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--[[User:The CyberShadow|The CyberShadow]] 18:20, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
--[[User:The CyberShadow|The CyberShadow]] 18:20, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

==New name==
Just so you know, I will now edit under the name [[user:WindFish|WindFish]] instead of my current one. My previous user page redirects to my new one. --[[User:RealWingus|<b><i><span style="font-variant: small-caps">realwingus</span></b></i>]] 07:05, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Revision as of 07:05, 7 September 2005

Note: as this page was getting fairly long, some of the earlier talk messages have been archived at Archive1 and Archive2. If anyone wishes to re-open an archived discussion, free to move it back here.

Resources

The following non-Wikipedia sites should come of value to anyone attempting to create a new article for a pokémon. Feel free to add any well-organized sites with information that will come in handy.

  • http://www.pokemondungeon.com/pokedex.htm - For pokémon from the Kanto and Hoenn series (Red, Blue, Yellow, Gold, Silver, Crystal, Stadium 1, Stadium 2). Includes pokédex entries, attacks, stats, and where to find it.
  • http://pokefor.greenchu.de/zukan/gba/pokemon - For pokémon up to the Orre series (Ruby, Sapphire, FireRed, LeafGreen, Emerald, Colleseum). Includes pokédex entries, attacks, stats, foreign language names (French, German and Japanese), and where to find it.
    Italy and Spain both use the same POKéMON names as the English version. Not sure about Portugal, didn't know they had a seperate version as well - but I'd think they also use the English names. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 1 July 2005 10:56 (UTC)
    Assuming http://www.devir.pt/pokemon/pok_mundo.htm is correct, Portugal also use the English POKéMON names. Removed note about POKéMON names in those languages. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 3 July 2005 11:35 (UTC)
  • http://www.serebii.net/potw/ - Although only about half of all Pokémon have thus far have been a 'Pokémon Of The Week' here, this site is handy because it tells you what episodes of the animé it has played a role in, and links to exhaustive descriptions of each episode's action (which can readily be summed up in a sentence or two).

Tips

If you need an image or the Japanese POKéMON name, use http://pokefor.greenchu.de/zukan/gba/pokemon/$1 (replacing $1 with the name of the POKéMON you're working on). Note that the images on that site are saved as 24-bit PNG - they should be converted to 8-bit PNG to work around Internet Explorer's transparency issues.

If you need help with the Japanese names, either getting them Romanized or getting them into your article, let me know. (Note that the site displays the Game Freak Romaji - this should be used for the infobox, but regular Romaji might be nice for the article itself.) The same applies for converting the images. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 21:20, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Would using those images be completely on the up-and-up? It'd be nice to have images for every article (especially if multiple images can be obtained, such as promotion image for the main article and game sprite for the video game information section), but I don't want to do anything illegal... Almafeta 22:23, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This has been discussed extensively on Template talk:Pokeimage - as long as we stick to the artwork on Pokémon Forever (linked above), we should be in the clear (fair use). We already have a number of these - they're marked with {{pokeimage}}.
Usually, we only use the regular artwork image, but I suppose it would be possible to include others, depending on the source.
Using sprites would probably be of rather doubtful legality, although I suppose they could be considered a screenshot, thus fair use (but since they're cropped, things might be different). If we want those, I already have all 386 R/S images on my harddrive - I just need to run them through a converter to get PNG, then upload them. I also have the smaller images available - those seen in the Evolution section on Pokefor. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 22:50, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Pidgeot, did you get permission from Meowth356 to use the images from there? IIRC, he's granted Bulbapedia permission, but I haven't heard a thing about Wikipedia getting it. It's fairly rare for him to grant permission after all those incidents of theft by Serebii years back. I doubt he'd deny the request in this instance, but you should still ask him before using them regardless. --Mukashi 08:06, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
Meowth is not the copyright holder of those images (it's official artwork drawn by Ken Sugimori), so I don't see a point in asking him that. Of course, if you believe otherwise, you're welcome to contact him. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 19:08, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Added 19:12, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC): If you were referring to the sprites, I never claimed to have gotten them from Pokefor. But since those are not created by Meowth (they may have been extracted, but that's not enough to grant copyright), I believe the same would apply. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e)
Indeed, he's not the copyright holder, but to use the images which he spent a great deal of his hard time and effort extracting from the game without his permission is a serious breach of webmasters ethics, not to mention simply impolite. --Mukashi 22:56, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
The artwork is not extracted from the game, only the sprites are - and the sprites are not currently an issue, since we're not using them. All I said was that IF we wanted to use them, I have them on my hard drive. I never said they were retrieved from Pokefor - they're not.
Like I said, you're welcome to contact Meowth on behalf of the Wiki if you are concerned about this - but I do not consider it an issue with the artwork files, which I believe were made through a simple batch process. (Don't get me wrong - I have absolutely nothing against Meowth. I just don't think this particular issue requires contacting him.) --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 23:27, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Gym Leader infobox

