Talk:List of Rhodes Scholars

Notables

Note: This discussion has been "pruned" - the full text is included on this page as hidden comments

I have suspicions that some of the redlinked names here are vanity/vandalism and propose that they all be removed, unless accompanied by a good external source. If they're notable then they should have a WP article to support the claim. —Moondyne 02:31, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I also "have suspicions that some of the redlinked names here are vanity/vandalism".

And I agree that "If they're notable then they should have a WP article to support the claim."

I'm forced to wonder about 1998's Deer Hunter (placed in the 1980s list), and some of the other redlinks are not particularly informative. e.g.

James Bathurst University Of Sussex, University Of Melbourne

Tom Krieger (Virginia and Virginia Tech) productivity consultant

Rather than delete them, I've decided to turn these three into hidden comments.

Cheers, Pdfpdf 11:55, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

My aim is always to turn red to blue and and I'd love to see a completely blue list here. I'm happy to work with you to achieve that. My original point was that the list had a few dubious entries and as they were only a few, it'd be doing little harm to remove the reds entirely. As for deleting or commenting out, the effect is the same. It is generally accepted that its OK to have redlinks in articles as that encourages articles to be written. But we don't have to follow every guidleine literally. But I'm honestly not fussed as long as I know someone has an eye on it and it is not getting flooded with rubbish. Have a good weekend! —Moondyne 17:20, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

PS: Peter Rathjen is next on my hitlist. —Moondyne 17:23, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

PPS: I do like the table - much better. —Moondyne 17:35, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad you like the table. I guess I'd classify myself as a bit of a gnome. (Being an Ozzie male, I steer clear of being thought of as a fairy!) Currently, I would divide the redlinks into four categories:

1. I'm surprised these aren't already blue links
2. Thats a bit vague!
3. This person doesn't sound likely to be notable
4. I don't have sufficient information - yet - to make a judgement

(I would also say some of the blue links fall into some of these categories too, but I digress - let's deal with one problem at a time!)

So I've created these four lists. So what? When I started, I thought they would be useful. Now, I'm not so sure.

Your thoughts? Cheers, Pdfpdf 00:46, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Question regarding Olympic athletes: Does being / having been an Olympic athlete in and of itself make you notable?
(My guess is "yes", but I'd like a more reliable opinion than "my guess"!) Pdfpdf 09:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Further P.S.

• Creating the table is going to take a while; I've "reverted" that bit of Rhodes Scholarship#Notable Rhodes Scholarship recipients and created a new page Notable Rhodes Scholars. When it's acceptable, I'll link the two and remove the "raw data" from #Notable ... recipients
• Those red links are now starting to annoy me, too!!

Pdfpdf 02:34, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Red links

I'm surprised these aren't already blue links

• Albrecht Graf von Bernstorff Germany Trinity 1909 German diplomat, executed for conspiracy against Hitler, 1945
• John Monk Saunders Washington Magdalen 1918 Screenwriter of Wings and The Dawn Patrol
• Eric Prabhakar (India & Christ Church 1948), Indian Olympic athlete
• Thomas A. Bartlett (Oregon & University 1951), President of the American University in Cairo, 1963-1969, Interim President of AUC, 2002-2003; Chancellor of the University of Alabama System, 1981-1989; Chancellor of the State University of New York, 1994-1996
• Laurie Ackermann (Cape Province & Worcester 1954), Justice of the Constitutional Court of South Africa
• Lord (Johan) Steyn (Cape Province & University 1955), UK Lord Justice of Appeal
• Virendra Dayal (India & University 1956), Under-Secretary-General of the United Nations
• Ranjit Bhatia (India & Jesus 1957), Indian Olympic athlete
• Manmohan Malhoutra (India & Balliol 1958), Assistant Secretary-General of the Commonwealth
• Paul Bamberg, Professor of Mathematics and Physics at Harvard University
• Rt Rev Thomas Frerking OSB (Harvard 1966), Abbot, Abbey of St. Mary and St. Louis
• Stephen A. Oxman (New Jersey & New College 1967), U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European and Canadian Affairs, 1993-1994
• J. Gustave Speth (South Carolina & Balliol 1964), Administrator of the United Nations Development Programme, 1993-1999, Dean of School of Forestry and Environmental Studies, Yale
• Walter B. Slocombe (Michigan & Balliol 1963), U.S. Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, 1994-2001, Senior Advisor for National Defense for the CPA, Baghdad, 2003
• Richard H. Trainor (Rhode Island & Merton 1970), Principal of Kings College London
• Elliot F. Gerson (Connecticut & Magdalen 1974), American Secretary of the Rhodes Trust, Vice President of the Aspen Institute, Deputy Attorney General of Connecticut
• Annette Salmeen (California & St John's 1997), 1996 American Olympic gold medalist in swimming
• David R. Woods (Rhodes & University 1963), Vice-Chancellor of Rhodes University

