Talk:East New York, Brooklyn

Citation Needed For Crime Alleged To Have Occurred

Please someone provide some evidence (newspaper article, etc.) of the serious and horriffic crimes alleged to have occurred in this obviously desperate neighborhood.

There is no evidence. Those crimes didn't occur there. The user who added that paragraph, User:24.94.232.164, also put the exact same paragraph (with street names changed) in the article about Milwaukee, Wisconsin. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Milwaukee%2C_Wisconsin&diff=prev&oldid=17835338

Moncrief July 4, 2005 18:02 (UTC)

Dramatic Turnaround?

Please clarify:

• What you mean by "dramatic turnaround." The description of the neighborhood as given is still very bleak; is it somehow better than it used to be? Worse? How? It's not explained.

• What does "prior to 15 years ago" mean? Do you mean "in the last 15 years"? "Prior to" means "before." If the turnaround occurred more than 15 years ago, just say when it occurred. Moncrief 00:22, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

I also don't understand "dramatic turnaround", seems like a misnomer to me. I was born there and my parents moved us out in 1964.

The decline in crime-while perceptible-is not as dramatic as some people would like to portray.

The neighborhood is still home to the most crime-ridden, deadliest police precinct in the city, and several weeks after the New York Times' Metro section ran a flattering portrait about the neighborhood-portraying it as the next Park Slope, Williamsburg, Red Hook, etc., in other words, a hub for potential gentrification-nearly a dozen people were murdered over the course of one weekend. Ruthfulbarbarity 01:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

East New York did make a major turn around, this article had to reflect the actions during the 1970"s and the early 1980"s .If you check the crime stats at the 75th prescient, you will see the crime rate has changed substantially. I purchased my home at 389k and the present homes located on Loring Avenue behind the Hip center sold at 759K. Cobble Hill Condo's are going up on Linden Blvd. I see a different light on this neighborhood, a big difference from what the article reflects .If anyone is going to type any information concerning Demographics at least do your homework and stay current with facts. I must clarify what I mean by a major (turnaround) is referring to the late 60's, 70’s and early 80's as compared to the present, just in case I was a little vague. For the family that moved from East New York in the 60's ,they could not be in touch with the present picture because no one would purchase a home in a crime ridden neighborhood for 759k as mentioned earlier.

Although crime in the neighborhood has has gone down it is still very high. Most of the housing in the neighborhood does not cost 759k either. That newer market rate housing is bought as an investment by investors and rented out to the community. Most of the newer townhouses built over the years are subsidized and much of the housing is only for the low income demographic. Most of the people rent in this community and cannot afford high prices. People who can afford those prices are not willing to live in East NY. Crime and other social issues are still big problems in East NY. The majority of people living in the community are struggling economically. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwiki718 (talk • contribs) 07:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Import Export

When and how were the new unfair import-export rates imposed? Did they have a role in the decline of manufacturing? It needs a specific link for the specific law or time, rather than a generic one for international trade. Jim.henderson 21:34, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Southeast Brooklyn? East New York is located in East Brooklyn

Flatbush Avenue goes to southeastern Brooklyn. Gerritson Beach and maybe even Canarsie are in southeastern Brooklyn. But East New York and City Line are in eastern Brooklyn not southeastern. Jim.henderson 04:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Gardeners Association

I didn't put in the now deleted plug, and agree that it didn't belong as being too much an advertisement. I do think there ought to a link to an advertising site for the association, and have inserted one, hoping someone else can replace it with a better one. Jim.henderson 21:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality and Clarity?

As far as I can tell, the article seems to take an informative and unbiased path at first, but then basically says African Americans and Puerto Ricans vastly increased the crime rate in the 50s and 60s. In the end, this is all to be made somewhat better by the fact the rents have increased and major retailers have shown up in the neighborhood.

Exacerbating this is the fact that the major sections of the article are called simply "Ghetto" and "Rebirth". I see one argument by one city planner, a rebuttal according to NYPD crime reports that I'm sure could be interpreted differently, and an abrupt closer about how though the quality of life has improved, crime is still high.

I feel this could certainly use a rewrite that incorporates the initial "Early History" paragraph, makes a mention of its problems with crime but doesn't intend to connect it to a racial element, and sticks to simple facts about the geography and current makeup of the neighborhood. Bridgetown 23:03, 5 May 2007 (UTC)Bridgetown

Yes, it is something of a doom and gloom piece, and maybe my recent elimination of the unnecessary master header exacerbated the starkness of the remaining section headers. Hey, if you think it's dark now, you should look back to last year when the Thibalt doctrine of powerful men and ethnic change wrecking a viable neighborhood was practically the whole article. I added the more dispassionate 18th and 19th century material which I came across while looking for slightly related railroad matters. Notice there is practically nothing about the early 20th century; I wish someone would find such material.

