Talk:Grand Theft Auto IV

Pirate released 360 Version

A pirated group of people tagging itself 'Icon' released a United Kingdom retail copy of the game at 10:50 hours GMT. Subsequently Youtube videos started to appear confirming the fact: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=90chndWcgGs files appeared on Usenet sites soon after. Microsoft also took the unusual step of contacting every journalist who has a preview copy asking them for their gamertags as well as requesting that they set their consoles to appear 'offline' together with instructions for same so they may monitor illegal usage. Twobells (talk) 12:54, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

If this does belong in the article, here's a citation: http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/04/23/grand-theft-auto-iv-leaked-online/. I have not the heart to add it myself. For me the grief is still too near. xenocidic (talk) 14:19, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Where should it go? Downloadable Content under Xbox 360? :) No, seriously? ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 14:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

No.Wageslave (talk) 03:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I didn't feel like adding it either tbh, I don't want it to impact on Rockstar North.Twobells (talk) 14:32, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Leaks are unencyclopedic, expected, and this leak is not significant FYI. Btw. it was pre'd approx. 10:50:47 GMT (or was it 09? I hate DST). :) --nlitement ^[talk] 14:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Morally I wouldn't agree with adding it but it is significant. Maybe it should be added after the game's release so that it won't cause so much damage? Wikipedia's not a news site so there's no rush. The only people who would benefit from it being added urgently are the people who want to download it. ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 14:51, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Now thats a sound idea.Twobells (talk) 14:55, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

On a seperate issue two major newsgroup hosts crashed or were seriously overloaded by demand, I'd suggest thats significant enough to add as well after release.Twobells (talk) 14:58, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Let's hope everyone agrees then. It's like the world's press when Prince Harry went to Iraq. Let's hope some Australians don't come along and ruin it! :) ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 15:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

• I agree with Nlitement, Most games/movies are leaked in some way and it's not usually mentioned unless something significant happens (eg. release date changes in response). Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 15:02, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Decision: Add the pirating issue info after official release or ignore unless something significant happens as a result of same?Twobells (talk) 15:09, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it's silly to not to mention it because of "moral issues", specifically because Wikipedia does not censor. However, I think Bill makes a good point regarding other media being leaked all the time. The Halo 3 article has a leaks section, but there was actually a reaction by Bungie. Unless something notable comes out of this, there's no reason to mention it. -- MacAddct  1984 ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:41,

23 April 2008 (UTC)

I dont see it as that notable. Wageslave (talk) 03:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the general consensus is it's only notable if the publisher/developer comments on it. Otherwise, it's not. Fin©™ 14:11, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. If after the release the developers say it affected sales or anything like that then it would be notable. But pretty much every 360/PC game is pirated and is not mentioned on wikipedia. This isn't any different. ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 14:14, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

This is a major leak, though ^DAVID _CAT

The actual leak is no different to most leaks unless it's commented on by RockStar, or people are prosecuted like when Star Wars episode 3 was leaked. I'd be more inclined to inserting it into the article if there was more information that just "GTA IV has been leaked". Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 16:21, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

BBC is reporting the leak [1] Cavenba^{me parlez} 13:52, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Technically yes. But it's BBC Newsbeat, when it's BBC News then it'll be worth mentioning in the article. This report is basically just re-reporting website comments. - X201 (talk) 14:08, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

It was reported on BBC News, I saw it with my own eyes. It linked to BBC Newsbeat, but the headline was on the right, under "Technology" on the main BBC News website. I think it's rather silly that news of this leak is not in the wikipedia article, especially since the news has hit major sites like BBC news. -Z

