Talk:Absolut Vodka

Absolut Citron

I notice that there is a working link for Absolut Citron in the list of flavors- but it links back to this page. On a similar note... does it really make sense to request articles for the various flavors of Absolut? Wouldn't they all be condemned to stub-dom? Kaitwospirit 01:42, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup

The only listed source which is not an Absolut-owned corporate webpage only supports the section on name origins. This article reads at times like an ad - and not a brilliant one at that.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.161.96.161 (talk • contribs).

I concur. I replaced the (CITATION?) messages with the template and added a cleanup tag to the article. Aep 03:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Absolut PEPPAR

Apparently, the person who added the note about Absolut PEPPAR has never tasted the stuff. It is most certainly not chili pepper-flavored, but black pepper-flavored. It's my favorite of the lot.

tell someone that cares. HaereMai (talk) 00:01, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Dead Link

In the marketing section it links to AbsolutCollectors.com which apparently isn't up anymore. Also: AbsolutCollectors.com is listed in the external links...should i remove this, does anyone know what is going on with this website?

GMoonit 23:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

100 Proof

I distinctly remember 100 proof Absolut in 1996 or earlier. Came in a bottle with red lettering instead of blue. So why is it down as being introduced in 2007? Angryscientist 06:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Indeed there is the red labeled 100% proof and the black & silver labeled 100 % proof. For the differences i dunno.

I agree. I have been drinking 100-proof Absolut since 2005.

Yes, it certainly was not launched in '07. There are online reviews of this vodka out there dating back much further. [1]. I removed the reference, and also made a minor change to the name of this variety. It is not officially called Absolute 100. It is simply called Absolute Vodka. The differentiation is in the label itself--red coloring and the labeled notation of 100 proof liquor. Stivo 01:18, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

The new bottle is a re-launch of the product, it is to attract a vodka to the male demographic. and is spelt as with all products "ABSOLUT" not 'absolute' as quoted above. The new product is called officially ABSOLUT 100.

That explains a lot. I work in a state store in PA and someone asked me what the difference was between the 100-proof Absolut with red lettering and Absolut 100, and the information on the bottles was exactly the same. That's what I was researching. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.172.186.128 (talk) 15:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Absolut New Orleans

Absolut New Orleans needs to be added to the flavor lineup. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.43.94.13 (talk) 00:20, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Semi Protect

Could someone protect this page to new users? Apparently some non-notable bloggers have taken offense to their recent ad campaign and have repeatedly vandalized this page.--147.126.95.167 (talk) 20:29, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

WHY would you have to "protect" this page? IT seems top me that those that want to "protect this page" have a political agenda and that agenda is NOT the truth. It seems as if to me this page actually is endorsing the "reconquista" movement. If WIKI is going to survive, it needs to be on truth. This was a STUPID thing for ABSOLUT to do with 50% of their market share in the UNITED STATES. It serves a PERFECT business lesson of what not to do i.e., DO NOT ALIENATE YOUR PAYING CUSTOMERS" and then, expect the customers to by hook line and sinker a political agenda cleverly disquised as an "ad". This is about politics, NOT knowledge or documentation. A pox on your "scholarly" activities as a charade of political activism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.169.187.128 (talk) 23:51, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

As a person from los angeles, I can assure you the HATRED of illegal aliens and GARBAGE like absolute is anything BUT "white nationalists". Most American citizens of ALL colors dispise that filthy toilet called Mexico, strangely enough, so do Mexicans, that's why they move here ILLEGALLY.

