Talk:Monty Python's Flying Circus

Any chance we can promote all of those subpages to full-blown pages in their own right? Like, for example The Spanish Inquisition (Monty Python) or The Spanish Inquisition (Monty Python's Flying Circus)? -- Zoe

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I'm a little confused on the ordering of the episodes... Referring to my trusty The First 20 Years of Monty Python by Kim "Howard" Johnson, the first episodes in season 1 should be:

1. Sex and Violence (Recorded as Series 1, Show 2)
2. Whither Canada (Recorded as Series 1, Show 1)
3. How to Recognize Different Types of Trees... (Recorded as Series 1, Show 3)
4. Owl-stretching Time (Recorded as Series 1, Show 4)
5. Man's Crisis of Identity... (Recorded as Series 1, Show 5)
6. The Ant - an Introduction (Recorded as Series 1, Show 7)
7. ...

In the article, Series 1 looks like it follows the "Recorded As" numbering, up until The Ant, where it begins to diverge. Ultimately I suppose it's not important, but I just wanted to see where the sequencing came from. There's also the possibility that Johnson's book has some typos. -- Wapcaplet 21:35 27 May 2003 (UTC)

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I am in the process of a complete overhaul of this page and the related Monty Python page. Amongst other things this will cut down on the duplication between these two pages. I hope to have it done before Christmas, maybe even in the next couple of days (if I have time). In the meantime feel free to continue editing. I will incorporate any changes that are still applicable into my version by checking the page history before uploading. Any questions feel free to contact me. HappyDog 17:15, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

It would be more in the spirit of Wiki to make these changes to the articles gradually and allow others to take part in the process. Please consider doing this instead. -- Tarquin 17:20, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I'm not sure - I could post up what I've done so far, but there are a lot of empty headings (for which I'm working on the content). Would it be appropriate to have headings in the TOC, for which there is no content yet? If so, I will post what I have done so far. If not, then I'd rather finish the basic framework before posting it. Even if I wait, I am under no illusion that I will be posting a finished article :) HappyDog 17:34, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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OK - I've done a major rewrite of this page, consolidating the Monty Python article which is now very brief indeed. I have deliberately done it this way, as there was a fair bit of duplication between the pages, and no real sense as to what should be in what article. I think that ultimately we could have two articles, but only if we can make a clear distinction between Monty Python the group, and Monty Python's Flying Circus, the TV series. I am not convinced this distinction can be made in any meaningful sense, as they are inextricably linked. However, I propose that we discuss the matter on this page rather than keep rejigging the content. It may be that this new layout is the best, but that still leaves the question of whether the major article should be under MP or MPFC.

As ever, the article is not complete yet. The bibliography needs a lot of work, and there are a few empty sections. Other parts need tidying up too. I have removed the massive list of show titles, and instead provided an external link with more detailed information. HappyDog 14:13, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

My thoughts - Currently we have MP and MPFC consolidated into one, but the MP film articles separate. I don't like this inconsistency. If we went down the "one article" route then we would merge in the film articles too. I don't like this - the article would be very long (some of the film articles have filled out quite nicely) and unnecessarily so - there is a natural separation to utilise. Thus the "separate articles" route should be the one to go down. We can do this without too much duplication that troubled you earlier, HappyDog. The MP article becomes a kind of parent article for their whole timeline and devolves all responsiblility to the MPFC and film articles for the details. Sorry for joining this discussion late - I was watching the MP but not the MPFC articles. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 14:35, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Well, not had many responses! I'm not sure I agree entirely with your suggestion though. First of all I don't think there's anything wrong with the film (and other) references being links to separate pages. This seems to be the standard Wikipedia way of doing things, for example the Alfred Hitchcock article gives biographical information only, with links to separate articles for each of his films.

Yep, we're agreed that this is the way to go.

The second point about dividing this page into two articles is possibly correct, but I'm not sure it's as simple as you think. When I originally rewrote the page I tried to keep it as two separate articles, to reflect MP the group and MPFC the series. However the real problem is that up until at least 1975 (if not later) the two were synonymous, and so to divide them is nearly impossible, unless you just split the page into two halves (which seems a little non-sensical). After I made the decision to remove the very long episode guide, and replace it with an external link to a much more detailed and complete source, MPFC would have had very little content that wasn't duplicated from MP. I also felt that MPFC (being the full and original name) should be the page under which to locate the article, although this perhaps needs further discussion. The MP article I think is valid as it stands, clarifying that is a common abbreviation, however it could be made into a redirect instead. HappyDog 15:12, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Ok, first point is that this set of pages is much more "your baby" now than mine so I am happy to go along with what you decide as long as others are. Having said that, I think I understand your points and still wonder if two pages might be the way to go. Although synonmous prior to 1975, they are not synonmous now - one is the tv show - one is the group - obviously a lot of overlap. There doesn't have to be a lot of overlap. The MP article would devolve responsibility for the specifics of the TV show to MPFC (e.g. man behind desk, famous sketches, titles...) etc and the MP article would be a timeline. with "see MPFC for further detail, see Life of Brian for further detail etc". The only problem I see is that with complete devolution to the MPFC article, the MP article would not mention really famous stuff like Dead Parrot. This layout would avoid the situation we currently have where MPFC discusses recent developments like re-unions which would be more at home at MP. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 16:43, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I would have thought that the distinction between Monty Python, a group of actor/writers, and Monty Python's Flying Circus, a television programme, was rather elementary...

James F. (talk) 00:48, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)