"That's a bit vague ... "

• Tanjore R. Anantharaman (India & Trinity 1951), Indian metallurgist
• Ranjit Roy Chaudhury (India & Magdalen 1955), medical scientist
• Peter Rathjen (South Australia & New College 1985), Australian stem cell scientist, Dean of Science, University of Melbourne 2006-
• Brian K. Whittington (Mississippi) Math & Science and Songwriter 1984

This person doesn't sound likely to be notable

• Gilles Berthiaume (Keble 1966), Program Manager, Fujitsu Siemens Computers
• J. Michael Kirchberg, Jr. (California & Brasenose 1967), USNA, American educator
• Robert Dowdell (Sydney 1979), Deputy School Administrator of Sydney Boys High School, Sheriff

I don't have sufficient information (yet) to make a judgement

• Earnest A. Hooten Wisconsin 1907 American physical anthropologist
• Herbert Eugene Clefton Minnesota 1919 Teacher in Minneapolis, then a Professor at University of Minnesota
• W. Denham Sutcliffe (Hertford 1937), English scholar at Bates College, Kenyon, and Harvard.
• Courtney Craig Smith (Iowa & Merton 1938), educationalist, President of Swarthmore College
• Paul J. Bohannan (Arizona & Queen's 1947), American social anthropologist
• Benjamin Bernard Dunlap 1959, President of Wofford College, Professor of humanities
• David C. Hardesty, Jr. (West Virginia & Queen's 1967), President of West Virginia University
• Deepak Nayyar (India & Balliol 1967), Vice Chancellor of Delhi University
• Aftab Seth (India & Christ Church 1965), Indian Ambassador to Japan
• William Dennis Shaul (Ohio & Exeter) Legal Counsel for House Banking Committee
• James R. Atlas (Illinois & New College 1971), American writer (The New Yorker)
• Paul Blustein (Wisconsin & Merton 1973), American author and journalist (The Washington Post)
• Christopher Eisgruber (Oregon & University 1983), Provost of Princeton University
• Ronald Tenpas (Michigan State 1984), Associate Deputy Attorney General, U.S. Department of Justice, 2005-

Sanity check

Pdfpdf,

• I moved Talk:Rhodes Scholarship/Notables to here (Talk:Notable Rhodes Scholars) as that seemed the sensible thing to do.

Sensible - Agreed. (Embarassing, but sensible ... )

• First glance and it looks excellent. Much better than yet another un-useful list and having a separate article is a good move also. I will try to look at it more closely over the next few days.

Thanks.

• I apologise for dropping the ball on this. I've been distracted with issues closer to home and haven't had a chance to even look at Peter Rathjen, but I promise I will shortly. —Moondyne 06:49, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

No need to apologise. (I don't see any urgency.) I was just interested; I wondered what "stem cell scientist" really means, and wondered if he really did study at UniSA. (If so, he must be one of UniSA's first Rhodes Scholars.) Pdfpdf 08:53, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Red Link removal

Rathjen

No, I thought not. The List of SA Rhodes Scholars says: Peter David Rathjen studied at Blackwood HS, University of Adelaide, and New College (1985). (I've changed the table.) Pdfpdf 08:57, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Done! —Moondyne 10:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow! Impressive!!
(i.e. The thoroughness and standard of your page, the speed with which you produced it, and Rathjen's achievements!)
Who are you going to take on now!? ;-) Pdfpdf 11:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Indian Rhodes Scholars

Thanks. I was wondering why there's so few names in Category:Indian Rhodes scholars (2 currently), so from your first two categories above, I'd say Eric Prabhakar, Ranjit Bhatia, Manmohan Malhoutra, Tanjore R. Anantharaman and Ranjit Roy Chaudhury should be looked at (but they'll probably only be stubs). —Moondyne 12:43, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