Absolute can write LA off it's profit lists...for good. We have started a word of mouth boycott that has caused many bars to STOP carrying it!!! Smoke that up you stupid Swedish pipe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.208.169.231 (talk • contribs)

Considering the fact that Absolut has issued a statement on their website regarding the matter([2]), and it has been mentioned by the Los Angeles Times ([3]), I think it is a bit more than a few "non-notable" bloggers. I myself am rather incensed at the ad, and will go out of my way to not buy their product in the future. I've added a segment on the issue to the article. -- Grandpafootsoldier (talk) 21:48, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

It was in LA Time's blog, an opinion site, and the other source used was a blog as well. If there are some neutral points of view, like a newspaper article, a news story, etc, I would consider keeping it, but for right now, I'd keep my emotions in check about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.127.11 (talk) 05:37, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Absolut has issued a response defending the ad on their website ([4]). I think it's time to stop blaming messengers and let it go up. IMSnooping (talk) 12:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Only somewhere like wikipedia could consider Michelle Malkin, perhaps the most popular conservative blogger, who has hosted The O'Reilly Factor on Fox News multiple times to be a 'non-notable blogger'. Just more Absolut proof of Wikipedia's liberal bias. Sniper Fox (talk) 20:23, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I never called her "non-notable." I will call her extreme, radical, eccentric and other things; but she's certainly notable among her fanbase. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:37, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

"notable among her fanbase" as well as the general public. Best selling author. Major blogger. But of course Orangemike's the typical liberal; conservatives are only "notable among their fanbase." I also couldn't help but notice that as soon as the TRUTH began coming out, it was liberal (self described per his userpage) "Hippie" Orangemike that shut down the edits for the article. Why, it cannot be a news story, must be something made up by the "white nationalists" or "white supremicists" (notice how the liberals love to claim they are above name calling, yet immediately reach for it) and Wikipedia in general, and Orangemike in particular, simply cannot have them adding or editing to include the story. So, down the memory hole it goes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.205.94.10 (talk • contribs)

A bit of perspective: Absolut has been in business for some 130 years offering middle brow vodka and vodka based products to the masses. They've offered whimsical advertising of every description for years.

Given their long history, there is no way a single ad campaign (or a single ad in it) gone unnoticed by all but a small contingent of white supremacists and other miscellaneous right wingers looking for their "controversy" du jour could rise to the level of notability that would merit its inclusion in the page. Given that absolut-ly no one cares outside of the Malkin set, a rather fringe political demographic to be sure, I'd have to second the motion to protect the page until the "issue" is forgotten (i.e. next week). The rabbit in the suitcase (talk) 02:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

What exactly are you censors trying to protect Absolut from? The truth is the truth -- and the truth about this ad is no less notable than references on the article to any of their ads. Are you afraid of people knowing the truth? The LA Times has reported on this issue more than once. Absolut has issued two statements -- one defending the ad, one apologizing for it and announcing its withdrawal. Whether you're animated by the ad or not is of no consequence -- it's a notable event in Absolut's history and it belongs on the article.IMSnooping (talk) 17:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

"a small contingent of white supremacists" Gosh. No obvious bias behind your editing. Nope. 67.135.49.254 (talk) 15:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I will agree that the article is a bit chatty in that it includes references to some ad campaigns for which Absolut is not especially noted. This is a weakness of the text to be sure. All the more reason that it should not be compounded with more nonsense like it.

The truth, as you say, is that the Mexico ads are being flogged by people with a fairly clear political agenda and that within a few days no one except a small political fringe of right blog readers will remember this ever happened. Indeed, the entire purpose of edits regarding the Mexico ads is to try to perpetuate and expand the supposed outrage into the mainstream. As such, the edits are fundamentally non-encyclopedic in nature. The rabbit in the suitcase (talk) 22:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

