Talk:Emir Kusturica

Missing link

His linkage to the band "The No Smoking Orchestra" is missing in the text, it is only visible from one image. Chris --80.134.151.130 22:47, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

About inserting Emir's baptismal name into his full name

If you check out Category:Serbian_people, you will se that Serbs don't write their baptismal name in their full name. So, it is wrong to write "Emir Nemanja Kusturica". "Emir Kusturica" is sufficient. --Dijxtra 08:36, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

- Basically, Nemanja Kusturica is proper and sufficient, as he gave up his given name (Emir) upon conversion to orthodoxy. Just for the sake of convenience and recognisability, editor should leave a remark about his former name somewhere in the text, and/or arrange redirection from 'emir kusturica' when searching, to this page.

• See Willy Brandt - 'Willy Brandt, born Herbert Ernst Karl Frahm'. So, proper and correct way is to enter Nemanja Kusturica, born Emir Kusturica

Objective?

In The Widow of St. Pierre 2000, a movie by director Patrice Leconte, Kusturica, here in his first appearance as an actor, has little in the way of lines, but his eyes and body language speak volumes.

This doesn't seem all that objective to me?

Also, Nikolaidis - the writer who critisized Kusturica - is from Montenegro, not Bosnia.

I fixed the Nikolaidis thing, thanks for pointing that out... and as for the "body language speaks volumes", well dunno, it seems to violate NPOV a bit, but just I don't feel like modifying that sentence :-) --Dijxtra 17:20, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

A.Nikolaidis is from Bosnia(born there(Sarajevo) in 1974).He went to Montenegro(Ulcinj)with his family(his father's side is originally from Ulcinj,while his mother's side from Sarajevo-Bosnia) in 1992.

Allocation of material

It's pretty ridiculous that close to one half of the article about a world famous director is devoted to what some attention-seeking two-bit columnist had to say about him. Nikolaidis' criticism is worthy of mention but it certainly doesn’t require this much space.Zvonko -- 20:48, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, he is controversial... and I think the chapter summes up the controversy nicely. But, yes, you are right, more info on other aspects of Kusturica would be nice. It's just I don't know where to get any more info... --Dijxtra 20:52, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I would like to point out that Nikolaidis is not, by any chance, an attention-seeking two-bit columnist, but a critically acknowledged author, and I honestly feel that there is not enough talk about Kusturica's controversy. -- 25 august 2006

BTW, if you log in, you can sign with ~~~~. This four characters wil then transform to this: Dijxtra 20:53, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

If you want to add more to the article you could talk about his work with the No Smoking Orchestra, it's only mentionned once in the article. --Red Star 01:34, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Controversial lyrics

Last addition to the article is absurd. The song does not contain those lyrics at all.

I fought the law

The law fought me

Hey mr sheriff

Where I might be

I might have fun

In port of Amstredam

I might be a jerk

In City of New York

I might be close

I might be far

I might be a star

Over Kandahar

It's time to say goodbye oh my darling

Save your tears and give a kiss to our son

I hope the Northern star will be shining

I'm a wanted man and I'm on the run

Inquisition,

human rights division

Soul selling and buying

Cultural revision

Work out Rambo

And get those evil men

It all goes with burgers

Hollywood and CNN

I did a crime

I created fear

I created fear

for a 1000 years

it's time…

If I was a pigon

You made me a falcon

Now I am falcon

over hills of Balkan

if I was a wisper

You made me a thunder

And I wonder and I wonder

Why you made me a thunder

And I wonder still I wonder

You need me as a thunder

See me in the papers

On the billboard paint

I was a sinner

You made me a saint

It'is time…

The old shepherd trick

For his sheep

The wolf as a stick

Makes them sleep

Makes them blind

Makes them sleep

Makes them silent

Makes them sleep

And when I find myself

Locked in prison

Mother Mary comes to me

Oh mother Mary who will be

Wanted man instead of me

It's time…

65.94.132.77 19:47, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

As I got it, on the live version, the song has this lyrics at the end. --Dijxtra 09:24, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

The whole thing sounds very ridiculous so far. Initially, the story appeared in something called ‘Start BiH’, magazine that can, at best, be described as sensationalist.[1] The best strategy for selling papers in Sarajevo is sticking Kusturica on the cover, and this magazine being clearly aware of that used it to sell some copies (as they did on numerous prior occasions when they had him on the cover for no newsworthy reasons). Secondly, Start's story is clearly false in its core because they claimed the actual lyric appears in the song, which is definitely not true. That can be easily checked since the song’s lyrics are available on the net.

Around the same time, a few Croatian media outlets picked up the story. Some of them seem to suggest the sentence was actually delivered outside of the song, while others repeat the false ‘Bosnian story’ verbatim. None provided context nor did they state who allegedly said ‘the sentence’.

So, based on the available info so far, I don’t know if all of this is pure garbage, or in the case there is something to the story , who should the sentence be attributed to (Nele?, Kusturica?, bass player??, drummer????).