My guess is that there are not many Indian users of English WP. Good luck! Pdfpdf 13:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I'll bet there are. Category:Wikipedians in India shows several hundred at least. Wikipedia:WikiProject India shows they have 23000 articles and 71 featured articles which is comparable to Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia —Moondyne 01:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, that was a bad guess, wasn't it! At the moment, I have no idea why there are so few in "Indian Rhodes Scholars". I'm afraid I must concentrate on Income Tax for the moment, but I'll have a look around and see what I can find.

http://www.rhodesscholarships-india.com/history.htm

The 52 original scholarships

The scheme was unprecedented in scale as well as vision. Rhodes' original will provided for 52 scholarships each year. 20 scholarships were for countries then forming part of the British Empire: two for Canada (one each for Ontario and Quebec), six for Australia (one for each colony or state), five for South Africa (one each for Natal and for four named schools in the Cape), three for Rhodesia, and one each for New Zealand, Newfoundland, Bermuda and Jamaica. 32 scholarships were for the United States: two every three years for each of the then States of the Union.

No mention of India!

Scholarships to India and Women

While the 52 scholarships in the original will are still offered annually, a number of changes and additions have been made. These include introduction of scholarships to the Commonwealth countries including India. Prof. Asim Kumar Datta (Christ Church, 1947) and Late Mr. Lovraj Kumar (Magdalen, 1947) comprised the first batch of Indian Rhodes Scholars. For the first 38 years, India had one or two scholarships every year. The number of scholarships was increased to three per year in 1985, and four per year in 1991.

In 1979, Amrita Cheema became the first woman from India to be awarded a Rhodes Scholarship, and in 1995, Ms. Roopa Unnikrishnan became the 100th Rhodes Scholar from India. Since 1998, six scholars are elected from India every year. Unlike USA and many other Rhodes constituencies that have a "quota" for each state, Indian Rhodes scholarships are awarded on an All-India basis. However, our selection procedure involves zonal interviews (in the North, East, West and South zones) to shortlist candidates for the final interview and screening process.

So, very roughly, about 170 have been awarded.
(i.e. 1947-84: 38*1.5= approx 60; 1985-90: 6*3= approx 20; 1991-97: 7*4= approx 30; 1998-2007 10*6=60)
Not many for a country with a billion inhabitants. (Well, at least women are now eligible!!)

I'll keep looking for a list of names/dates. Pdfpdf 02:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Interesting link. Perhaps an email to mailto:secretary@rhodesscholarships-india.com might uncover something. —Moondyne 03:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes. If my search comes up empty, that will be the next step. Pdfpdf 03:48, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Content and title of "University" column in tables

68.34.126.100 has started to rename the column header as "District", after trying to work out what was in the column and trying to come up with an appropriate descriptor for the column's contents.

I agree that the column's contents are a random collection, and I'm not sure what it is that they are a random collection of!! Mostly, it looks like the area in which the university they attended is located. It doesn't seem to contain the area where they were born, raised, did their major work, or died. Hence, I have been changing the content to the name of the University they attended when doing the work which led them to be awarded the scholarship.

A number of points arise out of this, but I think the only important one is:

What should this column contain?

Opinions please. Pdfpdf 00:44, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Sortname?

Is the use of a Sortname field in a table typical in Wikipedia? It seems clumsy to me. If being able to sort by last name is important, shouldn't we format the contents of the Name field as "Lastname, Firstname?" Mtrumpbour (talk) 22:18, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea if it is typical. (If there is another mechanism, please educate me.)

Yes, it is clumsy, but have you a better way to do it?

Yes, sorting by last name is important.

The problem with the name field containing "Lastname, Firstname" is that, by definition, everyone in this table is notable and hence (in theory) has a WP page, and I can guarantee you that not one of those pages has the title "Lastname, Firstname", so, by itself, your proposal is not an option.

You could go through and change every name to [[wiki-page-name|Lastname, Firstname]] if you wished, but that would be a lot of work, and what would you achieve? What is there already does the job, and I expect you will annoy lots of people if you make changes like [[Bob Hawke|Hawke, Robert J. L. (Bob)]] etc.

However, I might be completely wrong, so feel free to do whatever you please - just make sure that there is always in place a mechanism to sort by surname. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 05:53, 7 March 2008 (UTC)