To put it more simply: The edits including this Mexico ad business amount to political activism. See Wikipedia:SOAP etc. There's also an NPOV issue: If the interest in the subject is restricted to American white nationalists, it seems to me that its inclusion, being an assertion of its notability to a general audience, is just not justifiable within the context of an encyclopedia taking a neutral point of view. The rabbit in the suitcase (talk) 23:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay - political activism is banned, correct? Well then why on earth is there an entry that discusses the political activism of ABSOLUT and its support of the GLBT community? Anything having to do with nigh-communist left-wing ideology is somehow not political activism? Despite the webpage clearly implying that ABSOLUT's political activism on that issue is correct? You can't have it both ways. If a factual entry on the Reconquista ad can't be there because of "political activism" than neither can an entry on the embrace of GLBT community because that is just as much political activism. User:Cameron Mount —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.94.67.203 (talk) 21:44, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Right, but the entrance in the political sphere was made not by "white nationalists" (?), but by Absolut. They're the ones who ran the overtly political ad. It's not as if people are making this up about Absolut. They made their own beds and there's no reason that something notable that Absolut did shouldn't find its way onto their article. And you're wrong that the matter is only of interest to a small sliver of people. Go to Absolut's website and read the comments to their statement. Last I looked, there were about 1000 comments, from people who lay claim to any number of political stripes.

I'd feel differently if somebody twisted something Absolut did. But it's a factual report about a factual ad. And a great deal of this particular article relates to Absolut's adverstising (as it the case with many consumer products companies).

In any event, you're blaming the messenger. This addition is entirely in keeping with WP's guidelines.IMSnooping (talk) 04:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Disagree completely, utterly with the rabbit. At Yahoo, as of Mon., Apr 7, 9:36 PM ET, the Absolut reconquista ad was the most emailed news story, having been emailed 6,241 times: "Absolut vodka pulls ad showing California in Mexico / Reuters - Mon Apr 7, 9:36 PM ET / Sent 6,241 times." Most Emailed Story. Not just for The rabbit's name-called groups. Wikpedguy (talk) 20:10, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe that the description of a liquor advertisement by a quirky advertising agency as "the... reconquista ad" shows where the POV pushing is. And on a planet of 6 billion people, 6,241 e-mails is barely a rounding error. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:37, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Remember Wikireaders: Orangemike shutting down edits about the ad is not "POV". Noting that the ad is directly related to the push by many in the Mexican community to reconquest the southern U.S. somehow is "POV pushing". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.205.94.10 (talk) 21:06, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

If there are some neutral points of view, like a newspaper article, a news story, etc, I would consider keeping it, but for right now, I'd keep my emotions in check about it.

How about these for news paper articles and news stories?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-absolut6apr06,1,4346417.story (no this is not the LAT tblog) http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0729018920080408 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346964,00.html

Yes this is a real news story and not some blog story as you seem to think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.200.91.129 (talk) 13:18, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

While it was suggested that this is insignificant considering Absolut's 130 year history, the fact that they have only been in the United States since 1979 truly indicates their lack of political sensitivity for Americans and the issues facing us today. This new campaign of theirs makes it perfectly clear that they were willing to disrespect Americans in order to gain favor with Mexicans. Absolut's willingness to stir up political controversy in the United States in order to sell more vodka in Mexico makes the mention of this campaign politically relevant to the history of Absolut. [User:Phredd 10:01 8 April 2008] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phredd (talk • contribs) 14:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The issue has now been covered by several international news agencies, including the Associated Press, Reuters, CNN, and Fox News. So keeping it out of the Wikipedia article is in itself a political viewpoint. The story belongs in the article, and a picture of the ad does as well, considering that, despite the ad being intended for the Mexican market, it is now likely the most well know Absolut ad in America. DesScorp (talk) 15:09, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

"The rabbit..." should be banned from this discussion. Rather than discuss the substance of this issue, the rabbit is stereotyping and race-baiting by suggesting that everyone who is for these additions is a "white supremacist" "right winger" "MIchelle Malkin" reader (the latter nonetheless a complement). The rabbit continues to spout that this issue has only been raised by a small political fringe group. Since the rabbit's premise is unsupported bigotry, his arguments are also unsupported and should be ignored. Phredd (talk) 20:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

This is "Liberal Intellectual Fascism". It truly boggles the mind. Never thought those 3 words would ever be put together for that meaning.