We could make up a common template for all gym leaders and the pokemon they use, such as we have a common template for all Pokémon... gimmie a few to make one up. Almafeta 20:31, 6 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and gave Brock (Pokémon) such a template. His template was going to be about the upper end of complexity, as he is one of the most frequently seen gym leaders, so no point in not starting with him first... Almafeta 20:51, 6 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not so sure this is a good idea.
On one hand, you have the Kanto gym leaders, who appear all over the place and recur in at least five different games, all of the anime series, and all of the manga series. These gym leaders will need massive infoboxes with all of their apperances and all of their different teams of Pokémon, when prose can handle things in a much more encyclopedic way.
On the other hand, you have the Johto and Hoenn leaders and the Collosseum area leaders, who appear only once in the games and anime and are generally minor recurring characters in the manga. For them, you can cover the necessary info with one paragraph about appearances and one paragraph about their Pokémon. For these characters, a pair of paragraphs of text does the job much better than a big honking infobox.
In one case, you're going to have a giant, obtrusive infobox (the one for Brock is gigantic), and in another case, you're going to have an infobox that duplicates almost all of the relevant info in a less-elegant format that lacks the context of proper prose. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 21:01, 6 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The Johto and Hoenn Gym Leaders are very imporant characters in Pokémon Adventures, so I don't know which manga series you're talking about. Ketsuban (is 1337) 22:18, 7 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
After thinking some more, I've come to the conclusion that you have no idea what you're talking about, given the fact that you say, "On one hand, you have the Kanto gym leaders, who appear all over the place and recur in at least five different games, all of the anime series, and all of the manga series." "All" of the anime series? There are two anime series, one a sequel to the other, and the Kanto Gym Leaders are not recurring characters in either of them, except for Brock and Misty. And I don't know what you mean by "all" of the manga series, as none of the Gym leaders have appeared in Magical Pokémon Journey (except for Brock and Misty in short gag strips about the anime, and one brief mention of Koga), and only Brock, Misty, Sabrina, Giovanni, and Rudy (who's not even from Kanto) have appeared in Electric Tale of Pikachu (Lt. Surge might have had a one-panel cameo, if I remember correctly). I'd really like to know where you're getting your information. Ketsuban (is 1337) 20:56, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Mostly from a largely faulty memory of the manga; my interest lies much more with the games and anime, frankly.
I just think the infobox as-is is a bit obtrusive and duplicates the body of the text rather than supplementing it. Why not try slimming it down, with names in different languages, signature (instead off all Pokemon levels and all, GameFAQs-style) Pokémon, and first appearances in games/anime/manga? It would make it handy for quick reference, and would eliminate the always-awkward "Brock is called (whatever) in Japanese, and (whatever) in French, and (whatever) in German..." That way you're getting a consistent-looking box across all the characters, and not needlessly duplicating info. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 23:33, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. I tried fiddling with it (and came up with this), but something about the design still bugs me. I do think that an infobox might be the way to go, though. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 00:19, 9 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I updated that infobox and adapted it for another Gym Leader at User:A Man In Black/Gymleaderboxmorty. It still needs to be slimmed down design-wise; it dwarfs the listing at List of Johto Gym Leaders#Morty. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 14:32, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
You probably wouldn't approve of similar infoboxes in languages, Pokémon articles, countries, et multiple cetera, then. Almafeta 00:59, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Well done Alfameta! I really like the Brock infobox. Keep it up! --Celestianpower talk 13:13, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Interlingua Poképedia

Heh. It's going to be interesting to see which article is the last to be expanded...