GTA: San Andreas was leaked onto the internet too but it wasn't mentioned because there was nothing really notable about the leak. Most stuff ends up on the internet and not much can be said other than it is leaked. There were no reported steps taken to ensure the game wasn't leaked when it was shipped, so there's nothing really that unusual about this leak. There doesn't seem to be any response to it and without that it doesn't really add to the article. If Rockstar or TakeTwo respond by saying "this has hurt our sales", or the police make arrests or something else significant happens, there would be more information to use in the article. Otherwise it's not really that important. Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 20:03, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I disagree Bill, whilst I personally doubt very much this will make a difference to sales at all, it does interfere with their marketing of the game. Rockstar (or Take 2?) market the Grand theft auto games in a particular way, notably holding back media, in order to maintain hype (or should I say excitement), and I think the fact that Take 2 is going crazy on youtube is fairly notable - they clearly have a problem with the leak. Having said all this, I don't really care that much and I guess it's of minimal importance, relatively speaking. Just thought it'd be a useful addition to the page, considering the notoriety of GTA releases. -Z —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.199.45 (talk) 21:16, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

If you (or anyone) can find a source discussing how the leak is affecting/interfering with the marketing of GTA IV then it probably would be good to include in the article. Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 22:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

360 GTA IV not region free

"We know that some people are planning to import GTA IV due to the game being edited in some parts of the world. However, if you are one of those people planning on doing so we’d advise you not to import the PAL version 360 release of the game as it as been confirmed it is not region free. So, if you happen to have it pre-ordered somewhere we advise run and cancel that right now.

Please note the US version of the game could be different, as a few games released in the US have been region free while the Euro one was locked. However, no details on that version are known as of yet."

http://darkzero.co.uk/game-news/360-gta-iv-not-region-free/

Denzelio (talk) 15:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

DLC on Xbox 360 "pricing" speculation

From the section on Xbox 360 DLC, this appears;

"Details on the pricing of these downloads have not yet been revealed, though it would almost certainly not be released for free, as Take-Two Interactive's former CEO, Paul Eibeler, has said numerous times that these downloads would provide "additional revenue streams" to the company[citation needed]"

Does anyone have a citation? Wageslave (talk) 03:37, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Celebrity comedians?

I've been reading about rumors of famous comedians like Katt Williams doing performances at the comedy clubs throughout Liberty City. It wouldn't surprise me that this information is floating around seeing as to how the game's been leaked. Is there anyway to confirm it and if I find a valid source, could i post it? -D Deadeyes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.181.84 (talk) 14:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

There's mention of the comedy clubs in the gameplay section so you could tag it on the end of that. This [2] will do a a starting source, but the more the better. - X201 (talk) 14:24, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Just realised, the article is locked to IP users so you won't be able to add it yourself. But post it here and one of the regulars will do the honours for you. - X201 (talk) 14:25, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I can confirm that Ricky Gervais is on it, specifically on the TV, but I have no evidence as such as I saw it on a live feed (I couldn't resist (Clarkey4boro (talk) 18:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)).

I just found a link with video of Katt Williams on GTAIV. Perhaps this could be considered a valid source. http://www.dead-frog.com/blog/entry/katt_williams_also_playing_liberty_citys_split_sides_in_gta_iv/ -D Deadeyes

IGN review

anyone else think that it should be shown as 10.0 instead of 10? if not, people might think ign think really it's a 9.5 but have to round up.

ign is a publication which gives 9.7 and 9.8, rather than just 8/10 or 9/10. i just think it should be differentiated to reflect that this really is a perfect score, rather than a rounded-off 10/10. Autonova (talk) 18:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. -Z —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.199.45 (talk) 19:47, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Response -- Why? You can't have 10.5 out of 10, you can have 0.5/10 but not 10.5/10 It's just not how their ranking system works, the decimal point may be removed since it's meaningless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.169.5.42 (talk)

I agree with the Anon IP, I don't see why people would think it is rounded off. Besides, IGN gave the review "10", not "10.0". Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 01:45, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

This reminds me of the information plate on the front of Edge's reviews section "1=One, 2=Two, 3=Three" .... "10 = Ten" - X201 (talk) 10:35, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

People would think it's rounded off because OXM and IGN gave it perfect 10s, yet OXM dont do decimal places, ign do, and there's no way to tell this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Autonova (talk • contribs) 14:31, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Ign's offical number was 10.0, read the review

All other games on Wiki have had it as "10.0/10", besides, it makes it look way more impressive, so go for it. --nlitement ^[talk] 09:43, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

GAMESPOT REVIEW HAS NOT YET BEEN PUBLISHED. 9.5 WITH UNSPECIFIED CITATION? CLARIFICATION PERHAPS?