On top of everything, Nele himself rubbished the story in Blic yesterday.[2]

And… not to mention the fact that the sentence itself is almost nonsensical and as such actually does not clearly refer to any specific person. In the end I wouldn’t even be surprised if it turns out they have an accordion player or driver named Radovan, and used that to create a stir like they did with ‘the Marshal episode’ in 1984.Zvonko 20:21, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree, this is highly sensitive stuff. But, we're here to enforce NPOV and cite our sources. Sooo, we'll do that and see where the developement of this story takes us. If we just stick to Wikipedia guidelines, I'm sure we'll be fine. I'll add now that Nele demanted the story (as soon I read the article). BTW, I wouldn't be surprised to hear Emir say something like that, but Nele... I attend the same faculty as Sejo and I thought to go and ask Sejo if he thinks that Nele could do something like that. I mean, I don't think Nele would approve a song like that. But, then again, that's my POV...

And as for the lyric, the fact that the verse is not in the official lyrics means nothing... just remember Bregović's "a krist je bio kopile i jad" ;-) --Dijxtra 21:10, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I spoke to Sejo Sexon today. On my great surprise, he confirmed this and said he got the bootleg of the song 3 years ago. Now, this fact 1) is a hearsay, 2) doesn't exist in a written form. Therefore, it cannot be used as a reference. Therefore, I think it's best to keep the article as is (not to remove the paragraph, but not to add Sejo's remark as nobody except me heard it).

Sejo could not have heard the song three years ago, as the controversial lyric was sung in 2005, and is on the live album "Live is a miracle in Buenos Aires" ;) --estavisti 19:14, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Dunno. I just said what he said. I mean, could be that it was sung prior to being released on live album. BTW, if it's released, why doesn't somebody buy it and check that out, once and for all? :-) --Dijxtra 19:53, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation?

Is the listed pronunciation (stress on the penultimate syllable) correct? I don't speak Serbian (C-S-B-M-etc.), but would rather expect something along the lines of the stress falling on first or second syllable. Could somebody in the know give it a look? Cheers -- 198.36.32.17 17:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Religious background.

"This is what Emir says about this: "My father was an atheist and he always described himself as a Serb. OK, maybe we were Muslim for 250 years, but we were Orthodox before that and deep down we were always Serbs, religion cannot change that. We only became Muslims to survive the Turks."" Well obviously, after he got married with his Serbian wife he decided to change his religion to orthodox. He only became Orthodox to survive his wife? He never had a problem with his religion until the war came, and when he married a serbian wife. Now after he's married his wife she obviously did everything she can to make him a real Serb. I myself am Atheist.

He reverted back to being a Serb because "[He family was] Muslim for 250 years, but we were Orthodox before that and deep down we were always Serbs, religion cannot change that. We only became Muslims to survive the Turks." In addition, he is my favorite Serb in the world and I truly see him as a 100% Serb and accept him as such.24.36.19.38 (talk) 11:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Where is the proof?

where is the proof that Kusturica converted to Orthodox Christianity? or did he automatically change due to his marriage? Wathiik 20:53, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

There, I referenced the claim. He didn't marry, he just went to the church and baptised. --Dijxtra 21:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

It is ridiculous that people are so judgmental about religious conversion. Why the assumption that he only converted because of his wife? He is a grown man with a strong will and intelligent mind. This is as ridiculous as assuming that conversion to Islam is insincere because the person happens to be originally Orthodox Christian or Catholic. Esmama 18:56, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

What is revival for Kusturica?

In some of his movies characters turn to be alive after being dead for some time. How does he explain it, what does he tell about it?

IPA Transcription

shouldn't it be /kusturitsa/ rather than /-tza/? The stress also is wrong, it sounds more like /'kusturitsa/ or even (in Bosnia) /'kusturtsa/, but someone who knows about serbian/croatian/bosnian tones should insert the correct stress/tone pattern. Wathiik 13:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I changed it now according to the information provided to me by a specialist in the field. The first /u/ has to be long and rising, does anyone know how to transcribe that? Can anyone verify that? Wathiik 20:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

About name

First u in surname Kusturica is short and accented. In his nickname "Kusta" u is long and also accented. So, it would look like this: ku.stu.ri.tza. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crnnica (talk • contribs) 22:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

Ethnicity

He is not a Bosnian Serb. He is Bosnian so please leave it as it is. Going to Orthodox church and being baptized does not make you a Bosnian Serb. It makes you a Bosnian of Orthodox religion.

Emir Kusturica

Emir kusturia has himself, serveral times made clear for others that he is a serb. Who are really the bosnians? The first one to convert in Bosnia were serb aristocracies, so they could ceap theire privligas. Then others started to convert, ordinary people, only to suvive the brutal turks - for 500 years! The conception "bosnian" was mabey used at that time, but it was not refering to any nationality. For example: I sometimes call myself a "herzegivn", for I am from Herzegovina, but i am still 100% Serb.