Anyhow, I just wanted to make a formal invitation: Any article that has been expanded may be translated to Interlingua and moved to ia:. I'd like to see more well-researched 'niche' articles of decent size there... ^_^; Almafeta 11:31, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Stat ranks

Video game base stats (percentile)¹
Hit points 73 (43%)
Attack 76 (56%)
Defence 75 (54%)
Speed 100 (65%)
Special attack 81 (63%)
Special defense 100 (71%)

Just a crazy idea that came to mind...

In my articles, I generally noted whenever a pokémon's stat was in the top 20%, the bottom 10%, what have you. What if we expanded this idea to all pokémon stats, for all articles? I created the faux infobox to the right (stats-only) to show what this would look like.

That way, you'd not only see their best/worst stats in absolute terms, you'd also see how well they rank compared to the rest of the field.

The only problem is you'd need (1) someone with a pokémon database, and (2) enough 'bot programming to update 350-odd articles... Almafeta 16:44, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This is absolutely Wikibooks material, not Wikipedia material. It'd be a great thing to have on b:Pokémon, but this isn't encyclopedic material. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 16:51, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It may not be encyclopedic as such, but it can still be relevant. If, as I'd prefer, we keep the base stats, this will make the seem more sensible to someone who hasn't read about base stats yet. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 19:23, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
You might also want to look at the Wikibooks link in the Pikachu and Scyther infoboxes. Part of the reason that I've been pushing to move certain things to Wikibooks is that a lot of them are already done, there. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 20:12, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't mean it can't be here as well. The info is mostly static, so there's little to no maintenance and updating that needs to be done. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 20:38, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if you quite got my point. Take a look at b:Pokémon in any event; Im fairly sure the info is duplicated there, saving you the trouble of setting up a database to do so. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 20:43, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It's no trouble. It'll only take me a minute or two to export and import the table, thanks to PhpMyAdmin. But if whoever makes the bot would prefer to scrape the data from b:, then that's up to him/her.
Personally, I think it'd be quicker to just make a PHP script that gives the Wiki-source needed for that table. That source code can then either be copied over manually, or a bot could get the existing article and find the part of the infobox to replace.
Heck, since I've got nothing better to do right now, I'll do it now, even if it won't be put to use. I'll probably need to get the table up regardless at some point, so might as well do it now. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 21:05, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Dur, dur, dur, I misunderstood what you were doing. You're adding percentile ranks to the statblocks. I still don't think this belongs on Wikipedia, but it's not already on Wikibooks by any means.
If you want to do it, I can't see how it could possibly go to waste. After all, Wikipedia and Wikibooks use the same Wikisyntax. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 21:31, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Use http://birdiesoft.dk/basestat.php?id=1, replacing 1 with the Kanto number of the POKéMON. For Deoxys, all four variants appear with id=386 (using the order Ruby/Sapphire/Colosseum, FireRed, LeafGreen, Emerald).--Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 22:12, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
If your browser doesn't show line breaks or if it offers to download this as a file (IE, possibly others), replace .php with .txt in the above URL - I've set it up so that this will trick the browser into thinking it's downloading a standard text file. However, the server takes longer to respond that way, so please try the other way first.--Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 22:29, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
If this becomes relevant, I can do number 1, since I made a IV Calculation system quite a while back, and imported that data into a database. I can easily transfer it to my site, and it should be trivial to make a script to calculate those percentiles and put it into a useful format. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 19:23, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Pidgeot's handy tool

Erf... I just noticed a small problem in your tool. For those pokémon who were in red/blue/yellow, it doesn't list their pre-stat-split Special stat, and it doesn't rank them.  :/ Almafeta 07:30, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Argh, right - knew I'd forgotten something - evidently, that was adding that data. I'll add that within the next hour or two. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 09:49, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Special stat is now shown for Mew and earlier POKéMON. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 10:27, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Just fixed a minor error in percentile calculations for Deoxys - when calculating these, I accidentally counted regular Deoxys as well, like I do for all the other POKéMON. The same error was present in the basebooks.php script, but is also fixed.