Gamespot has already put the review up, why da' hell is this page locked? hurry up you white hill billie's —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.172.19.132 (talk) 04:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Special Edition Box Art

Isn't [3] & [4] the Special Edition Box Art?

I'm pretty sure they are.

yeah they are —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.188.109.178 (talk) 18:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

The Special Edition section notes: "Both versions have identical box art." This should be removed and pictures of the real special edition box should be shown if possible.--NotYouHaha! (talk) 06:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't beat me with sticks but...

What do people think about this part of the IGN review? I think it's notable for the article because of the fierce rivalry and the fact that the game was developed on the 360 so it's quite unexpected.

For those wanting to know which version looks better, the edge goes to the PS3. The textures and framerate are comparable, but the PS3 has far less pop-in. The 360 has richer colors, but the PS3 has better anti-aliasing making it look a little cleaner. Because GTA IV can preload onto the PS3 hard drive, the in-game loads are faster. Don't worry Xbox owners, the load times are rarely more than 30 seconds and don't occur very often. The slight visual edge goes to PS3, but the 360 is no slouch. Either version will do you proud.

I was considering just adding something about it in the Reception section but I didn't bother because a) I didn't want to be accused of fanboyism and b) an xbox fanboy would have just reverted it anyway! I'd like to gauge some opinion? ChimpanzeeUK - User | Talk | Contribs 18:25, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

It probably should be included in some way as it is normal to discuss differences between versions. As the differences seem to be only very minor then it should be written in a way that reflects that, and not spend too much time on the subject. Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 18:37, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

As long as it's balanced it should be OK, something along the lines of... In it's review IGN said that they thought the PlayStation 3 version looked slightly better than the Xbox 360 version which had "richer colours" but the PlayStation's Anti-aliasing made the graphics look "cleaner". - X201 (talk) 19:00, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Although, I have been playing the PS3 version today (it was shipped to me very early), and I didn't think there was any antialiasing. It looked very jagged to me on my 720p screen. -Z —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.199.45 (talk) 19:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

We're going to beat you not only with sticks, but with bats. Metal bats.Wikipedia ain't no forum, fool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.188.109.178 (talk) 23:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Not notable be normal GTA standards

"Notable weapons in this game other than melee fighting with fists and knives include pistols, submachine guns, assault rifles, sniper rifles, rocket launchers, and molotov cocktails."

Pretty much all of the above weapons have been in every GTA game to date. I'm going to remove it as it seems redundant to mention it. It's akin to saying the next half-life episode will have combine enemies in it. JackorKnave (talk) 00:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

But they have recieved a bit of an update, if you have watched some of the G4 Tech TV vids that went up.

If you want you can mention the differences.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.188.76 (talk) 18:39, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but to re-iterate: There is absolutely nothing notable about having the exact same weapons, also in answer to you, no offence man, but there no "differences" mentioned in the above quote. JackorKnave (talk) 19:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 19:45, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

NO POINT for Sound Track page yet

Nothing on that page is sited so it mine as well not be listed yet Butters0422 (talk) 03:44, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Heh, that's a lot of info you need to remove then. Emil Kastberg (talk) 19:05, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Reception issues

There's no empire or playstation world reviews cited. anyway, the empire review was taken down from the site, so it definitely shouldn't be up there. 76.232.62.205 (talk) 06:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

 Done I've commented it our so that it can be easily put back when the review re-appears when the review embargo is lifted tonight. - X201 (talk) 09:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Kotaku review

Kotaku just released their review for the game if anyone wants to post that. http://kotaku.com/384421/grand-theft-auto-iv-review-life-liberty-city-and-the-pursuit-of-happiness They are also releasing a 'comparison review' momentarily. -Del Deadeyes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.181.84 (talk)

