Talk:Patient and mortuary neglect

The article is so-so. Like said below doesn't really grab readers attention. Should add pictures it'll make the page more appealing.Ladydiva04 (talk) 15:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC) Ladydiva04

The information was good but the format does not grab the readers attention and is not very extensive. With this topic you could have added some cool pictures and realy made it a cool forensic site. I would add a little to each paragraph and get some cool pictures to liven it up a bit. --Ctmfc (talk) 17:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

This article is somewhat interesting but does not keep me wanting to read more. maybe if you guys added pictures and improved your paragraphs. And I believe that infestation of maggots on humans is called myasis. that can help in the sense of sounding more "forensic". Agbetty (talk) 12:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

This is a great article; however, the writing, I feel is not on a college level. My advice would be to go back over the article and make some major adjustments with sentence structure and word choice. Read other articles and see how they grammar adn word choice. I think that might help little bit if you are having trouble with changing things around.megalatta (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 01:58, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

From a reader's perspective I would recommend finding or making a page with information on all 50 states and then link to just that page. The big white block in the middle of the article isn't too appealing. I also noticed a lack of wikipedia hyperlinks. You would be surprised how much character a few wikipedia hyperlinks add to a page in addition to the feeling of relevance your topic has to others. I look forward to seeing where this goes. Oh and in an episode of HBO's Six Feet Under I remember this occurring (granted that it was accidental). If you find it let me know, our group is doing Forensic entomology and society which includes TV shows and we could link to each others pages.Quatrevingtsix (talk) 03:37, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, guys...make sure you get this page updated as soon as possible, or it will be deleted. Remember how I said not to put up just one paragraph at a time? This is why. Get this done!ABrundage, Texas A&M University (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

So the hyperlink that I added for the violations summary is not linking the entire address because of the space in between "SUMMARY" and "OF". When I try to use the hyperlink tool it only shows the "OF VIOLATIONS FY 2007.pdf" as the link. Does anyone know anyway that I could overcome that? Wateka (talk) 17:07, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I fixed it -- you need to use underscores in place of spaces, and single square brackets instead of pointy ones. Also note that blogs (the first two refs) are not reliable sources per WP:RS. – ukexpat (talk) 18:54, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

The problem is the link now points to an invalid page. The address contains the spaces, and now with the underscores it won't work. Thanks though for the heads up on the bad references. I'll try to find some acceptable ones. Wateka (talk) 20:52, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

OK I fixed it again, it needed %20 instead of underscores. – ukexpat (talk) 21:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Awesome, thank you so much. Wateka (talk) 21:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

First, there are three fields of entomology: urban, stored products, and medicolegal. I believe mortuary neglect falls under urban entomology, not medicolegal (which is where forensic entomology falls). I am not sure that the article convinced me of how this falls under Forensic entomology. The subheading about the types of mortuary neglect and the law was a little confusing. I suggest making separate headings: one for the types of neglect and one for cases of neglect or make the cases subheadings of the type of neglect.Garza j e (talk) 21:00, 30 March 2008 (UTC) garza_j_e —Preceding comment was added at 23:44, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

• Forensic entomology is simply the use of insect evidence in legal proceedings, and that covers wide range of topics.

Technically, there are three areas of forensic entomology: urban, stored product and medicolegal. The type of case tells us which area it falls into. Mortuary neglect is falls under the subject of forensic entomology because it has to do with legal proceedings (neglect) but is not a crime involving living humans (which is medicolegal) so it falls into the urban forensic entomology category. ABrundage, Texas A&M University (talk) 20:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Just an idea, under "Case studies" (I believe that was the name of the section..) refer to our book for the course. I'm pretty sure that there are a few mortuary neglect cases included in it. If no one in your group has one, I'd be willing to let you borrow mine! Hope this helps! Lindseyjean11 (talk) 16:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

You might want to retitle your "Cases" section something like History. I don't see how the information written under that heading deals specifically with particular cases. Also, with a little more information that section would make a great introduction! Great article, keep up the good work! --Moosenik (talk) 21:45, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Peer Review

Just a few pointers here for you:

