Talk:Gary, Indiana

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removed stuff

I have removed a few things in an attempt to fix the tone of this article, also to remove some POV, essentially I am not attempting to create problems by doing this I am attmpting to clean things up below are a few of the things I have removed. I reworded some things, and I may reword a few more of these things for future additition to the article, please take no contempt for anything I have done

In fact many who attended elementary school in Gary -- especially those from Gary's "Miller" (now called the "Miller Beach") section -- can recall having to read a little brown booklet about Gary called "Gary: City on Sand."

The Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore extends several miles into Gary.

However, to the West of Gary are the urban cities of Whiting, and then the Indiana/Illinois border and the southernmost neighborhood of Chicago itself. From Gary to its West is a continuing, urban metroplex... ending-up right in Chicago proper. In fact, Gary is much closer to downtown Chicago than most people -- even those who live in Chicago -- realize. Many who live and work in Chicago tend to think of Northwest Indiana as being far away and "out in the boonies." They don't realize that it's actually closer from downtown Gary to downtown Chicago (and is a shorter commute thereto) than are many of the Chicago suburbs with which they're more familiar, and which they tend to consider to be more "acceptable" being called Chicago suburbs. The number of people who live in Gary -- especially its Miller (or Miller Beach) section -- but who work in Chicago, is huge. And many of them are familiar with being thought of by Chicagoans as less a member of the community of those who live in what are considered to be the "Chicago suburbs" than are those who live in Illinois to Chicago's South, West and North.

So close, in fact, to Chicago is Gary that most of Gary's media -- its TV and radio stations, newspapers, etc. -- tends to be Chicago-based. And standing on any of Gary's beaches, day or night, one can usually see the Chicago skyline to the northwest, which is less than 15 miles away as the crow flies.

Another indication of Gary's closeness to Chicago (and, in the minds of some, its fundamental disconnectedness from the rest of Indiana) is the fact that Gary (and the rest of Northwest Indiana) is in the Central Time Zone, along with Chicago. Most of Indiana is considered to be in the Eastern Time zone.

For these reasons, and more, it is not uncommon for those from Gary who find themselves in other parts of the United States to just say they are from Chicago.

but such nosedives in temperature are typically short-lived. Gary's temperatures, generally, are moderated by its proximity to Lake Michigan. As anyone who lives near a large body of water will attest, water has a tendency to keep the warmest temperatures from getting as high, or the lowest temperatures from getting as low, as they do inland. Lake Michigan has that mediating affect on Gary... especially the parts of the city nearest the lake.

Another mediating effect of Lake Michigan is that it tends to keep away tornadoes. The typical difference in barometric pressure from the inland areas (where tornadoes are more likely) to the shoreline areas around the lake makes most Northward-heading tornadoes (from Southern inland areas) lift and break-up before they can do any damage to the cities that sit on Lake Michigan's Southern shore. That's not to say that a tornado is impossible in Gary; it's just that they're significantly less likely than is possible only a few miles to the South because of the Lake's mediating affects.

And because of the lake, Gary can also be quite humid... surprisingly so, in fact, considering the fact that it's inland. The old saying, "it's not the heat, it's the humidity" can be a painfully true reality there. Hot summers are often exacerbated by high humidity levels, making them seem even hotter.

I welcome any readditions of any of these sections if thought necessary though they do need a bit of rewording --MJHankel 01:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Murder Capital of the US?

Nowhere in the article is there mention of Gary's reputation for having the highest murders per capita in the United States. Just because it is unpleasant does not mean we need to disclude it.

As mentioned in previous talk pages, a graph to show the lowering murder rates would be useful, but simply discluding one of the things Gary is known for would be akin to lying. Simply adding a line in the History section to this effect would be enough.

Aparently, Washington Dc is now the murder capital of the US, but Gary is still high in its category. Statistics available here: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/01cius.htm

SailorSpork 23:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Gary has not been the capitol by definition for a number of years now, having been passed in different years by Newark, Detroit, New Orleans and Washington, DC, among other places. Gary's prior multiple-year run has seemingly stuck in the minds of many. --Mhking 23:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

According to CNN Gary had the second highest murder rate in the coutnry in 2006. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/28/murder.board.nola/index.html If the reputation is no longer deserved it is worth noting that while it is no longer the "murder capital" of the country people's perceptions have not changed. -Liz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.250.34.161 (talk) 14:53, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Abandoned Downtown?

