Talk:Abbasid Caliphate

Umar

The Umayyads were not descended from Umar. I have corrected that claim.

DigiBullet 09:45, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Help

My last name is Abbasi-Khalaf. Am I a decendant of the Abbasid's? Xihix 06:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Possibly. Where are you from? Information service (talk) 06:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

the Sack of Baghdad: February 28 or February 10 ?

The Wikipage on Baghdad shows February 10, 1258, instead of February 28, as the date of the sack of Baghdad. Can anyone confirm this, please ? -- PFHLai 05:51, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC)

This site has all the dates:

http://www.deremilitari.org/RESOURCES/sources/baghdad.htm

Hard to figure out exact date since it apparently went on (including initial negations) for a month or more OneGuy 09:53, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the reference, OneGuy. I can't find any mention of Feb.28th. And I quote:

... the caliph and his three sons, Abu'1-Fadl Abdul-Rahman, Abu'l-Abbas Ahmad, and Abu'l-Managib Mubarak, came out on Sunday the 4th of Safar 656 [February 10, 1258]. With him were three thousand sayyids, imams, cadis, grandees and dignitaries of the city. ... The people disarmed themselves and came out in droves, and the Mongols killed them....

I suppose this means February 10, 1258 was the date Baghdad fell to the Mongols. I'll edit the article accordingly.

...At the end of the day on Wednesday the 14th of Safar 656 [February 20, 1258], the caliph, his eldest son, and five of his attendants were executed in the village of Waqaf...."

I'll add this date of the execution of the last reigning Abbasid caliphate in Baghdad (February 20, 1258) to the article.

Thanks, again. :-) -- PFHLai 18:31, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC)

Sometimes February 12th is mentioned. Information service (talk) 06:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

"Second Class Citizens"

The concept of the "citizen" didn't emerge until the French Revolution, therefore no one was a second class citizen because there was no such thing as a citizen. Someone should fix this, because I'm too busy to think of a better way to reword this, but if no one changes it by weekend, I'll fix it up. Canadian Paul 07:07, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Ancient Rome had a developed sense of citizenship. - Bryan is Bantman 02:15, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

It's arguable I guess, after over half a year of learning about things since I last posted the comment... anyhow, I think I fixed in such a way that it works for either view point - Canadian Paul 20:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Persians,

Would you ppl stop adding Persian crap to this page, as in "three Persians, Al-Kindi, Al-farabi..."

Would you please research before you add stuff, yes al farabi was persian, but al kindi and ibn sina (avicenna) were arabs.

  alkindi was arab but ibn sina was persian, alfarabi was either a persian or turk.  Nevertheless, the question of ethnic origin is quite pointless, since they these three belonged to the same cultural and intellectual realm and most if not all their works were written in arabic (the de facto language at that time)

BBC Podcast about Abbasid Caliphate

MP3. Jacoplane 20:46, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to move this to the main article page. If there are any objections, post them here and we'll discuss. Rob cowie 13:34, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Bold textAl-Mu'tasim's Last Remaining Son"Bold text

It says in the article that al-mu'tasim, the last abbasid caliph, had his last son and daughter sent to hulegu's harem as a slave and a concubine. Which is totally untrue. How could his last son be sent to Azerbaijan (hulegu's stronghold), then reappearing in Cairo to restore his dynasty?!! Al-Mustasim's son was somewhere in a desert town, I read, when Baghdad was sacked, and kept roaming the desert in fear of his life, until the mongols were defeated at Ayn Jalut, then he travelled to Cairo in Egypt, to meet Sultan Baibars Al-Banduqdari, and be restored as a figurehead caliph. May someone please edit the article concerning this matter. Everytime I edit it, my edit is scrubbed out.

It was not his son but his uncle who re-established the Caliphate. Al-Mustasim's several sons fled to different countries. The Syrian line spread itself and gained importance. Emirs Ruslan and Iskander belong to it. Information service (talk) 06:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Abu Muslim

Shouldn't there be a reference in here about Abu Muslim, who is usually credited with bringing the abassids to power?

Haroon Al-Rashid

Being among some of the greatest rulers of Abbasid and Islamic rule shouldnt a seperate category be made for his rule in the Caliphite?

Why is this...