The Game has now been released

The Game has now been released. Since the article has been locked please may an admin remove the tag banner on the front of the article. Ganstagingerns8061791 (talk) 21:32, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Legally, it hasn't been released anywhere around the world yet. It's semi-protected to deter drive-by vandalism, so the official release of the game doesn't necessarily mean that the article will be unprotected. /Carson 21:36, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the OP was referring to the {{future game}} banner. - X201 (talk) 07:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The game has indeed now been released in several locations (Australia and New Zealand are some examples) ShadowFusion (talk) 15:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Differences from previous Grand Theft Auto games

I wondering whether this particular section should be split to add more information to the game?.--SkyWalker (talk) 02:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Definitely. But it needs planning. We should discuss what subcategories to rewrite the list in. Emil Kastberg (talk) 06:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I was just working on a draft of that which I've now performed. I converted the list to "prose" and merged the Differences with the Gameplay section. The subsections, I made were Vehicles, Combat, Communication, Police. Each section still needs an overview of the topic and some copyediting. I think a Missions section (like GTA III's article) describing the game's mission structure and a Environment (or some other name) section which talks about the other activities to do in the city (like the comedy clubs etc.) would be good. - kollision (talk) 09:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The section looks much better now, good work. Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 21:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Yea good work. I heard they are mini games that is included in GTA 4 such has darts and other stuff. That should be added to. --SkyWalker (talk) 04:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Grand Theft Auto multiplayer

Contrary to the article, GTA 4 is not the first GTA game on a console to feature online multiplayer. The GTA games on the PSP featured online multiplayer. The PC version also had unofficial multiplayer. 80.194.73.200 (talk) 14:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I dont think the PSP or PC are classified as a console. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.230.244.1 (talk) 14:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps not a HOME console, but could be worth a mention as a portable console nontheless? 80.194.73.200 (talk) 14:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

No because the multiplayer on the psp games were ad-hoc only, not online.--151.199.196.179 (talk) 15:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah I see. Wondered why I could never get it working.. 80.194.73.200 (talk) 15:40, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

GTA 1, London and 2 had multiplayer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.199.45 (talk) 01:38, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Not online multiplayer, and certainly not for the console versions considering, you know, they were Playstation games. As far as the PC ports go (and as I recall), they used an IPX protocol which is network-based, not over the internet itself. 67.142.130.13 (talk) 11:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

IPX is what I would consider "online", particularly given that I've played GTA2 multiplayer with several of my non-local friends before. It's not supported by a server management service, of course, but the ability to play with a remote user over the internet counts as online to me.

If the article stated that it was the first GTA game to include a multiplayer gaming service, I'd be kosher cookin'. --Jtgibson (talk) 15:06, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

(Missed the remark "on a console", however. "On a console" is correct -- there were no official multiplayer-enabled console GTAs.) --Jtgibson (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 15:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

hey guys. GTA and GTA 2 both had multiplayer (although it wasn't as fancy as it is now days.) don't forget, this game originated on the PC before the console, so when talking about GTA firsts, I think it's important to include PC version and give credit to rockstar for their earlier innovations with multiplayer appropriately —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.166.255.41 (talk) 18:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Controversy

Perhaps a reference to this article could be added. [5] 80.194.73.200 (talk) 14:47, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Article length

Soon, we should consider splitting this article as it's 59 kB (that's pretty big), as per WP:SPLIT. Also, the article is roughly 5,000 words of prose FYI. No rush. Cavenba^{me parlez} 20:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the "Gameplay" section could be trimmed down. It's hugely oversized at the moment. It seems to be going into far too much detail than is necessary for this article. .:Alex:. 20:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Sections like Gameplay and Controversy could even be split into smaller articles. Cavenba^{me parlez} 20:51, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't seem like it could be split down reasonably. I in no way, directly oppose a splitting, but it seems like nothing is necessarily notable enough to split down, except maybe controversy. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 20:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I know what you mean. Most definitely, "Controversy" should be split, as it's notable enough to have its own article. Cavenba^{me parlez} 21:07, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Gameplay should not be trimmed. I feel it need another article. There are many new gameplay addition that has been added to GTA 4. Controversy must be split. --SkyWalker (talk) 03:58, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Remember though this is not a game guide, unless there are notable gameplay additions they don't need to be mentioned. John Hayes^talk 14:07, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Reception

IGN states that they last gave a 10 to SOUL CALIBUR, NOT ZELDA:OOT. Read the last page of the article.