Einstien —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.169.187.128 (talk) 00:51, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

As there seem to be quite a lot of Malkin enthusiasts pushing the issue, perhaps a compromise is in order.

To say the ads sparked "controversy," in my view, is to deliberately obscure the nature and extent of such controversy. As such, I have clarified the origins of the issue (as given in the extant reference) so that it is clear exactly how the controversy arose, who was involved, and more or less what their claims to having taken offense were based in. As long as it does not appear that a large number of people in the mainstream of American political discourse were involved, the section's temporary inclusion is not so egregious. The matter should certainly be revisited after time has passed, however, so a determination can be made as to whether this is something that ought to remain in Wikipedia for the remainder of its existence. The rabbit in the suitcase (talk) 16:03, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me that a few of the posters need to be disciplined here for not following the wikipedia talk page guidelines. "non-notable bloggers" is a disparaging opinion and unless it is cited with a source should be removed by the anon poser.

"white supremacists and other miscellaneous right wingers" is a perfect example of what not to post by the guidelines, specifically: "No insults: Do not make ad hominem attacks, such as calling someone an idiot or a fascist. Instead, explain what is wrong with an edit and how to fix it." "The rabbit in the suitcase" should be banned from this site for failing to meet the basic guidelines required here and certainly should not be editing an article with such a clear bias.

Finally, Orange Mike needs to be removed from editing this page for obvious bias such as, "Especially since one of the loudest nationalists in this whole silly hissyfit, Malkin, is herself a non-white immigrant. "White" here seems to be shorthand for 'jingoist/chauvinist/anti-Mexican'." Just because you don't care for the justified criticism doesn't mean it is not important to others. There should be no place for such comments here.

Why are you so offended? I was pointing out that it was not fair to call her a "white nationalist" when she's neither white nor a native-born American herself. I was saying that somebody seemed to be using "white" as a slur, and that this was inappropriate. How does that make me the biased one? --Orange Mike | Talk 17:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

As for the article itself, the mention of "Mexican immigration critic Michelle Malkin" has nothing to do with the ad itself and is used to discredit the criticism. I myself never heard of this person and it is irrelevant to the ad. The ad was released not through Malkin but by Absout themselves in Mexico and elsewhere. Please do not distract from the actual issue itself with such meaningless items.

The word "alleged" is not appropriate here, as it is a well-defined movement. One just has to look at Wikipedias OWN Aztlan article to see this or better yet Absolut vodka's own advertising!

Finally, the "its critics were adamant" comment is just silly and divisive. What the heck is something like that doing here?! (Mundunugu (talk) 17:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC))

My edits to the article are factually accurate. Indeed, Malkin is a critic of Mexican immigration and she did begin the campaign against the ad. Her history of criticism and activism on immigration issues informs her decision to make an issue of the ad. If you wish to remove the word "alleged" from the clause about the reconquista movement, please provide a credible source detailing the nature and extent of that movement. I think this would help readers to evaluate the plausibility of the critics' claims.

The phrase "its critics were adamant" is important in understanding the nature of the campaign against Absolut. They explained their position that the ad was purely fun and games, but this did not satisfy their critics in the least. This, again, informs the nature of the controversy. The rabbit in the suitcase (talk) 17:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

