• On many rush hour services, some passengers must stand downstairs.Template:Fn
• There is no air conditioning.Template:Fn
• Smoking has been forbidden on all services since the 1980s. This rule is largely respected by passengers.Template:Fn
• Specified seats must be conceded to the elderly or disabled.Template:Fn
• Most buses can accomodate (only) one wheelchair passenger.Template:Fn

Template:Fnb From the travelling I have done through Britain and Ireland conditions are not basic, they are pretty much the same as everywhere else. Someone might be misled into thinking people are hoarded as if into cattle trucks. I don’t think this evaluation (i have made) is unreasonable or outlandish, standards are pretty much "bog standard" - boringly the same as elsewhere. Template:Fnb Again seats are very much the same density as most bus services and people are not unduly squeezed in together, remember that it is a short range bus service (10/15 kilometres at the most), on some of the countries best roads and streets, not a cross country service. Template:Fnb People rarely stand up stairs but people don’t wait for the bus to get to a stop before they leave their seat, else they would miss it. Again its a short range bus service, if people would rather stand upstairs and pay for the privilege that’s their choice. Template:Fnb This is a fact of modern travel, rush hour capacity is not infinite. In any modern city this is accepted as a fact of public transport. Some people would rather stand downstairs than sit upstairs. Template:Fnb Its Dublin, its never hot enough to need air conditioning (certainly not to justify fitting out a fleet). Very few urban buses are air conditioned. Template:Fnb This remark is essentially trivial and and such self defeating as it adds little. Template:Fnb What sensible, able bodied person would not? Template:Fnb How many wheelchair bays should we have? two, three, four... If their is a reason why wheel chaired bound people do not come out more I doubt its this.

Maybe on the positive side it could be condensed down to relevant points, but as a single paragraph. Any comments from other parties. Djegan 20:43, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not a registered user but I'm no more anonymous than DJEGAN. I don't consider the treatment harsh, but somewhat snobbish. To address his or her points:

Template:Fnb Some services are better e.g. Scandinavia and some are worse e.g. Eastern Europe. The cattle trucks analogy is entirely DJEGAN's and it's an unnecessarily emotive statement. There may be a better way of describing the level of comfort - if so, someone will do this. Template:Fnb (Seating Density) That's a reasonable explanation but just because something can be explained with some logic does not mean that it should go unsaid. Template:Fnb Dublin Bus byelaws forbid people standing upstairs. A literal interpretation such as DJEGAN's would obviously not be practical. The byelaw is in place for safety reasons. It is a fact that it is sometimes enforced and sometimes not. If DJEGAN has a difficulty with it then perhaps he or she should contribute to a more appropriate article or a discussion web-site. Template:Fnb (Standing at rush hour) The section doesn't express a view. Template:Fnb The point is still factual. Some people find it very hot in crowded services. The section expresses no opinion about whether air-conditioning is a good or a bad thing, feasible or unfeasible. Template:Fnb (Smoking) This is a fact. Some laws in Ireland are not enforced or respected, this one is. How does DJEGAN define "trivial"? If the section said that most seats are dark blue but that a few are light blue, then I would agree that would be trivial. Template:Fnb My experience on Dublin Bus services is that many people refuse to allow the elderly, pregnant women, or parents with children to sit down. The section doesn't comment on this, it says that the byelaws state that able-bodied people using certain seats must concede them when necessary. Template:Fnb (Wheelchair bays) This is a statement of fact. It expresses no opinion. DJEGAN's opinion may or may not be correct but that should stop readers forming their own opinions which may be different than DJEGAN's. Is this a bad thing?

There are many potential substantial sections that could be added to this article. DJEGAN is obviously an intelligent person and surely contributing to this article positively would be an excellent use of his or her talents. May I suggest sections such as:

• market share of the travelling public
• strategy
• company organisation
• finance
• environmental policy
• relations with local and central government
• violence against staff.

There is an opportunity to change this into an excellent article. Any comments from other parties.

Theres an opportunity to turn it in to an excellent article, but including tedious shite about the seating density and what rules are obeyed isn't a means to that end.

Its a completely pointless and bordering on obsessive section. --Kiand 00:57, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Totaly agree, the only thing i see is an anon is out to make some kinda point about their experiencs on Dublin Bus, as show in his responce above. Infomation about such as seating arangment would only be useful if their as a section on the fleet and such. Also the anon complains about other not adding in information, i dont see the user taking up the torch and adding the infrmation either, instead he adds basicaly trivial information about comfort, that could be said about praticaly every bus system in the world. na being that it is not exclusive to DB, and in the sutrrent form that it is written in, is not worth even listing. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 05:46, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Trivial/obsessive/sutrrent(?)/tedious are your opinions. Not everyone is familiar with Dublin Bus Services e.g. DJEGAN's point about air conditioning is fair but an Australian reader may not know much about the Irish climate. Similarly, wheelchair accomodation is of interest to some people but obviously not other in this discussion. My edits to the article competely lacked POV, that was only expressed here. If I have time then I will initiate the headings that I mentioned but some people appear to have more time than me...

If an australian wants to know about transport in Dublin I suggest they read a travel guide, not an encyclopedia. --Kiand 19:26, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Nice to see that Kiand can express himself without resorting to personal attacks. That's an interesting point, if only editors and readers of Wikipedia agreed with you. If someone were to go through every article to remove all 'Travel Guide' type material then it would be an endless task. I don't think we're going to agree on this, I don't find the arguments presented at all persuasive and vice versa, obviously. If you look at "The five pillars of Wikipedia", there are no conventions of the type DJEGAN is trying to enforce. Remember, all the offending material is in one clearly marked section, for goodness sake just ignore it if you're not interested. I don't see any point in pursuing this discussion - there are much more worthwhile things to do. I still wonder what "sutrrent " was supposed to mean though......

Criticism

I'm changing the criticism section around a little bit. I'm changing "lack of punctuality" back to "unpunctuality". "Unpunctuality" is actually a word, and is a better usage for the circumstances than "lack of punctuality". You can be punctual or unpunctual, but you can't have punctuality, and hence, can't lack punctuality. ALSO: The establishment of the fact of "lacking punctuality" in this clause, also made it look like the drivers lacked unpleasantness and apathy in the next clause, which is, I believe, contrary to what the author wanted.

I'm returning "various perceived deficiencies" to the sentence, since I believe it maintains impartiality.

I'm splitting the opening sentence into two parts, to make both less cumbersome.

I'm correcting "unpleasentness" to "unpleasantness".

I'm changing the phrasing of the route diversions clause around a bit, to make it more orthodox.

That's all, for now. Fionnmatthew 22:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

FM104

I have removed this section. It is of no relevance to the article. If someone wants to include a section on advertising in general the Strawberry Alarm Clock thing might be worthy of a passing mention.Armada104 (talk) 20:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)