A recent visitor explained to me that downtown is full of completely abandoned properties, and that there is one recently improved strip of the downtown retail area that just like almost all of the rest of downtown has no open shops. It seems like rust belt urban decay of this magnitude should be mentioned if at all possible. -- M0llusk 05:37, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

The downtown is not completely abandoned. their are a couple blocks of nearly completely abandoned buildings, but they are spread out and caught up in legal tax problems currently. Their are businesses though and their are no completely abandoned areas. --MJHankel 21:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, the downtown is most definitely not completely abandoned. While clearly co-existing with numerous abandoned buildings and businesses, there are still many busy stores, restaurants, gas stations. I do not agree at all with the depiction and perception of Gary as a ghost town. With a population of around 100,000, Gary's downtown area is a busy, bustling place, especially in spring and summer.--Bennycat 23:39, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I live in Gary and work for the Fire Department, fires are way up and so is crime in general(*check the homicide numbers), theres alot less firefighters and cops on the job lately, the city owes the state 11 million. I get soooo tired of people saying Gary isn't that bad when it is!! Rudy Clay is un-doing everything Scott King worked so hard for. Gary usually has 13 firehouses on duty, but thanks to budget cuts we only have 8 of'em operating. I think Bennycat hasn't been to Gary since 1963! Don't believe me? Come to station 4 on Madison anyday, we'll show you the real Gary! And how about those plans for the old Sheraton? No one wants that building! The only question is how long until Rudy is arrested by the FBI like his buddy Harris —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manteno (talk • contribs) 09:17, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I was in Gary last Friday (09/28/07) and I wasn't born yet in 1963! But I take your point about the general hopelessness felt in the city. I do not live there, and I would therefore not presume to know with the same depth of knowledge as you do about the cold hard reality faced by the residents everyday. I understand that crime has spiked once again and that once again the city is being deprived of much needed funding due to mismanagement by an at best misguided or at worst corrupted city and county government system. I think the point I was trying to make was that people are very fond of pointing to Gary as a symbol of negativity, ravaged by crime: a 'dead' city, 'completely abandoned' as one writer above put it. The small amount of time that I spend in Gary each week coupled with the news reports that I watch and listen to do indeed point to a city with many problems. BUT, what also shines through is the pride, warmth and hard-working nature of many of the decent residents who love Gary and want to see things get better. To write the city off as totally hopeless is to completely ignore the valuable and selfless contribution that many ordinary people continue to make in correcting the course of this once beautiful city, police officers and fire fighters among them.--Bennycat 21:29, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Point taken Bennycat. The city isn't totally abandoned and vacant like Chernobyl as some picture it. There are lifelong residents that stay here, mostly because they have no other place to go. I wish I could say it isn't a city to "write off" but we are in the Chicagoland area so that's a given. Scott King made some progress but it's not possible to do anything without being on someones pocket. I would add some photos but Wiki is quick to delete just about any photo for whatever reason.--Manteno (talk 01:05, October 14 2007 (CST)

Photographs

As a frequent visitor of Gary, I am aware of the many delapidated and crumbling buildings in the city. It is important to highlight the sense of abandonment in Gary through photographs because clearly this has a great deal of factual basis. The photographs are indeed a welcome addition to the article. However, I feel that to solely focus on these buildings within the Photograph section of the article is not entirely representative of a city that is clearly beginning to turn a corner and has many new construction projects completed or under way. Photos of these projects would supplement and support the comments regarding new construction mentioned earlier in the article.

I understand that changing this aspect of the article would require someone to submit new photos. If anyone is willing to source photos of newer buildings in Gary, I would suggest perhaps beginning with a better picture of the new baseball park and perhaps the Post Tribune building on Broadway. Failing anyone taking up the task, being very new to Wikipedia, given some time, I may be able to learn how to do this appropriately--Bennycat 23:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

As someone who has been through a small amount of Gary, I think that there should be at least one picture of abandoned housing. One should be enough to keep the article balanced. Several pictures are available at this user's contributions. Royalbroil 18:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

As someone who grew up in Gary, I have to ask if you plan to conversely to add a picture of abandoned housing in other rust belt cities to their pages "for balance", or if your plan is just to point to Gary that way. --Mhking 18:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

white flight\black scare

It would seem to me, quite important to talk about the turn of the century and how migrating workers fleeing southern tyrrany scared off the native whit xenophobic population. Granted, this is a touchy subject, but it paints the begining of gary's history, and the vestiges of white flight survive to this day. Maybe something could be said to the nature of "the established population of white women and men fled the area basically gutting the infrastructure of what is today modern gary, leaving black migrants from the south to start anew in a region which is classicly not afforded the same fundings and oppurtunities as the rest of indiana. Additionally, endemic racism has aggravated the situation." maybe with less POV but my point remains. Anybody have good knowledge of dates and facts during the period between 1910-1940? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.189.40.225 (talk) 11:38, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

