Talk:Pierogi

Names

Let's list the names in all the languages. Please add what you know.

table

master table of East European dumplings

Language	singular	plural	diminutive plural	boiled plural	ears
Belarusian	пiрог, pirog	пiрагi, pirahi	пiражкi, pirazhki	варэнiкi, vareniki
Czech
Latvian	pīrāgs	pīrāgi	pīrādziņi	vareņiki	pelmeņi
Polish	pieróg	pierogi	pierożki	pierogi	uszka
Russian	пирог, pirog	пироги, pirogi	пирожки, pirozhki	вареники, vareniki	пельмени, piel'meni
Slovak	pirohy
Ukrainian	пиріг, pyrih	пироги, pyrohy	пиріжки, pyrizhky	вареники, varenyky	(в)ушка, (v)ushka

name talk

Hmmm, do вареники also fit in this table? [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 21:58, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

They do if they're served up with plenty of shkvarky and sour cream! Anyone feel like merging Varenyky and Vareniki? Should Plautdietsch be added to the table? —Michael Z. 22:49, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)

Do they have their p-dumplings as well? Also, I was also thinking of adding the column for the tortellini-shaped thingies (uszka, pielmieni and such). I believe they fit into the same category, although adding this column would probably lead us to prepare a list of all the dumplings in the world... [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 00:27, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

Mennonites in Manitoba make "vreneki" and "pryshki" (I'll find out how to spell that, although I understand Plautdietsch is only spoken). This stuff is so well known in these parts, that Hong Kong-style dim sum houses in Winnipeg describe some of their dishes as "Chinese perogies" on the menu.

They probably learned this from those "Prairie Ukrainians". See Glendon, Alberta in the article.Pustelnik 22:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

My Ukrainian mother only makes vushka (or ushka) with mushrooms to put into the Christmas borshch. Who else makes them?

Let's stick to the ones of East European origin here for now, but maybe dumplings could use a list of links.

—Michael Z. 01:50, 2004 Oct 28 (UTC)

Who makes them? I do! [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 06:03, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

Czechs and slovaks don't have a word for them because they don't eat them. I tried to find pierogies in the czech republic for a whole near with no success. I'm removing references to czechs and slovaks from the article. -- TheMightyQuill 21:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

No way, I was in Slovakia half a year ago, I ate pierogi... I don't remember name of them exactly, it was something like "pirohy", but it could be something like "kluski", but i have eaten them in restaurant, and i'm sure that there were pierogi :) Piotrek91 09:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

pyrohi is the czech term i think. 130.179.113.37 20:44, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

-- Its called Pirohy in Slovak and boy you could not been more wrong about Slovaks not eating them. Mainly popular in eastern parts of Slovakia and for a very long time! Stonufka 12:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

is this the same? regional variation and identification

Latvia

I entered correct latvian names, but I`m not sure for last two - I don`t think that there is such latvian food, so I added names of russian foods popular in Latvia. Also I`m suspicios that this food maybe isn`t latvaian food called pīrāgi, but other food that has similar name in other languages, because picture in article surely shows something else and dumpling also is something else, please look here http://elviss.bol.ucla.edu/piragi/ or search in google image search for piragi and make sure that it is same food -- Xil - talk 04:06, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

That looks more like the the Russian pirozhki. Rmhermen 03:29, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Pīrāgi is something like bread with meat, made out of leaven dough. These in pictures look like type of ordinary pelmeni. That, fact that pīrāgi are not served with soup and also fact that Latvian dumplings, called klimpas are served in soup made me thought that maybe you are mistaking pie for dumpling -- Xil/talk 23:40, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Russian Pirozhki

In my mind, this Russian bun is completely different, not a dumpling at all, as are all the other variants discussed here. I think it should have its own article, and this pierogi article should say something like "not to be confused with Russian pirozhki".--BillFlis 01:34, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Agree, would clear up much confustion. Kevlar67 (talk) 02:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Poland

Quark (food) filling

Pierogi in Poland contain mainly quark, rather than cheese. The article Cheese doesn't mention Quark (food). I would replace cheese by quark in "Pierogi", is it O.K.? (unsigned)

Sure! Though citations are cool, if you can add some... - Akb4 22:59, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Polish Leniwe pierogi