A "10" is not a score we give out very often. In fact, the last time we gave a 10 to a console game was Soul Calibur in 1999.

[6]

--96.236.17.13 (talk) 21:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I put the Soul Calibur in the article yesterday, but someone edited it out and put Zelda.

I edited it back. PLEASE NO ONE SAY THAT IT WAS ZELDA, BECAUSE ZELDA WAS IN 98. SOUL CALIBUR WAS 99!

PoisonGodmachine (talk) 21:55, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Can some one please put that this game has recieved more perfect scores then any other games in history, I think even more then any movies, or any form of media —Preceding unsigned comment added by Not G. Ivingname (talk • contribs) 00:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

theft and bittorrent leak?

Is the theft by ups employees and leak to bittorrent notable enough to be included in the article? I know the harry potter article has information regarding its leak, not sure what the standard is regarding leaks of material before its release date is. Nar Matteru (talk) 23:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe it would be, heres a link to the news story, plus a bunch of videos are now on Youtube. http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,23608698-5014117,00.html --TGothier (talk) 23:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

There is already a discussion above about the pirated versions. Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 23:42, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

um....

could i put the fox news scores?? for the game??Al1012 (talk) 23:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I was skeptical that Fox News actually reviewed games, but I Googled it anyway. I was shocked to see that not only does Fox News review games, but it gave this game a near perfect score. However, seeing as The New York Times' score isn't included in the list of scores, I don't see how Fox News' score should be. MemeGeneScene (talk) 02:46, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

ok well i just saw it and was thinking about it thats all thx.Al1012 (talk) 14:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

There is mention of the New York Times opinion of the game. Kurushi (talk) 20:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

PC Version?

Is a PC version in the works? Release date? I feel its relevant to the article since as far as I know every other GTA game has had a PC version from initial release. 203.217.13.50 (talk) 23:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Rockstar has made no mention so far, I've read some hearsay (or readsay since its the internet) posts on forums about the Hot Coffee incident caused Rockstar to swear off PC ports but nothing official.Skeith (talk) 02:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

There is currently no official confirmation regarding PC version. Until there is an information nothing must be added. --SkyWalker (talk) 04:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

It may be worth noting, the following information from Grand Theft Auto III article

Following GTA III, PlayStation 2 GTA games generally followed GTA III release pattern, in which the Microsoft Windows port is released within seven to eight months after the PlayStation 2 versions' release.[46][47][48]

--Chibbie (talk) 17:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's true, but Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories don't have a PC version, mostly because of the critical response on the port between the PlayStation Portable and PlayStation 2. I know it's not a forum, or something like that, but about the topic, I found a Swiss online video game shop, which offers pre-ordering the PC version of Grand Theft Auto IV with the release date November 30th, 2008. [7] I don't know that this information is notable enough, though. 80.99.138.114 (talk) 18:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Grand Theft Auto IV Coming to PC in October? --WikiCats (talk) 13:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I've seen that before. It looks like complete speculation without anything to back it up. Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

If there's money to be made in the PC market (and there almost certainly is) then I have no doubt that a computer version will come out pretty soon, regardless of the hot coffee incident ( aspeople associate that episode with the entire GTA franchise, not just the PC version of San Andreas). In fact, I've heard confirmation of a PC port from people close to the games development, but with no word of a release date. However, since we're almost guaranteed not to hear an official announcement for at least another month, such speculation does not belong on wikipedia. grarap (talk) 16:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)grarap