This is a highly complex issue, but I agree that this article is a worthy candidate to explore the 'white flight' concept. The 'white flight' witnessed in Gary was really a consequence of the decline in employment opportunities due to modernization in the steel industry, an aspect that has been adequately dealt with in the article. However, for a city that remains about 85% African American it might be worthwhile to more closely identify the key causes of this anomaly. One possible idea: Whites were able to seek employment opportunities in neighboring towns that at the time in question may not have been so readily available to the African-American citizens of Gary, due largely to the racist prejudices that existed in that period. As an Indiana resident, I'm not sure the evidence supports the statement regarding the 'region' not being afforded the same funding opportunities as the rest of the state. There are many highscale neighborhoods in towns that surround Gary within the same county. Although a highly political issue, it would be interesting to explore the causes of poverty in Gary and the causes of wealth in cities in close proximity. It is also worthwhile bearing in mind that there are many other pockets of poverty in Indiana, probably more in rural areas than urban. --Bennycat 23:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

This issue is not unique to Gary, and as such, the question that comes up is why the article for Gary to discuss that. Why not East St. Louis, or Detroit, or Benton Harbor, or Cleveland or Newark? --Mhking 18:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

You're absolutely right, this issue is in no way unique to Gary. What is rather unique about Gary is the extremely high percentage of African-Americans (around 85% of the population) living in a city of it's size (about 100,000). However, I do take your point about the other cities. In particular I think that the polarized demographics of St Joseph and Benton Harbor would also make an interesting study. I guess it's up to a much more qualified editor than me to decide on whether to expand the Gary, Indiana article out to include this issue.--Bennycat 21:29, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

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Smell

My edit has been reverted twice now as vandalism, so I thought I should bring up this issue on the talk page. One thing Gary is well known for is its smell. As a result of the steel industry, a sulfur smell has long been a part of Gary, although efforts have been made to improve it. I referenced an article from E: The Environmental Magazine which seems to have mysteriously disappeared, entitled Cities that smell: some urban centers use common scents which states that "Most people remember Gary because they drove through it on the interstate during a family vacation, holding their noses with the windows rolled up tight to keep out the rotten-egg smell" (Google Cache) Lemnar (talk) 19:14, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

As a frequent visitor to Gary, spending most of my time in relatively close proximity to the lakeshore and steel plant, I would say that on approximately 10% of my visits do I notice a weak to moderately-weak sulphur smell. I have very, very seldom noticed this smell whilst driving by or close to Gary on the interstate. It should also be remembered that there is more than one steel producing plant on the south shore, and it is entirely possible that those who have traveled through the area are remembering the smell of the combined output from the steel plants of Burns Harbor, East Chicago and Gary. Although the smell is undeniably there at times (dependent on the wind), to lay the blame solely at Gary's door in this article, citing the evidence you have chosen, is not really fair. Having some vague rememberance of driving through northwest Indiana at 70mph on the interstate, during a family vacation possibly from a previous decade, is not the same as visiting and getting to know Gary personally, including the quality of its air. I also think the quote used is very POV and rather inflammatory, to suggest that the only thing that Gary should be remembered for is its disgusting smell. However, for all that, it's great to see something new being discussed about Gary on this page! Bennycat (talk) 22:18, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Gary Indiana on the web

Gary has both its good points and bad. Unfortunately, most of the good points are from the past.

I was born and raised in Gary, and my education was in the Gary public schools. The quality of that education was such that I went on to get an undergraduate, and gradute, degree. I also worked in the steel mills for a few years after high school. I still have family in the area, so I do get back quite often. My 20 + years in the city give me a pretty good perspective of both the "then and now."

In an effort to counter all the negative publicity, without denying its basis in present-day reality, I have put up a web site which features Gary, Indiana. It has a lot of interesting history, of which I am certain most people are totally unaware. For example: Ronald Reagan was married in Lake County.

To gain an insider's perspective of Gary, Indiana, check out this web site

Dave's Den

D. Yaros 76.229.218.233 (talk) 08:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Miller

Like it or not, Miller is a part of Gary... so it would border, not Gary, but the rest of the City of Gary... Xenophon777 (talk) 19:42, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Miller was it's own city at one point, then was annexed by Gary. Miller is mostly white, unlike the rest of Gary. Miller lacks the crime and gangs that plague the rest of Gary. I've seen people walking down Lake Street at 9:30 at night, something you can't really do in Downtown Gary.

So like it or not, Miller is about as far away from Gary as you can get in Gary, and it deserves it's own article. Especially if the plans on de-annexation go through.