• Your article does not contain a lead section. This goes at the top of the page and provides a general overview of what you are about to say.
• Add more internal wiki links on words such as embalming, decomposition, forensic.
• Under the heading Types of mortuary neglect and the law, the sub-topics “Washington v. John T. Rhines Co.” and “Christensen v. Superior Court of Los Angeles Count” are out of place. These may need their own section, or be moved to the bottom heading Cases.
• Also, some of the sub-sections under Types of mortuary neglect and the law are not well explained. I had to read these a few times to understand what you are talking about. Try adding some real world examples to make the topics more interesting.
• One last thing, I suggest moving the Cases heading above the links to state laws. It gets lost at the bottom of the article after the exhausting list of states.
• BY the way, this article is REALLY interesting. I really would like to read more real-life examples of the types of abuse that occurs.--Amandamartinez06 (talk) 03:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Do you think this article is substantial enough to stand alone or do you think it could be ammended to the Insect Indicators of Abuse or Neglect page? Pinksugar85 (talk) 00:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Do you think this article is substantial enough to stand alone or do you think it could be ammended to the Insect Indicators of Abuse or Neglect page? Pinksugar85 (talk) 00:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Just some thoughts. When you talk about how neglect could cause flesh flies to inhabit the body a like to Insect indicatiors of abuse and neglect could help your page. Any pictures of improper embalming could help the reader to see what that would be like with a family member in an open-casket. You talk about a 15 step process the NFDA takes but you do not really tell what those steps are. That might be something to think about. Also, the article jumps back and forth on neglect of morgues and hospitals. Sometimes this can make it hard to follow. Crosenbalm (talk) 15:22, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I personally love this topic, i think it can stand alone if you create enough relative links to entomology or Law. more links to other Forensic web pages would help complete this article. awesome work. --heartbreaker5785 (talk)

Can you give me examples of specific cases that highlight different cases of neglect. I noticed that you included two but there are some instances that do not have any specific cases to back up that type of neglect. I think if you researched some more about that it would add some evidence to your claims and make your statements more valid and applicable. Just some things to consider. Good work, this is an interesting and sad topic. (Lamanda14 (talk) 21:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC))

This is a really good topic, but it seems like there is not much information on it in the paper. Using more examples and going into more detail would probably be a good idea, and could help with the lenth. There is only about one sentence under each bolded topic so elaborating on those would probably help with the length also. Using more links to other pages would be a good idea too. (Medillar (talk) 22:22, 14 April 2008 (UTC))

This topic is very interesting but it seems that you have a list of references and have not cited any in you article. I think you need to cite your references so to avoid deletion. I also think expansion of the one line sentences would help the reader better understand the topic--Escaladebball29 (talk) 03:39, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Good topic but I believe some good examples of mortuary neglect and patient neglect are out there. For example I was a EMT for a while and I have seen patient neglect in retirement homes during patient transports. Often the telltale signs are bedsores due to lack of physical movement and rotaional exercises to maintain blood circulation and mobility of limbs. Often neglect will cause this as well as the patient laying in their waste resulting in skin breakdown from uria.Txdevine1 (talk) 03:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Interesing article, it's short and too the point but I have a few suggestions. Firstly, there's a few sentences that need restructuring, they don't flow very well. Secondly, the references and external links should be moved to the bottom of the article below state policies. That's pretty much it, good luck! Greg09Ag (talk) 23:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

The article is interesting, but I do have a few suggestions to help improve it. It seems a little too brief. There are a lot of subheadings with only one or two lines of text with them in the types of mortuary neglect section. It could use more examples or some elaboration on the descriptions of the types of mortuary neglect and how they are affected by law. Also, are there any more cases that could be included? When I read the article, I didn't see any in text citations. Try to include the references in the article where they are referenced. Galaga180 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Overall good article. You can probably expand in a few areas but there is a lot of great information. Heathcj (talk) 05:33, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

The article is interesting but I do have some suggestions. Under the "Definition" section, you mentioned a major and minor difference. The major difference was clearly stated but what was the minor difference? Also, under "Types of Mortuary Neglect...", you might want to indent the court cases to distinguish them from the types of neglect. Under the "Cases" section, the information seemed to cover the history of embalming instead of any actual cases. I suggest either renaming the section or adding in actual cases. Other than that, good article. It just needs some more information and examples. Hando09 (talk) 05:48, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