Why is this "Caliphate" considered Shia? It imprisoned and persecuted the Shia Imams and it imprisoned and persecuted Shia in general. Armyrifle 10:39, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

It is not Shia, it is Sunni. Information service (talk) 07:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Persians/Spuler

I have had trouble finding in Spuler the quotation about the Persians given in the text and footnoted at footnote 4. I have a different edition of Spuler but have searched pretty extensively through it. Could there be an error here?86.136.74.2 12:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Encyclopaedia Iranica link

This link:

• Abbasid Caliphate entry in Encyclopaedia Iranica

Was added by a Columbia University IP along with many other links to the site. I have moved it hear in keeping with our external links guidelines so unconnected editors can evaluate its appropriateness. Many of the website's entries are short and may not contain much more than the articles they have been added to. However, this might be a good source even if editors do not consider it an appropriate external link. -- SiobhanHansa 01:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Iranica is produced by Columbia University and like Encyclopedia Britannica is a scholarly source. It should not be removed from the articles as they are pertinent sources of reference.--Zereshk 13:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Stop your nonesense war

Why do you (Iranian Wikipedians) keep adding the irrelevant texts to articles on Wikipedia?, that thing will -NOT- make Iran a greater country, i can see many articles that the name (Persia) is shoved in and you keep mentioning (Persia= Iran today don't forget)!, i call that a childish edits and will make people suspicious of articles related to Iran. can you tell me what's good for the article to add "It is well established that the Abbasid caliphs modeled their administration on that of the Sassanids.[4] One Abbasid caliph is even quoted as saying:

"The Persians ruled for a thousand years and did not need us Arabs even for a day. We have been ruling them for one or two centuries and cannot do without them for an hour."[5]"

it is completely racist and does not help -at least- the section of Abbasid Science, I hope you guys understand me--Zobiez 23:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

"I don't like it" is not a valid reason to remove relevant sourced information about who caliphs modeled their administration on, and their influences......I agree what he is saying .--Piroozi 03:58, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

is that what you understood! you look so clever, the section is about ABBASID SCIENCE not about the administration. now your racist admin Khoikhoi blocked me and accused me of being a sock puppet of User:Islami, i dont know what me and Islami have together we edit different articles we are different people we have different IP's, can i have any evidence that explain my block on the nick User:Tinglepal??, he wants to silence me but i will stand for the truth--Creativiti 09:08, 15 July 2007 (UTC) Meh

editprotected

A protection template should be applied to this page for the duration of its protection. Thanx, 68.39.174.238 18:02, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I've added a small template, top right. — Gareth Hughes 19:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Stop the manipulation

I removed the racist sentences mentioned in the article...since this has nothing to do with truth...it was never said...& I'm getting sick of all Persian shit put on ALL Arabic-related articles...Exactly all Arabic articles on wikipedia...its very annoying, they're making everything Arabic as Persian manipulating history, names & facts....Does any Arab manipulate anything on Iran-related articles...No....its only persians doing that...in the Iran article they even jump over certain parts of the history related to ruling of persia by Arabs, its so biased in the way they not only manipulate but also write things that serve their persian nationalism & if we would search & analyze about Iran as a whole the majority of it has Arabic origin & yet Arabs don't do it....So stop with this persian nationalistic propaganda..stop putting your shit everywhere!!!!!! Iraswe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.6.158.33 (talk) 00:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

The Abbasids came to power by pandering to the non-Arab converts and they moved their capital to Baghdad (a Persian name), which is only 20 km away from Cteisphon, I believe. I think it's fairly obvious the Abbasid Caliphate was highly persianized... The majority of the thinkers in Baghdad were of Persian ethnicity. Iran has a majority of Arab origin? Based on what? Genetic testing doesn't suggest that at all; Only certain cities (Qom, for example) were founded by Arabs. The Arabs in Southwestern Iran didn't even arrive into that region until relatively recently (a few hundred years... they have not been living there since Islamic conquest). Nor does the historical reality. As for "Arabic identity dominates Iran." Can you name a single contribution the Arabs have made to Islamic architecture beyond calligraphy? Did they come up with double skinned domes? Pointed arches? Minarets? The landscaping? Right. The original Arabs were living in tents. So let's not start with the nonsense that Iranians have "Arabic origin." It makes no sense genetically. It makes even less sense culturally. The Ummayads were Arab in essentially every way, but to lay a claim on all of the science, culture and knowledge that was generated during the Abbasid period is nonsense. The CAPITAL CITY of the Abbasid Caliphate was predominantly Persian. Baghdad did not become Arabized until the Ottoman Empire. Rhazes, Khwarizmi, Avicenna, Biruni, Tusi etc. were all Persians. As for the Iran-article.. That's irrelevent to this article, for one. Two, the Iran article does mention almost 10 paragraphs on the Arabs, the Turks, and the Mongols. I don't really understand where the "nationalist Persian propaganda is." Ignoring the Persian component of the Abbasids would be similar to ignoring the Greek component of Rome. The entire reason there WAS a golden age was because works of non-Arabs were translated into Arabic. Not because the Arabs themselves started something on their own. I think leaving out that little factoid would qualify as Pan-Arab nationalism, not Persian nationalism. -68.43.58.42 (talk) 07:58, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

HAHAHA wtf people, are you smoking something legal?

