Talk:The Snow Queen

The Snow Queen has deeper meaning that could be provided to help in its presentation and interpretation. A devoted amirer of Hans Christian Andersen drboisclair 03:11, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Copyvio?

I've came around the following quote: No power that I could give could be as great as that which she already has. Don't you see how men and beasts are compelled to serve her, and how far she has come in the wide world since she started out in her naked feet? We mustn't tell her about this power. Strength lies in her heart, because she is such a sweet, innocent child. If she herself cannot reach the Snow Queen and rid little Kay of those pieces of glass, then there's no help that we can give her

Isn't it a copyright violation to include such big excerpts, and what is this quote's copyright status? Cmapm 13:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I've tried to reword that excerpt into a short sentence. Cmapm 10:33, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

This is considered "fair use"--Drboisclair 15:27, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

The Snow Queen is old enough to be in the public domain. See the Gutenberg project, which declares that the Snow Queen is not copyright in the United States. Trishm 09:35, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Changes in the article

I've tried to fix semantic errors and omissions mostly in the "Plotline" section. However, some spelling errors may have been introduced by me. I'm sorry for that in advance. Cmapm 11:10, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

The quotation of exactly what the Finn woman says should be returned to let her speak for herself. --Drboisclair 15:27, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

OK with that excerpt, if you are sure, it may be qualified as fair use. But your addition about trolls does not reflect the essence, and this could not be explained just by translation diffs. Please, translate the following excerpt from the original Danish version (my version is its summary):

Alle de som gik i Trold-Skole, for han holdt Trold-Skole, de fortalte rundt om, at der var skeet et Mirakel; nu kunde man først see, meente de, hvorledes Verden og Menneskene rigtigt saae ud. De løb omkring med Speilet, og tilsidst var der ikke et Land eller et Menneske, uden at det havde været fordreiet deri. Nu vilde de ogsaa flyve op mod Himlen selv for at gjøre Nar af Englene og »vorHerre«. Jo høiere de fløi med Speilet, des stærkere grinede det, de kunde neppe holde fast paa det; høiere og høiere fløi de, nærmere Gud og Englene; da zittrede Speilet saa frygteligt i sit Griin, at det foer dem ud af Hænderne og styrtede ned mod Jorden

Hence, I change it back. Cmapm 16:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

You have Andersen's original Danish, and here is the text in more "up-to-date" Danish: Alle de som gik i troldskole, for han holdt troldskole, de fortalte rundt om, at der var sket et mirakel; nu kunne man først se, mente de, hvorledes verden og menneskene rigtigt så ud. De løb omkring med spejlet, og til sidst var der ikke et land eller et menneske, uden at det havde været fordrejet deri. Nu ville de også flyve op mod Himmelen selv for at gøre nar af englene og “Vorherre”. Jo højere de fløj med spejlet, des stærkere grinede det, de kunne næppe holde fast på det; højere og højere fløj de, nærmere Gud og englene; da sitrede spejlet så frygteligt i sit grin, at det fór dem ud af hænderne og styrtede ned mod jorden

My rough translation: "All they who went to 'Troll-school,' for he held 'Troll-school,' they told around, that there was a miracle; now could one first see, they believed, how [the] world and mankind rightly looked. They ran around with [the] mirror, and finally there was not a country or a person, that it had not been distorted in it. Now they wanted also to fly up towards heaven itself to make a fool of [the] angels and "the Lord." The higher they flew with [the] mirror, the stronger it grinned, they could hardly hold firmly onto it; higher and higher they flew, nearer God and [the] angels; when [the] mirror quivered so frightfully in its laugh, that it before them out of [their] hands and dropped down towards [the] ground."--Drboisclair 21:24, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Image:Edmund Dulac - Snow Queen.jpg

Image:Edmund Dulac - Snow Queen.jpg is going to be deleted from Commons. Please upload it under the fair use clause here if anybody wants to keep it. Bryan 20:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The Mirror of Reason

The Mirror of Reason [SNOW] is a popular guild in the MMORPG computer game, Guild Wars. It is about 2 years old and continually has close to max (100) members but has close to 500 ex-members, has belonged to 5 previous full alliances with over 60 members in each guild, and is currently the leader of an alliance of 9 other guilds with 60+ members in each guild.

In total well over 1,000 people have had some direct contact with The Mirror of Reason and the number of people that [SNOW] has helped in the game is countless. As a result, The Mirror of Reason were made official Guild of the Week on February 20, 2007 - raising the profile of the Snow Queen tale even further.

The Guild name was inspired by the Snow Queen tale and bases its lore, website, and cape (logo) design on the tale. All new members are encouraged to read the tale with a link to an online version included in their welcome page. The guild does a lot to promote the tale in the realm of computer gaming and fansites - thus recruiting many new fans to the story.

It is for this reason, I have included The Mirror of Reason in the culture section of the Snow Queen article. I personally consider online communities and computer games as part of culture in the modern world and through the Mirror of Reason, a large number of people have made contact for the first time with this magnificant tale, The Snow Queen. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.157.234.147 (talk) 10:28, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

The Lion, The witch and the wardrobe

Isn't the queen in the lion, the witch and the wardrobe a fairly obvious borrowing from this story? I hope that's not considered original research. It seems blantantly obvious to me. Should this similarity be mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.166.226.40 (talk) 22:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

You're right, I believe, but it will be considered original research unless someone finds a reliable source showing either that the academic community agrees with us or that C.S. Lewis acknowledges the Snow Queen as an inspiration. Only then can we really mention it. I may look for such a source if I get around to it. Aylad (talk) 16:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Revisions, present and future

I clarified much of the summary using the version found at WikiSource.

The quotes might be public domain... does anyone understand copyright law regarding later translations of public-domain texts? If the translation is under copyright, we may not have fair use (most of the quoted material could be paraphrased with little loss).

Regarding the GuildWars guild... I didn't delete it, but if this article becomes the focus of an improvement effort, I'm certain it will be deleted as original research, un-encyclopedic, or what have you. Suggestions for demonstrating that it's worth keeping:

1. Find reliable sources that demonstrate the limited availability of this story to today's children. (I doubt if it's widely-read these days, see if you can find an article about it somewhere.)

2. Find reliable sources that point to your guild as increasing interest in and familiarity with the story. These sources may not exist yet, but if you can get the attention of some newspaper or other publication, you might get a brief write-up. This would at least give you a shot at proving your reference to be encyclopedia-worthy.

It's nothing personal - I wish you the best of luck - I'm just being realistic and, hopefully, helpful. Aylad (talk) 17:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)