You need to expand on the types of mortuary neglect. In your case study section you didn't give any actual case studies. Horsenerd09 (talk) 06:15, 16 April 2008 (UTC)horsenerd09

Maybe you could talk about how cockroaches are used to determine mortuary neglect. As in how after the skin begins drying out the bites of cockroaches leave marks that look like burns.Horsenerd09 (talk) 06:18, 16 April 2008 (UTC)horsenerd09

seemed kind of vague on how the actual neglect happens and the process that the neglected go through. It still covered interesting points and gave me an insight on the topic.Cellimj (talk) 21:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)§ cellimj

I feel like this article has a lot of potential because it is a unique topic. However, I feel like it is not really detailed enough to capture the reader's attention and doesn't really go in depth on anything. I think you could find some specific cases that you could elaborate on a little more, we even talked about at least one in class. Also, there isn't an introduction. You guys could write a really catchy intro that could spark attention, and overall outline what you talk about in the article. Good job so far, but I feel like it could use some more work to reach full potential. Kjw15 (talk) 05:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Some suggestions

This topic could be extremely interesting. The major problem right now is still its composition. Parts of the article sound like you're having a casual conversation with the reader. That's not precisely a bad thing, but it just needs to be put in Encyclopedia format. Also, the wording gets a tad awkward in areas. A good topic choice though, with alot of potential. --Tipitow88 (talk) 05:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

The topic you chose is an interesting one, but major modifications are in order. For starters, may I suggest maybe making your "DEFINITION" section your introduction? By defining neglect and actually elaborating between mortuary and patient neglect, you've done a pretty good job of encompassing the primary focus of this paper, while giving the reader a hint of what's coming. So, give it some thought...

Also, when you list the different types of mortuary neglect, the big, bold headings are completely unecessary. I realize that you're only trying to organize the article, but you don't really have enough information under each heading to make it okay for them to stand alone. You're better off just mentioning all the different types, briefly defining each, and including those real-life examples in one or two paragraphs.

For those specific cases you mentioned, maybe you could add another section named "Case Studies" or "Court Cases" or something in that area. You could include the two you already have, and look for cases that pertain to each of the other types. Doing this in a separate section allows you to go more in-depth, and could also add some length to your article.

Ohh.. you should really start working on the references. It's like the one thing that all the editors and "commenters" are crazy about on Wikipedia...Cvela (talk) 23:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I really hope your page doesn't get deleted. I wouldn't want that for anyone. I know that you guys have put quite a bit of research into this topic, and I appreciate how concise you're being in the delivery of your information, but it just seems very minimal at this point. This is a really interesting and applicable topic, there has to be more you can bring to the article. Perhaps expand upon court cases where entomology was used to determine the extent of patient or mortuary neglect. Or maybe aside from court cases, discuss further the effects that forensic entomology has with respect to patient and mortuary neglect. This is a great topic, but the article just seems a little slim for now. Keep up the good work! --Brokenice928 (talk) 16:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Overall good article. I felt like the subheadings with the different kinds of neglect were awkward since each only contained one or maybe two sentences. It would be good if you expanded on the types of neglect and maybe included some examples. Also, there was one part where you said "like the case of Roy Williams" and unless you had mentioned him earlier in the article (which I looked again and didn't see), I have no idea who that is and what that case is about. You might add a description behind that, and explain what he was (or wasn't) doing, or link it to something that would give me a better idea. Annemarye (talk) 17:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I have a few suggestions. This is a very interesting topic and can have the potential of being a very good article with more information. In the sentence "When a mortuary fails to preserve a body correctly, it could also be considered neglect because of the consequences" could you elaborate a little? What are the consequences? Also, under the sections "Fencing Stolen Organs", "Commingling of Ashes", and "Unauthorized disposal" I think there should be more information given than just 1-2 sentences per category. Otherwise, combine all 3 into one general category. Also, in the Christensen case there are no citations- you might want to cite that since it is a specific case. Also consider moving that highlighted case to under your section that says "Cases"- it would be more appropriate there. Laylou11 (talk) 20:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)