_____________________________________________________________

Nationality

I'm the user under the collective IP 212.200.56.13 that has made an edit that annoyed many. When I first opened the Wikipedia page about Emir Kusturica, I found out that he was considered "Bosnian", so I changed it to 'Serbian' only to be accused of 'hijacking' and to be discriminated about my country of origin ("If you feel so strongly about your country, go and do something rather than hijacking others achievments", Hmm1984), and the Serbian reference was deleted in the article. I suppose it was OK to leave "Bosnian" for months although he is not Bosnian director, but it isn't OK to mention that he is Serbian, although he is.

Emir Kusturica is born as Bosnian Muslim of Montenegrin origin, and unlike other Bosnian Muslims, he declares himself as Serb and not Bosniak. Note: Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Bosniaks are one people of one language and culture, divided only by religious affiliation - Bosnian Serbs consider themselves kins to Serbian, Montenegrin and Croatian Serbs, while Bosniaks don't. So, considering Kusturica's ethnicity, it is only fair to say that he is a Serb, or, more precise, a Bosnian Serb. The ethnicity in Bosnia and Herzegovina depends only on one's self-declaration, and not on any objective criteria. For instance, although most Orthodox Christians refer to themselves as Serbs, and Muslims as Bosniaks, there are some Orthodoxes who declare as Bosniaks, as well as some Muslims who declare as Serbs. Therefore, Kusturica is no "traitor" or "converter" as suggested, but a full-blooded born Serb of Muslim confession. That is, he was, until he was baptized in Orthodox Church and became a Christian accepting baptismal name Nemanja. If some Bosnian patriots wish to give a stronger accent of his region of birth, it is only correct to say that he was Bosnian Serb.

Second, the matter of nationality. Kusturica made three films (two in Bosnia and Herzegovina and one in Serbia) in former Yugoslavia (dissolved in early 1990's), living and working in Sarajevo, which is now the capital of Bosnia and Herzegovina. It is important to stress that since the dissolution of Yugoslavia, Kusturica has been living and working in Serbia. The only two countries he has lived in were Yugoslavia and Serbia. Why is then inappropriate to say that he was Yugoslavian as well as Serbian? Because, following the pattern where other living people who were born before the Yugoslavian dissolution are associated either with ethnicity or with residence to the new countries, he is Serbian. A conflict may occur if a person of Serbian ethnicity lives and works in Croatia (or vice versa), and when it is fair to mention that the word is about a 'Croatian Serb' or 'Serbian Croat' or 'Montenegrin Serb' etc. But if a person is of Croatian ethnicity and lives in Croatia, or of Macedonian ethnicity and lives in Macedonia, we don't talk about every single town and village they lived in Yugoslavia nor we present them as Yugoslavian, but only as belonging to the country which coincides with their ethnicity. For instance, Belgrade actor Žarko Radić was of Croatian ethnicity and has lived and worked in Serbia until the 1990's, and when the war started, he moved to Croatia. The same as many Sarajevo Serbs moved to Serbia, as well as Kusturica, running away from war that errupted, and leaving the Bosniak-majority regions. Žarko Radić isn't mentioned as "Serbian" or "Yugoslavian", but as Croatian. And he should be, since he is an ethnic Croat that lives in Croatia. The same with Kusturica.

To conclude (I am sorry for the long text, but I wanted to make clear the true reasons of my interventions, which are not hijackings), Emir Kusturica is Serbian director who is of Bosnian Serb origin. Why Serbian? Because Serbia is the country he represents, the country whose citizen he is, the country where he resides and works, and because Serbia is a (by its constitutional definitions) mother-country of all Serbs worldwide. If someone feels that it is important to speak about the specific details about his Serbian ethnicity (religion, birthplace, country of origin etc.) it can be mentioned later in the text. For the basic input, he is Serbian, and that's all about it. Marechiel 02:23, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Emir is a Muslim name and he is from Sarajevo, he is a Bosniak from Bosnia. 217.134.88.96 18:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Emir is an universal Muslim name but not unique Bosniak name. Why to insist on his Bosniak ethnical background if he denied it? According to Kusturica, his father Murat was Serb. As somebody already said, the ethnicity in the most of former Yugoslavia depends only on one's self-declaration, and not on any objective criteria. --N Jordan 00:12, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

And Nemanja is a Serbian name. Kusturica is from Serbia now, not Bosnia any more. --George D. Božović 16:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

As 217.134.88.96 said, Emir is a traditional name among Muslims. But not all Muslims are Bosnian Bosniaks. Some are Arabs, some are Turks, some are American members of black Nation of Islam, and some are Bosnian Serbs as Kusturica. Marechiel 13:48, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

"Orthodox name"

“Orthodox name” doesn’t have any meaning in English. There is something called Christian name or baptism name – that is a name formally given to a person during baptism. When we say that Kusturica is a Serbian filmmaker and actor, we don’t emphasize his ethnic background but the fact that he belongs to the Serbian cinematography. You may describe him as a Bosnian Serb in the "Religion and identity" section, but at the beginning of the article we should talk about cinematography – not ethnicity.--N Jordan (talk) 07:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)