Unofficial x86 PC backport will be ready before factory version! The cracked Apple porting kit for x86 <--> PowerPC cross-development can be used to reverse code from PPC-cored Sony PS3 to IBM-compatibles. 82.131.210.162 (talk) 09:58, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

guys i think i found something just check it out: [8] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daron19 10:52, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Well that cover on the German site is a fake. They forgot to delete the PS3 from the right top corner of the image. Its the PS3 cover with Games for Windows bar added to it. Check it yourself if you don't believe me still this might not mean the info is anyway wrong. I would quite frankly except the PC versio before end of the year as it would not be very wise to leave the PC gamers out. --80.221.239.213 (talk) 22:25, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Removals by Y2kcrazyjoker4

I've re-added the information removed by Y2kcrazyjoker4 in these two edits[9] [10]. I didn't really see those edits as an improvment. Citing Justin Calvert saying the game is "compelling" and "undoubtedly the best Grand Theft Auto yet" doesn't really tell readers WHY that is. I cited Calvert for criticisms of the game because the Reception section is completely favorable. Surely someone somewhere has said something negative about the game? It's also common to list aggregate scores before individual reviews. I think the analyst predications can be trimmed after actual sales information comes in, but you removed the citation pointing to the $550 million prediction. Explain what you want trimmed and we can work on a compromise. --Pixelface (talk) 08:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

In terms of complaints it has been noted that there are a few glitches, lags or some other kind of "hitch". Stabby Joe (talk) 15:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Which version? Or both? I've seen a video of the 360 version having some clipping issues, but not a decent reference for it. Neıl ☎ 15:22, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

what do u mean by "the 360 version having some clipping issues" Al1012 (talk) 15:34, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Clipping is when only things that are directly visible are rendered on screen. So things like buildings and trees aren't rendered if they're behind you. This is basically done to save CPU power. I've seen some videos where people have been driving along and a tree suddenly appears as it hasn't been rendered as soon as it was in the field of view. As with Neil, I haven't seen any sources talking about this yet. Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 18:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

ok Al1012 (talk) 19:37, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

It won't be hard to find complaints actually, no matter how minor. IGN did as a way of conveying that the 10/10 isn't perfect perfect. Plus theres OXM that gave it a 9.5... so mention that 0.5 complaint. Stabby Joe (talk) 23:33, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

View stats

This article was viewed more than 144K times yesterday. JACOPLANE • 2008-04-29 14:58

that is an odd article... but its cool Al1012 (talk) 15:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

GTA IV Budget and Staff

If the information is public there should be mention of the budget and the staff required to produce this title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.167.38.43 (talk) 19:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I second this, any information on the money spent to produce the game should be included in the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidweiner23 (talk • contribs) 09:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

"According to Janco Partners analyst Mike Hickey, who likes to suck dick" probably should not be included in this article. I doubt this guy's sexual activites are pertinent information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.74.122.61 (talk) 18:54, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

lololol —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.241.97.133 (talk) 17:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Niko's Nationality

Hi, as I can see there was some arguing about Niko's nationality. I first he was Russian but then I found that on many places it is said that he is a Serbian.

Here are some links to be added by someone that can edit. Please add them so there is less confusion. Thanks

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24356918/

In this site it is said <Niko Bellic, a merchant mariner and Serbian vet of the Bosnian civil war, arrives in Liberty City aboard a freighter ship.>

http://kotaku.com/384421/grand-theft-auto-iv-review-life-liberty-city-and-the-pursuit-of-happiness

<In it, damaged goods Serbian war vet Niko Bellic ventures to Liberty City in search of closure, all the while coming to terms with the harsh realities of The American Dream.>

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology/gamezone/2008/04/29/grand-theft-auto-iv-89520-20399274/

<This time around you take the role of former soldier Niko Bellic, a Serbian immigrant who is lured into Liberty City's underworld by his shady cousin Roman, falsely promising wealth and women.>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/29/grandtheftauto?gusrc=rss&feed=technology

<Lead character Niko Bellic is a Serbian national with a violent military past who arrives in Liberty City via a rusted container ship.>

And many more but I don't think it needs more sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.200.142.34 (talk) 19:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Since it's never said in the game where he is from and the only thing you pretty much got is him speaking in serbo-croatian and making references to Yugoslavia and the Adriatic coast, you cant just assume he is Serbian. In my opinion to avoid conflict, you should use "The former Yugoslavia" wich is the only real option. All we know for sure is that he is a war veteran from the former Yugoslavia, ALL other statements are pure speculations.--Nirvana77 (talk) 19:58, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

It says in the game he's Serbian. Neıl ☎ 00:52, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

http://www.photorola.net/uploads/2cf46a73a6.jpg Mstank (talk) 08:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

LOL WUT? Why did we get rid of GTA'S impact on the United States economy?