controversial pic from campaign

somebody who knows how to do this, please upload this pic to the abslute page: http://media.monstersandcritics.com/articles/1398461/article_images/absolutad.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.161.192 (talk) 22:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Pathetic when a supposed "scholarly" encycolpedia about documentation, history,and knowledge wuld stoop so low as to take a "political bent" against an outrages sustomer base is outrageous. Remember that the PR wizards that came up with this campaign are professional ad people, they knew exactly what they were doing. What they did not calcualte is just how many people in the United states of America actually LOVE THIS COUNTRY. "America" (the US of A) is 50% of Absolut's market, MExico on the other hand is just 3%. Somebody did not make a proper calculation, and the business is going to fail. As for the veracity of the "reconquista claim, and a Swedish Government owned Socialist vodka producer redrawing a Soverign country's border is clearly the bone headed move of all time. If you go to the Wiki, English, Mexico page, you will see that MExico did not exist until 1821 on "Cinco de Mayo". The "withdrawl" of Spain happened in 1824, after 300 year of Spanish rule. Befroe that "Mexico" simply did not exist. What did exist was a tribal system. After 1824, in the year of 1834 Texas won their independence from Mexico, and threw out the Mexicans. Mexican people living in Texas the "Tejano's" did not want to be governed by Mexico, and were joined by anglo europeans in the fight. The MExican Government lost that territoryu "twice" and was paid for it "twice". A total of $25 million. Mexico in the current state is a third world country with abject corrutpion and poverty, so bad that Mexicans are leaving in droves as about 28% of the Mexican Citizens now live in the United States, that is from the Mexican Consulat. Mexico teaches "reconquista" in their schools to keep their citizens mad at the United States, so the citizens will not see just how corrupt the government is, and risk yet another Mexican Revolution. This is what the ad is about, propaganda, revisionist history, and people jealous of the United States. simple as that.

TIRED OF THIS STUFF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.169.187.128 (talk) 00:02, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

White Nationalists? Really?

I suppose Reuters is run by "white nationalists"? The Independent of London? United Press International? The Local, a SWEDISH newspaper? The L.A. Times?

Absolut value of ad low north of border The Herald-Times, IN MEXICO CITY — The latest advertising campaign in Mexico from Swedish vodka maker Absolut seemed to push all the right buttons south of the US border, ... http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2008/04/08/nationworld.qp-9758035.sto

Absolut vodka pulls ad showing California in Mexico Reuters - 11 hours ago MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - The distillers of Sweden's Absolut vodka have withdrawn an advertisement run in Mexico that angered many US citizens by idealizing ... http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0729018920080408

Storm in a shot glass as advert redraws map of Americas Independent, UK - 14 hours ago By David Usborne in New York A whimsical ad by the makers of Absolut vodka aimed solely at consumers in Mexico has drawn the ire of some ... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/storm-in-a-shot-glass-as-advert-redraws-map-of-americas-805764.html

'Absolut' Arrogance Evening Bulletin, PA - 20 hours ago According to the Swedish vodka maker, the answer is simple: In an Absolut world, Texas' independence would be rescinded, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo ... http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=19460395&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8

Absolut Vodka causes a stir with Mexico ad Gadling, CA - 20 hours ago by Anna Brones Apr 7th 2008 @ 11:16AM Absolut Vodka is known round the world for its creative ad campaigns. With the most recent campaign however, ... http://www.gadling.com/2008/04/07/absolut-vodka-causes-a-stir-with-mexico-ad/

Absolut-ly sorry Independent, UK - Apr 7, 2008 By Leonard Doyle The hilarious campaign slogan, "In an Absolut World", showed a 1830s-era map when Mexico included California, Texas and other southwestern ... http://blogs.independent.co.uk/the_campaign_trailers/2008/04/absolut-ly-sorr.html

The world is not Absolut Daily Vidette, IL - Apr 6, 2008 In an advertising campaign for the Swedish vodka brand, Absolut, targeted for Mexico, a map of the US and Mexico is shown. While the actual act of showing a ... http://www.dailyvidette.com/home/news/2008/04/07/Viewpoint/The-World.Is.Not.Absolut-3305800.shtml

Vodka firm 'sorry' over Mexico advert Scotsman, United Kingdom - Apr 6, 2008 By Mark Stevenson THE Absolut vodka company has apologised for an advertising campaign depicting the south-western United States as part of Mexico, ... http://news.scotsman.com/world/Vodka-firm-39sorry39-over-.3952992.jp

Absolut campaign sparks controversy United Press International - Apr 6, 2008 LOS ANGELES, April 6 (UPI) -- A new marketing campaign for the Swedish vodka Absolut that shows California as part of Mexico has sparked a growing ... http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2008/04/06/absolut_campaign_sparks_controversy/8090/

