Talk:Avengers (comics)

I don't really agree with some of the 16 Sep 03 16:48 changes. The fact that the Hulk wore clown make-up for part of (but not all of) the first issue seems like a trivial detail. More significantly, I don't think the Justice League was really the model for the Avengers; rather, the success of the Justice League was the inspiration for the Fantastic Four. The Avengers were simply one in a line of teams of previously-existing heroes (who trace their lineage back to the Justice Society of America). Lastly, I don't think Cap's guilt over Bucky's death was really a running theme in the series. It had a place in some of the Roy Thomas issues, but was not really a factor for the team as a whole - nor a theme for the book - for the most part.
-mhr 00:41, 27 Sep 2003 (UTC)

West Coast Avengers

Should the WCA get their own article, or at the very least, their own STB in this article? --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 20:14, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, they should get their own article (as should the various Justice League branches (especially Justice League International), FTM. If you're volunteering to do it, go ahead :) - SoM 22:12, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

If the Great Lakes Avengers have a page, surely the wacos deserve one. Steve block 20:48, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

• Okay, I've made a start here. Sadly I dropped the book about where this synopsis ends, so I can't add anything more to the party. Steve block 21:07, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Size

Sorry about that. When I submitted my changes, the bottom of the page got cut off. I dont know if the article is getting too big. --DrBat 14:11, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

Not a problem. However, do stop replacing the JPG with the PNG. We've been through this before. The PNG you're putting there for the "Siege" cover just looks painfully oversaturated. --khaosworks 14:16, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

He's been doing that a lot... - SoM 14:47, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

New Avengers isn't the Avengers

New avengers aren't the Avengers, so why is a cover thumb of it as a (false) representation of the avengers?

There is a New Avengers article, correctly, since they're different teams on different books, with different members.

Someone should really remove the New Avengers covers from this section, there's already a section for it, it's the New Avengers section.

No there is not a NA article (well, not for the comic). Correctly. The New Avengers comic features a team known as the Avengers. This article is on the team. Two plus two is four. - SoM 23:11, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

NA section: The_New_Avengers_(comic)

Avengers = Avengers

New Avengers = New Avengers

Different teams, different books, different fans even :)

Even the creators and the story underlines that the Avengers ended (disassembled), and were restarted, as another team, on a new book with new members, new base, new mission et cetera. Justice League Europe isn't Justice league America simply because it shares "Justice League" and a few members. If the justice league deserves the dignity, why don't the Avengers? Would the great Lake Avengers or West Coast be characterized an honest representation of the Avengers? No. Then why should the "New" Avengers be.

The only excuse would be a hedonistic pursuit of absolutely the last cover gloss to be on the article, problematic, since it's factually\historically wrong.

The team was disbanded in the wake of the Onslaught saga, yet nobody questions that the team that reformed after the Heroes Return was the Avengers. The composition of the team has changed so many times, starting from the Hulk leaving, then Captain America joining, then all the original members leaving with only Cap, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver to pick up where the others left off, yet the team was still the Avengers. "The old order changeth" is one of the team's catchphrases, and has been amply demonstrated throughout the team's history. All through this, the team was still the Avengers. The new team is still called the Avengers, not the New Avengers, in the context of the Marvel Universe, the "new" just being the title of the book. --khaosworks 03:26, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

The New Avengers are not the Avengers! They do need their own page! The current page is for the comic series. This title is now finished! Just as the Young Avengers (a completely new title) has it's own article, the New Avengers (another completely new title) deserve theirs!

When they start calling themselves the New Avengers, I'll agree. Until then, they're still the Avengers. The New Avengers is the title of the comic book, not the team. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 12:40, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Exactly, it's a comic book series featuring a team known as the Avengers. The comic book series should have its own page!

The New Avengers, a Marvel Comics comic book begun in 2004 focusing on the Avengers, a superhero team. The link brings us to the Avengers page -- so what's wrong with a page for this comic book that begun in 2004?