I read earlier that GTA 4 would generate a certain % of the US economy today...Yet somebody got rid of it, probably some foreigner or somebody. Anywawy it should stay in, I'm sorry but it's not like it's baised that it'll generate a certain % of our economy, it's all true and fair. Badboysbadoyswhatugonnado (talk) 20:28, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, so ignoring problems are how editors handle stuff these days huh? Badboysbadoyswhatugonnado (talk) 18:31, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Sales

I think this quote should be rewritten as it appears to be a miscalculation of two bits of information from the reference given. "Various analysts predicted that Grand Theft Auto IV would sell 4 to 9.5 million units its first week, generating sales of $400 to $550 million." Firstly, 4 million - 9.5 million is quite a broad estimate for an analyst to be making and secondly, even if that was the estimate the amount of money would look more like '$400 to $800 million' Do you see what I'm saying? I had a brief read through the source but I haven't got time to rewrite a paragraph about it at the moment. Kurushi (talk) 20:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

That sentence says various analysts, plural. One analyst has predicted 4 million in the first week[11] (Pachter), another has predicted 9.5 million and $466 million (Hickey). Take Two estimated pre-order demand at 6 million or $400 million. One analyst predicted $550 million (Wilson). Wilson predicted sales in April alone (that's two days, April 29 and April 30) would be 4.5 million and didn't give a first week unit prediction. --Pixelface (talk) 17:06, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOME MENTION OF SHORTAGES AND INFLATED PRICING AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME. THE GAME IS UNAVAILABLE TO RETAILERS (I AM A RETAILER OF VIDEOGAMES MYSELF), PRICES ARE £60+ FOR A STANDARD EDITION ON EBAY. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.74.24 (talk) 22:47, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

How Many were sold the first day? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.134.91.221 (talk) 14:02, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I understand that it is more than one analyst being referred to but the sentence is misleading and basically incorrect:
"Grand Theft Auto IV would sell 4 to 9.5 million units its first week, generating sales of $400 to $550 million."
The reason it is misleading is that you read that and you think '4 to 9.5 million will generate $400 to $550 million' This is wrong because the $400 million is in reference to 6 Million units being pre-orderd not a predicted 4 million copies being sold. Check the source and see for yourself, it doesn't say anywhere that 4 million units will produce $400 million.Kurushi (talk) 17:45, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Problems connecting to multiplayer for Playstation3

I'm not sure if it important enough to go in the main article but lots of Playstation 3 users can't acces multiplayer and are getting the message "Cannot connect to game provider" if they try.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/04/29/gta-iv-online-is-down/ http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=gta&thread.id=372660&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pleasetry (talk • contribs) 22:07, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Um, around 3 million people are trying to connect at roughly the same time. What do you expect? Neıl ☎ 00:51, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

It's not just for PS3 by the way; http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/04/29/gta-iv-released-gamers-report-problems-on-ps3-xbox-360/

(Clarkey4boro (talk) 19:59, 30 April 2008 (UTC))

multiplayer

i was thinking, maybe the multiplayer will let u play with people on the PS3 if your on the Xbox 360 and if your on the PS3 u can play with people on the Xbox 360.... if not they will have to make a some gun game for both systems so u can play like that.... so me and my friend can see who is better with out fighting (i dont know the PS3 controler or i dont know the Xbox 360 controler) Al1012 (talk) 22:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

This is not a forum for discussion but only ideas on how to improve the article on factuals. To answer your question: no. They will never have cross-platform multiplayer for two completely different companys.NoGoodScoundrel (talk) 16:32, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Yugoslavia