More important, the "rebirth" section is thin. One could try digging up some sunshine and marmalade material, but perhaps a simple, dispassionate but integrated description of modern life would work better. For example, shopping, restaurants, entertainment, fire department, schools other than the endangered HS, hospitals, parks, banking, political representatives, etc. Like, there are a few sentences about the "Gateway" suburban style shopping mall on the Bay with chain stores, but are there any central shopping streets inland? Any factories still operating? Understand, I don't know anyone who lives in ENY; I just bicycle through there sometimes with my eyes open on my way to or from Jamaica or Grand Army Plaza or Bushwick or Ozone Park, or read about the neighborhood and once or twice shopped at the mall. Jim.henderson 06:21, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Well East New York is a poor neighborhood. Not much has changed. Yes subsidized townhouses have been built on vacant lots and more poor people have moved into rehabilitated residential structures. Yes low income commercial establishments have come into the area reflecting the need due to population density. Some industry in recent years. That's about it though. All other social problems are still there. Crime went down, but it's still high. Everything else has not changed much at all, somethings have gotten worse like poverty. Living cost are higher then they have ever been primarily due to housing expenses. Incarceration, education, teen pregnancy, drug addiction, language isolated families, poverty, crime, overcrowding, homelessness, hunger, all still big problems. Wikiwiki718 (talk) 03:34, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Current Crime Info

As of February 10, 2008

From a NY Times Article, 1 year ago
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/05/nyregion/05frisk.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1.
In the 75th Precinct, in the East New York section of Brooklyn, which has the city’s highest violent crime rate and some of its poorest neighborhoods, the police stopped, questioned or frisked someone last year, on average, about once every 24 minutes. Article also states, Last year the department began a concerted push, which included adding officers, to try to reduce crime in the 75th Precinct, which had 28 murders in 2006. In the First Precinct, there was one murder. Here are the crime statistics from one week ago.
Analysis
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs075pct.pdf.
There were 33 murders, 42 rapes, 834 robberies, 675 felony assaults in the 75th's area of responsibility in 2007 (3,250 crimes combined). In 2008 (From 1/1 - 2/10), there has been 1 murder, 8 rapes, 75 robberies, 65 felony assaults, 49 burglaries, 89 Grand Larcenies, and 35 G.L.A (Grand Larceny Attempts?).
Reasonable Conclusion
Some of these numbers are down, while others are up. Overall the numbers are down historically. Looking at the figures and my personal knowledge, I wouldn't classify East New York as a safe neighborhood. I think it would be more accurate to say it is much safer than it has been in the past. It still logs 3 times more crime than Canarsie for instance.
Stats for all the NYC precincts
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/crime_prevention/crime_statistics.shtml. Angrymansr (talk) 13:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I think what people fail to realize is those numbers will fluctuate up and down. Overall murders have been on the up tick in northeast Brooklyn, especially East NY and Brownsville, over the past few years. The problem is East NY contains a very significant pocket of poverty the crime is just an end product. In the end though, that is a hell of a lot of violent crime in such a small area. As for the comparison to 1990 on the compstat site, it's out of date. Why not compare versus the last 3 years? There is a reason the NYPD specifically uses those dates which are the worst on record. First of all most of those early 90's murders were drug related directly correlating to the crack epidemic. Secondly more people live from their wounds today. So yes crime is down in the area versus the peak but still VERY significant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwiki718 (talk • contribs) 04:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

It is a lot of crime. There's no other way to spin it. It is a bit odd how the chart shows no consistency to the years it lists. 1990(start), 1995 (5 years later), 1998(3 years later), 2001(3 years later), 2007(6 years later). All those years show a decrease from the period prior. I guess that could be interpreted as selective statistics to show crime coming down. I am curious as to what happened in 2002-2006. Angrymansr (talk) 14:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Homicides in northeastern Brooklyn and the Bronx have been on the rise overall over the past few years. It is also common knowledge in these areas that many other felony crimes on the compstat site are reclassified or downgraded. I personally believe this crime increase is due to slow displacement of low income renters to these boroughs from Manhattan. An overwhelming percentage of affordable housing (low income) is being built in these two boroughs. In Manhattan there is a severe affordable housing shortage which is not being addressed. In Brooklyn this housing is more specifically being built in Brownsville and East NY. Areas like East NY and Brownsville were once full of vacant residential structures. Most have been rehabilitated and now house low income renters. Many lots have been built up with subsidized townhouses and apartment buildings. Market rate townhouses are bought and then rented out. So you have new lower income people moving into these areas, creating overpopulation. It causes tension among the locals, remember these are primarily low income high poverty neighborhoods. A simple way to put it is, some kid from West Harlem moves to East NY after his building is condemned after a suspicious fire. He moves to East NY and becomes a new face. Gets into a dispute with a local and eventually gets killed as events escalate.

Also to add on to the level of violent crime in East NY, some of East NY is manufacturing districts where little if anything happens. Usually just theft, mostly from warehouses and vehicles. Also there are some "quieter" blocks which do get effected by the areas overall crime (mostly robberies, thefts, G.L.A.'s) but are not known for extreme street level violence (constant shootings, constant robberies, ect). At the same time you have extremely crime prone areas usually certain intersections, housing developments, certain blocks. So the level of crime geographically is among the very worst in the nation overall, rate wise certain sections have higher then others. The Pink Houses for example with 4,000 people had something like 5 murders in 2005. So overall while crime is a very serious problem across the entire neighborhood some areas are dealing with extreme levels of violence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwiki718 (talk • contribs) 21:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)