Because there isn't anything to write about the comic book that isn't already adequately covered here. And the New Avengers really only works in the context of the history of the book, which is what this article also covers. That's why it redirects. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 13:19, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

My point is that it shouldn't be adequately covered here! It an entirely different saubject/category/whatever you want to call it. Just as with the West Coast Avengers. It's a new title. The Avengers title is finished, so only information about things that happen during the run of this title should be included on this page, and then at the end, a link to the New Avengers page...

How is it completely different? Note that the West Coast Avengers were actually called the West Coast Avengers in their title. These are still the Avengers - the New Avengers is a continuation of that same organization's history. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 12:32, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Merge with NA

• Merge New Avengers into this page. - SoM 13:01, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
• Merge New Avengers into this page as per my reasons above. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 13:02, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
• Merge New Avengers into this page.--DrBat 21:55, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

• Don't Merge New Avengers is an entirely new version of the original The Avengers series. Sure, the events during The Avengers are the history of The New Avengers, but this new title should have its own page, for a more in-depth article!

Who's being harmed by the New Avengers page existing? Why do stubborn people have a problem with it? Taking your idea to the extremes, then everthing should be included on the main Avengers page - every single comic series - every character even. It just doesn't work! There's too much information, and it's so much neater with seperate pages for all of the categories!

• • Then I guess we should go and make entries for everytime the title's been restarted to issue 1. Did they reboot the series and completely undo the titles entire history? No, they did not. They just added "new" to the title and added some new characters. I think the New Avengers page should be reverted back to a redirect. The info there isn't that useful and is covered by the Avengers article.--Kross 16:43, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

• Don't Merge Not everyone is going to be happy with whatever decision is reached. The way I see it is that the The Avengers title is over, so information on the page for The Avengers should be contained there. The The New Avengers title is going to be continuing beyond what can be put into the The Avengers article without making it very long and awkward. As for the comment about the info there, it's clearly modelled exactly on the Young Avengers page, and though it's limited right now, it has space to grow - which is what Wikipedia is all about. It has more space to grow in its own page than in the The Avengers page. The New Avengers isn't The Avengers. Just as The West Coast Avengers isn't The Avengers (as for the difference in the team, a lot of people don't agree on that point, either, which is why The Wasp and Henry Pym have The Avengers in their affiliations, and Iron Man has The Avengers and The West Coast Avengers. Sure The Avengers and The New Avengers are about the same team, but the series' are different. This being my point. The New Avengers page is about the comic book started in 2004 (under a different title than The Avengers). It should have its own page for a more in-depth article. Avengers_fan 23:22, September 3, 2005

• Merge New Avengers into this page. Personally, I'm a little tired of people going around creating different articles for every iteration of the same character/magazine. Spider-Man does not need articles for Spectacular Spider-Man or Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, what is there to say about them that cannot be covered in the main article? Likewise, the New Avengers don't need a different page. It's the same team concept, working in the same circumstances. The only reason for it to have a separate page is to have detailed plot synopses for the new series - which, as the series progresses and more issues are published, turns the page into a messy text dump, especially because comics fans tend to be nitpicky about details (see Runaways (comics) or The Ultimates for examples). I prefer to have three or four paragraphs detailing what the series is about, as well as major changes to the overall direction of the title, than large synopses - which in the case of The Avengers, still works in the main article without the need to create a new one. --Pc13 23:52, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

• Don't Merge The information on the new page is limited at the moment, and as there is more information to add, what is there will be condensed and expanded. It's an entirely new comic, continuing the adventures of the team The Avengers. People who say that the current Avengers page is for the team are wrong! The page is clearly for the comic! The only thing I can think people may nitpick about is the title of the New Avengers page. If it was changed from New Avengers to The New Avengers, then no one can have a problem with it! It's clearly a page about a comic title, which (and I know a lot of you don't want to hear this) is not The Avengers. It's The NEW Avengers! Sorry, but people are just going to have to get used to this. Sooner or later, this comic title will be needing its own page -- so what's wrong with sooner?