Leniwe pierogi in Poland aren't pierogi. Could someone explain it in the article? Xx236 13:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Here you have a photo of pierogi leniwe --> Leniwe pierogi. Why they are so called - I don't know ;) They are more similar to kopytka. Pierogi leniwe means lazy pierogi. Piotrek91 21:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Taxonomy

Since we at this classification thing, I suggest to put a complete taxonomy in place first; kinda sorta like in phonetics for consonants. Let's classify dough by a reasoable set of traits and make a really big table. The first step is to define the set of significant traits. For starters:

• Type of flour
• Type of dough/batter
• Type of filling
• Way of filling
  • Inmixed
  • Wrapped
    • Semi-wrapped
    • Way of wrapping (folded/rolled/squeezed, etc.)
  • On top
  • Layered
• Shape
• Size
• Treatment/preparation
• Consumption
• Health risks
• ...

Mikkalai 07:23, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

shape

the article says crescent shaped, but really they are more or less semi-circular in my experience. Chinese dumplings often seem crescent shaped, but pierogi that I've had are made by folding a circle in half over the filling. - Akb4 22:59, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

-- Flat dough is cut circular shape using a cup or glass and after filling is added its folded over to enclose the whole thing and than droped in to boiling water. Stonufka 12:47, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Pyrohy

In this article, Ukrainian cuisine, it states that pyrohy is different than the definition of perogies in this article. It seems to be a dessert type dumpling, and varenyky seems to be what this article describes. Pyrohy, however, forwards to this page. Varenyky does not. --Kmsiever 04:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

See below, it's a Canadian Ukrainian vs. Standard Ukrainian thing. Kevlar67 (talk) 01:59, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Opening paragraph

The first sentence says they are "Ukrainian filled dumplings." How exactly are they Ukrainian if just below it says that their origin is untraceable? This seems very POV to me seeing as this is a common food in many other European countries. JRWalko 20:59, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

grammars will being incorrects?

By the 1960s, pierogi were a common supermarket item in the frozen food aisles in parts of the United States and Canada. Pierogis maintain their place in the grocery aisles to this day.

someone who understands english please tell me what form is correct... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 159.250.23.2 (talk) 12:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

Undid revision 157778056 by 75.108.24.83

I reverted the page back to its prior incarnation to get rid of the apparent clamor about pirogi being Polish (as opposed to "Slavic") and its bizarre reference to communists. If pirogi are more accurately described as "Polish" rather than "Slavic," then change the words to reflect this fact; the previous commentary ("communists" et al.) does not belong on this page. 71.215.130.85 04:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)Bosterson

Clean up article

This article is a mess. Seriously. Has anyone tried reading it start-to-finish? It lists many things twice or more, and some information is conflicting itself (origin of the name). 24.8.142.67 06:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)JakubH

ok, I just took a stab at it. I'd say our big remaining problem is that the Russian/Ukrainian distinctions are very confusing. I can't figure out if a vareniki and a pierogi are the same thing or not. If they are, why do Ukrainians in North America use the term pierogi? -- Akb4 23:48, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

They are the same thing but North American Ukrainians speak a particular dialect of Ukrainian influnced by Polish, which is why they called them пироги, pyrohy. This was too hard for English-speakers to say (when you roll the "r" properly is sounds like ped-a-hay), so they created an English word for them, perogy which is what the overwhealming majority of English speakers in Canada know them as, and how the big grocery chains sell them. Now unfortunately perogy the word refers to a different food in Standard Ukrainian and Russian. But this article isn't about that. Kevlar67 (talk) 01:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Revisting the name issue

Essentially, this is what I think. In Canada, in English this food is most often spelled Perogy / Perogies. That's how the big manufactures and retailers sell them (e.g. Cheemo, Safeway, M&M Meat Shops, Sobey's, Superstore, etc.) and many of those companies operate in the US as well, so I don't think it's a stretch to say they probably use that spelling there too. This this is the English WP, that spelling should be the title, as unatural as it looks to speakers of slavic languages. The English word perogy includes uk /ru Vareniki. They are the same food called by two different words, and that article should be merged here. WP cataglouges things, wiktionary catalouges words, so all the rival spellings could get their own Wikitionary entry, but not a WP article. There could be a seperate article created for the baked dish called perogi in Russian, becuase it is a seperate food, not just a spelling variant. Kevlar67 (talk) 19:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Since no one has given me any good reasons against, I will shortly merge Vareniki here, and rename it perogy. Kevlar67 (talk) 02:04, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Pot Stickers

They look like pot stickers. Are they similar?