The impact is minor, but if anyone used the Deoxys percentiles before now, they should re-get them. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 18:00, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

A Wikibooks version

Pidgeot, could you take a look at b:Pokémon/Pikachu and make a version of the tool that spits out the stats in the format the Wikibook uses? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 14:51, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly. I'm a little busy right now, but I'll take a look at it later today. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 15:36, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That should easily be doable, but you'll have to tell me how you want it to look for Deoxys. Is <stat> (<percentile>) (<version>) good enough, or do you have a different preference?
In the meantime, I'll work on the remaining 385. ;) --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 16:17, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That seems like it's a good solution for Deoxys, and it could always be restructured by hand if necessary. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 16:26, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Completed - the URL is http://birdiesoft.dk/basebooks.php?id=1 (or http://birdiesoft.dk/basebooks.txt?id=1), substituting 1 with the Kanto number. Use the .php one if your browser correctly displays it as plain text, otherwise, use .txt. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 17:35, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Pokémon reference template?

Okay, so I've had a lot of crazy ideas lately. However, this one would be simple to implement.

References have been mostly excluded because they would be hard to update, which is especially problematic with pokédex sites -- many that go down become redirects to other sites. Fixing 380-odd articles if one site goes down is not anyone's idea of a good thing.

However, what if we added them to a template? Something like this: 

 ==References==
 <b>Books</b>
 *Book 1 citation
 *Book 2 citation
 *etc.
  
 <b>Websites</b>
 *Website 1 citation
 *Website 2 citation
 *etc.

In the cases where a pokémon has its own references (such as controversial species, or extremely popular species), you could easily code in (say) a "<b>Jynx-specific</b>" section right under the {{pokerefs}} template.

This way, new references could be added to a number of pages simultaneously, and old or depreciated references taken out with similar ease. We could have our cake and eat it too -- properly referenced pokémon species articles, without the difficulty of having to edit hundreds of articles to add a single line if we ever find a really handy book.

How does this strike people? Almafeta 10:36, 14 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I like it. FAs need citations and this seems the most economical way of doing it. --Celestianpower hab 10:55, 14 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
We can now add {{pokerefs}} to any article. Feel free to add any good books or stellar websites to the template, too. Almafeta 08:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Do we know how to properly reference games? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 19:33, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The MLA's never done video game citations. Besides, most information that we get from games is reproduced in a book somewhere. Almafeta 04:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I'll bet the MLA has a generic miscellaneous source citation format. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 04:52, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

New infobox redux

Jynx
Wikipe-tan
Wikipe-tan
Wikipe-tan says, "You can't use fair-use images outside of articlespace!"
National Pokédex
Scyther - Jynx (#124) - Electabuzz
Johto Pokédex
Smoochum - Jynx (#153) - Elekid
Hoenn Pokédex
Scyther - Jynx (#282) - Electabuzz
Japanese nameルージュラ - Rougela
Evolves fromSmoochum
(only in Pokémon Gold and Silver and later)
Evolves intoNone
GenerationFirst
SpeciesHumanshape Pokémon
TypeIce / Psychic
Height4'7" (1.4 m)
Weight89.5 pounds (40.6 kg)
AbilityOblivious

We haven't had a good argument in a couple of days, so I figure we're due.
It's coming time to start going back and polishing the articles that have been destubbified, and, as part of that, we we should probably shift to a proper template infobox instead of an inconsistant and difficult-to-change table with a half-dozen variations across hundreds of different pages.
Right now, we have Template:pokeinfobox, the template User:Celestianpower and I made.
It has a place for all three Pokédex numbers, all the biographical info, as well as a handy link that has all of the mechanical stat info for the games.
Currently, this template is on:

So. Does anyone have any objections to using this template with all rewrites? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 00:15, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think you know my opinion by now. I'm opposed to any removal of encyclopedic information or unnecessary merging of articles, as those things were what created PAC in the first place. But we can't stop you, and you'd simply revert any change we made. Almafeta 08:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, assume good faith here. I brought up the template to generate discussion, to finally resolve this. Nobody's threatening a revert war here, and I have no intention to engage anyone in a revert war.
Frankly, I've been impressed how willing people have been to contribute despite disagreeing over procedural points. I know people were initially (and may still be) opposed to merging the Gym Leader articles, but that doesn't mean people haven't contributed to List of Johto Gym Leaders. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 19:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I'd pretty much say the same. But if base stats (with or without percentiles) and gender distribution were added back in, then I'd quite like this one - although I'd probably move a couple of things from the parameters to the template before it's put into all the articles.
I also think we should consider making the Japanese Name something like: ハッサム (Hassam/Hassamu) - that is, kana (GF Romaji/Standard Romaji).--Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 10:43, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The only problem I have with the stats is they make it really long and thin. Personally, I want to put the gender distribution back in. A lay reader'd have no problem i n understanding that. --Celestianpower hab 11:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, you can add all of the various Japanese names to this template, if you want. Whatever you want to have in the "Japanese Name" box, just plug into the japanese parameter. I didn't have it in there because a previous version of the box didn't have enough room for more than one version of the Japanese name, but since it's been changed, go for it.
I'm not a big fan of the gender distribution, myself, but it's not a big deal.
The stats do bloat the infobox, in addition to being unencyclopedic. I maintain that raw stats aren't encyclopedic material, and that the predecessor Wikiproject felt similarly. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 19:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I, on the other hand, believe they *are* encyclopedic. Though they're not directly visible to most people, you can draw a direct link from them and to several other things, such as typical trading card stats and the power displayed by them in the animé. Because they constitute such a big part of them and their personality, they are worthy of inclusion, and it's not enough to give an approximation in the article text, IMO. That said, I won't mind if the stats are moved into the main article, as long as they are kept accurate. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 20:23, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The stats are one click away, for those with the background to understand them. For everyone else, they contribute little comprehensible information and are generally unencyclopedic. Wikipedia isn't GameFAQs, nor should it aspire to be.
That I've said before, though. As for compromises, how would you feel about making it clearer that the specific stats are on the Wikibook, in the Wikibook see also field of the infobox? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 02:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The WP:NOT section you're referring to does not list any category that base stats fall into, IMO. Unless you can argue otherwise, that point is moot.
That said, I am more willing to accept the removal of them if it is properly indicated that they are available at the Wikibooks link. Though I still prefer keeping them in the article. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 11:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
No sense sitting here and arguing procedure if there's a workable compromise sitting in front of us, then.
How do you suggest that that be indicated? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 21:58, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
See, that's the problem - I have no idea how that would be done. That's one of the reasons I'd prefer they just stay in the infobox - they play too big a role to remove all references to them, and I don't see a way to reach that golden middle in an elegant fashion. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 01:56, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
How about replacing "See Also" with "Video Game Info"? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 02:20, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Better, but no. I'm not happy unless it's 100% clear that the base stats can be found at b: - "Video Game Info" is far too broad a term to automatically have that implication. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 10:41, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
How about "Game Statistics," then? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 21:44, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Better. (As a reminder: I'm not at all happy about removing the stats, but if it *must* be done, that wording would be preferred. I'm still not convinced it should be done, and it's highly doubtful anyone will be able to convince me otherwise.) --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 23:00, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I'm well aware that the template could be used that way. But we should use a standard format across all the infoboxes, and to do that, the parameters should not contain anything that is identical across all instances of the template. To give an example, there should be two parameters for height, one to specify the metric height and one to specify the imperial height. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 20:23, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Ideally, yeah, splitting the parameters that way would be great. Unfortunately, it makes things a lot more complicated in situations where you don't have the metric measurements available. The national, johto, hoenn, evolution parameters, and measurement parameters are more complicated than is strictly ideal to allow for blank sections or missing info without generating any problems.
All of those things are available at Wikibooks, so there should never be any missing info. The only exception would be the {{{johto}}}-stuff, as not all POKéMON have Johto numbers. That, however, is easily fixed by either using a seperate template for RS POKéMON, or extracting all of that into the parameters. The former is likely preferable. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 11:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Hm. Between Pokéfor and the Wikibook, I haven't had any trouble getting Johto numbers for the third-gen Pokémon. That said, I'm fiddling with a hacky, more-flexible infobox for Pokémon that need special attention for the Pokédex line. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 22:59, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
All that said, if you can think of a way to simplify it, go for it. It's just that I'm stumped, and I assume Celestianpower is as well (else he would have fixed it already). - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 02:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind. I redesigned it some. I haven't added a gender line, yet (I'm fiddling with some drafts)...but why do we have a Pokémon Color line still? Does anyone want to make a case for keeping it? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 06:47, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The color is not always what first pops into mind. For example, Ditto is pink to me, but it's classfied as purple. Plus, we already have a List of Pokémon by color, which it nicely complements. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 11:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I'm curious what purpose it serves. I can't remember any time the classification by color is ever actually used. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 21:09, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It's used in the POKéDEX for searching. It was introduced with POKéMON Gold/Silver, IIRC. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 21:13, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Really? I played the hell out of Silver and I don't remember that. Huh. Well, you learn something new every day. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 21:24, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, my mistake. It was introduced in Ruby/Sapphire. I was probably thinking of searching in general, which *did* appear in Gold/Silver. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 21:31, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Oh. That would explain why I didn't remember it...I didn't play Sapphire quite as much. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 21:37, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Magnemite.jpg