Take this dreadful excuse of an image out of here. The Abbassid Caliphate never ruled so much land at all and in fact they never had control of North Africa or Spain which was under a splinter Ummayad Corduba Caliphate. Meanwhile also teh date is wrong because after the 10th century the rise of the Byzantine Empire and the Fatimid Caliphate meant that the Abbassids governed little other than modern day Iraq. Tourskin 06:01, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeh , i already noticed and wrote on Image talk:Abbasids Dynasty 750 - 1258 (AD).PNG , i think too much of coffee is the reason :)  A M M A R  20:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

In their opening years they did have sovereigny over Morocco and Spain, so the map somewhat accurately represents the Abbasid empire at its greatest extent. They lost Spain early on to Abdul Rahman I, and then later lost Morocco to Idris I after a failed revolt of Fakkh in the late 8th century, but that doesn't mean they didn't appoint governors there prior to that. Also, they ruled more territory in the east than is shown by that map. -- Slacker 02:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

i found this map showing the greatest extent to te abassid caliphate that is different than the pic currently used, so i think the pic used is misleading that the abassids did rule parts in north africa http://www.metmuseum.org/TOAH/hd/abba/hg_d_abba_d1map.jpg Mighty toad (talk) 00:25, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Independent Emirates rising in Abbasid Caliphate

This map is not accurate, many of the names mentioned are not clear and if you look them up you will not find any entry in either Wikipedia or google; example: Tulumid, Buyjid and Alijid; who are they? Someone needs to clarify this, probably correct the spelling (if they exist) so that we can know who they are. --Maha Odeh (talk) 13:45, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Tulumid is a typo (should read Tulunid). Buyjid means the Buyids and Alijid means Alids. It's possible the original map was done in another language where "j"="y". -- Slacker (talk) 12:41, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Maybe we should find someone to correct this, does anyone have any idea how? --Maha Odeh (talk) 13:10, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

You could contact the person who apparently made the map: user:Arab League. -- Slacker (talk) 12:34, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Abbasid flag

Was the Abbasid flag really just a black field, or is that just a placeholder? 71.57.90.83 (talk) 04:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Black was indeed the official color of the Abbasids (except for a brief period during Al-Ma'mun's reign when they switche to green). They fought under a black banner. -- Slacker (talk) 01:57, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

750 years without the Abbasids.

February 10th 2008 is the sad 750th anniversary of the fall of Baghdad and the demise of the Abbasid Empire established in 750. On February 10th 1258 the hordes of Mongol prince Hulagu sacked Baghdad. One the World's greatest city was destroyed up to a million people massacred. The Abbasid Empire was the largest Empire of its time. It stretched from the Atlantic Ocean to China. During 508 years it was ruled by 38 Caliphs of the Abbasid dynasty, direct descendants of the Prophet Abraham through the male line. 10 days after the fall of Baghdad the last Caliph Al-Mustasim perished the death of a martyr. Several of his sons fled to different countries. The Syrian line spread itself and gained importance. Emirs Ruslan and Iskander belong to it. 750 years have passed but Iraq is still in the paws of barbarians...

Al-Bitar

Part of the Al-Bitar family of Syria is of Abbasi descent through the male line. Information service (talk) 07:47, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Anniversary

The section in question smacks of NPOV and is written with very poor grammar and mechanical construction. Should it be removed entirely, or reformatted so it actually means something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.165.16 (talk) 19:35, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree, and have removed it. This is the text:

February 10th 2008 is the 750th anniversary of the fall of Baghdad and the demise of the Abbasid Empire established in 750. On February 10th 1258 the hordes of Mongol prince Hulagu sacked Baghdad, effectively dissolving the Abbasid Empire, the second largest Empire of the time [behind the Mongol Empire that displaced it]. It stretched from the Atlantic Ocean to China. During 508 years it was ruled by 38 Caliphs of the Abbasid dynasty, descendants of the Prophet Abraham through the male line. 10 days after the fall of Baghdad the last Caliph Al-Mustasim was massacred. Several of his sons fled to different countries. Emirs Ruslan and Iskander belong to the Syrian line of the descendants of Al-Mustasim.

-- Earle Martin [^t/_c] 14:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)