Under "Synopsis" and then under "Plot", make sure that Yugoslavia is formatted like this: [[Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia|Yugoslavia]], because I'm pretty sure it's that Yugoslavia that's being referred to. 67.41.160.234 (talk) 22:27, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Reviews table

Ok, this table is getting way to big, I mean no featured article has one that size and FA is what we're driving at. We need to remove a large chunk of it. Stabby Joe (talk) 01:00, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the best thing to do is just let it get bigger, there are still some important reviews to come, and wait until the fuss has died down on the article, give it a month or more, then we can edit the whole and discuss which reviews are important and need to stay, and which reviews don't add anything to the article. - X201 (talk) 09:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

If something is having a negative impact on an article, or is breaking guidelines, we can't just "wait a month" to fix it, we need to fix it NOW. JayKeaton (talk) 13:13, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it's too big. As of now I see 20 entries and 2 aggregate sites. The {{VG Reviews}} template has 42 default entries. I've never really understood how cutting content makes an article more featurable. Which publications do you think should be removed? Personally I couldn't find a citation for EGM (or perhaps it's the same as 1UP). --Pixelface (talk) 17:14, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, 1UP's review scores are generally whatever the first score from the EGM review was.--Gorillazfan249 (talk) 19:59, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

There are 61 articles about a man being stabbed, we're going to add this in.

Pick one of the many articles that talk about 'the stabbing incident'

- http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&ncl=1154871672

This news article says that the stabbing had absolutely nothing to do with the release of GTA 4

- http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2215574/grand-theft-auto-stabbing —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.166.255.41 (talk) 18:44, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Badboysbadoyswhatugonnado (talk) 18:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

IMO, news of this nature is given disproportionate attention in order to damage the image of a product or company. There is no mention in the Ikea article of the riot that happened at the opening of one of its UK branches nor is there mention of the shooting at Glastonbury Festival in that respective article (these are just two examples). Even if the incident was relevant to the game it would be inappropriate to include it in this article because it is not about the game . Kurushi (talk) 19:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I really question it's relevance, it's, without meaning to sound callous, a case of wrong place, wrong time. The guy could have been queing at an ATM machine or in a grocers shop or whatever and it wouldn't have got a fraction of the attention. Douglasnicol (talk) 19:52, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

"Pre-launch violence" Section

I think the inclusion "Pre-launch violence" section is POV and reeks of tabloid jornalism gunning for the game. The wikipedia article on Nike shoes does not have any mention on people getting robbed for their sneakers. --8bitJake (talk) 21:05, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Agree. People get robbed all the time (sadly). I do not see any reason why this is something else then with people being mugged at ATMs or on the street. Just because they were waiting to buy GTA4? That's rubbish and does not contribute anything to the article. --SoWhy ^Talk 21:12, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Disagree, I think especially this game is one where it can almost directly relate - no other games (not even Halo 3) are reported to have this, except maybe the PS3 as a console. // Gargaj (talk) 21:25, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

It is statistically insignificant compared to other major media products. The articles scream tabloid journalism of a desk editor looking to make news from fake news. There are NASCAR tracks that have jails in them. The Wikipeida article on NASCAR does not have a mention of crime at a NASCAR track. --8bitJake (talk) 21:57, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Hoping to build consensus, I add my name to those who say the section is unnecessary. Steve ^{T • C} 22:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

NIKOS NATIONALITY IS CONFIRMED IN OPENING CUTSCENE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpw0vIl4SEM

The opening cutscene confirms Niko and Roman to be Serbian. Specifically at 2:58 in the video. This isnt from an article or a biased source, ITS FROM THE GAME ITSELF. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rza90 (talk • contribs) 21:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Italy seems like a good guess. In the game, it mentioned "Old Country", and "Adriatic". Old country is referred to as Italy to Italian Immigrants and Italy is near the Adriatic Sea. I am looking for proof right now. signed by: Ferrariguy1000 (talk) 23:02, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Italy? How do you get Italy? It says Serbian, specifically says it. So you can change "nationality unknown" under plot right? 70.57.90.20 (talk) 23:12, 30 April 2008 (UTC)