Can someone crop the whitespace out of this and reupload it? I'm getting squished images when I try to do it. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 04:52, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind. I found a new image. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 08:04, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

We need to clean up the main page

the main page is terribly out of date seeing as all of the articles have been assigned but people are still coming for Pokemon articles! What should it say now? --Celestianpower hab 17:57, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"The project has currently assigned ALL articles, thanks for your help. Soon, a clean-up operation will begin, in the mean time everyone is welcome to contribute to any articles."
How about that? Deskana 21:14, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Charizard article

I am considering adding this statement to the Charizard article:

"Charizard's Fire/Flying type combo is mostly superior to pure Fire-types. While the Flying-type adds a weakness against Electric-type and a double weakness against Rock-type attacks, those weaknesses are largely outweighed by the resistances. The Fire/Flying-type combo has a double resistance against Grass-type and Bug-type attacks, an additional resistance against Fighting-type Attacks, and an immunity from Ground-type attacks, which Fire-type Pokémon are normally weak against."

I do not want to get into an NPOV war over this. However, I feel that this is not a POV statement.

Any thoughts on whether it should be included? Andros 1337 20:48, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Include it, yes. it's not nearly as bad as most of the rubbish we've been editting out like "A good moveset for this Pokemon is...". --Celestianpower hab 21:10, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I say yes, it's entirely grounded in fact. You might want to add that Charizard became a Fire/Flying type starting in Pokémon Yellow, as well. Almafeta 21:12, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, Charizard was always a Fire/Flying type, only that it wasn't able to learn Flying-type attacks until Pokémon Yellow. Andros 1337 21:21, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

How about NPOV-ing it?

Charizard's Fire/Flying type combo gives it a range of advantages over typical Fire types, as well as some new weaknesses. Adding the flying type adds a new weakness to Electric attacks, while exacerbating its weakness to Rock attacks and negating its resistance to Ice attacks. The Flying type does offer a complete immunity to Ground attacks, while adding resistance to Fighting attacks and increasing resistance against Bug and Grass attacks.

There's also a more direct, less technical slant:

Charizard's Flying type offers a major advantage: immunity to the Ground attacks that are typically the bane of Fire Pokémon. This doesn't come without a drawback, however; it adds a weakness to Electric attacks.

I don't care about Bug attacks and I actually care about Pokémon, and Grass and Rock attacks are relatively less common. Plus, it neatly summarizes the actual dilemma; I don't think anyone debating between Charizard and, say, Arcanine is really thinking, "Oh no! Choosing Arcanine will make my Pokémon more vulnerable to Giga Drain and...uh...Fury Cutter!"

That said, Charizard totally sucks in 386 play, though, because you see Thunderbolt (or rarely Thunder Punch, with Emerald) all over the place. When it's not Thunderbolt, it's a Suicune or Gyarados or Swampert or Starmie with Surf. Bleaugh. Make sure you mention Belly-Drum-izard, though. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 22:46, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I will not allow your POV-based lies. BTW Electric Pokémon can get KOed with an Earthquake attack. This can become the nuclear power dispute of the next generation. Andros 1337 00:35, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The italics are what I was suggesting adding to the article. The rest is just me kibitzing about strategy.
As for KOing electric types, a TON of things can learn Thunderbolt, not all of them Electric-types. Plus, most of the Electric-types you'll see (exception: Magneton) are faster than Charizard.
Or are you kidding? I can't tell. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 00:48, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I think people need to lighten up on A Man In Black a little bit. He's trying to contribute, and regardless of whether he's being successful at it (which I think he is), he's trying in good faith... I think comments like "Sorry, I will not allow your POV-based lies" are a bit out of order. -- Deskana 08:48, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the vote of support. And I am actually making edits in article-space while debating endlessly about policy. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 08:54, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Pokemon cleanup

We have a category for our Poke-cleanup tag now, at . I went around and tagged a ton of articles that need attention, so feel free to go and clean them up. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 08:42, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

A Modest Proposal

Since I'm a sucker for being yelled at by everyone for being overly mergist and exclusionist, I proposed a structure for the Pokémon articles over at Wikipedia talk:Pokémon Collaborative Project. Since this intended to be a goal for WP:PCP and will involve a lot of merges and rewrites, I wanted to get everyone on board to either make suggestions and correct oversights and implement it, or just yell at me to stop telling everyone what to do and just go rewrite List of Pokémon items.