Mexico reclaims California in Absolut Vodka advert The Local, Sweden - Apr 5, 2008 A print and billboard campaign by Absolut Vodka in Mexico has caused tempers to flare in the United States. Some Americans have called for a boycott of the ... http://www.thelocal.se/10928/20080405/

Sparks continue to fly over Absolut's Mexico ad Los Angeles Times, CA - Apr 5, 2008 The furor over the Absolut vodka Mexican border ad roars on. The Drudge Report posted a link to our post yesterday showing the ad and including the tagline, ... http://feeds.latimes.com/~r/LaPlaza/~3/264592416/sparks-fly-over.html

Vodka Maker Apologizes for Ad Depicting Southwest as Part of Mexico FOXNews - Apr 5, 2008 MEXICO CITY — The Absolut vodka company apologized Saturday for an ad campaign depicting the southwestern US as part of Mexico amid angry calls for a ... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346964,00.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.193.130.16 (talk) 13:27, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

You're right. To call anyone a "white nationalist" for wanting this incident to be covered is well out of bounds iaw WP:AGF. It's almost as though we need another article about extreme WP bias.

-- Randy2063 (talk) 14:03, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Especially since one of the loudest nationalists in this whole silly hissyfit, Malkin, is herself a non-white immigrant. "White" here seems to be shorthand for 'jingoist/chauvinist/anti-Mexican'. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:07, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

To clarify: The term "white nationalist" does not refer to a nationalist who is white, but rather a proponent of a social order in which those of European descent (or more broadly those of ancestry traditionally having aggregate socio-economic status comparable to those of European descent depending on who you're talking about) are ascendant. It refers to those who strongly identify with a certain sort of right wing, race-oriented identity politics. The rabbit in the suitcase (talk) 17:08, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

"Hissy fit" = disagreeing with a liberal who blocks the truth in order to advance thier obvious agenda. Remember folks: calling people "white nationalists" or "white surpemicists" is AOK for Orangemike and the rest of the Wikieditors here. But heaven help you if you try and post what is now a GLOBAL story (UK, Scotland, even Sweden itself). Or, then we just have to protect the article, block posters, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.228.102.242 (talk) 14:17, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Liberal Intellectual Facism, fighting Liberty Loving Mixed Raced Freedom loving Americans defending their country and their BORDERS. Racist Liberals and Self Hating Americans are the oppositin and the minority in this equation, and really shows the United States for what it is. These liberal "keeper of the truth" are a band of pathetic losers. This is the face of Capitolism, we do not have to like a product simply becasue they put up a political ad, in fact we are fully in our rights to SPEAK ABOUT IT, and to BLOG ABOUT IT, and to NOT BUT THE ABSOLUT brand. Idiots like Rabbit and Orange Mike will never "get" that, and have no business being "keepers of the truth" which casts doubt on the inofrmatino process at the WIKI. IT is ABSOLUT shit and absolut censoring, and absolut (ly) NOT democracy. Remember that little "freedom of ideas" thingy? Liberals tend to forget that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.169.187.128 (talk • contribs)

Semi-protection is not "shutting down edits"

Semi-protection merely means that anonymous editors cannot make changes to this controversial article during the current furor. There are a number of registered editors who can and do make edits here, who disagree with me as to the appropriate level of emphasis the Mexican liquor ad should get (including at least one who thinks it is not biased to call this a "reconquista" ad[!]). The only people being excluded are those unwilling to register an account at Wikipedia. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:33, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Who are "Orangemike" and The rabbit in the suitcase"? Are they important Wikipedia editors? Do they run things here at Wikipedia? Or are they just run-of-the-mill blame-America-first liberals with typing and vocabulary skills, who want to quash a story with obvious links to the Mexican reconquista movement (think, La Raza), which story has been taken up by virtually the entire main stream media (MSM).