If we implemented this plan (or a much less mergist plan like it), we could easily point to it when someone tries to VFD something (hey, we've got these lists and such-and-such other fandom has similar things), have a plan in place for adding new articles/info, and simplify cleanup/rewrite efforts and vandalism patrol. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 08:40, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Image Issues

For anyone with a nose for finding good images for articles, some articles' images need replacing. Some stuff I've noticed (although I'm sure there are more):

Well... I know there's an image of Gary Oak in a lab coat somewhere... I'm pretty sure it has a picture of his Blastoise in it. It's in Wikipedia somewhere... though god knows where. I can't find it. It's kind of annoying me... Deskana 10:48, 23 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Add any images in need of replacing or articles in need of images, and remove any you take care of. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 01:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Celestianpower's RFA

I have just appeared on RFA and I wondered if any of you would please vote/leave your comment. Thank you. Here's a link! —Celestianpower háblame 20:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC) 13:41, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Help revert some edits

I don't think this guys edits can be considered vandalism (he is making some good ones), but some are down right dodgy... it's taking me a while to revert dodgy ones, can someone help? He's deleting sections of articles (that he no doubt feels are irrelevant)... take a look. [Contributions of 24.57.121.167] -- Deskana 09:58, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought, it doesn't matter. I seem to have reverted all the dodgy ones... sorry, I think I probably only saw the bad edits and thought he was a vandal. Deskana 10:02, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I was gonna say. Some of the edits have some issues (not sure why he/she is delinking Pokémon articles, or restoring the verbatim Pokédex entries), but he/she looks like an honest contributor. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 10:11, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Contributions of 24.86.124.111
Edits of this person need reverting... they seem to just be removing random sentences from pokemon articles.

Percentages

I finished an article, could someone just adjust the percentage please?

ViperSnake151

Done. Which brings me to my next point...

Article standstill

We currently have the problem that we're waiting for people to finish the last few articles. Several seem not to have edited anything recently, so we can't do much.

I propose we un-assign all articles that have not been edited by the assignee for a week (excluding articles that haven't been assigned for a week, obviously!). People can get them re-assigned if they wish, but they have to show some results, or we'll never get the articles done. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 20:04, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

VS151: Another update is in need, but now that there are no more un-assigned Pokemon (yay for me! I'm doing something!), I'm going to contribute to the Cyndaquil family.

The page is "Jynx"ed

Hehehe.... at the bottom of the page it has the categories Ice Pokémon and Psychic Pokémon. Reminds me of Jynx. Hehehehe.... Deskana 23:38, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

(Yes, I realise the Jynx infobox is above... but it makes me laugh anyway!) Deskana 23:44, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Raikou

Why is Raikou at Raikou (Pokémon) if Raikou just redirects to Raikou (Pokémon)? This is not consistent with other Pokémon articles, unless there is a disambiguation page or more popular usage of the word at the page without the (Pokémon) suffix. (eg. Electrode) Deskana 21:46, 28 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I went back in the history of Raikou and found this. It was changed to a disambiguation page on that edit, and when that was undone in this edit, it was merely done by making it a redirect. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 22:11, 28 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

My Pokedex

Hi guys,

I'm a coder. Once a long time ago, when I was learning how to code, I wrote a Pokedex program.

From a small project, it got huge, till it contained most information possible to extract from the RBY/GSC games. Sadly, it never got too much attention on the WWW.

I haven't touched the project in quite some time.

Here's a link: http://www.geocities.com/pv_wer/progs/masterdex.html


I also started (but abandoned) a Pokedex for the Advance games.

Screenshot: http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot1me.png

Download: http://rapidshare.de/files/4503605/MasterdexAdvance.zip.html

If you have any questions, please e-mail me. I'm afraid I won't be able to watch this page closely.

thecybershadow gmail com

--The CyberShadow 18:20, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

New name

Just so you know, I will now edit under the name WindFish instead of my current one. My previous user page redirects to my new one. --realwingus 07:05, 7 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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